this isn't really a balance complaint so much as an issue of expectations, but it is very weird to me that the sniper-y sniper character (Widowmaker) actually does surprising well against Tracer as opposed to getting fairly crushed
charged bodyshot being an instant kill is w/e, but she has vertical movement that tracer doesn't and can get to places Tracer can't, and if Tracer doesn't kill her before the Widow reacts she can grapple away and tracer can't really pursue. the ulti is kinda good against tracer too because her sneaky flanks become less sneaky
i just want to sit on snipers' chests and oppress them ok blizzard pls
May I suggest a particularly handsome young gorilla?
i did get a winston potg intro but that sounds an awful lot like not instant locking an offense and then never switching regardless of the situation
Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited May 2016
A Tracer in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing is the most annoying thing in the world. Which means they're doing it right I suppose. :razz:
But seriously, the flanker/skrimisher characters played correctly can be wildly effective at distracting the enemy team. You don't even have to kill the enemy. As long as two or more are focused on you and not the objective then you're doing a beautiful job.
Edit- thinking about it I'd say in some situations not killing the enemy may be the smarter move.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Okay, the Arcade brawl has grown on me. Playing WP:G as the attackers and THREE of the defenders were playing Mei. Which meant endless icewalls and blocks. But, I picked up the mantle as Zarya and we pushed onward and onward. The entire match took 18 minutes, of which at least the last 10 had to be overtime. Frantic, panicky fun. 10/10 would play again.
I had the most amazing Mercy rez last night playing with @Hermano and @Redcoat-13. We were pushing the objective well and got nearly wiped. Saw the x3 while on the point and thought "perfect"! Potg material right there...
Or it would have been were it not for the enemy D. Va who triggered her ultimate at the same time, which means I rezzed half my team into an insta-kill explosion.
You're welcome.
+9
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I find the current brawl obnoxious because a semi decent Mei can lock down a point alone alternating ice block and well placed walls. I played 2 full games of it yesterday and this happened in both. Especially in tight corridors where she can basically wall herself into a corner. Usually even if you "find" her you have 1 second of damage before she ice blocks again. I mean eventually she dies, but we are talking 2+ minutes of this not letting you cap / move payload and its 1v6. Granted I think my team of pugs wasn't really catching on to how this was going down, I figured out quick the best way to get her was to get on top of her wall.
I can tell I only play pub games when I go to my profile and compare the 'time played,' 'games won' and 'win %' lists. I should apparently be playing Lucio and Zarya fulltime.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
I just want to give a shout out to all the doctors out there. You da real mvp.
It's also fun on tracer when every time you take 5 damage you steal the enemy teams closest health kit. There's not many on maps, it can be a real aggrevation.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I've discovered that pubs love fighting anywhere but on the objective in KotH maps. I'll be with the group on say, Lucio, and then right as I enter the objective I notice I'm the only one there, the rest of them decided to go chase down a Widowmaker who was down on the ground on the other side of the map.
I snuck in a few games before work today. One had me as the only support (Zenyatta) alone on the first capture point in the egypt level. Enemy Genji and someone else, Tracer maybe, show up and kill me, we lose the first point.
We won anyway, because we all stayed near the second point, and Zenyatta is a magnificent force multiplier. Didn't really feel satisfying, though. I don't think my team deserved to win.
The only character I've been frustrated by so far is Tracer. All the others seem to be easy to Rock-Paper-Scissor their weaknesses. We were on Route 66 and a Tracer was just able to sit outside our spawn door and mow people down. Maybe it was a combo of no one (except me) seeing where she was or something but it got frustrating enough that I switched to Soldat 76 and mowed her and her teammates down (don't care how small you and your hitbox is when I can just pull the trigger and murder you). That moment also was PotG (that I didn't record because of how frustrated I was with that round in general).
After some seven hours with the game, I can say I'll definitely be playing each class, but support still if my favorite if only because there is a visceral thrill in playing the class well, while everyone is trying to rack of kills. Knowing that you let people get their "Call of Duties" in is pretty satisfying. Even more so, when you get end of match kudos.
Finally, my only criticism is that there aren't full blown Return to Castle Wolfenstein objective maps. This game seems like it is BUILT for this, that it demands it. RTCW is some of the most fun I've ever had in online co-op. Like all I know back then was CS and MOH:AA (although even that had some objective maps like the beach). RTCW was a revelation, and I hope they bring that magic here.
Also, for an hour before I was able to go to sleep this morning, everytime I closed my eyes, all I saw where colorful characters dancing across my brain, gibbing each other in bright colors. Had to take a sleeping pill I was so amped up. o_0. This is honestly the most pure fun game I've played all year. It's not my favorite game, it's simply the funnest and that counts for a whole lot.
Should I feel bad that I consistently do REALLY well with Bastion?
Probably no more so than I do with Reaper. Also, Shadowstep is criminally underused for what it can let you set up.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I just cannot get the sniping down for Widowmaker and Hanzo. Everyone is moving around so fast. I tried waiting for people to run into my cross hairs and aiming at around head level but I rarely get a hit. This is rough.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
There's nothing quite like playing Mercy with a really good DPS player on Soldier: 76, hearing "Tactical Visor Activated!", moving over to give him a damage boost, then 10 seconds later:
TEAM KILL
He got play of the game. It's a beautiful thing when you find someone worth damage boosting in pubs.
I have the accuracy of an Imperial Stormtrooper when it comes to all the hitscan weapons (76, Bastion, Widow's AR, McCree, Tracer), but I can hold my own with anything that has projectile travel.
GONG-00 on
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I find the current brawl obnoxious because a semi decent Mei can lock down a point alone alternating ice block and well placed walls. I played 2 full games of it yesterday and this happened in both. Especially in tight corridors where she can basically wall herself into a corner. Usually even if you "find" her you have 1 second of damage before she ice blocks again. I mean eventually she dies, but we are talking 2+ minutes of this not letting you cap / move payload and its 1v6. Granted I think my team of pugs wasn't really catching on to how this was going down, I figured out quick the best way to get her was to get on top of her wall.
Eh, You can say the same about a lot of the characters...especially the squishy ones that now have the health to kill you before you normally could kill them. Or like Roadhog/reinhart being unkillable by mid damage characters.
Mei is kinda a monster with double health...she can usually last to ice block back up. I held the point against an entire team for like 3 minutes last night with the payload about 2 meters away from the final point, overtime going the entire time..long enough for my wiped team to get back and resecure.
Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Please don't just stick on one character
Give Over the Genji
McCree? McChange.
Pass the Pharah
Don't Reap all the Reaper
86 that Solider Pick
Trace Your Mouse to a New Character
Teamwork is the Bastion of us all
Hand over the Hanzo
Not every other character is Junk, Junkrat
Other heroes are Dank, Meimei
Takes more than one hero to make a meal, Torby
Widowmake me a New Character
Don't be a D'Va Diva
It's not Hardt to change characters
Don't hog the Roadhog
Quit monkeying around and change, Winston
Zaryagotta Change It Up
Lucioh Please!
Lord have Mercy, Mercy let's change it up
Zenyattagotta be changing characters
Symmetra? I betcha would like another character
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
It is not the double health, its the fact her ice block is basically a 2.5 second cooldown if you let it last the whole duration. The wall will ALWAYS be available for those 2.5 seconds.
It is the fact that a single person, yes JUST ONE can hold the defense for long periods of time and if your team doesn't get it, likely indefinitely. If the rest of the enemy team had actually played into this it wouldn't have even come close.
I am actually shocked they didn't try to get 1 or 2 more Meis doing this as it would be hard enough to just kill one.
All other aspects of it kind of balance each other out. The TTK actually felt really good with double health. The fact fights went longer between people dying was balanced out by the fact the attack could sit on the point longer. And all the OP shit that came up (Zarya comes to mind) can be countered with other OP shit.
But a single person being unkillable over 50% of the time that also counts as holding the point and that also has high health anyway, self heals, and has a disruptive wall that makes it extremely hard to find them in corridors has no counter. You can't pick a char that stops the ice block, you can't pick a char that shoots through the wall and only bastion could break it quickly, and then you have to hope when you do you kill her with the 1 second you have left before another ice block.
It is not the double health, its the fact her ice block is basically a 2.5 second cooldown if you let it last the whole duration. The wall will ALWAYS be available for those 2.5 seconds.
It is the fact that a single person, yes JUST ONE can hold the defense for long periods of time and if your team doesn't get it, likely indefinitely. If the rest of the enemy team had actually played into this it wouldn't have even come close.
I am actually shocked they didn't try to get 1 or 2 more Meis doing this as it would be hard enough to just kill one.
All other aspects of it kind of balance each other out. The TTK actually felt really good with double health. The fact fights went longer between people dying was balanced out by the fact the attack could sit on the point longer. And all the OP shit that came up (Zarya comes to mind) can be countered with other OP shit.
But a single person being unkillable over 50% of the time that also counts as holding the point and that also has high health anyway, self heals, and has a disruptive wall that makes it extremely hard to find them in corridors has no counter. You can't pick a char that stops the ice block, you can't pick a char that shoots through the wall and only bastion could break it quickly, and then you have to hope when you do you kill her with the 1 second you have left before another ice block.
While I haven't played Mei too much, her cooldown on iceblock is definitely not 2.5 seconds if you let it last the whole time; it's like 8. I imagine that you may be confusing the weekly smash mode where cooldowns are reduced? If that's the case, you probably shouldn't go off about class balance in a game mode where everyone is nutso overbalanced.
No, he means the weekly mode, where Mei is near impossible to get off the payload. Zarya is aomost as bad - massive regenning shield, low cooldown self shield, and constantly lobbing.max-energy death at you.
I think that it's sort of weird that characters are able to contest objectives while in an invincible state. I don't know if it's really a problem besides the weekly brawls, but it certainly is a conscious decision I could easily have seen Blizzard flipping on.
Also in the weekly mode you can keep up Overtime indefinitely with Tracer; quadruple dash and rewind have slightly less cooldown than the overtime, so you can charge in from across the map for a tick and back out forever.
No, he means the weekly mode, where Mei is near impossible to get off the payload. Zarya is aomost as bad - massive regenning shield, low cooldown self shield, and constantly lobbing.max-energy death at you.
Yes, everyone is overpowered in the weekly mode. I can near constantly revive as Mercy in it. So what? That's the point of the mode: for powers to be ridiculous due to the shorter cooldowns. That mode is about mayhem and ridiculousness as fun not as a balanced game mode.
In regular play, Mei can ice wall, then ice block when it drops, then recast wall. But she has to full duration ice block to do that, which gives you time to set up. A junkrat trap can be thrown at her feet while she's in the ice block and it'll instantly trigger when block drops. The wall segments can be broken by doing enough damage to them.
No, he means the weekly mode, where Mei is near impossible to get off the payload. Zarya is aomost as bad - massive regenning shield, low cooldown self shield, and constantly lobbing.max-energy death at you.
Yes, everyone is overpowered in the weekly mode. I can near constantly revive as Mercy in it. So what? That's the point of the mode: for powers to be ridiculous due to the shorter cooldowns. That mode is about mayhem and ridiculousness as fun not as a balanced game mode.
A lot of characters are wacky fun in the weekly brawl. Mei is less so, since instead of constantly doing dumb shit, she's just near constantly an invincible block of ice. That is a lot more frustrating than infinite mercy revives or permanently flying Pharahs, since at least you can do something about those.
I ate an engineer
+1
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Dang, players seem to have learned to watch out for the "Death from Above" lady. This was my last match with her:
"Justice rains from-" [ Widowmaker headshot]
"Justice rains-" [Bastion unloads a full magazine]
"Justice rains from-" [3, count em, 3 Soldier 76's shoot at the same time]
Dang, players seem to have learned to watch out for the "Death from Above" lady. This was my last match with her:
"Justice rains from-" [ Widowmaker headshot]
"Justice rains-" [Bastion unloads a full magazine]
"Justice rains from-" [3, count em, 3 Soldier 76's shoot at the same time]
Well that sucked.
Tips for her ult:
Consider firing it from lower to the ground. It'll do more damage and kill much faster, and it's less expected.
Don't fire a ton of rockets before you start it. If you're hovering over the same location firing softball rockets, even if they're missing you know they'll definitely shoot you out when you ult.
Fire it in combination with another ult/your team going in. Difficult to do with pubs, but possible.
Consider switching off Pharah if the enemy team has several counters to you. Almost anybody with a long range weapon will have a fairly easy time shooting you in midair and will have no trouble killing you during your ult. If you still feel you need to soften the enemy with explosives, Junkrat may be the right choice as a Pharah substitute.
More than 2 person ults are just gravy; I pretty much always try to flank somebody who is separate from their team, obliterate them with ult, and then finish the barrage on the nearest enemy (preferably a support).
If you can pop your ult to stop an enemy ult (e.g. pop Justice to stop tank Bastion) you're making the right call. Be aware that for most all ults you have to be right next to the enemy for this to be a good idea, because they'll generally kill you before your rockets can spread out and reach them otherwise.
No, he means the weekly mode, where Mei is near impossible to get off the payload. Zarya is aomost as bad - massive regenning shield, low cooldown self shield, and constantly lobbing.max-energy death at you.
Yes, everyone is overpowered in the weekly mode. I can near constantly revive as Mercy in it. So what? That's the point of the mode: for powers to be ridiculous due to the shorter cooldowns. That mode is about mayhem and ridiculousness as fun not as a balanced game mode.
A lot of characters are wacky fun in the weekly brawl. Mei is less so, since instead of constantly doing dumb shit, she's just near constantly an invincible block of ice. That is a lot more frustrating than infinite mercy revives or permanently flying Pharahs, since at least you can do something about those.
I guess I just don't understand. When I care about class balance and a fair game mode; then I don't play the clearly unbalanced game mode because there are going to be shenanigans. Sure many powers will be frustrating, but that's kind of the point to revel in the ridiculousness of it all.
Junkrat's RIP Tire would get far less PotGs if eliminating Rat also destroyed the tire.
Waiting to see if people start to get better at blowing up the tire, doesn't seem like it takes that much to blow it up and you usually know where it will be coming from
Posts
Ex I got Bastion's "Triple Threat" achievement in Beta and kept it, but the general "Can't touch this" achievement I had to earn again
But seriously, the flanker/skrimisher characters played correctly can be wildly effective at distracting the enemy team. You don't even have to kill the enemy. As long as two or more are focused on you and not the objective then you're doing a beautiful job.
Edit- thinking about it I'd say in some situations not killing the enemy may be the smarter move.
STEAM | XBL | PSN
If D.Va had more damage output, I would freaking wreck them.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Or it would have been were it not for the enemy D. Va who triggered her ultimate at the same time, which means I rezzed half my team into an insta-kill explosion.
You're welcome.
Picked up Triple Threat achievement the other night.
I snuck in a few games before work today. One had me as the only support (Zenyatta) alone on the first capture point in the egypt level. Enemy Genji and someone else, Tracer maybe, show up and kill me, we lose the first point.
We won anyway, because we all stayed near the second point, and Zenyatta is a magnificent force multiplier. Didn't really feel satisfying, though. I don't think my team deserved to win.
After some seven hours with the game, I can say I'll definitely be playing each class, but support still if my favorite if only because there is a visceral thrill in playing the class well, while everyone is trying to rack of kills. Knowing that you let people get their "Call of Duties" in is pretty satisfying. Even more so, when you get end of match kudos.
Finally, my only criticism is that there aren't full blown Return to Castle Wolfenstein objective maps. This game seems like it is BUILT for this, that it demands it. RTCW is some of the most fun I've ever had in online co-op. Like all I know back then was CS and MOH:AA (although even that had some objective maps like the beach). RTCW was a revelation, and I hope they bring that magic here.
Also, for an hour before I was able to go to sleep this morning, everytime I closed my eyes, all I saw where colorful characters dancing across my brain, gibbing each other in bright colors. Had to take a sleeping pill I was so amped up. o_0. This is honestly the most pure fun game I've played all year. It's not my favorite game, it's simply the funnest and that counts for a whole lot.
Probably no more so than I do with Reaper. Also, Shadowstep is criminally underused for what it can let you set up.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
TEAM KILL
He got play of the game. It's a beautiful thing when you find someone worth damage boosting in pubs.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Eh, You can say the same about a lot of the characters...especially the squishy ones that now have the health to kill you before you normally could kill them. Or like Roadhog/reinhart being unkillable by mid damage characters.
Mei is kinda a monster with double health...she can usually last to ice block back up. I held the point against an entire team for like 3 minutes last night with the payload about 2 meters away from the final point, overtime going the entire time..long enough for my wiped team to get back and resecure.
Give Over the Genji
McCree? McChange.
Pass the Pharah
Don't Reap all the Reaper
86 that Solider Pick
Trace Your Mouse to a New Character
Teamwork is the Bastion of us all
Hand over the Hanzo
Not every other character is Junk, Junkrat
Other heroes are Dank, Meimei
Takes more than one hero to make a meal, Torby
Widowmake me a New Character
Don't be a D'Va Diva
It's not Hardt to change characters
Don't hog the Roadhog
Quit monkeying around and change, Winston
Zaryagotta Change It Up
Lucioh Please!
Lord have Mercy, Mercy let's change it up
Zenyattagotta be changing characters
Symmetra? I betcha would like another character
It is the fact that a single person, yes JUST ONE can hold the defense for long periods of time and if your team doesn't get it, likely indefinitely. If the rest of the enemy team had actually played into this it wouldn't have even come close.
I am actually shocked they didn't try to get 1 or 2 more Meis doing this as it would be hard enough to just kill one.
All other aspects of it kind of balance each other out. The TTK actually felt really good with double health. The fact fights went longer between people dying was balanced out by the fact the attack could sit on the point longer. And all the OP shit that came up (Zarya comes to mind) can be countered with other OP shit.
But a single person being unkillable over 50% of the time that also counts as holding the point and that also has high health anyway, self heals, and has a disruptive wall that makes it extremely hard to find them in corridors has no counter. You can't pick a char that stops the ice block, you can't pick a char that shoots through the wall and only bastion could break it quickly, and then you have to hope when you do you kill her with the 1 second you have left before another ice block.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
While I haven't played Mei too much, her cooldown on iceblock is definitely not 2.5 seconds if you let it last the whole time; it's like 8. I imagine that you may be confusing the weekly smash mode where cooldowns are reduced? If that's the case, you probably shouldn't go off about class balance in a game mode where everyone is nutso overbalanced.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Yes, everyone is overpowered in the weekly mode. I can near constantly revive as Mercy in it. So what? That's the point of the mode: for powers to be ridiculous due to the shorter cooldowns. That mode is about mayhem and ridiculousness as fun not as a balanced game mode.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
A lot of characters are wacky fun in the weekly brawl. Mei is less so, since instead of constantly doing dumb shit, she's just near constantly an invincible block of ice. That is a lot more frustrating than infinite mercy revives or permanently flying Pharahs, since at least you can do something about those.
"Justice rains from-" [ Widowmaker headshot]
"Justice rains-" [Bastion unloads a full magazine]
"Justice rains from-" [3, count em, 3 Soldier 76's shoot at the same time]
Well that sucked.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Tips for her ult:
I guess I just don't understand. When I care about class balance and a fair game mode; then I don't play the clearly unbalanced game mode because there are going to be shenanigans. Sure many powers will be frustrating, but that's kind of the point to revel in the ridiculousness of it all.
I'll just continue on my merry way.
Sorry, no.
You don't hassel the hogg
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Waiting to see if people start to get better at blowing up the tire, doesn't seem like it takes that much to blow it up and you usually know where it will be coming from