Tyrande is a terrible support at traditionally supporting. The Elune buffs are some of the weakest upgrades in the game, and they upgrade the weakest skill in the game. Buffing Elune is not a good idea, no.
Tyrande is good for giving vision, stunning people who have already been hit by CC, and increasing your team's damage output on a specific target. I suspect she only has the heal at all because people would complain about a "support" that had no defensive skills, but she doesn't really work well as any specific role.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
well i'm on tilt. so many teams that all in awful fights and throw late in games. lost 4 matches in a row as the only person with less than 5 deaths in any of them. multiple games with people over 10. what are you even doing.
I always forget how fun Nazeebo is until he pops up in the f2p rotation. I think I might have to buy him.
I was playing him yesterday and I wasn't really able to make good use of Ravenous, though. Mainly because my team wasn't frontlining well and as a result, wasn't protecting me. We had an engagement at 20 on Garden of Terror, on the bottom right corner of the map (pretty much right near the bottom right siege giants). I stayed in the bush, popped Ravenous, started going to town... and then the enemy Raynor literally walked up and Q'd me out of it. Despite having decent frontline Heroes, no one on my team stopped him from doing so. Was frustrating to say the least, cause this happened several times throughout the match.
I always forget how fun Nazeebo is until he pops up in the f2p rotation. I think I might have to buy him.
I was playing him yesterday and I wasn't really able to make good use of Ravenous, though. Mainly because my team wasn't frontlining well and as a result, wasn't protecting me. We had an engagement at 20 on Garden of Terror, on the bottom right corner of the map (pretty much right near the bottom right siege giants). I stayed in the bush, popped Ravenous, started going to town... and then the enemy Raynor literally walked up and Q'd me out of it. Despite having decent frontline Heroes, no one on my team stopped him from doing so. Was frustrating to say the least, cause this happened several times throughout the match.
I forget if Raynor's Q knocks back multiple targets but you can always try to zombie wall yourself first so the wall eats many interrupts.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
Raynor is still pretty easy. Easier now, in fact, cause there's no futzing about with cooldown lowering stuff. His talents are good enough and he's basically a group buff then AA machine, with the knockback for extra damage. I don't think there's too many wrong talents to choose on him.
Not a big fan of Nazeebo personally, but he's ok. I did have fun with playing Thrall with one though as at least twice he managed to get the enemy Malfurion and me both inside the zombie ring.
Which was basically like declaring a no-holds-barred grudge match with a zombie audience. Two heroes enter, Malfurion doesn't leave.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
Raynor is still pretty easy. Easier now, in fact, cause there's no futzing about with cooldown lowering stuff. His talents are good enough and he's basically a group buff then AA machine, with the knockback for extra damage. I don't think there's too many wrong talents to choose on him.
What? Raynor sucks for autos now, at least compared to how he used to be. Between the nerf to his damage and losing both the damage buff and the art of war from inspire, he practically tickles.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
Raynor is still pretty easy. Easier now, in fact, cause there's no futzing about with cooldown lowering stuff. His talents are good enough and he's basically a group buff then AA machine, with the knockback for extra damage. I don't think there's too many wrong talents to choose on him.
What? Raynor sucks for autos now, at least compared to how he used to be. Between the nerf to his damage and losing both the damage buff and the art of war from inspire, he practically tickles.
I've had no issues so far with his damage but that's not the point I was making anyway. He's got nothing else. You buff, you AA and occasional drop his Q. It's very easy.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
Raynor is still pretty easy. Easier now, in fact, cause there's no futzing about with cooldown lowering stuff. His talents are good enough and he's basically a group buff then AA machine, with the knockback for extra damage. I don't think there's too many wrong talents to choose on him.
What? Raynor sucks for autos now, at least compared to how he used to be. Between the nerf to his damage and losing both the damage buff and the art of war from inspire, he practically tickles.
I've had no issues so far with his damage but that's not the point I was making anyway. He's got nothing else. You buff, you AA and occasional drop his Q. It's very easy.
Oh yeah, he's simple as hell to play, it's just hard for him to actually do anything. He's just kinda there most of the time. I wouldn't really recommend him to anyone at this point, let alone someone unfamiliar with him.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I want them to shift the 'your talent is now the old talent' on Raynor down to level 7 so that you can still have the 'your ult is always up' effect right when you get it (since both his ults are still kinda pants as far as ults go). At least then I can feel somewhat justified going Specialist Raynor who spams his Super Bribe and Hyperions forts on CD.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally. Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally. Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
why, why did nobody tell me about this until now?
You can do the same thing with Zeratul's Void Prison, Sonya's Arreat Crater, and Hammer's Barricade as well. I think there's a small cooldown before you're able to cancel VP though.
I want them to shift the 'your talent is now the old talent' on Raynor down to level 7 so that you can still have the 'your ult is always up' effect right when you get it (since both his ults are still kinda pants as far as ults go). At least then I can feel somewhat justified going Specialist Raynor who spams his Super Bribe and Hyperions forts on CD.
Yeah, I'm super confused as to why they gave him an AA passive in the same patch they nerfed his AA builds. He could actually do things with the cooldown passive, now he's just shitty hammer.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally. Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
why, why did nobody tell me about this until now?
You can do the same thing with Zeratul's Void Prison, Sonya's Arreat Crater, and Hammer's Barricade as well. I think there's a small cooldown before you're able to cancel VP though.
you can also leave a garden terror by pressing R...
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally. Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
why, why did nobody tell me about this until now?
I only found out about this reading a guide on Nazeebo and the guide was like "W for unsummon. REMEMBER!" like 5 times.
You can do the same thing with Zeratul's Void Prison, Sonya's Arreat Crater, and Hammer's Barricade as well. I think there's a small cooldown before you're able to cancel VP though.
OMG WHAT?
They really need to put that shit in the tooltips.
Just got in to the closed beta, farted around in the tutorial and practice a bit before trying two co-op rounds. Won them both but not super cleanly. Was playing as Tyrande, tried to go heavy on the support (Elune buffs). That a good idea? Very new to the MOBA genre. I'm RobZissou#1325 if anyone wants to play with me (read: be very patient) later tonight.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally. Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
why, why did nobody tell me about this until now?
You can do the same thing with Zeratul's Void Prison, Sonya's Arreat Crater, and Hammer's Barricade as well. I think there's a small cooldown before you're able to cancel VP though.
you can also leave a garden terror by pressing R...
What does this do? I did not know this either.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
It suicides the terror. It shows up on your hotbar when you're in him as a red circle with a slash through it.
Can you cancel etcs dance? For those occasions when you really whiff...
Oh, yeah, you absolutely can cancel ETC's dance as well. Forgot that one.
Can also cancel Nazeebo's Ravenous, as well.
I... think Diablo's Lightning Breath too? Been a while since I played him.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I just got an invite to the beta last night and installed today. I'm terrified to even fire it up given what little experience I have with MOBAs has all been terrible.
Is this the usual Blizzard hand-holding, or is it the usual MOBA "don't even bother unless you already have 1000 hours of experience" bullshit?
I just got an invite to the beta last night and installed today. I'm terrified to even fire it up given what little experience I have with MOBAs has all been terrible.
Is this the usual Blizzard hand-holding, or is it the usual MOBA "don't even bother unless you already have 1000 hours of experience" bullshit?
It's pretty in the middle. The talent system is the layer of complexity where you can have 'builds' and whatnot, and it's way, way easier to get a hold of than the item shops of other mobas, and for the most part there isn't wacky interactions you need to learn like there is in DotA. Not really sure what counts as Blizzard hand-holding, but I didn't really get that kind of vibe (other than the talent gating which is just an inconvenience more than anything).
I just got an invite to the beta last night and installed today. I'm terrified to even fire it up given what little experience I have with MOBAs has all been terrible.
Is this the usual Blizzard hand-holding, or is it the usual MOBA "don't even bother unless you already have 1000 hours of experience" bullshit?
It's totally got Blizzard hand-holding at the start if you do the tutorials and there's cooperative where you can learn the ropes against the AI and generally the game is very clear and straightforward about the way stuff works and what you need to do.
+1
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I just got an invite to the beta last night and installed today. I'm terrified to even fire it up given what little experience I have with MOBAs has all been terrible.
Is this the usual Blizzard hand-holding, or is it the usual MOBA "don't even bother unless you already have 1000 hours of experience" bullshit?
It's totally got Blizzard hand-holding at the start if you do the tutorials and there's cooperative where you can learn the ropes against the AI and generally the game is very clear and straightforward about the way stuff works and what you need to do.
I just got an invite to the beta last night and installed today. I'm terrified to even fire it up given what little experience I have with MOBAs has all been terrible.
Is this the usual Blizzard hand-holding, or is it the usual MOBA "don't even bother unless you already have 1000 hours of experience" bullshit?
It's totally got Blizzard hand-holding at the start if you do the tutorials and there's cooperative where you can learn the ropes against the AI and generally the game is very clear and straightforward about the way stuff works and what you need to do.
The game is unclear on some points, unfortunately. The main points it is unclear on are the ways that HotS differs from other MOBAs, which is more unfortunate.
To list them point by point:
EXP and levels are teamwide. You can only get EXP from the same event once, so 1 or 5 people in a lane is the same amount of EXP. This is why it's important to have people in every lane in the early game if there isn't a pressing reason not to do so.
Any enemy AI (towers, minions, capped mercs) will never target heroes if there are other targets. This includes summoned units.
Backing using B gives you eight seconds of instantaneous fountain regen, so if you're going to the fountain, even in your own base, use it.
Regen globes (+HP and mana over time) always come from the enemy in the wave dressed up as a wizard. Play protip: Bait the enemy to fire spells at you by walking towards the globe and juking, or punish enemies for trying to get their regen globe; it only takes about two autoattacks to deal more damage than the globes heal up.
Stealth is way different than other MOBAs. You can always "see" cloaked units as a blur and target them with AoE; if they take damage, they'll get revealed. On the other hand, there's no way to permanently detect enemies in cloak. I think Tassadar's complete invisibility+invincibility is the only thing the game actually calls "stealth," while everything else is "cloak," but people will call it stealth.
Additionally, buildings can't see cloaked units and will not target them. Backing right behind your wall against competent Nova players is always risky.
Forts slow you and your attacks by (I believe) 50% if they hit you. Tower DPS is still on the low end if you happen to be durable.
A bunch of skills arbitrarily continue to give vision of the target, even without the giant eye icon that shows you're being revealed. Most notably for this week, Nazeebo's corpse spiders have some kind of superpoison that reveals the target for a couple of seconds as well, along with having very small amounts of vision.
The game is unclear on some points, unfortunately. The main points it is unclear on are the ways that HotS differs from other MOBAs, which is more unfortunate.
To list them point by point:
EXP and levels are teamwide. You can only get EXP from the same event once, so 1 or 5 people in a lane is the same amount of EXP. This is why it's important to have people in every lane in the early game if there isn't a pressing reason not to do so.
Any enemy AI (towers, minions, capped mercs) will never target heroes if there are other targets. This includes summoned units.
Covered in the tutorial. Along with most of the basic mechanics.
Backing using B gives you eight seconds of instantaneous fountain regen, so if you're going to the fountain, even in your own base, use it.
It's on the tooltip.
Regen globes (+HP and mana over time) always come from the enemy in the wave dressed up as a wizard.
Not directly covered but Tutorial 1 tells you about regen globes and Tutorial 2 puts a giant marker over every regen globe that drops so you figure this out very quickly.
Stealth is way different than other MOBAs. You can always "see" cloaked units as a blur and target them with AoE; if they take damage, they'll get revealed. On the other hand, there's no way to permanently detect enemies in cloak. I think Tassadar's complete invisibility+invincibility is the only thing the game actually calls "stealth," while everything else is "cloak," but people will call it stealth.
Additionally, buildings can't see cloaked units and will not target them. Backing right behind your wall against competent Nova players is always risky.
Huh. I found Stealth to work exactly how I expected it to work given other games I've played. Can't target directly but can AoE, a shimmer if you look closely.
Forts slow you and your attacks by (I believe) 50% if they hit you. Tower DPS is still on the low end if you happen to be durable.
This is one thing that should be added to the tutorials.
My point is that almost everything I brought up is kind of mentioned, but not explicitly; it can lead to the wrong assumptions if you assume it works like a typical MOBA.
I don't recall if teamwide EXP is covered in the tutorial, but minion aggro certainly isn't (it's not really covered in any MOBA, granted). Minion aggro in Heroes works significantly differently than in League or DotA, especially with regards to firing on summoned units in towerdives.
Regen globes coming from the wizard camps is something I didn't notice until I read about it, and my friends didn't notice until I mentioned it to them. They're all above level 30 and not terrible; it's just not something you explicitly think about when you just begin to assume the globes are roughly once per wave.
Stealth works exactly how you'd think from a Starcraft background. From any other MOBA? Nothing about it works how you'd think, especially the fact that towers don't have true sight (stealthovision).
Backing giving regen: On the tooltip, yes. The tutorial just says to use B to go back, and from a League perspective, you wouldn't expect it to give a burst of regen, nor would you necessarily read the tooltip for a skill that seems obvious. It wasn't that well known, given the exploit of "back from inside the fountain to speed up heals" was patched near instantly in (I think) the Jaina patch despite the fact it was theoretically something you could do since Heroes was launched.
Yes, if you come in as an absolutely clean slate, you won't necessarily be told anything incorrectly, but the information given is incomplete and the assumptions you'd draw from typical MOBA experience are incorrect. There's no harm in a more comprehensive tutorial that mentions these sorts of things.
The game is unclear on some points, unfortunately. The main points it is unclear on are the ways that HotS differs from other MOBAs, which is more unfortunate.
To list them point by point:
Stealth is way different than other MOBAs. You can always "see" cloaked units as a blur and target them with AoE; if they take damage, they'll get revealed. On the other hand, there's no way to permanently detect enemies in cloak. I think Tassadar's complete invisibility+invincibility is the only thing the game actually calls "stealth," while everything else is "cloak," but people will call it stealth.
Additionally, buildings can't see cloaked units and will not target them. Backing right behind your wall against competent Nova players is always risky.
To add onto these two, the Core WILL see Cloaked units (and attack them) if you enter its attack range without any other units there first. It came as a bit of a surprise to me once on Nova, when I was trying to plan a cheeky gank. But lo, it was I who was the one that got ganked.
My point is that almost everything I brought up is kind of mentioned, but not explicitly; it can lead to the wrong assumptions if you assume it works like a typical MOBA.
I don't recall if teamwide EXP is covered in the tutorial, but minion aggro certainly isn't (it's not really covered in any MOBA, granted). Minion aggro in Heroes works significantly differently than in League or DotA, especially with regards to firing on summoned units in towerdives.
No, you are wrong. I literally just went through the tutorial again to check. Everything I said is covered in the tutorial is 100% covered.
Regen globes coming from the wizard camps is something I didn't notice until I read about it, and my friends didn't notice until I mentioned it to them. They're all above level 30 and not terrible; it's just not something you explicitly think about when you just begin to assume the globes are roughly once per wave.
I don't know what to tell you, I noticed right away cause Tutorial 2 puts a giant marker over them every time they drop.
Stealth works exactly how you'd think from a Starcraft background. From any other MOBA? Nothing about it works how you'd think, especially the fact that towers don't have true sight (stealthovision).
/shrug
Worked how I expected it. Should definitely be covered in the tutorial though.
Yes, if you come in as an absolutely clean slate, you won't necessarily be told anything incorrectly, but the information given is incomplete and the assumptions you'd draw from typical MOBA experience are incorrect. There's no harm in a more comprehensive tutorial that mentions these sorts of things.
The tutorial covers most of the things you mentioned except for stealth and slowing attacks. It sounds like the few other issues you bring up is you being tripped up by things you learned in other games. Sometimes even though the tooltips and tutorials and such cover how it works in HOTS.
No, you are wrong. I literally just went through the tutorial again to check. Everything I said is covered in the tutorial is 100% covered.
Incorrect. Again, I ask: Have you played other MOBAs?
Minion aggro is not covered, except for if you take tower shots, Uther says not to take hits. This doesn't cover the difference between HotS and other MOBAs, where autoattacking enemies would draw tower fire and minion fire.
I don't know what to tell you, I noticed right away cause Tutorial 2 puts a giant marker over them every time they drop.
I don't know why you care about what to tell me. I've had multiple people not know the wizards are the ones that drop orbs, because it isn't that obvious, especially because if you push the marker never really shows up. It's not a huge deal, but that is something not covered explicitly that's pretty important to know.
The tutorial covers most of the things you mentioned except for stealth and slowing attacks. It sounds like the few other issues you bring up is you being tripped up by things you learned in other games. Sometimes even though the tooltips and tutorials and such cover how it works in HOTS.
Yes, I straight up said the reason the tutorial is kind of bad is it gives incomplete information on aspects where it differs from other MOBAs. I don't know why you're being patronizing about it. Transitioning from other MOBAs to heroes could be a lot smoother if the tutorial wasn't covered, and just saying "I didn't have trouble, what's wrong with you?" is goosery.
No, you are wrong. I literally just went through the tutorial again to check. Everything I said is covered in the tutorial is 100% covered.
Incorrect. Again, I ask: Have you played other MOBAs?
Minion aggro is not covered, except for if you take tower shots, Uther says not to take hits. This doesn't cover the difference between HotS and other MOBAs, where autoattacking enemies would draw tower fire and minion fire.
Uther tells you that towers will always fire at minions first, then you. This is exactly how they behave in game. Could not be clearer.
You are just wrong. This is covered completely. I do not know why you keep insisting otherwise. Play the tutorial right now, it will go over it.
The tutorial covers most of the things you mentioned except for stealth and slowing attacks. It sounds like the few other issues you bring up is you being tripped up by things you learned in other games. Sometimes even though the tooltips and tutorials and such cover how it works in HOTS.
Yes, I straight up said the reason the tutorial is kind of bad is it gives incomplete information on aspects where it differs from other MOBAs. I don't know why you're being patronizing about it. Transitioning from other MOBAs to heroes could be a lot smoother if the tutorial wasn't covered, and just saying "I didn't have trouble, what's wrong with you?" is goosery.
But it doesn't give incomplete information about almost anything. Stealth is about the only thing is doesn't cover. And I guess exactly who drops the regen orb.
Your problem, judging by what you've said, is not that the tutorial doesn't cover these things it's that you assumed things worked one way because of your experience in other games. Despite the fact that the tutorials and tooltips don't say they work that way. It's not the game giving incomplete information, it's you assuming that on top of what they tell you, there's other mechanics. Even though there isn't.
When the game says "Towers attack minions before heroes", it means it. It doesn't secretly mean "But also if you attack the tower, it will attack you", even if that's how other MOBAs work. When the tooltip for hearthstone says "Restore X health and Y mana", that's what happens, even though it might not in other MOBAs.
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Tyrande is good for giving vision, stunning people who have already been hit by CC, and increasing your team's damage output on a specific target. I suspect she only has the heal at all because people would complain about a "support" that had no defensive skills, but she doesn't really work well as any specific role.
Tyrande is one of the most unusual supports. Her healing . . . exists and that's about all that can be said about it. She's more of a debuff the enemy support with her stun and Hunter's Mark and then hitting fleeing enemies with owl snipes.
Actually, none of the heroes on the free rotation this week are particularly easy to just pick up.
Raynor had a total revamp and people aren't sure how to build him. He's probably still pretty simple to play on a basic level but don't expect consensus on talent advice.
Muradin has some great abilities but relies on his team mates to finish the fights he starts.
Arthas is a bit more traditional in that he wades in, slows the enemy, and hits them while healing himself. He's probably the easiest to jump in on this week even if he did get nerfed recently.
Tyrande I just mentioned.
Brightwing is great but balancing her squishiness with needing to be nearby for her passive healing aura to kick in can be tough. Same with figuring out where you should be teleporting to.
Nazeebo is also great but is very positioning dependent. He has surprising durability but no escape. His zombie wall has a ton of uses that are not always immediately apparent. You can unsummon them by pressing 'W' again if you trap an ally.
Thrall is decent but needing to go into melee makes him a bit fragile at times. Don't go into a team fight before your team's warrior.
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I was playing him yesterday and I wasn't really able to make good use of Ravenous, though. Mainly because my team wasn't frontlining well and as a result, wasn't protecting me. We had an engagement at 20 on Garden of Terror, on the bottom right corner of the map (pretty much right near the bottom right siege giants). I stayed in the bush, popped Ravenous, started going to town... and then the enemy Raynor literally walked up and Q'd me out of it. Despite having decent frontline Heroes, no one on my team stopped him from doing so. Was frustrating to say the least, cause this happened several times throughout the match.
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I forget if Raynor's Q knocks back multiple targets but you can always try to zombie wall yourself first so the wall eats many interrupts.
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JOIN THE FIGHT!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Raynor is still pretty easy. Easier now, in fact, cause there's no futzing about with cooldown lowering stuff. His talents are good enough and he's basically a group buff then AA machine, with the knockback for extra damage. I don't think there's too many wrong talents to choose on him.
Which was basically like declaring a no-holds-barred grudge match with a zombie audience. Two heroes enter, Malfurion doesn't leave.
What? Raynor sucks for autos now, at least compared to how he used to be. Between the nerf to his damage and losing both the damage buff and the art of war from inspire, he practically tickles.
I've had no issues so far with his damage but that's not the point I was making anyway. He's got nothing else. You buff, you AA and occasional drop his Q. It's very easy.
Oh yeah, he's simple as hell to play, it's just hard for him to actually do anything. He's just kinda there most of the time. I wouldn't really recommend him to anyone at this point, let alone someone unfamiliar with him.
why, why did nobody tell me about this until now?
You can do the same thing with Zeratul's Void Prison, Sonya's Arreat Crater, and Hammer's Barricade as well. I think there's a small cooldown before you're able to cancel VP though.
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Yeah, I'm super confused as to why they gave him an AA passive in the same patch they nerfed his AA builds. He could actually do things with the cooldown passive, now he's just shitty hammer.
you can also leave a garden terror by pressing R...
I only found out about this reading a guide on Nazeebo and the guide was like "W for unsummon. REMEMBER!" like 5 times.
So so useful.
OMG WHAT?
They really need to put that shit in the tooltips.
What does this do? I did not know this either.
Don't press it.
because you don't deserve to dance if you don't put your all in it
Oh, yeah, you absolutely can cancel ETC's dance as well. Forgot that one.
Can also cancel Nazeebo's Ravenous, as well.
I... think Diablo's Lightning Breath too? Been a while since I played him.
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Is this the usual Blizzard hand-holding, or is it the usual MOBA "don't even bother unless you already have 1000 hours of experience" bullshit?
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It's pretty in the middle. The talent system is the layer of complexity where you can have 'builds' and whatnot, and it's way, way easier to get a hold of than the item shops of other mobas, and for the most part there isn't wacky interactions you need to learn like there is in DotA. Not really sure what counts as Blizzard hand-holding, but I didn't really get that kind of vibe (other than the talent gating which is just an inconvenience more than anything).
It's totally got Blizzard hand-holding at the start if you do the tutorials and there's cooperative where you can learn the ropes against the AI and generally the game is very clear and straightforward about the way stuff works and what you need to do.
Awesome. This is what I was hoping for.
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Also friend and play with PA people.
To list them point by point:
This has one of my favorite official responses on Blizzard's forum.
A lesson in real life as well.
Covered in the tutorial. Along with most of the basic mechanics.
It's on the tooltip.
Not directly covered but Tutorial 1 tells you about regen globes and Tutorial 2 puts a giant marker over every regen globe that drops so you figure this out very quickly.
Huh. I found Stealth to work exactly how I expected it to work given other games I've played. Can't target directly but can AoE, a shimmer if you look closely.
This is one thing that should be added to the tutorials.
My point is that almost everything I brought up is kind of mentioned, but not explicitly; it can lead to the wrong assumptions if you assume it works like a typical MOBA.
I don't recall if teamwide EXP is covered in the tutorial, but minion aggro certainly isn't (it's not really covered in any MOBA, granted). Minion aggro in Heroes works significantly differently than in League or DotA, especially with regards to firing on summoned units in towerdives.
Regen globes coming from the wizard camps is something I didn't notice until I read about it, and my friends didn't notice until I mentioned it to them. They're all above level 30 and not terrible; it's just not something you explicitly think about when you just begin to assume the globes are roughly once per wave.
Stealth works exactly how you'd think from a Starcraft background. From any other MOBA? Nothing about it works how you'd think, especially the fact that towers don't have true sight (stealthovision).
Backing giving regen: On the tooltip, yes. The tutorial just says to use B to go back, and from a League perspective, you wouldn't expect it to give a burst of regen, nor would you necessarily read the tooltip for a skill that seems obvious. It wasn't that well known, given the exploit of "back from inside the fountain to speed up heals" was patched near instantly in (I think) the Jaina patch despite the fact it was theoretically something you could do since Heroes was launched.
Yes, if you come in as an absolutely clean slate, you won't necessarily be told anything incorrectly, but the information given is incomplete and the assumptions you'd draw from typical MOBA experience are incorrect. There's no harm in a more comprehensive tutorial that mentions these sorts of things.
To add onto these two, the Core WILL see Cloaked units (and attack them) if you enter its attack range without any other units there first. It came as a bit of a surprise to me once on Nova, when I was trying to plan a cheeky gank. But lo, it was I who was the one that got ganked.
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No, you are wrong. I literally just went through the tutorial again to check. Everything I said is covered in the tutorial is 100% covered.
I don't know what to tell you, I noticed right away cause Tutorial 2 puts a giant marker over them every time they drop.
/shrug
Worked how I expected it. Should definitely be covered in the tutorial though.
The tutorial covers most of the things you mentioned except for stealth and slowing attacks. It sounds like the few other issues you bring up is you being tripped up by things you learned in other games. Sometimes even though the tooltips and tutorials and such cover how it works in HOTS.
Incorrect. Again, I ask: Have you played other MOBAs?
Minion aggro is not covered, except for if you take tower shots, Uther says not to take hits. This doesn't cover the difference between HotS and other MOBAs, where autoattacking enemies would draw tower fire and minion fire.
I don't know why you care about what to tell me. I've had multiple people not know the wizards are the ones that drop orbs, because it isn't that obvious, especially because if you push the marker never really shows up. It's not a huge deal, but that is something not covered explicitly that's pretty important to know.
Yes, I straight up said the reason the tutorial is kind of bad is it gives incomplete information on aspects where it differs from other MOBAs. I don't know why you're being patronizing about it. Transitioning from other MOBAs to heroes could be a lot smoother if the tutorial wasn't covered, and just saying "I didn't have trouble, what's wrong with you?" is goosery.
Uther tells you that towers will always fire at minions first, then you. This is exactly how they behave in game. Could not be clearer.
You are just wrong. This is covered completely. I do not know why you keep insisting otherwise. Play the tutorial right now, it will go over it.
But it doesn't give incomplete information about almost anything. Stealth is about the only thing is doesn't cover. And I guess exactly who drops the regen orb.
Your problem, judging by what you've said, is not that the tutorial doesn't cover these things it's that you assumed things worked one way because of your experience in other games. Despite the fact that the tutorials and tooltips don't say they work that way. It's not the game giving incomplete information, it's you assuming that on top of what they tell you, there's other mechanics. Even though there isn't.
When the game says "Towers attack minions before heroes", it means it. It doesn't secretly mean "But also if you attack the tower, it will attack you", even if that's how other MOBAs work. When the tooltip for hearthstone says "Restore X health and Y mana", that's what happens, even though it might not in other MOBAs.