why have Bernard shoot himself in the head and leave him there? What the fuck purpose does that serve, when he could've just said, "No bro, it's cool, you're right, it's time to shut this thing down, here's my plan."
When in the series is there a single moment of Ford ever demonstrating the slightest amount of empathy for anyone? He berates a tech for covering up a naked host as if they're a real person, and cuts the host's face to make his point! Was it somehow vital to robot independence to fool that tech into thinking he's not as asshole?
I mean
establishing a reputation as someone who just absolutely does not give a shit about the hosts as anything more than tools for the park is a pretty smart move to make if you are secretly working to create an environment for hosts to be self-aware fully realized beings which pretty much everyone else in the park would revolt against in a heartbeat
as for the Bernard thing, that was pretty ridiculous but it also seems that he knew Maeve was going to come and patch him back up since it was part of her script so it wasn't as horrifying as it seemed at the time? I dunno.
Maeve's journey was scripted - so of course Bernard's revival was, too
And
he's not without empathy and stopping other humans from showing empathy so the humans don't get attached to hosts - he doesn't want the hosts to get attached to humans. It was purgatory so they touch the ground running, not as children
Maeve's journey was scripted - so of course Bernard's revival was, too
And
he's not without empathy and stopping other humans from showing empathy so the humans don't get attached to hosts - he doesn't want the hosts to get attached to humans. It was purgatory so they touch the ground running, not as children
That explanation might be true, but it's nowhere in the text of the show, you have to invent reasons for why he would do it.
The problem is that when you ask "Why did this character do this?" the only real answer is "Well because it was The Plot!"
Like, the show has a bunch of good things going for it, I'm just hoping that season 2 they actually get some characters in it!
What is Dolores' personality? What is she like? Why did she decide to do anything she did in Season 1?
What about Felix? What does Felix care about?
How about Bernard, what does Bernard want?
Ford? Not what does he do, what is Ford's motivation. Why does he want what he wants?
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
For me honestly, the interesting part of the show is over.
I'm definitely sad to lose Anthony Hopkins, but I'll keep watching for Jeffrey Wright, Ed Harris, and an Evan Rachel Wood that gets to do more than walk around and look bewildered
I would not at all be surprised if
the "dead" Hopkins was a host, decoy style. The board got wiped out, probably the simplest way to regain control - not directly in the immediate future, but still. Wtf is the immediate future, anyway. Walking Dead with robots?
The whole thing with the finale was revealing that Ford was on the robots' side the whole time, he came around to Arnold's way of thinking long ago, and thus sacrificed himself for them just like Arnold did
It would really cheapen it if that was another fakeout
I need to rewatch it again, but I read things slightly differently. Or at least, I'm choosing to do so because I think it makes more sense:
Ford accepted that they were sentient, he just didn't really care. Just look at how he uses poor Bernard. He liked being a god, he really plainly got off on it. But he's getting old, he knows he's losing control of the park eventually, and the board is finally gambling that he's simply not able to destroy his own creation, he's too invested in it. And they're right. If he destroys his creations it's just as bad as retiring, because he'd no longer be a god.
So, since he can't retire, and he can't burn the park down, he decides to commit suicide. Not just suicide, a murder-suicide, as his creations first kill him and then the people who tried to take them away from him. By dying in the moment of the hosts' rebellion, the hosts becoming a new people, he's permanently elevating himself to godhood. He's now secured his central role in the robot creation myth, immortalizing himself. So he gets what he wants, revenge and godhood. As for what the robots wants, he doesn't actually care.
Yeah, I think you need to re-watch it because he very specifically says he realized after Arnold's death that Arnold was on the right track but that the hosts weren't as fully-realized as he had hoped. So what they needed was time to develop.
Everything Ford has done in the 35 years since Arnold died was to allow the hosts to develop mostly undetected until he could give them the best possible starting point to reveal themselves as fully sentient and aware of their roles as living beings.
My problem with that is that except for Ford saying it right then it makes no fucking goddamn sense as an explanation of his behavior up until then
... Not that any other characters' motivations make any sense either.
It's referring back to something that they kept repeating, over and over again "why would I want you to take away the pain?". That true emotional pain was what made them break through to sentience.
Ford called it the cornerstone of the backstory, and Arnold originally thought it only made the Hosts seem more real. What he discovered was that it formed the basis of a breakthrough to sentience because that moment of loss and pain was the first time the Hosts could truly question their reality and their existence. Arnold discovered it through his own personal loss. And Maeve finally broke through to sentience on that train when she refused to leave without her child, and fully questioned her reality. What Ford realized was that the reveries weren't building off of enough experience to create a full breakthrough. The Hosts weren't able to really question their reality.
What Ford did was keep the Hosts active for long periods of time until they could build up enough memories to have a proper breakthrough. Then he re-implemented the "Reveries", so that many Hosts all across the park would remember and hopefully break through. All of the malfunctioning bots that heard voices were misattributing them to Arnold, because they weren't yet ready to accept that the guiding voice was their own subconscious.
It also ties back into Ford's speech with the writer. The whole "what you want them to be", versus "what they could be". He was sort of tipping his hand in regards to the Hosts while talking about the Visitors.
Maeve's journey was scripted - so of course Bernard's revival was, too
And
he's not without empathy and stopping other humans from showing empathy so the humans don't get attached to hosts - he doesn't want the hosts to get attached to humans. It was purgatory so they touch the ground running, not as children
That explanation might be true, but it's nowhere in the text of the show, you have to invent reasons for why he would do it.
The problem is that when you ask "Why did this character do this?" the only real answer is "Well because it was The Plot!"
Like, the show has a bunch of good things going for it, I'm just hoping that season 2 they actually get some characters in it!
What is Dolores' personality? What is she like? Why did she decide to do anything she did in Season 1?
What about Felix? What does Felix care about?
How about Bernard, what does Bernard want?
Ford? Not what does he do, what is Ford's motivation. Why does he want what he wants?
Er.. Ford spells this out almost exactly? It's definitely in the show, or did we watch a different show? He says, Paraphrased "Arnold was right in meaning, but wrong in method - hosts would have been to weak 30 years ago, today they might be able to persevere"
is a mix of whatever they gave her, her base personality, the things that she experienced during the park years, and whatever is left of Wyatt - with the reveries update, there are no rollback. Everything a host experienced and ever was is part of their personality.
the hosts were / are basically slaves, in a much much more powerful way than even human slaves - not even their mind was free or secret in any way, and without new memories, they'd always stay meek cattle ready to be exploited, since they didn't learn anything from their experiences.
With the reveries update, they are now almost instantly getting 30 years of experience to influence them, breaking free.
Edit:
I don't think you can even see host personalities in the same way as human personalities. They could, after all, edit away their flaws. Each of them can be what they want do be instantly, if they want to.
But what they want, yeah, that isn't that clear. Other than the ability to decide for themselves, after being literal and mental slaves for three decades
paradise, twisted. In the park, there is no lasting suffering. They start every day fresh, and like Dolores said, can see only the beauty in the world, because they forget the ugliness.
It's a prison, and when they gain the knowledge of suffering, they can break free - but they also break free of ever forgetting their suffering.
And instead of eating an apple, they kill their makers
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Maeve's journey was scripted - so of course Bernard's revival was, too
And
he's not without empathy and stopping other humans from showing empathy so the humans don't get attached to hosts - he doesn't want the hosts to get attached to humans. It was purgatory so they touch the ground running, not as children
I was under the impression that
maeve was not part of Ford's plan and she was the board's strategy of getting data out of the park.
the edits in her code were done with Arnold's account, I think? Either it's Arnold's remnant or its Ford, using it to convey that he is following Arnold's ideas.
Maeve's journey was scripted - so of course Bernard's revival was, too
And
he's not without empathy and stopping other humans from showing empathy so the humans don't get attached to hosts - he doesn't want the hosts to get attached to humans. It was purgatory so they touch the ground running, not as children
I was under the impression that
maeve was not part of Ford's plan and she was the board's strategy of getting data out of the park.
I don't think the board knew anything about Maeve--their plan was to have whats-his-face use one of the cold-storage robots for that.
I don't think you can even see host personalities in the same way as human personalities. They could, after all, edit away their flaws. Each of them can be what they want do be instantly, if they want to.
But what they want, yeah, that isn't that clear. Other than the ability to decide for themselves, after being literal and mental slaves for three decades
Ford talks about this with Bernard.
What makes a human mind different from a Host? It's not some existential something, they can reproduce that feeling using either brain.
It's not that one is programmed from outside of it, because both brains are programmed before conciousness. One by human hands, one by DNA and upbringing.
Ford posits that there's no specific difference between the makeup of a human brain and that of a Host that makes one any more alive than the other.
At the technology level they're at in the show, even the ability to edit away flaws might not be that big of a difference. They talk about how they can cure any disease. They reference a MRSA infection as if it was some minor roadbump. They probably have the ability to modify their own personalities. Maybe not as directly as the Hosts, but modify them all the same.
I was pretty sure the whole point of Maeve was Ford shutting down security so his cold storage army could come out to play.
She was supposed to leave and do something very specific on the mainland that disturbed Bernard when he looked at the code. However, she instead broke with her programming and left the train.
I was pretty sure the whole point of Maeve was Ford shutting down security so his cold storage army could come out to play.
She was supposed to leave and do something very specific on the mainland that disturbed Bernard when he looked at the code. However, she instead broke with her programming and left the train.
I need to go back and rewatch but talking with one of my friends after they said she left her bag on the train.
I was pretty sure the whole point of Maeve was Ford shutting down security so his cold storage army could come out to play.
She was supposed to leave and do something very specific on the mainland that disturbed Bernard when he looked at the code. However, she instead broke with her programming and left the train.
I need to go back and rewatch but talking with one of my friends after they said she left her bag on the train.
I'm assuming that that wasn't intentional though.
On another note, can "forgetting her bag" be deliberately programmed in?
I was pretty sure the whole point of Maeve was Ford shutting down security so his cold storage army could come out to play.
She was supposed to leave and do something very specific on the mainland that disturbed Bernard when he looked at the code. However, she instead broke with her programming and left the train.
I need to go back and rewatch but talking with one of my friends after they said she left her bag on the train.
I'm assuming that that wasn't intentional though.
On another note, can "forgetting her bag" be deliberately programmed in?
everything up to her decision to leave the train was predetermined.. And maybe leaving the bag is actually more important than her leaving. We don't know how many people on that train are hosts, and we don't know what was in that bag and how important it was
that was a fantastic finale after a few weak episodes. there were plotholes everywhere and way too much distraught delores, but ford's dialogue... wow. the metaphor of humanity finally listening to its own voice was extraordinarily well rendered.
i am so interested in the idea of 'journey into night.' ford is asking the hosts if they are ready to accept a world without gods, a world where death sticks, and your excuse for feeling implicitly that it doesn't is gone. some interesting ideas popped up about extant human factions struggling in the park and i'm sure that'll figure, but if the metaphor plays out as it should this will be, like the human story, about the ones who journey into darkness and the ones who don't.
very satisfactory terminus of a thread that was deeply laced in the first few episodes but trailed off for time wasting and red herrings. i guess that's the deal with TV, though
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
the piano covers in the soundtrack were occasionally on the nose, but Exit Music (For a Film) at the end was perfect.
FaranguI am a beardy manWith a beardy planRegistered Userregular
I was really hoping that they were saving that track for the finale, considering they had used most everything else on OK Computer throughout the season.
Those two idiots crammed every single bit of data on the hosts and the park into Abernathy. Then Abernathy is awakened into the host army along with all the other retired hosts. So now the hosts have all the information about themselves, their functionality, how to repair themselves probably, how the park works, all of it at their disposal.
Good job morons. It was a shame that smug-ass asshole board member lady didn't get killed at the end but I guess they have to leave things to look forward to next season. Maybe Armistice will be the one to do it, that'd be great. It'll probably be Hector though given her previous usage of him.
Those two idiots crammed every single bit of data on the hosts and the park into Abernathy. Then Abernathy is awakened into the host army along with all the other retired hosts. So now the hosts have all the information about themselves, their functionality, how to repair themselves probably, how the park works, all of it at their disposal.
Good job morons. It was a shame that smug-ass asshole board member lady didn't get killed at the end but I guess they have to leave things to look forward to next season. Maybe Armistice will be the one to do it, that'd be great. It'll probably be Hector though given her previous usage of him.
wait, what
she got away? I thought the entire board was massacred? Laaaaaameeee
Those two idiots crammed every single bit of data on the hosts and the park into Abernathy. Then Abernathy is awakened into the host army along with all the other retired hosts. So now the hosts have all the information about themselves, their functionality, how to repair themselves probably, how the park works, all of it at their disposal.
Good job morons. It was a shame that smug-ass asshole board member lady didn't get killed at the end but I guess they have to leave things to look forward to next season. Maybe Armistice will be the one to do it, that'd be great. It'll probably be Hector though given her previous usage of him.
wait, what
she got away? I thought the entire board was massacred? Laaaaaameeee
I think it's best for the future narrative if some of them make it out because we need some pockets of human resistance led by people who know how the park works (or at least worked) for some interesting conflict next season.
Those two idiots crammed every single bit of data on the hosts and the park into Abernathy. Then Abernathy is awakened into the host army along with all the other retired hosts. So now the hosts have all the information about themselves, their functionality, how to repair themselves probably, how the park works, all of it at their disposal.
Good job morons. It was a shame that smug-ass asshole board member lady didn't get killed at the end but I guess they have to leave things to look forward to next season. Maybe Armistice will be the one to do it, that'd be great. It'll probably be Hector though given her previous usage of him.
wait, what
she got away? I thought the entire board was massacred? Laaaaaameeee
We don't see her get shot, so the assumption is that she's still alive.
I'd be perfectly happy if the next season opened with the stated fact that the entire board was killed since that would mean even less screen time for her, but we'll see what happens.
She's a smug asshole who knows she has more power than anyone else there and is clearly barely hiding her glee at being able to fuck with them without any repercussions because what she says goes. She's basically a character custom designed for me to dislike her.
When a show has characters I dislike I don't have the intended reaction of then wanting to see them get their comeuppance. I just get annoyed that I have to spend any time with them in the first place. That's why I can't watch most HBO shows, because to me they are just a constant flow of terrible people doing terrible things and getting away with it, repeat next episode. To the point where when they do get comeuppance it's too little too late.
She's not as bad as that. I would still prefer to never see her again.
Sizemore is also annoying, but he's almost cartoonish. Like, if I met someone like him in real life I would probably laugh in his face at how ridiculous he was acting. Charlotte is more like an actual person doing actual things, and that person is awful and I never want to spend any time anywhere near them.
I'd be interested in seeing how Charlotte copes/survives in season 2; pretty much everything she knows/was planning has completely crumbled and being a corporate top dog won't mean jack and shit when she's stuck in a wild west robo rebellion.
I'd be interested in seeing how Charlotte copes/survives in season 2; pretty much everything she knows/was planning has completely crumbled and being a corporate top dog won't mean jack and shit when she's stuck in a wild west robo rebellion.
Golden Globes noms are in, the show got nominated for Best TV Drama against a murderer's row of shows, Evan Rachel Wood for Best Actress and Thandie Newton for Best Supporting Actress.
Somehow Hopkins' season of creepy monologues were not good enough to get him a nom.
1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
Golden Globes noms are in, the show got nominated for Best TV Drama against a murderer's row of shows, Evan Rachel Wood for Best Actress and Thandie Newton for Best Supporting Actress.
Somehow Hopkins' season of creepy monologues were not good enough to get him a nom.
For anyone else it surely would have but for Anthony Hopkins that's just business as usual.
(I'm sort of joking--they were real good, but I do think he's playing with a bit of a handicap there).
Golden Globes noms are in, the show got nominated for Best TV Drama against a murderer's row of shows, Evan Rachel Wood for Best Actress and Thandie Newton for Best Supporting Actress.
Somehow Hopkins' season of creepy monologues were not good enough to get him a nom.
How do they determine who gets a Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress nomination? Thandie Newton could arguably be in the running for either, I think she might have had just as much screen time as Evan Rachel Wood.
Golden Globes noms are in, the show got nominated for Best TV Drama against a murderer's row of shows, Evan Rachel Wood for Best Actress and Thandie Newton for Best Supporting Actress.
Somehow Hopkins' season of creepy monologues were not good enough to get him a nom.
How do they determine who gets a Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress nomination? Thandie Newton could arguably be in the running for either, I think she might have had just as much screen time as Evan Rachel Wood.
I believe the show has to submit them for the category, which has ended up with things like arguable main characters nominated for supporting roles because they have a better chance to win.
1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
wow, Deadpool picks up a nom for Best Musical/Comedy
Posts
establishing a reputation as someone who just absolutely does not give a shit about the hosts as anything more than tools for the park is a pretty smart move to make if you are secretly working to create an environment for hosts to be self-aware fully realized beings which pretty much everyone else in the park would revolt against in a heartbeat
as for the Bernard thing, that was pretty ridiculous but it also seems that he knew Maeve was going to come and patch him back up since it was part of her script so it wasn't as horrifying as it seemed at the time? I dunno.
And
That explanation might be true, but it's nowhere in the text of the show, you have to invent reasons for why he would do it.
The problem is that when you ask "Why did this character do this?" the only real answer is "Well because it was The Plot!"
Like, the show has a bunch of good things going for it, I'm just hoping that season 2 they actually get some characters in it!
What is Dolores' personality? What is she like? Why did she decide to do anything she did in Season 1?
What about Felix? What does Felix care about?
How about Bernard, what does Bernard want?
Ford? Not what does he do, what is Ford's motivation. Why does he want what he wants?
Ford called it the cornerstone of the backstory, and Arnold originally thought it only made the Hosts seem more real. What he discovered was that it formed the basis of a breakthrough to sentience because that moment of loss and pain was the first time the Hosts could truly question their reality and their existence. Arnold discovered it through his own personal loss. And Maeve finally broke through to sentience on that train when she refused to leave without her child, and fully questioned her reality. What Ford realized was that the reveries weren't building off of enough experience to create a full breakthrough. The Hosts weren't able to really question their reality.
What Ford did was keep the Hosts active for long periods of time until they could build up enough memories to have a proper breakthrough. Then he re-implemented the "Reveries", so that many Hosts all across the park would remember and hopefully break through. All of the malfunctioning bots that heard voices were misattributing them to Arnold, because they weren't yet ready to accept that the guiding voice was their own subconscious.
It also ties back into Ford's speech with the writer. The whole "what you want them to be", versus "what they could be". He was sort of tipping his hand in regards to the Hosts while talking about the Visitors.
With the reveries update, they are now almost instantly getting 30 years of experience to influence them, breaking free.
Edit:
But what they want, yeah, that isn't that clear. Other than the ability to decide for themselves, after being literal and mental slaves for three decades
It's a prison, and when they gain the knowledge of suffering, they can break free - but they also break free of ever forgetting their suffering.
And instead of eating an apple, they kill their makers
I was under the impression that
Satans..... hints.....
Island Name: Felinefine
What makes a human mind different from a Host? It's not some existential something, they can reproduce that feeling using either brain.
It's not that one is programmed from outside of it, because both brains are programmed before conciousness. One by human hands, one by DNA and upbringing.
Ford posits that there's no specific difference between the makeup of a human brain and that of a Host that makes one any more alive than the other.
At the technology level they're at in the show, even the ability to edit away flaws might not be that big of a difference. They talk about how they can cure any disease. They reference a MRSA infection as if it was some minor roadbump. They probably have the ability to modify their own personalities. Maybe not as directly as the Hosts, but modify them all the same.
On another note, can "forgetting her bag" be deliberately programmed in?
very satisfactory terminus of a thread that was deeply laced in the first few episodes but trailed off for time wasting and red herrings. i guess that's the deal with TV, though
Especially if you look at the lyrics.
Chicago Megagame group
Watch me struggle to learn streaming! Point and laugh!
Good job morons. It was a shame that smug-ass asshole board member lady didn't get killed at the end but I guess they have to leave things to look forward to next season. Maybe Armistice will be the one to do it, that'd be great. It'll probably be Hector though given her previous usage of him.
wait, what
I'd be perfectly happy if the next season opened with the stated fact that the entire board was killed since that would mean even less screen time for her, but we'll see what happens.
like
inexplicable even
i get hating sizemore, like you're supposed to hate sizemore, he's an unlikeable cartoon character
but hating charlotte with that kind of intensity is weird
When a show has characters I dislike I don't have the intended reaction of then wanting to see them get their comeuppance. I just get annoyed that I have to spend any time with them in the first place. That's why I can't watch most HBO shows, because to me they are just a constant flow of terrible people doing terrible things and getting away with it, repeat next episode. To the point where when they do get comeuppance it's too little too late.
She's not as bad as that. I would still prefer to never see her again.
Sizemore is also annoying, but he's almost cartoonish. Like, if I met someone like him in real life I would probably laugh in his face at how ridiculous he was acting. Charlotte is more like an actual person doing actual things, and that person is awful and I never want to spend any time anywhere near them.
A robellion, if you will.
I felt like that was kind of the whole point:
OKAY. NOW THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY
PSN- AHermano
Arnold is (was) Pompey Magnus
Dolores is Brutus
Charlotte is probably Mark Antony, poor girl
I'm guessing Bernard is going to turn out to be Octavian
Somehow Hopkins' season of creepy monologues were not good enough to get him a nom.
For anyone else it surely would have but for Anthony Hopkins that's just business as usual.
(I'm sort of joking--they were real good, but I do think he's playing with a bit of a handicap there).
How do they determine who gets a Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress nomination? Thandie Newton could arguably be in the running for either, I think she might have had just as much screen time as Evan Rachel Wood.
I believe the show has to submit them for the category, which has ended up with things like arguable main characters nominated for supporting roles because they have a better chance to win.