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Myth: OOC Discussion

Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
edited July 2007 in Critical Failures
This thread is now for OOC discussions and debate about Myth. OOC notes and clarifications may be added where appropriate in the IC thread behind spoiler tags.

The Game

This is a free-form, in-character world designing project. Basically, each player takes on the role of a god, choosing a particular domain or portfolio with which to work. They then proceed to create and design a playable fantasy setting from the beginning on down.
Play itself is completely free form. Players may work whatever changes they like by making an IC post to that effect, subject to only one rule - don't be a dick. If you feel someone is being a dick (an OOC dick, not just an malevolent god), appeal to me and as referee I will sort things out.

Gameplay proceeds in phases, which essentially just describe what sort of actions will be taking place during that time. Phase 1 is world-building - construction of the cosmos on a basic level. There's no need for specifics - be epic. Phase two begins with the creation of the intelligent races, and from then on the game will focus slowly more and more on details and less and less on the gods, until by phase 5 we can roll up characters and play. See the phase guidelines in the other thread to get a clearer idea.

The original thread is here.

Aroused Bull on
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Posts

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    -SPI- wrote: »
    Precisely. I'd imagine the initial stage would be pretty freeform while later stages dealing with civilizations and so forth would be more like space myth or something.

    And while that's a good idea, I don't want it to be like SM where the players can't do major things to the narrative. Something I'd wanted to do in SpaceMyth that I never ever could have was destroy an entire system - because it's what the combine would do! But the rules wouldn't support it, it'd be overpowered, whatever.

    That is why I am wary of a system. Taking control out of the hands of the players can't be a good thing.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    So, is anyone not in favour of a free-form game with guidelines? Anybody who would prefer we use the points system, speak up now, or forever hold your peace.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Idly, I am reminded of (and you will all lol at me), RP on StarCraft.

    "Okay, what's the first rule?" "No massing."

    If "Don't Be A Dick" can fly on Battle.net of all places, it's nothing us Arcadians can't handle.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • TalonrazorTalonrazor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I really like SPI's ideas. I'd like to see that happen...

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  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I've updated the OPs to reflect what seems to be the preference of the thread. If anyone is still in favour of using rule sets, they can bring it up.

    The idea of distinct phases is probably the easiest way of keeping the game moving and ensuring everyone knows what's what. I think Spi's suggestions seem good: an age of creation in which the world is shaped and populated with plants and animals; an age of man in which the intelligent races are created and the players, as guiding gods, determine the growth and interaction of mortal domains on a grand scale; an age of myth in which some players can take on the role of great leaders and heroes alongside the gods and their avatars; and finally an age of history in which the gods play only an indirect role and the players control various historically significant mortal figures.

    Using those phases, the narrative would get gradually less vague as time went on. Each round could end when everyone is satisfied that they've done all they want, with an official proclamation from GM to clear up any confusion. We or I should write up some guidelines specifying the focus of each phase and what sort of things the players will be expected to be doing, so we don't get people creating mortal heroes in phase 1 or going dungeon crawling in phase 2.

    The goal of the original thread was to end up with a playable world, and I think that goal should be carried over here. As such, I'm for the races being human and humanoid - not elves and dwarves and hobbits, as such, but humanoid enough to relate to. I think actual humans in there somewhere would be a big plus, and if the other races end up being quite alien then I think humans alongside are absolutely essential. Obviously, though, if everybody else wants to create alien creatures, go ahead and create alien creatures - just so long as it's agreed on before the game begins.

  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I like the sound of these Phases, definitely a step in the right direction.

  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Me too. So: Multi-armed fish people, or humans & gnomes?

    Or (my preference) both?

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    Me too. So: Multi-armed fish people, or humans & gnomes?

    Or (my preference) both?

    My vote goes for Humans (definitely absolutely include standard, run-of-the-mill humans) and maybe other 'standard' fantasy races - at least humanoid-not-alien races.

    I have no love for multi-armed fish people as anything but monster races (which can be interesting!)

    I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if the only race was human.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • JacquesCousteauJacquesCousteau Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    This sounds awesome and I definetly want to be a part of it. Also, I think people should have as much freedom with races as (purportedly) the rest of the game. If someone really loves multi-armed fish people, then go for it, just as long as all the races can somehow intermingle (or at least reasonably co-exist).

    If this absolute freedom doesn't go over, then we could always just say: take any standard fantasy race and make it your own, or combine two or whatever.

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  • TalonrazorTalonrazor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    If it's only humans, that's boring and dumb. If we are creating a fantasy world, why can't we have imaginative races?

    I want a steampunk-style of multilegged duders!

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  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I wouldn't mind (and this is definitely something for Myth 3.0 -- I'm really on board with the current game as it is) having a system that transitions a bit more starkly.

    Phase 1 -> Collaborative deity world-building -- what we've been talking about here.
    Phase 2 -> Competitive Sentient Creature creating (a scrabble for dominance in the style of Space Myth -- but using the planetary geography/physics/ruleset hammered out in phase 1).
    Phase 3 -> Avatar play using the dominant races/political reality/economic system hammered out in phase 2.

    I think that could be a great final refinement -- for some point in the future.

  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'd like to keep it humanoid, just because the idea of a gigantic intelligent spider race seems t...

    Wait.

    I talked myself out of it, that sounds fun. I say let's welcome a wide variety of life. You know we'll end up with humans in there anyway.

  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if the only race was human.
    I'd agree with you if we were just talking about a setting, but multiple people creating a world will want to be more creative than that. Basically, I'd say that we should have humans as a major race, and any other races should be humanoid enough to be player characters without too much adjustment. There can always be some monstrous races in there as well, but as monsters rather than playable species.

    What about the lower animals? Dragons and weird creatures are almost inevitable, but what about bears and wolves? Will there be real-world creatures, or at least things similar to them?

    Saga: Last time we ended up with three varieties of six-legged fishy creatures.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    What about the lower animals? Dragons and weird creatures are almost inevitable, but what about bears and wolves? Will there be real-world creatures, or at least things similar to them?

    There should be. Those things are necessary, and unless someone really feels the need to build a completely alien ecosystem for an entire planet, there's really no reason to abandon these things.

    And re: Talonrazor and 'only humans is dumb and boring' - the only thing foreign races really add are different cultures, yes? Unless you really make use of different physical structures, there's no reason to have the good Northern Humans and the vile Yuan-ti instead of the good Northern Humans and the vile Southern Humans.

    Not that I'm saying Let's Disallow Other Races. They can be fun, and they can add to the setting, but let's not have ten-legged-tentacle-monkeys just because it's CREATIVE AND OUT THERE!

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • Grid SystemGrid System Registered User
    edited March 2007
    One thing to consider if things are done in stages is to kind of work it Greek myth style, where one set of gods controls each phase. You have the elder gods responsible for building the world, the middle gods supplant them and create the mortal inhabitants, and then the youngest gods push them out of the way and rule from on high.

  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I consider race variety to be pretty important. I actually liked that there were no humans in the last one, although I suppose it might hurt someone trying to run it as a D&D game or something.

  • TalonrazorTalonrazor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Nah, I pretty much think all humans are dumb and boring. ;)

    I agree with Scooter as well.

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  • AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Talonrazor wrote: »
    I want a steampunk-style of multilegged duders!

    This makes me want to make a race of solar/steam, humanoid, hermaphroditic, techno-organic constructs.

    Other races do contribute more than simply a different culture of humans. Their sexual reproductive organs alone can make for huge culture shifts that wouldn't make any sense with humans. Likewise something that eats a different kind of food, lets say igneous rock for example, would live in entirely different regions and build their society around entirely different actions than any human society could reasonably be expected to do. There are some cultures you simply cannot create with humans, they would make no sense and have no practical reason for being.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    AcidSerra wrote: »
    Talonrazor wrote: »
    I want a steampunk-style of multilegged duders!

    This makes me want to make a race of solar/steam, humanoid, hermaphroditic, techno-organic constructs.

    Other races do contribute more than simply a different culture of humans. Their sexual reproductive organs alone can make for huge culture shifts that wouldn't make any sense with humans. Likewise something that eats a different kind of food, lets say igneous rock for example, would live in entirely different regions and build their society around entirely different actions than any human society could reasonably be expected to do. There are some cultures you simply cannot create with humans, they would make no sense and have no practical reason for being.

    A race that would starve to death if they didn't carry around a ton of rocks with them everywhere wouldn't have any practical reason for being, either.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • AcidSerraAcidSerra Registered User
    edited March 2007
    AcidSerra wrote: »
    Talonrazor wrote: »
    I want a steampunk-style of multilegged duders!

    This makes me want to make a race of solar/steam, humanoid, hermaphroditic, techno-organic constructs.

    Other races do contribute more than simply a different culture of humans. Their sexual reproductive organs alone can make for huge culture shifts that wouldn't make any sense with humans. Likewise something that eats a different kind of food, lets say igneous rock for example, would live in entirely different regions and build their society around entirely different actions than any human society could reasonably be expected to do. There are some cultures you simply cannot create with humans, they would make no sense and have no practical reason for being.

    A race that would starve to death if they didn't carry around a ton of rocks with them everywhere wouldn't have any practical reason for being, either.

    If you assume that they are comparable in strength to the average human, perhaps. Their food bags would be heavier, but not terribly so, igneous rock is very porous so it's a lighter weight of rock. Being outside of the rest of the food chain they would in fact thrive more likely than die off because they have no competition for food supply.

    Having a farming technique, mining, that results in resources valuable for trade being found on a regular basis would make a strong foundation for a trading empire. Trade posts would keep the majority of the dead weight rock and travellers would only need what it took to get from pont a to point b. If they ran out of food in their pack it wouldn't be much different having to forage for rocks than for plants, your boned either way if there isn't anything edible in the area.

    Don't be so quick to assume something is impractical. When things are taken in moderation, what you see as a curse may be a great blessing.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    AcidSerra wrote: »
    AcidSerra wrote: »
    Talonrazor wrote: »
    I want a steampunk-style of multilegged duders!

    This makes me want to make a race of solar/steam, humanoid, hermaphroditic, techno-organic constructs.

    Other races do contribute more than simply a different culture of humans. Their sexual reproductive organs alone can make for huge culture shifts that wouldn't make any sense with humans. Likewise something that eats a different kind of food, lets say igneous rock for example, would live in entirely different regions and build their society around entirely different actions than any human society could reasonably be expected to do. There are some cultures you simply cannot create with humans, they would make no sense and have no practical reason for being.

    A race that would starve to death if they didn't carry around a ton of rocks with them everywhere wouldn't have any practical reason for being, either.

    If you assume that they are comparable in strength to the average human, perhaps. Their food bags would be heavier, but not terribly so, igneous rock is very porous so it's a lighter weight of rock. Being outside of the rest of the food chain they would in fact thrive more likely than die off because they have no competition for food supply.

    Except for, y'no, except by big fiery things, igneous rock isn't all that common. People can thrive when they travel 'cause they can live off the land - folks who only eat lava rocks only thrive around lava rocks.

    And having people who are strong enough to lug around tons of rocks on them puts them outside of the same playable league as humans.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think the point was that was just one example. Races add possibile variety you can't get with different cultures.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Scooter wrote: »
    I think the point was that was just one example. Races add possibile variety you can't get with different cultures.

    And if they do, it's good. My point was that adding in six-armed-tentacle-monkies just 'cuz is not a good reason to include a non-human race.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    One advantage of humans is that there is a vast amount of inspiration to draw upon for the design of different cultures within the race - you can modify and mix and match parts of historical cultures and new ideas of your own to produce many, many different and new and innovative cultures without too much work. You're unlikely to see near as much variety amongst a race of igneous rock eaters as you can work into human societies, even if the race itself is quite unique. They'd be better off existing alongside humans, not on their own, where the inter-race variety would offset their less developed internal variety.

    What about technology? Some people have mentioned steampunk. I definitely don't think we should see that kind of technology until phase 4.

  • Grid SystemGrid System Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Phase 4 at the earliest for steampunk style technology, but it'll all depend on the nature of the world created in the earlier stages. If we decide, say, that technology (and more specifically mechanical devices) require a "ghost in the machine" or god of machines to work, then without such a god, relatively high technology simply won't be possible.

  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    If everyone is satisfied with these guidelines, I'll begin the actual game thread.

    Guidelines


    If something isn't strictly according to the guidelines but the narrative would benefit from it, go ahead and do it. They're called "guidelines" for a reason.

    Phase 1 – Creation

    Birth of the gods, initial creation of the world. Any important paraphernalia – the sun, the stars, clouds, etc should be created during this phase. Plant and unintelligent animal life can start to be created now. The homes or servants of the gods may be created now or later. Continents and globally significant geographical features (like climate) can be vaguely described now or left unspecified.

    Phase 2 – Genesis

    Creation of the first intelligent and free-willed life. Racial characteristics, "gifts from the gods" or curses etc bestowed onto races.
    Races may be settled wherever, taught particular crafts or abilities, reared up in competition of each other and otherwise raised from primitives to advanced beings. Peoples may be influenced to settle particular areas, build particular settlements, go to war, or do anything else on a scale of nations, all at the behest of the gods.

    Phase 3 – Myth

    Gods create heroes out of individuals and guide these heroes. Specific beasts, monsters or demons might be created to ravish kingdoms. Wars and trade and suchlike take precedence over settlement and development. Nations as a whole can still be influenced and things still occur on a similar scale, but more focus is on the great heroes and rulers rather than the bodies of people, and some players might take on the role of heroes influencing events rather than gods.

    Phase 4 – Legend

    Players now all take on the roles of mortal heroes and rulers, and the gods have only an indirect role in affairs. Scale is more on the great affairs and endeavours of individuals rather than those of societies. Players create legends for future ages.

    Phase 5 – Age of Now

    Roll up some PCs and go adventuring.


    General Guidelines

    Vagueness and specifics
    Specifics should become more detailed as the phases progress. In general, things should be left vague at first, unless they are something on which a god lavishes special attention, to allow more wiggle room later.
    For example: In phase 1, gods might create specific animals and describe their features while leaving geography vaguely defined at best. By phase 2, it would be necessary to describe large scale geography ("I settle my people in a rocky place beneath the mountains, devoid of trees"), and by phase 3 we'd be into specifics for some areas ("The army met the enemy at a narrow mountain pass surrounded by hot springs")

    Moving godly cheese

    You can mess around with other gods' stuff, but keep it relevant to your own god – a sky deity would not send earthquakes, for example – and be sensitive to other players. Don't override people, but seek compromise. Where necessary, the judge will intervene to settle disputes.

    Picking domains
    Try not to be too specific when you're picking your domains. A god of wintergreen scented candles not only will rarely have anything to do inside of his or her domain, but will also have more difficulty relating other things he or she wants to do back to candles. Likewise, try not to be too far ranging and push out other players for choices, or seize multiple domains and try and affect everything at once.
    A narrow domain can be fine, so long as you aren't afraid to use it creatively. A god of sleep might seem useless, but you could put entire armies to sleep, send people visions in the night or make dreams flesh.

    Creating Races
    Typically, major races should be relatively humanoid – that is, humanoid to make into a player character. Actual humans will probably be created at some point, so bear them in mind as a point of comparison so as not to make other races too weak or powerful. Minor and "monstrous" races can be as non-humanoid as you like.

    All gods may create life of some sort, unless they choose to give up that right.

  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Anything critically missing or too restrictive, tell me.

  • ShamusShamus Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    This sounds..fun. I enjoyed the last one, tho' felt I dug myself into a hole. I'd like to try this again.

  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, sleep wasn't a very good choice of domain. This time around, try to pick something more flexible, but if you do end up with something of that sort, don't be afraid to use it - put entire nations to sleep, send people visions in their dreams, let loose nightmares to run around the real world.
    In fact, I'm putting that in the guidelines.

  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Sounds good. I'm all sorts of in.

  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yeah, me too. I missed the last one, but not this one!

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm liking the sound of it. Now I'm hoping the thread doesn't go up until some time while I'm at my computer (so my domain of choice is not nabbed :P )

    Let's keep this thread around as an OOC chatter, huh? The way we handled it last time worked pretty well, but if we keep the OOC chatter and the IC chatter seperate entirely, it might make it easier to keep track of things (although I suggest we stick with the bolding of the important parts.)

    Also, since the idea is to have everyone working together as players (although not necessarily as characters), figured I'd pitch this out there before I go gettin' all happity.

    What would thoughts be on the whole 'parallel plane' sort of thing? Something akin to say, the Emerald Dream of WarCraft, although less a-big-terrifying-natural-world and more like a parallel dreamscape? Might work for the deity I'm considering, but I won't bother if it'd be a waste of time/nobody likes the idea/it never gets used.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm liking the sound of it. Now I'm hoping the thread doesn't go up until some time while I'm at my computer (so my domain of choice is not nabbed :P )
    I'm the same. If you nab mine I'm going to pick the domain most appropriate to grief you for the duration of the game.

    Or, you know, I may do that anyway.

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SUPERSUGA wrote: »
    I'm liking the sound of it. Now I'm hoping the thread doesn't go up until some time while I'm at my computer (so my domain of choice is not nabbed :P )
    I'm the same. If you nab mine I'm going to pick the domain most appropriate to grief you for the duration of the game.

    Or, you know, I may do that anyway.

    Hell I'll put my first thought out there right away, because honestly, I have a serious doubt anyone else is gonna want to play a faerie god. :P

    And yes, that's my first thought. Cable, the Faerie Queen. Beyond that, I've considered bring Salt back, or using a Plant god.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well, I think we're safe, neither of my ideas trample on those :)

  • JacquesCousteauJacquesCousteau Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    With their not being any sentients to begin with, ideas like god of war or knowledge, etc. aren't really feasable are they? I'm just saying since that kind of thing is more my spin. I kind of also would like to play a night-god though (moon or darkness if I have to be less specific).

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  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    With their not being any sentients to begin with, ideas like god of war or knowledge, etc. aren't really feasable are they? I'm just saying since that kind of thing is more my spin. I kind of also would like to play a night-god though (moon or darkness if I have to be less specific).

    They might be feasible, they just wouldn't have much to do. They'd probably be more relevant in the phase 2 of things.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well with the phases system one could always switch around. You could be a primal earth god in the first round but then later leave that because you've made all the mountains and canyons you wanted to and "reroll" as a War god in the pantheon of the squid people or something.

    The phase system allows for far more flexibility and makes it easier for people to jump in and out of roles, not to mention people entering the game late.

    That's how I see it anyway.

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  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm debating whether I want to do a speed/travel god again or if that would be unoriginal of me.

  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    With their not being any sentients to begin with, ideas like god of war or knowledge, etc. aren't really feasable are they? I'm just saying since that kind of thing is more my spin. I kind of also would like to play a night-god though (moon or darkness if I have to be less specific).

    If, instead of a God of War, you went with a God of Violence, you'd have lots to do. You could run around making meteors and supernovae and whatnot in phase one, typhoons and earthquakes in phase two, and get down to the warring thereafter.

    Just a thought.

    P.S. INNS -- your God sounds like it could be cool. I promise not to try to poach it when you aren't looking.

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