Normal ending, with Mona dying? Thats too bad. It fit more with the games, but, you just feel like at the end of all that Max deserves some happiness.
Definitely something to keep an eye on.
I thought that was the point of the normal ending, though.
The whole story was a leadup to Max finally hitting rock bottom, losing everything he ever knew and thus getting an opportunity to finally escape his past (on account of every part of it being shot, you see).
Which is one reason I'm a little leery of another sequel. The end to Max Payne 2 just felt so right in every way.
As for the writing, the first game was a total sendup of noir-style metaphor, while the second toned down the purple prose and leveraged the tone to tell a much more involved and engaging narrative. The first was basically "guy shoots everyone while comparing sirens to lots of things," while the second dealt with the inevitable emotional trauma following Max's rampage. Yeah, some lines from the second were still kind of cheesy, but they worked in the context of the game, and there were plenty of better ones in the mix.
I loved the Max Payne games and I'm excited at the prospect of a third one, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm also feeling dread at the inevitable outcome. Max Payne 1 and 2 were fantastic and to give the sequel to some studio that has only produced mediocre games just seems irresponsible.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
There is a small but important difference between intentional satire and shit writing. Max Payne falls squarely in my opinion in the latter. And it is even more annoying when people defend it as having value as noir. For one thing, it's not noir. For another - saying it is a cliche does not excuse lazy writing and predictable narrative.
Furthermore, I have at no point said the game is bad. I thoroughly enjoyed both Max Payne games and await the next one with incredible levels of hype. But not because I give a flying fuck about the Max Payne character - I just want to shoot stuff. And this is not because 'I don't get it'.
No, you don't get it. You clearly, clearly don't get it. I'm sorry.
Oh well you convinced me. Nicely done.
Well, explaining it doesn't work, what do you want me to do? Go over the history of literature and then beat you over the head with a large rock until you stop being stupid? I don't think Superman could beat you enough for that, let alone a normal person.
There is a small but important difference between intentional satire and shit writing. Max Payne falls squarely in my opinion in the latter. And it is even more annoying when people defend it as having value as noir. For one thing, it's not noir. For another - saying it is a cliche does not excuse lazy writing and predictable narrative.
Furthermore, I have at no point said the game is bad. I thoroughly enjoyed both Max Payne games and await the next one with incredible levels of hype. But not because I give a flying fuck about the Max Payne character - I just want to shoot stuff. And this is not because 'I don't get it'.
No, you don't get it. You clearly, clearly don't get it. I'm sorry.
Oh well you convinced me. Nicely done.
Well, explaining it doesn't work, what do you want me to do? Go over the history of literature and then beat you over the head with a large rock until you stop being stupid? I don't think Superman could beat you enough for that, let alone a normal person.
Okay now that's going a little too far, I don't know this guy, totally blanking, who is he officer
There is a small but important difference between intentional satire and shit writing. Max Payne falls squarely in my opinion in the latter. And it is even more annoying when people defend it as having value as noir. For one thing, it's not noir. For another - saying it is a cliche does not excuse lazy writing and predictable narrative.
Furthermore, I have at no point said the game is bad. I thoroughly enjoyed both Max Payne games and await the next one with incredible levels of hype. But not because I give a flying fuck about the Max Payne character - I just want to shoot stuff. And this is not because 'I don't get it'.
No, you don't get it. You clearly, clearly don't get it. I'm sorry.
Oh well you convinced me. Nicely done.
Well, explaining it doesn't work, what do you want me to do? Go over the history of literature and then beat you over the head with a large rock until you stop being stupid? I don't think Superman could beat you enough for that, let alone a normal person.
Well your entire argument is essentially 'no u'. Suggesting that you are going to beat me over the head with the history of literature is a challenge that I willingly accept by the way.
In my argument, however, I have brought up not only the way in which it fails as satire by being overtly dark, but the fact that it is often misappropriated as noir or even film noir. Not that I have some crusade to defend noir or anything, itself a genre varying incredibly in content and tone, but to uphold the virtues of good narrative it is important to note that 'brooding detective with a dead family with a constant inner monologue' does not constitute noir, or good noir at least. The point being that when a narrative apes a classical genre, and fails, it has very little worth left on its own merits. See Just Cause or Kong or even many aspects of Mass Effect.
There is very little ambiguity in the characters, a hallmark of the genre. Their motives are extremely clear from the start, including the massively predictable repentance of Mona Sax, or the 'I'm going to betray my boss in the final act' evil baddie. Also, with such meaningless dialogue and literal dream sequences the game falls over itself to be dark and sinister and creepy. In my opinion at least this makes it a poor imitation of the art rather than a vanguard. Some lines feel like they are taken right out of terrible cutter poetry, while others, such as the self referential Dick Justice, are well done but still - pointing out the flaws in your own shit does not make it alright. And claiming you are being a satirical piece on the genre only counts when you execute on your ideas well. It is my contention that Max Payne does not.
I see it lacking any sense of subtlety, because it is an action movie with an action movie plot. The story itself is entirely predictable, and features an incredibly basic plot revolving around tired cliches of Russian Mafia power struggles and secretive organizations and guns for hire. Optional side missions in GTA4 had more depth. And I hated them. For example, Eurogamer called it
"a complete action game, a Die Hard gaming equivalent".
As for lazy writing, disregarding the two instances of the villain explaining his master scheme before he tries to kill you, dialogue is entirely too dry and ineffectual at conveying emotion or tone. No, this is not intentional. Apathy and remorse are not characterized by jilted voice work and lines such as "The sun went down with practiced bravado. Twilight crawled across the sky, laden with foreboding." He is telling here, not showing, hamstrung by the format of monologue work across still images. If you knew anything about literature you would know this is a poor way of conveying narrative. The sheer quantity of dialogue that directly tells you what should have been conveyed with conversation or direction is amazing.
"Vlad was one of those old time bad guys with honor and morals, which almost made him one of the good guys. None of us was a saint."
"The shadows rushed me, bruised mug-shot faces hungry for revenge. They knew my weak points and closed in for the kill. The floor turned into a vortex of green blood. I fell."
"The past is a gaping hole. You try to run from it, but the more you run, the deeper, more terrible it grows behind you, its edges yawning at your heels. Your only chance is to turn around and face it. But it's like looking down into the grave of your love, or kissing the mouth of a gun, a bullet trembling in its dark nest, ready to blow your head off."
I'm not suggesting that these tropes can't be used effectively, because they can, in all media and especially games. But the way in which they were implemented in Max Payne, particularly the second game, is really bad. Everyone shoots-it-up in a standoff at the end, interspersed with a lame boss fight, and there are no conclusions to be found. Narratively speaking it is all over the place. With characters thrown in for gameplay reasons, massive tonal changes between levels - not to mention a cavalcade of generic locations and a cutscene technique that changes radically the pacing of the game. A construction site. A tenement block. Another bunch of tenements. A parkade. While splattered with sparks of genius design, it feels pedestrian, repetitive, and the motives of the major players are too superficial. MY WIFE IS DEAD! I WANT REVENGE! contrasting with I WANT MORE POWER! or I'M A COLD UNFEELING HITMAN. Forgive me if I say that we have seen all of this before, done much better, elsewhere.
From 1up.com
"The easily defeated final boss and drivel of an ending may not adequately complete a piece of fiction that shouldn't have ever started the way it did, but they are not harmful enough to completely negate the worth of an otherwise stylish and polished action game."
It has style, sure, and a lot of this is owed to the excellent direction and graphics. The rest of it gets in the way. As the Penny Arcade strip on MP2 suggests, these introverted monologues are bullshit and a heavy tone and brooding voice can be applied to anything, no matter how ridiculous, and achieve the same vapid, superfluous ends. Even a glance at reviews has a constant trend, excellent game, hammy cheesy and inept plot that attempts greatness, and indeed enhances the game more than other games usually do, but still falls short. Though far be it for me to cherry pick reviews to fit my argument. Many reviewers said it has an excellent story, worthy of the big screen some said. Though again, that could easily be seen as a backhanded compliment. But the specificity of the complaints and their persistence paints a picture of a flawed game that appeals through action and shooting. Which I would agree with.
Again, great games. But not off the strength of the plot lines, which act merely as context for a series of excellent set piece gun battles - as all good game narratives should. I'd love to hear a rebuttal though, cause I care a lot about video game narrative.
Alternatively : LOL OPINIONS*
* Though at least I was capable of backing up my claims with at least some testimonial.
So you played through the games as fast as you could and missed tons of the story and now you are coming in here and acting like you have any right at all to judge it. Congratulations.
Your testimonials are snippets of game reviews for the game. Explaining the gameplay. I'm not really sure what to say to you. I'd tell you to play through the games again, if at all, but you would with a shit eating grin and muttering "HEH" every cutscene because you're that much intellectually superior to Lake. You go into the story expecting something serious, but it's not. Try to wrap your head around that. It's not serious, it's not trying to be. It's not pointing out how flawed the first game is in story with Dick Justice, it's making fun of it. There's nothing wrong with the first game's story because it was intentional.
Point out to me where I said I rushed through the games? I have played them many times, Max Payne 2 is still installed on my PC and has been without fail for a good 4 years now. I was still playing it when the Orange Box launched.
Point out to me where I said I rushed through the games? I have played them many times, Max Payne 2 is still installed on my PC and has been without fail for a good 4 years now. I was still playing it when the Orange Box launched.
It's implied when you say there's no subtlty or hidden motives or backstabbing. The games are full of that stuff, buddy.
Edit: And you say there are no conclusions to be found? Honestly, now. Try paying attention to the story before you insult it.
Oh Goomba. You are confusing ignorance of a narrative with an understanding of a weak plot.
Come on, address my points. Where is this bashing me over the head with the history of literature I was promised?
As for no conclusions - what is concluded? Mona loves Max? Already knew that from like day one. Not a conclusion or a climax. Vlad was behind the whole thing? Again, predictable. These conclusions are merely the natural 'wrapping up' of a plot. When I want conclusions, I want to take something meaningful away from the story. Not have my already pre-determined guesses actually vindicated. "Oh so Bruce Willis was a ghost after all. Ok..."
It's got the Scooby Doo problem. Too few characters, therefore too many predictable connections between them. It's hardly a whodunnit if the only possibilities for who dun it are two people.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
I said I would bash you over the head with a rock until you weren't stupid, then declared the impossibility of beating you that much for even Superman. No wonder you missed Max Payne's story by so much.
You say weak plot, I say that you need to pay more attention to the details of everything and get the "BUT IT'S NOT REALLY NOIR" stick out of your ass. ;-)
And you know, it's not obviously Vlad because there's the whole Inner Circle aside from three, four at most that are confirmed to be dead and you don't know that Vlad is even in the group until the end of the game. Play MP1. Then, immediately afterwards, play MP2. It'll probably still go over your head, but at least I tried.
Why does being sad make you grow a thick yet elegantly lengthened beard? Splinter Cell, Condemned 2 now MP3? Fuck that shit, Max Payne looks like Max Payne, he cant grow stubble hes carved out of fucking granite.
I don't care if it's bad noir or good noir or if it even is noir. It's overblown and over-the-top and that's the way I like it. At least, for Max Payne, not all my media. In the end though, the graphic novel cut-scenes and the pulp and the pseudo-noir is all just icing on top of the slow-motion cake diving through the air.
Goomba you are doing a terrible job of arguing your points even though Scarab is so obviously wrong.
This is a tremendous failure on your part.
Then why don't you do it? Jerk.
No don't wanna.
I will say that Scarab expects waaay too much out of video game writing though. He also does not consider that a game aping noir does not constitute good noir but can still competently tell a story even if it lacks ambiguity. While the characters' motivations might be transparent, the structure and pacing of the plot is remarkably competent for a video game.
The story is what makes them still really stand out. You can't just call a game Max Payne and expect everyone to be happy because we get a new Max Payne game. The series is so loved because it wasn't just about all the shooting.
The story is what makes them still really stand out. You can't just call a game Max Payne and expect everyone to be happy because we get a new Max Payne game. The series is so loved because it wasn't just about all the shooting.
This is for you Scarab. Read the section on problems with definition.
Noir is vague. It encompasses many genres and telling points.
Reguardless of whether or not you consider the writing in Max Payne to be good or not, your arguement that it is not noir falls flat, mainly by your trying to define noir.
Read that article first. Then reevaluate Max Payne. Seriously tell me WHY it is not noir.
As far as the quality of the narrative in Max Payne, it is subjective. As others have said it dips heavily into irony and into self referential humor. Its dialog and monologue is delivered in a heavily superfluous manner.
And Max's darkly poetic stylings are considered by most, quality cheese. To try and take it seriously is to miss the point.
And the beauty of it all, is that you can choose to ignore it at your discretion. You can take bits and pieces of it and derive entertainment from it, without taking in the whole package. But at the very least, no matter what you think of the whole package and its quality... there is a whole package to be had and enjoyed.
I hope you at least appreciate that. And please... get back to me on what you think noir is.
The story is what makes them still really stand out. You can't just call a game Max Payne and expect everyone to be happy because we get a new Max Payne game. The series is so loved because it wasn't just about all the shooting.
I agree. Max Payne was one of the few games where the elements (the gameplay, the narrative, the characters, the environment, the dialogue, etc.) came together to form something more than the sum of its parts. It's part of the reason why similar games in the genre could not repeat Max's critical reception or sales.
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
I thought MP2 was a great ending for the story. Judging by the picture on Page 1 I can't say I have high hopes for this one. That said, I think what would have been a good way to work in a new chapter would have been to do a prequel to MP or maybe something between the time of his family's death and the start of MP.
darklite_x on
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
Funny how even lots of the classic noir films, and the crime novels that they were often based on, were just considered trashy pulp by many in their own time - and now we have people complaining that Max Payne is shitty noir, when it really is made clear in the games that much of what they are doing is on purpose for a desired effect.
I don't know if I have a point other than sometimes it helps to take a step back and assume an author/creator is competent enough that there will be little that is unnecessary or extraneous, at least until you can prove otherwise.
Otherwise, I must say that I have my reservations about how this game is going to turn out, but if my foresight proves correct, we'll get a bearded, well-built Max wearing a t-shirt, aviator sunglasses, and boot-cut jeans riding a superbike down the pastel streets of Miami.
I thought MP2 was a great ending for the story. Judging by the picture on Page 1 I can't say I have high hopes for this one. That said, I think what would have been a good way to work in a new chapter would have been to do a prequel to MP or maybe something between the time of his family's death and the start of MP.
I always thought that they would add a twist where it turned out that Max killed his family after being drugged. They toyed with the idea in some of Max's hallucinations. There's nothing to say that it didn't go down like that, since everything is seen from Max's perspective.
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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
We should just really open a thread entitled "The_Scarab is going to dismantle everything you love because he feels the need to."
Take a chill pill and lighten the fuck up.
Both games garnering an 85 and an 89 on Metacritic, added to the fact that all the positive reviews lauded the story means I don't have to read your giant dissertation on being an asshole. (Lol opinions.)
We should just really open a thread entitled "The_Scarab is going to dismantle everything you love because he feels the need to."
Take a chill pill and lighten the fuck up.
Both games garnering an 85 and an 89 on Metacritic, added to the fact that all the positive reviews lauded the story means I don't have to read your giant dissertation on being an asshole. (Lol opinions.)
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Scarab you are being the kind of person who seriously criticises the emo clowns for not being sad enough.
You didn't get it. There was never anything concrete to get.
The games had a shitty, shitty story, with shitty, shitty writing. But they felt right and they got all the atmosphere right. These are all feelings, things you can't sit down and analyse and objectively compare.
It's fine for you to say "I didn't like the atmosphere" but don't even dream of trying logical objectivity on a game like this. It's a complete waste of everybodies time.
Get it now.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Posts
Max Payne as the next Tony Stark?
Fabulous
"Read twice, post once. It's almost like 'measure twice, cut once' only with reading." - MetaverseNomad
Now he's homeless and beats up other homeless people and also maybe cops in parks.
What is it with videogame characters getting beards in their sequels?
I thought that was the point of the normal ending, though.
Which is one reason I'm a little leery of another sequel. The end to Max Payne 2 just felt so right in every way.
As for the writing, the first game was a total sendup of noir-style metaphor, while the second toned down the purple prose and leveraged the tone to tell a much more involved and engaging narrative. The first was basically "guy shoots everyone while comparing sirens to lots of things," while the second dealt with the inevitable emotional trauma following Max's rampage. Yeah, some lines from the second were still kind of cheesy, but they worked in the context of the game, and there were plenty of better ones in the mix.
Dudes look cooler when they have beards
Fact
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
???
And that guy with the beard looks kind of sketchy, too.
Dudes look more dangerous when they have beards
Fact
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
This is like the second time in a week I've gotten to do this, Jack single-handedly kills any argument of beards being "badass" or "dangerous".
He's got a very undangerous face
It cancels out the beard
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
they are awesome in the most literal sense of the word
Okay now that's going a little too far, I don't know this guy, totally blanking, who is he officer
Well your entire argument is essentially 'no u'. Suggesting that you are going to beat me over the head with the history of literature is a challenge that I willingly accept by the way.
In my argument, however, I have brought up not only the way in which it fails as satire by being overtly dark, but the fact that it is often misappropriated as noir or even film noir. Not that I have some crusade to defend noir or anything, itself a genre varying incredibly in content and tone, but to uphold the virtues of good narrative it is important to note that 'brooding detective with a dead family with a constant inner monologue' does not constitute noir, or good noir at least. The point being that when a narrative apes a classical genre, and fails, it has very little worth left on its own merits. See Just Cause or Kong or even many aspects of Mass Effect.
There is very little ambiguity in the characters, a hallmark of the genre. Their motives are extremely clear from the start, including the massively predictable repentance of Mona Sax, or the 'I'm going to betray my boss in the final act' evil baddie. Also, with such meaningless dialogue and literal dream sequences the game falls over itself to be dark and sinister and creepy. In my opinion at least this makes it a poor imitation of the art rather than a vanguard. Some lines feel like they are taken right out of terrible cutter poetry, while others, such as the self referential Dick Justice, are well done but still - pointing out the flaws in your own shit does not make it alright. And claiming you are being a satirical piece on the genre only counts when you execute on your ideas well. It is my contention that Max Payne does not.
I see it lacking any sense of subtlety, because it is an action movie with an action movie plot. The story itself is entirely predictable, and features an incredibly basic plot revolving around tired cliches of Russian Mafia power struggles and secretive organizations and guns for hire. Optional side missions in GTA4 had more depth. And I hated them. For example, Eurogamer called it
As for lazy writing, disregarding the two instances of the villain explaining his master scheme before he tries to kill you, dialogue is entirely too dry and ineffectual at conveying emotion or tone. No, this is not intentional. Apathy and remorse are not characterized by jilted voice work and lines such as "The sun went down with practiced bravado. Twilight crawled across the sky, laden with foreboding." He is telling here, not showing, hamstrung by the format of monologue work across still images. If you knew anything about literature you would know this is a poor way of conveying narrative. The sheer quantity of dialogue that directly tells you what should have been conveyed with conversation or direction is amazing.
"Vlad was one of those old time bad guys with honor and morals, which almost made him one of the good guys. None of us was a saint."
"The shadows rushed me, bruised mug-shot faces hungry for revenge. They knew my weak points and closed in for the kill. The floor turned into a vortex of green blood. I fell."
"The past is a gaping hole. You try to run from it, but the more you run, the deeper, more terrible it grows behind you, its edges yawning at your heels. Your only chance is to turn around and face it. But it's like looking down into the grave of your love, or kissing the mouth of a gun, a bullet trembling in its dark nest, ready to blow your head off."
I'm not suggesting that these tropes can't be used effectively, because they can, in all media and especially games. But the way in which they were implemented in Max Payne, particularly the second game, is really bad. Everyone shoots-it-up in a standoff at the end, interspersed with a lame boss fight, and there are no conclusions to be found. Narratively speaking it is all over the place. With characters thrown in for gameplay reasons, massive tonal changes between levels - not to mention a cavalcade of generic locations and a cutscene technique that changes radically the pacing of the game. A construction site. A tenement block. Another bunch of tenements. A parkade. While splattered with sparks of genius design, it feels pedestrian, repetitive, and the motives of the major players are too superficial. MY WIFE IS DEAD! I WANT REVENGE! contrasting with I WANT MORE POWER! or I'M A COLD UNFEELING HITMAN. Forgive me if I say that we have seen all of this before, done much better, elsewhere.
From 1up.com It has style, sure, and a lot of this is owed to the excellent direction and graphics. The rest of it gets in the way. As the Penny Arcade strip on MP2 suggests, these introverted monologues are bullshit and a heavy tone and brooding voice can be applied to anything, no matter how ridiculous, and achieve the same vapid, superfluous ends. Even a glance at reviews has a constant trend, excellent game, hammy cheesy and inept plot that attempts greatness, and indeed enhances the game more than other games usually do, but still falls short. Though far be it for me to cherry pick reviews to fit my argument. Many reviewers said it has an excellent story, worthy of the big screen some said. Though again, that could easily be seen as a backhanded compliment.
But the specificity of the complaints and their persistence paints a picture of a flawed game that appeals through action and shooting. Which I would agree with.
Again, great games. But not off the strength of the plot lines, which act merely as context for a series of excellent set piece gun battles - as all good game narratives should. I'd love to hear a rebuttal though, cause I care a lot about video game narrative.
Alternatively : LOL OPINIONS*
* Though at least I was capable of backing up my claims with at least some testimonial.
Your testimonials are snippets of game reviews for the game. Explaining the gameplay. I'm not really sure what to say to you. I'd tell you to play through the games again, if at all, but you would with a shit eating grin and muttering "HEH" every cutscene because you're that much intellectually superior to Lake. You go into the story expecting something serious, but it's not. Try to wrap your head around that. It's not serious, it's not trying to be. It's not pointing out how flawed the first game is in story with Dick Justice, it's making fun of it. There's nothing wrong with the first game's story because it was intentional.
Edit: And you say there are no conclusions to be found? Honestly, now. Try paying attention to the story before you insult it.
Come on, address my points. Where is this bashing me over the head with the history of literature I was promised?
As for no conclusions - what is concluded? Mona loves Max? Already knew that from like day one. Not a conclusion or a climax. Vlad was behind the whole thing? Again, predictable. These conclusions are merely the natural 'wrapping up' of a plot. When I want conclusions, I want to take something meaningful away from the story. Not have my already pre-determined guesses actually vindicated. "Oh so Bruce Willis was a ghost after all. Ok..."
It's got the Scooby Doo problem. Too few characters, therefore too many predictable connections between them. It's hardly a whodunnit if the only possibilities for who dun it are two people.
I bet they did do it.
All night long.
You say weak plot, I say that you need to pay more attention to the details of everything and get the "BUT IT'S NOT REALLY NOIR" stick out of your ass. ;-)
And you know, it's not obviously Vlad because there's the whole Inner Circle aside from three, four at most that are confirmed to be dead and you don't know that Vlad is even in the group until the end of the game. Play MP1. Then, immediately afterwards, play MP2. It'll probably still go over your head, but at least I tried.
This is a tremendous failure on your part.
Also MP3 looks like it is going in a new direction while maintaining the direction the fans know and love. I embrace this innovation.
No don't wanna.
I will say that Scarab expects waaay too much out of video game writing though. He also does not consider that a game aping noir does not constitute good noir but can still competently tell a story even if it lacks ambiguity. While the characters' motivations might be transparent, the structure and pacing of the plot is remarkably competent for a video game.
Still, I hope this game is good. I don't expect it to be, but I can still hope. I'm good at hoping for lost causes.
Why not? It worked perfectly well for fallout
Max Payne 3 is actually DLC for GTA4.
This is for you Scarab. Read the section on problems with definition.
Noir is vague. It encompasses many genres and telling points.
Reguardless of whether or not you consider the writing in Max Payne to be good or not, your arguement that it is not noir falls flat, mainly by your trying to define noir.
Read that article first. Then reevaluate Max Payne. Seriously tell me WHY it is not noir.
As far as the quality of the narrative in Max Payne, it is subjective. As others have said it dips heavily into irony and into self referential humor. Its dialog and monologue is delivered in a heavily superfluous manner.
And Max's darkly poetic stylings are considered by most, quality cheese. To try and take it seriously is to miss the point.
And the beauty of it all, is that you can choose to ignore it at your discretion. You can take bits and pieces of it and derive entertainment from it, without taking in the whole package. But at the very least, no matter what you think of the whole package and its quality... there is a whole package to be had and enjoyed.
I hope you at least appreciate that. And please... get back to me on what you think noir is.
I don't know if I have a point other than sometimes it helps to take a step back and assume an author/creator is competent enough that there will be little that is unnecessary or extraneous, at least until you can prove otherwise.
Otherwise, I must say that I have my reservations about how this game is going to turn out, but if my foresight proves correct, we'll get a bearded, well-built Max wearing a t-shirt, aviator sunglasses, and boot-cut jeans riding a superbike down the pastel streets of Miami.
Take a chill pill and lighten the fuck up.
Both games garnering an 85 and an 89 on Metacritic, added to the fact that all the positive reviews lauded the story means I don't have to read your giant dissertation on being an asshole. (Lol opinions.)
Oh God, don't do this.
You didn't get it. There was never anything concrete to get.
The games had a shitty, shitty story, with shitty, shitty writing. But they felt right and they got all the atmosphere right. These are all feelings, things you can't sit down and analyse and objectively compare.
It's fine for you to say "I didn't like the atmosphere" but don't even dream of trying logical objectivity on a game like this. It's a complete waste of everybodies time.
Get it now.