I imagine the same angry mob that was strong enough to imprison members of the royal family to begin with, only now they have reason to be even angrier.
Who is loyal to Cersei besides Qyburn and his kid army and zombie Mountain? Lannister soldiers shouldn't be. Kevan was the head of House Lannister, and she killed him (her own uncle). Kinslaying is supposed to be taboo, even though between the Boltons, the Sands, and the Lannisters it keeps happening again and again and no one seems to care anymore.
The mob was only strong enough because Tommen was an indecisive child who fell in with that same mob. And that mob had its numbers thinned somewhat in a large explosion. The Lannister soldiers will be loyal to the highest ranking Lord or Lady available with the name Lannister, which is Cercei now. They can suspect she blew up the Sept all they want, suspicion doesn't always translate into action, especially when speaking out means you might be having a friendly discussion with 500 pounds of Mecha-Mountain.
Not true
Jaime is the head of house lannister now
True but he was absent with the bulk of their forces. They just went with the one in the city.
Yeah but
he just rolled into town with 8000 lannister soldiers
if Jaime sides against Cersei she's turbofucked
Who commands the gold cloaks these days? There are like, 10,000 of them right?
technically Cersei but Jaime is going to be paying the bills and I can't imagine they want mad queen in charge
and the gold cloaks are no army, they were no match for Stannis' forces, they're more like a militia
they sure as shit wouldn't oppose an actual army with any hint of legitimacy behind it to defend a woman who burned down 20% of the city
besides I think they might have their hands full with civil unrest
override367 on
+1
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Just when you start to get a little sympathy for Cersei:
She goes and throws the best fireworks show ever seen in King's landing, tortures a nun with zombie mountain, and takes the throne.
That bitch is cold as ice.
"Look, all I know is that this cord was plugged into my house and your house was glowing like the freakin' sun. So, I put two and two together there and decided that you're pissing me off." -Carl Brutananadilewski
In regards to the advocates of his former empire: “I was going to have them all executed… the Royal Advocate talked me out of it.” -Shadowthrone (Emperor Kellanved)
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I really hope Cersei's acts in the finale end up cementing Jaime's place in the good-guy camp. He was so vile while threatening Edmure Tully, but hopefully now he might see Cersei's ambition and madness transcends everything, even his love. She sent Jaime away from her to retake Riverrun (a stronghold that they claimed by murder and deceit in supporting their family's illegitimate regime), and Jaime returns to find the city burning, his only living child the victim of suicide (thanks to Cersei's machinations), and his lover behind it all.
Jaime, hopefully, will come to admit his own complicity in these events and make things right, either by abandoning King's Landing to support the North or taking Cersei down from power.
Also, how totally weird would it be if, after all this, when Dany finally arrives in Westeros there's no one left bothered enough to oppose her?
I imagine Dany arriving in Westeros at the head of her army, only to find Jon and his army standing on the coast.
Then he shoves a bag of Dragonglass at her and says "Oh thank God you're here. Deal with this!", pointing at the legions of encroaching undead before he and his men hop the boats and head for Mireen.
I really hope Cersei's acts in the finale end up cementing Jaime's place in the good-guy camp. He was so vile while threatening Edmure Tully, but hopefully now he might see Cersei's ambition and madness transcends everything, even his love. She sent Jaime away from her to retake Riverrun (a stronghold that they claimed by murder and deceit in supporting their family's illegitimate regime), and Jaime returns to find the city burning, his only living child the victim of suicide (thanks to Cersei's machinations), and his lover behind it all.
Jaime, hopefully, will come to admit his own complicity in these events and make things right, either by abandoning King's Landing to support the North or taking Cersei down from power.
Also, how totally weird would it be if, after all this, when Dany finally arrives in Westeros there's no one left bothered enough to oppose her?
Edmure situation is interesting. This is book influenced but I really felt like ShowJamie was trying to give as good a deal as possible to Edmure because he wanted to avoid any more bloodshed. What he realized during the conversation is that he can't do the nice guy thing because everybody has these preconceived notions of who he is. He can fail, and kill a fuck ton more peasants, or he can play to type and frighten somebody into accepting their best case scenario.
Basically be the villain in order to save folks who will hate him for saving them. Which is sorta like Jamie's whole thing.
Yara seems the open minded sort. perhaps she'll take the same view as Daario and wont mind sharing.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
She may be a little bit of a rebel, but she is savvy enough not to ditch advantages a marriage gives her - and she needs as many as she can get.
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
i think this might have made sense if they'd spent more time in Mereen and if her marriage to ensure peace there had gotten more than 10 minutes of screen time.
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
i think this might have made sense if they'd spent more time in Mereen and if her marriage to ensure peace there had gotten more than 10 minutes of screen time.
The one moment she found someone who didn't want to marry her...
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
i think this might have made sense if they'd spent more time in Mereen and if her marriage to ensure peace there had gotten more than 10 minutes of screen time.
As a book reader, the less time the show spends in Mereen the happier I am.
It seems to me Littlefinger is trying to (show spoiler)
create a wedge between Sansa and Snow. In all his scenes he is putting snow down and feeding her lines how she should be queen. That look at the end if the season. Is it working?
Sansa
A lot of people are interpreting that look as more of a "go back to babysitting creepy kid" directed at Littlefinger more than a wedge between Sansa and Jon. Sansa looks happy when Lyanna declares for Jon and some people think Sansa may have pushed Lyanna to do so given how earlier Jon and Sansa were insisting the other take the title.
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
i think this might have made sense if they'd spent more time in Mereen and if her marriage to ensure peace there had gotten more than 10 minutes of screen time.
As a book reader, the less time the show spends in Mereen the happier I am.
I have less hate for Meereen than most book readers since I went into the series late and didn't have to wait years only to get more Meereen but even then a lot of the themes wouldn't work well in show format. A big thing about it is having the POV characters being deceived or being unreliable narrators and stuff like the Shavepate very likely feeding Selmy lies to further his own ambitions and grudges wouldn't work anywhere near as well if we saw the former obtaining false testimony or poisoning food.
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
so Jon (finale spoilers)
- is Dany's nephew
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
- probably doesn't want it
- and is only, like, fourth in line for lord of Winterfell
- is Dany's first cousin
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
Dany's nephew i think. which would put him ahead of Dany in line for the the throne if he were legitimate. there's also the pesky business of no one knowing he's really a Targ, but i'm guessing there's some proof locked away in the Winterfell crypt to clear that up.
+5
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
- is Dany's first cousin nephew
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
- probably doesn't want it
- and is only, like, fourth in line for lord of Winterfell
Fixed that for you.
Though the technically first cousins once removed thing confuses the shit out of me. We have words for such things in english!
- is Dany's first cousin
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
Dany's nephew i think. which would put him ahead of Dany in line for the the throne if he were legitimate. there's also the pesky business of no one knowing he's really a Targ, but i'm guessing there's some proof locked away in the Winterfell crypt to clear that up.
- is Dany's first cousin nephew
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
- probably doesn't want it
- and is only, like, fourth in line for lord of Winterfell
Fixed that for you.
Though the technically first cousins once removed thing confuses the shit out of me. We have words for such things in english!
the cousins removed thing is not that confusing once you learn it.
first/second/etc is how many generations between you and a shared ancestor, first is one generation (aka, your parents are not the same, but their parents are the same), second is two, etc
once/twice/etc removed is how many generations down one member of the pair being examined is away from that level.
Example: I have a first cousin, my mother's sister's son. He has a son. We are first cousins, once removed because we still have the same generation shared ancestor, but he is one generation removed from that relationship. If I had a son, my son and my cousin's son would be second cousins, because they share an ancestor at the great-grandparent level.
- is Dany's first cousin
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
Dany's nephew i think. which would put him ahead of Dany in line for the the throne if he were legitimate. there's also the pesky business of no one knowing he's really a Targ, but i'm guessing there's some proof locked away in the Winterfell crypt to clear that up.
or the citadel
lots of books there, mang
Given the need to keep it a secret, I doubt they sent a written record of it down to Oldtown. That's almost the opposite of keeping it a secret. My guess:
Dany will meet Jon and the dragons will be surprisingly friendly with him.
I really hope Cersei's acts in the finale end up cementing Jaime's place in the good-guy camp. He was so vile while threatening Edmure Tully, but hopefully now he might see Cersei's ambition and madness transcends everything, even his love. She sent Jaime away from her to retake Riverrun (a stronghold that they claimed by murder and deceit in supporting their family's illegitimate regime), and Jaime returns to find the city burning, his only living child the victim of suicide (thanks to Cersei's machinations), and his lover behind it all.
Jaime, hopefully, will come to admit his own complicity in these events and make things right, either by abandoning King's Landing to support the North or taking Cersei down from power.
Also, how totally weird would it be if, after all this, when Dany finally arrives in Westeros there's no one left bothered enough to oppose her?
Edmure situation is interesting. This is book influenced but I really felt like ShowJamie was trying to give as good a deal as possible to Edmure because he wanted to avoid any more bloodshed. What he realized during the conversation is that he can't do the nice guy thing because everybody has these preconceived notions of who he is. He can fail, and kill a fuck ton more peasants, or he can play to type and frighten somebody into accepting their best case scenario.
Basically be the villain in order to save folks who will hate him for saving them. Which is sorta like Jamie's whole thing.
I agree, but I don't think they did a very good job of showing that. It's something that could've been done well, but wasn't.
I imagine the same angry mob that was strong enough to imprison members of the royal family to begin with, only now they have reason to be even angrier.
Who is loyal to Cersei besides Qyburn and his kid army and zombie Mountain? Lannister soldiers shouldn't be. Kevan was the head of House Lannister, and she killed him (her own uncle). Kinslaying is supposed to be taboo, even though between the Boltons, the Sands, and the Lannisters it keeps happening again and again and no one seems to care anymore.
The mob was only strong enough because Tommen was an indecisive child who fell in with that same mob. And that mob had its numbers thinned somewhat in a large explosion. The Lannister soldiers will be loyal to the highest ranking Lord or Lady available with the name Lannister, which is Cercei now. They can suspect she blew up the Sept all they want, suspicion doesn't always translate into action, especially when speaking out means you might be having a friendly discussion with 500 pounds of Mecha-Mountain.
Not true
Jaime is the head of house lannister now
Did they explicitly say that?
The fact that Cersei took over as queen implies--to me--that she's also head of House Lannister. Westeros doesn't do queens, she doesn't have a very strong claim because she's only related to the Baratheons by marriage, but she took the title anyway because she has armies and she can. I don't see why she wouldn't also consider herself head of House Lannister in the process. And Jaime's not really the type to contest that claim, either. I can see that changing, particularly as everything is falling apart and he's getting flashbacks to the Mad King, but I don't think he's there yet.
- is Dany's first cousin
- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
Dany's nephew i think. which would put him ahead of Dany in line for the the throne if he were legitimate. there's also the pesky business of no one knowing he's really a Targ, but i'm guessing there's some proof locked away in the Winterfell crypt to clear that up.
or the citadel
lots of books there, mang
Given the need to keep it a secret, I doubt they sent a written record of it down to Oldtown. That's almost the opposite of keeping it a secret. My guess:
Dany will meet Jon and the dragons will be surprisingly friendly with him.
Most likely person to spill the beans is the last living witness to the events at the Tower of Joy, Howland "Backstab multiplier 4.0x" Reed
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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I really hope Cersei's acts in the finale end up cementing Jaime's place in the good-guy camp. He was so vile while threatening Edmure Tully, but hopefully now he might see Cersei's ambition and madness transcends everything, even his love. She sent Jaime away from her to retake Riverrun (a stronghold that they claimed by murder and deceit in supporting their family's illegitimate regime), and Jaime returns to find the city burning, his only living child the victim of suicide (thanks to Cersei's machinations), and his lover behind it all.
Jaime, hopefully, will come to admit his own complicity in these events and make things right, either by abandoning King's Landing to support the North or taking Cersei down from power.
Also, how totally weird would it be if, after all this, when Dany finally arrives in Westeros there's no one left bothered enough to oppose her?
Edmure situation is interesting. This is book influenced but I really felt like ShowJamie was trying to give as good a deal as possible to Edmure because he wanted to avoid any more bloodshed. What he realized during the conversation is that he can't do the nice guy thing because everybody has these preconceived notions of who he is. He can fail, and kill a fuck ton more peasants, or he can play to type and frighten somebody into accepting their best case scenario.
Basically be the villain in order to save folks who will hate him for saving them. Which is sorta like Jamie's whole thing.
I agree, but I don't think they did a very good job of showing that. It's something that could've been done well, but wasn't.
I imagine the same angry mob that was strong enough to imprison members of the royal family to begin with, only now they have reason to be even angrier.
Who is loyal to Cersei besides Qyburn and his kid army and zombie Mountain? Lannister soldiers shouldn't be. Kevan was the head of House Lannister, and she killed him (her own uncle). Kinslaying is supposed to be taboo, even though between the Boltons, the Sands, and the Lannisters it keeps happening again and again and no one seems to care anymore.
The mob was only strong enough because Tommen was an indecisive child who fell in with that same mob. And that mob had its numbers thinned somewhat in a large explosion. The Lannister soldiers will be loyal to the highest ranking Lord or Lady available with the name Lannister, which is Cercei now. They can suspect she blew up the Sept all they want, suspicion doesn't always translate into action, especially when speaking out means you might be having a friendly discussion with 500 pounds of Mecha-Mountain.
Not true
Jaime is the head of house lannister now
Did they explicitly say that?
The fact that Cersei took over as queen implies--to me--that she's also head of House Lannister. Westeros doesn't do queens, she doesn't have a very strong claim because she's only related to the Baratheons by marriage, but she took the title anyway because she has armies and she can. I don't see why she wouldn't also consider herself head of House Lannister in the process. And Jaime's not really the type to contest that claim, either. I can see that changing, particularly as everything is falling apart and he's getting flashbacks to the Mad King, but I don't think he's there yet.
Cersei
Technically Cersei was Tommen's heir given how he had no children, siblings, or on-paper-father left alive so she actually does have a decent claim on top of an army and her political rivals in King's Landing exploded at what was supposed to be her trial.
As far as the House itself goes, in the backstory Robert had to give up all claims to Baratheon lands and titles to appease the nobility when he took the throne so even if Cersei was head of the Lannisters and hadn't relinquished that to Jaime previously she likely would have to upon claiming the throne.
there'd have to be a counsel to decide on the new king
maybe that's why they killed the other maester? I was unclear on that decision.
That's just what happened last time there was a giant clusterfuck over the succession. I don't think their was one for Robert's Rebellion but one time awhile ago a bunch of Targaryens killed each other until it was unclear who left standing should be king.
there'd have to be a counsel to decide on the new king
maybe that's why they killed the other maester? I was unclear on that decision.
I thought that was more personal between the maesters. Like, the necro maester (forgot his name) may have planted the thought in Cersei's head "Hey, while you're killing everyone off, why not bump off the old maester? We'll get a bunch of kids with knives and lure him to the dungeon..." and Cersei just kind of shrugged, figured "what's one more body?" and gave the go ahead.
Second though that occurred to me, the maester knew about the wildfire under the city and wasn't completely under Cersei's thumb. He could have figured out who blew up the church pretty quickly.
The whole thing about Dany dumping Daario to keep her marriage options open seems weirdly out of character for a Queen who don't give no fucks about opposition
Makes more sense when you realize literally her entire life up till the dragons she understood that her entire purpose in the world was to marry for power.
there'd have to be a counsel to decide on the new king
maybe that's why they killed the other maester? I was unclear on that decision.
There very well could have been one off screen. Time is implied to have passed between events.
Such a council may not have been that interesting though. As much as whoever is now in charge of the Tyrell family may not want Cersei on the throne, they wouldn't be able to do much without proof she exploded everything and without any alternative candidates with a claim to put forward. Every sibling, spouse, paternal uncle, and "cousin" that could be offered as a successor has been killed. This is a successor/claimant elimination that exceeds a non-Muslim Crusader Kings 2 game.
there'd have to be a counsel to decide on the new king
maybe that's why they killed the other maester? I was unclear on that decision.
That's just what happened last time there was a giant clusterfuck over the succession. I don't think their was one for Robert's Rebellion but one time awhile ago a bunch of Targaryens killed each other until it was unclear who left standing should be king.
You're thinking of
the Blackfyre Rebellion which happened a few hundred years earlier. What happened was a Targaryen king legitimized all of his many bastards on his deathbed causing a massive succession crisis. Its the era where the dude who became the Three eyed Raven came from actually. He was one of the bastards from the Riverlands who eventually got sent to the Wall.
Posts
Didn't Ser Robert Strong have two flanking him in this episode?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
and the gold cloaks are no army, they were no match for Stannis' forces, they're more like a militia
they sure as shit wouldn't oppose an actual army with any hint of legitimacy behind it to defend a woman who burned down 20% of the city
besides I think they might have their hands full with civil unrest
yahs queen
In regards to the advocates of his former empire: “I was going to have them all executed… the Royal Advocate talked me out of it.” -Shadowthrone (Emperor Kellanved)
Handles: LoL-Emerging, BF4/Hardline-Whiskeyjack227, Steam-Fragglerock, HOTS/Blizzard-Whiskeyjack#1333, Life-Jason
Jaime, hopefully, will come to admit his own complicity in these events and make things right, either by abandoning King's Landing to support the North or taking Cersei down from power.
Also, how totally weird would it be if, after all this, when Dany finally arrives in Westeros there's no one left bothered enough to oppose her?
Then he shoves a bag of Dragonglass at her and says "Oh thank God you're here. Deal with this!", pointing at the legions of encroaching undead before he and his men hop the boats and head for Mireen.
Basically be the villain in order to save folks who will hate him for saving them. Which is sorta like Jamie's whole thing.
Yara seems the open minded sort. perhaps she'll take the same view as Daario and wont mind sharing.
She may be a little bit of a rebel, but she is savvy enough not to ditch advantages a marriage gives her - and she needs as many as she can get.
i think this might have made sense if they'd spent more time in Mereen and if her marriage to ensure peace there had gotten more than 10 minutes of screen time.
The one moment she found someone who didn't want to marry her...
As a book reader, the less time the show spends in Mereen the happier I am.
Sansa
I have less hate for Meereen than most book readers since I went into the series late and didn't have to wait years only to get more Meereen but even then a lot of the themes wouldn't work well in show format. A big thing about it is having the POV characters being deceived or being unreliable narrators and stuff like the Shavepate very likely feeding Selmy lies to further his own ambitions and grudges wouldn't work anywhere near as well if we saw the former obtaining false testimony or poisoning food.
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- is Sansa/Bran/Arya's first cousin
- by traditional rules of succession, is owed the Iron Throne over Dany
- probably doesn't want it
- and is only, like, fourth in line for lord of Winterfell
You missed the most important one:
Unless Rhaegar and Lyanna were wed in secret during the war, Jon is a Targ/Stark bastard now instead of just a Stark one
It's hard to say that for certain, but I'm sure no one is lining up to defend his legitimacy anytime soon.
Fixed that for you.
Though the technically first cousins once removed thing confuses the shit out of me. We have words for such things in english!
Ramsay: Legit bastard.
Gendry: Royal bastard.
Jon:
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or the citadel
lots of books there, mang
the cousins removed thing is not that confusing once you learn it.
first/second/etc is how many generations between you and a shared ancestor, first is one generation (aka, your parents are not the same, but their parents are the same), second is two, etc
once/twice/etc removed is how many generations down one member of the pair being examined is away from that level.
Example: I have a first cousin, my mother's sister's son. He has a son. We are first cousins, once removed because we still have the same generation shared ancestor, but he is one generation removed from that relationship. If I had a son, my son and my cousin's son would be second cousins, because they share an ancestor at the great-grandparent level.
Given the need to keep it a secret, I doubt they sent a written record of it down to Oldtown. That's almost the opposite of keeping it a secret. My guess:
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I agree, but I don't think they did a very good job of showing that. It's something that could've been done well, but wasn't.
Did they explicitly say that?
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Cersei
As far as the House itself goes, in the backstory Robert had to give up all claims to Baratheon lands and titles to appease the nobility when he took the throne so even if Cersei was head of the Lannisters and hadn't relinquished that to Jaime previously she likely would have to upon claiming the throne.
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maybe that's why they killed the other maester? I was unclear on that decision.
That's just what happened last time there was a giant clusterfuck over the succession. I don't think their was one for Robert's Rebellion but one time awhile ago a bunch of Targaryens killed each other until it was unclear who left standing should be king.
Second though that occurred to me, the maester knew about the wildfire under the city and wasn't completely under Cersei's thumb. He could have figured out who blew up the church pretty quickly.
Makes more sense when you realize literally her entire life up till the dragons she understood that her entire purpose in the world was to marry for power.
the show has made it abundantly clear that the line of succession goes from the last leader to who whoever says they are next with the biggest stick
There very well could have been one off screen. Time is implied to have passed between events.
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