Yeah, she's putting out a call for more. Very indirectly stating places they might be (and therefore people who might have access to them without realizing it). Talking about all the different times, places, manners he might have submitted his returns as documentation for various purposes.
This is a dinner bell.
Like no. Anyone who has come in contact with Trump's taxes would remember them, especially now.Some liberal pundit talking about them wouldn't sudden refresh their long dormant memories. And if, if, that was her intention, then why overhype it so much with her first tweet?
I would love to live in a world where she can tweet that "We have trumps tax returns" -Actually have pages of his tax returns And it wouldn't be considered Overhyping but this is the America we live in.
But I agree that she should have chosen her words more carfully.
Yeah, I'm kinda having a hard time seeing what was overhyped about it? It was technically "breaking" (in that it was something they just received and on a story that has been languishing for a long time due to a dearth of information), it was a part of the tax returns (admittedly, it wasn't the whole tax return...but she didn't specify that they had the entire thing), it happened at 9pm EDT on MSNBC, and they actually did have the two pages (so it wasn't a joke). She even later specified the date and what form it was. I'm not seeing much hype from the tweet itself. All the hype I've seen is from people who projected their hype on it.
I don't think anyone is claiming to have an issue with the returns being featured themselves. That's perfectly fine and a solid part of the ongoing scandal that is the Trump WH
What is drawing umbrage is the fact that Maddow announced them with BREAKING: TRUMP TAX RETURNS TONIGHT! which is downright irresponsible. It is sacrificing a step in the ongoing fight against journalism for some headlines and ratings and was a horrible decision.
Except people keep comparing them to Capone's Vault and calling it nothing.
It wasn't nothing. It just wasn't the huge scandal people were expecting from the tweet.
Real Lesson: Twitter is terrible.
That wasn't an unfair expectation though
The tweet was clearly worded to generate the most buzz possible and seem like a giant smoking gun
Its why only after the initial attention happened they walked it back with clarification
It was irresponsible journalism at the very least and I expected more from Maddow
+8
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zllehsHiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered Userregular
I don't think anyone is claiming to have an issue with the returns being featured themselves. That's perfectly fine and a solid part of the ongoing scandal that is the Trump WH
What is drawing umbrage is the fact that Maddow announced them with BREAKING: TRUMP TAX RETURNS TONIGHT! which is downright irresponsible. It is sacrificing a step in the ongoing fight against journalism for some headlines and ratings and was a horrible decision.
THIS.
That being said we must all recognize what Maddow and people like her are.
MEGAPHONES
Real journalist work at the Washington post and The New York Times.
The Maddows O'rileys and Blitzers of the cable news landscape Just amplify the news real journalist report.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
That's how her show rolls? There's a monologue/backstory of something, go to first break, come back and interview expert(s) about said topic. then outro.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
I haven't seen it yet, but Maddow regularly does 25 minute segments that circle the issue extensively before delivering. Her format is the opposite of soundbite shows.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
That's the format of her show? She takes a relatively small story that she can tell in an interesting/funny way, uses it to lead into a bigger story, and then talks about it after a break.
EDIT: Multiply beated.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
you mean all of the new people who may have tuned in just to see his tax returns getting a news dump of all the investigative journalism that has happened thus far that more or less demands we need to see the tax returns?
Gee, I have no idea why she thought leading with his ties to Russian oligarchs or foriegn powers he has ties to through his cabinet, or banks that are laundering money for russia would be of value...
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Someone sent me a link to maddow live and it was some guy screaming "HES HIDING SOMETHING HE HAS TO BE THATS WHY HE WONT SHOW THEM" over and over and promptly turned it off.
I think people really wanted this to be her driving a stake in Trump on a random Tuesday night, and their disappointment that the incredibly unrealistic thing they wanted didn't happen is coloring their perception of events.
I think people really wanted this to be her driving a stake in Trump on a random Tuesday night, and their disappointment that the incredibly unrealistic thing they wanted didn't happen is coloring their perception of events.
A perception she gave us. She should have never tweeted it, never put up that countdown, and never had her fellow pundits hype for her. Rachel made this bed herself. If she had been clear from the beginning then no one would care.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
That's the format of her show? She takes a relatively small story that she can tell in an interesting/funny way, uses it to lead into a bigger story, and then talks about it after a break.
EDIT: Multiply beated.
It's also the format of sports radio. Keep 'me listening to the end is the goal, and it'll inevitably lead to some people feeling like they got strung along for an hour - because they were.
+4
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
That's the format of her show? She takes a relatively small story that she can tell in an interesting/funny way, uses it to lead into a bigger story, and then talks about it after a break.
EDIT: Multiply beated.
It's also the format of sports radio. Keep 'me listening to the end is the goal, and it'll inevitably lead to some people feeling like they got strung along for an hour - because they were.
Thats, like, super uncharitable.
Maddow is fantastic for context. She doesn't just report on the story, her team digs into the vaults and generally provides historical reference, a neat progression to the story of the day, and provides a story not just in the moment, but in the broader scope of why and how.
yeah she is a pundit, but she is also a nerd when it comes to the history of news and her team is one of the best in the business.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I think people really wanted this to be her driving a stake in Trump on a random Tuesday night, and their disappointment that the incredibly unrealistic thing they wanted didn't happen is coloring their perception of events.
A perception she gave us. She should have never tweeted it, never put up that countdown, and never had her fellow pundits hype for her. Rachel made this bed herself. If she had been clear from the beginning then no one would care.
I think people really wanted this to be her driving a stake in Trump on a random Tuesday night, and their disappointment that the incredibly unrealistic thing they wanted didn't happen is coloring their perception of events.
A perception she gave us. She should have never tweeted it, never put up that countdown, and never had her fellow pundits hype for her. Rachel made this bed herself. If she had been clear from the beginning then no one would care.
I'll watch in the morning to see what was up with the countdown. Otherwise, she was completely forthright Scott what they had, which was recently acquired Trump tax documents. She used it to talk about provable shady stuff that Trump has done, and his publicly known connections to Russian oligarchs.
For all the braying during the campaign about how no one actually tries to inform the public anymore, reactions like this make it pretty clear why that is.
I think people really wanted this to be her driving a stake in Trump on a random Tuesday night, and their disappointment that the incredibly unrealistic thing they wanted didn't happen is coloring their perception of events.
A perception she gave us. She should have never tweeted it, never put up that countdown, and never had her fellow pundits hype for her. Rachel made this bed herself. If she had been clear from the beginning then no one would care.
You wanted this to be the one thing that sinks Trump. If anything, by now you haven't learned that it won't take just one thing.
It didn't need to be a silver bullet.
However, given that modern tax returns have been sought after for 2 years now and are a major ongoing issue, it is absolutely not a projection to be very disappointed when "BREAKING. Trump Tax Returns tonight. (Seriously.)" turn out to be 2 pages of returns from 12 years ago.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
I haven't seen it yet, but Maddow regularly does 25 minute segments that circle the issue extensively before delivering. Her format is the opposite of soundbite shows.
she devoted her entire show to this
and it was worse than nothing, it bolster's everything trump has ever claimed
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
That's the format of her show? She takes a relatively small story that she can tell in an interesting/funny way, uses it to lead into a bigger story, and then talks about it after a break.
EDIT: Multiply beated.
It's also the format of sports radio. Keep 'me listening to the end is the goal, and it'll inevitably lead to some people feeling like they got strung along for an hour - because they were.
Thats, like, super uncharitable.
Maddow is fantastic for context. She doesn't just report on the story, her team digs into the vaults and generally provides historical reference, a neat progression to the story of the day, and provides a story not just in the moment, but in the broader scope of why and how.
yeah she is a pundit, but she is also a nerd when it comes to the history of news and her team is one of the best in the business.
Sports turds, meanwhile, say whatever shit keeps people on the hook. They aren't interested in clarity, just eyeballs listeners and people talking about them on...twitter. They try to take the ESPN model of 'embrace debate' and make it work on an audience that likes shouting at their steering wheel.
I think people really wanted this to be her driving a stake in Trump on a random Tuesday night, and their disappointment that the incredibly unrealistic thing they wanted didn't happen is coloring their perception of events.
A perception she gave us. She should have never tweeted it, never put up that countdown, and never had her fellow pundits hype for her. Rachel made this bed herself. If she had been clear from the beginning then no one would care.
You wanted this to be the one thing that sinks Trump. If anything, by now you haven't learned that it won't take just one thing.
No. I stick by what I said. She should have been clear. She shouldn't have had a countdown. She shouldn't have Hayes pull for her.
Both her tweets could have been reworded to say "I have two pages of Trump's 2005 tax return." She could have clarified in the beginning.
I know there's no silver bullet. Trump has walked in on little girls, cheated on his pregnant wife, and a whole bunch of heinous shit. Not once. Not once. Have I ever assumed there would be a silver bullet for Trump after the pussy tape. What I expected was a mountain not a molehill. Rachel wasted thirty minutes of my time for this bullshit and I will not be watching again. I wouldn't be surprised if many others do the same. Next time she has something, I'll just wait for WaPo or NYT instead of giving her the ratings.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
I haven't seen it yet, but Maddow regularly does 25 minute segments that circle the issue extensively before delivering. Her format is the opposite of soundbite shows.
she devoted her entire show to this
and it was worse than nothing, it bolster's everything trump has ever claimed
I've lost a bunch of faith in Maddow
Tax documents from Trump are still a big deal. She made no claims about what they showed. She STILL got an angry response from the white house before the segment even aired.
The idea that this somehow wasn't news is right up there with the single tweet (which I'm pretty sure they send out daily to say what's on the show that night) being too hype for public safety somehow.
I think people are overestimating how little Trump pays on his returns, comparatively speaking. He paid what, like 25%? That's slightly more than the last three presidents, IIRC.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I'm really struggling with the idea that a single tweet is "over hyping" this story.
What about the 30 minutes on air she spent hyping it up
I haven't seen it yet, but Maddow regularly does 25 minute segments that circle the issue extensively before delivering. Her format is the opposite of soundbite shows.
she devoted her entire show to this
and it was worse than nothing, it bolster's everything trump has ever claimed
I've lost a bunch of faith in Maddow
Tax documents from Trump are still a big deal. She made no claims about what they showed. She STILL got an angry response from the white house before the segment even aired.
Nordstrom's got an angry response from the Whitehouse. That's ridiculously low bar to crawl over.
The idea that this somehow wasn't news is right up there with the single tweet (which I'm pretty sure they send out daily to say what's on the show that night) being too hype for public safety somehow.
Is it news? Yes. Is it worthy of a countdown? No. She should have been clear.
The 2nd tweet said we have his 1040 form. Does the 1040 usually have more information? I didn't think it did.
It's the full form, but no supporting schedules. Which blows.
Which is why I'm wondering why people were expecting more documentation.
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
Again, I think the only real take away from these documents in and of themselves is what it implies about Trump's skills and/or net worth. He has claimed to be worth $10+ bn, but somehow only made 1.5% off of those assets. The average 90-day CD rate was 3.5% in 2005, and the average 12-month treasury yield was 3.6%. Either he is so incompetent as a business man that he can't generate as much money as parking it in various banks and not touching it, or he is worth 40% of what he claims (or less!).
Remember that portraying Romney as an the guy who pays less taxes then you and fires your dad was part of what sank him.
Hammering Trump on his taxes is never a bad thing.
What happened to Romney happened during the election. We are past that threshold.
We aren't past that threshold. There's just other factors at work. None of which give any reason why we shouldn't keep pushing the fact that Trump is a rich guy who pays almost nothing in taxes and has shady business dealings.
Trump's pussy-grab tape came out during the election too, should we not bother reporting the next person who comes forwards saying he assaulted them by this same logic?
I think people are overestimating how little Trump pays on his returns, comparatively speaking. He paid what, like 25%? That's slightly more than the last three presidents, IIRC.
Would have been about 3% without the AMT.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I think people are overestimating how little Trump pays on his returns, comparatively speaking. He paid what, like 25%? That's slightly more than the last three presidents, IIRC.
Would have been about 3% without the AMT.
Yeah, the AMT is doing its job there. The AMT rates are like 25% and 28% if I remember correctly. I've never seen anyone making that much money trigger AMT though, but hey, working as intended. Basically he gets no benefit from the NOL he claims on his income tax because it's an add-back under AMT.
He already had infinite "ammo".
Nothing changes. No grand finale is coming. You're going to have to strip his skin piece by piece until nothing is left.
Posts
Yeah, I'm kinda having a hard time seeing what was overhyped about it? It was technically "breaking" (in that it was something they just received and on a story that has been languishing for a long time due to a dearth of information), it was a part of the tax returns (admittedly, it wasn't the whole tax return...but she didn't specify that they had the entire thing), it happened at 9pm EDT on MSNBC, and they actually did have the two pages (so it wasn't a joke). She even later specified the date and what form it was. I'm not seeing much hype from the tweet itself. All the hype I've seen is from people who projected their hype on it.
EDIT -
The criticism was that she was overhyping it from tweet 1.
The tweet was clearly worded to generate the most buzz possible and seem like a giant smoking gun
Its why only after the initial attention happened they walked it back with clarification
It was irresponsible journalism at the very least and I expected more from Maddow
THIS.
That being said we must all recognize what Maddow and people like her are.
MEGAPHONES
Real journalist work at the Washington post and The New York Times.
The Maddows O'rileys and Blitzers of the cable news landscape Just amplify the news real journalist report.
That's how her show rolls? There's a monologue/backstory of something, go to first break, come back and interview expert(s) about said topic. then outro.
it was quite clear early on there was nothing big coming, I thought
I haven't seen it yet, but Maddow regularly does 25 minute segments that circle the issue extensively before delivering. Her format is the opposite of soundbite shows.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
If it was, like, 5 minutes I would give her the benefit of the doubt but that's just a blatantly transparent ratings grab.
That's the format of her show? She takes a relatively small story that she can tell in an interesting/funny way, uses it to lead into a bigger story, and then talks about it after a break.
EDIT: Multiply beated.
It's the full form, but no supporting schedules. Which blows.
Remember that portraying Romney as an the guy who pays less taxes then you and fires your dad was part of what sank him.
Hammering Trump on his taxes is never a bad thing.
Also what the fuck was up with that countdown? Why the fuck would you do that when it is fucking nothing?
Everything it touches turns to shit.
you mean all of the new people who may have tuned in just to see his tax returns getting a news dump of all the investigative journalism that has happened thus far that more or less demands we need to see the tax returns?
Gee, I have no idea why she thought leading with his ties to Russian oligarchs or foriegn powers he has ties to through his cabinet, or banks that are laundering money for russia would be of value...
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
A perception she gave us. She should have never tweeted it, never put up that countdown, and never had her fellow pundits hype for her. Rachel made this bed herself. If she had been clear from the beginning then no one would care.
It's also the format of sports radio. Keep 'me listening to the end is the goal, and it'll inevitably lead to some people feeling like they got strung along for an hour - because they were.
Thats, like, super uncharitable.
Maddow is fantastic for context. She doesn't just report on the story, her team digs into the vaults and generally provides historical reference, a neat progression to the story of the day, and provides a story not just in the moment, but in the broader scope of why and how.
yeah she is a pundit, but she is also a nerd when it comes to the history of news and her team is one of the best in the business.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
A perception you wanted to have.
You wanted this to be the one thing that sinks Trump. If anything, by now you haven't learned that it won't take just one thing.
I'll watch in the morning to see what was up with the countdown. Otherwise, she was completely forthright Scott what they had, which was recently acquired Trump tax documents. She used it to talk about provable shady stuff that Trump has done, and his publicly known connections to Russian oligarchs.
For all the braying during the campaign about how no one actually tries to inform the public anymore, reactions like this make it pretty clear why that is.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
However, given that modern tax returns have been sought after for 2 years now and are a major ongoing issue, it is absolutely not a projection to be very disappointed when "BREAKING. Trump Tax Returns tonight. (Seriously.)" turn out to be 2 pages of returns from 12 years ago.
It was a very misleading tweet.
she devoted her entire show to this
and it was worse than nothing, it bolster's everything trump has ever claimed
I've lost a bunch of faith in Maddow
Sports turds, meanwhile, say whatever shit keeps people on the hook. They aren't interested in clarity, just eyeballs listeners and people talking about them on...twitter. They try to take the ESPN model of 'embrace debate' and make it work on an audience that likes shouting at their steering wheel.
The internet overhyped it, if anything.
Hence why the comparison's to Al Capone's vault are overplayed. Geraldo hawked that one for some time before the opening.
No. I stick by what I said. She should have been clear. She shouldn't have had a countdown. She shouldn't have Hayes pull for her.
Both her tweets could have been reworded to say "I have two pages of Trump's 2005 tax return." She could have clarified in the beginning.
I know there's no silver bullet. Trump has walked in on little girls, cheated on his pregnant wife, and a whole bunch of heinous shit. Not once. Not once. Have I ever assumed there would be a silver bullet for Trump after the pussy tape. What I expected was a mountain not a molehill. Rachel wasted thirty minutes of my time for this bullshit and I will not be watching again. I wouldn't be surprised if many others do the same. Next time she has something, I'll just wait for WaPo or NYT instead of giving her the ratings.
Tax documents from Trump are still a big deal. She made no claims about what they showed. She STILL got an angry response from the white house before the segment even aired.
The idea that this somehow wasn't news is right up there with the single tweet (which I'm pretty sure they send out daily to say what's on the show that night) being too hype for public safety somehow.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Nordstrom's got an angry response from the Whitehouse. That's ridiculously low bar to crawl over.
Is it news? Yes. Is it worthy of a countdown? No. She should have been clear.
Which is why I'm wondering why people were expecting more documentation.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
so we need the long form tax return?
ayyyy
No, just give me Schedule C, Schedule E, and Schedule SE and then throw in the supporting statements
then i'll be happy
We aren't past that threshold. There's just other factors at work. None of which give any reason why we shouldn't keep pushing the fact that Trump is a rich guy who pays almost nothing in taxes and has shady business dealings.
Trump's pussy-grab tape came out during the election too, should we not bother reporting the next person who comes forwards saying he assaulted them by this same logic?
Would have been about 3% without the AMT.
Yeah, the AMT is doing its job there. The AMT rates are like 25% and 28% if I remember correctly. I've never seen anyone making that much money trigger AMT though, but hey, working as intended. Basically he gets no benefit from the NOL he claims on his income tax because it's an add-back under AMT.
Nothing changes. No grand finale is coming. You're going to have to strip his skin piece by piece until nothing is left.