Ok so AG Gaunts are completely disgusting, if you use them kill yourself.
They counter a falcon.
No, I'm not joking.
And quite good at it too. The falcon can't get the fuck away as it gets stuck and is only marginally faster in top speed (not turning and already on the move), doesn't do enough damage to get the gaunts down and the AG claws do decent vehicle damage.
Fucking gaunts.
edit: oh wait, no it isn't faster at all on top speed. They're the same. Fucking gaunts.
Oh, and the warlock's invincibility also lets him spam his abilities because it gives him very reduced cooldowns and huge energy regen. You know, like the one that cloaks all units around him, or any of the three AoEs he has.
Except the Warlock Armor is T3, 200 req 100 power and has to take damage to charge - regen bonus/cooldown only active when the ability is. It's on a recharge of 150 seconds (by which your damage charger probably won't even be filled for a fourth or third) so you can't spam it. It's a nice final show-down blob killer unit if you can use it, but in no means comparable to a cheap T2 spammable invuln shield every fight.
Cloaking units (armor) sips energy mad and is of course countered by you having a warrior brood out (I'm sure you can find the time to build one after the 5th AG horm orso). I'm not sure what the AoE line is doing there or the cloaking either, you can't spam the 3 of them or cloaking as you can only use 1 wargear class piece at a time.
Alegis on
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I love that ranged units like VC or BS get to fire when they get knocked back/down, though. That's so great. "Oh, you have this melee skill advantage? Well, it's not an advantage anymore!"
Dalzi, DoA and myself just played a ranked match so bad that it may well have ruined the whole game, for everyone, forever. It was one of those turning points in history, like the assassination of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand or Pearl Harbor. A game so terribad that it dug to Balrog-disturbing depths, flinging away shovel loads of human dignity with each thrust. People talk about the Mona Lisa, or Michelangelo's David as being masterpieces, but for such a zenith to exist there has to be an equally significant nadir toward which to plunge. Like a 500ft replica of the David, construction carelessly from still-warm feces. A disasterpiece if you will. This game was such a thing. A vicious assault on everything that is good and true and decent in the world. A trough from which there may ultimately be no way to ascend.
(Lictor: spam AG horms into fexes. Marine: spam scouts into predator. Marine: abuse Defend.)
Dalzi, DoA and myself just played a ranked match so bad that it may well have ruined the whole the game, for everyone, forever. It was one of those turning points in history, like the assassination of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand or Pearl Harbor. A game so terribad that it dug to Balrog-disturbing depths, flinging away shovel loads of human dignity with each thrust. People talk about the Mona Lisa, or Michelangelo's David as being masterpieces, but for such a zenith to exist there has to be an equally significant nadir toward which to plunge. Like a 500ft replica of the David, construction carelessly from still-warm feces. A disasterpiece if you will. This game was such a thing. A vicious assault on everything that is good and true and decent in the world. A trough from which there may ultimately be no way to ascend.
(Lictor: spam AG horms into fexes. Marine: spam scouts into predator. Marine: abuse Defend.)
Do you have a replay of this horrible horrible game so that we may all suffer?
Dalzi, DoA and myself just played a ranked match so bad that it may well have ruined the whole the game, for everyone, forever. It was one of those turning points in history, like the assassination of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand or Pearl Harbor. A game so terribad that it dug to Balrog-disturbing depths, flinging away shovel loads of human dignity with each thrust. People talk about the Mona Lisa, or Michelangelo's David as being masterpieces, but for such a zenith to exist there has to be an equally significant nadir toward which to plunge. Like a 500ft replica of the David, construction carelessly from still-warm feces. A disasterpiece if you will. This game was such a thing. A vicious assault on everything that is good and true and decent in the world. A trough from which there may ultimately be no way to ascend.
(Lictor: spam AG horms into fexes. Marine: spam scouts into predator. Marine: abuse Defend.)
What? You just now got one of those games?
No wonder everyone thought the game was fun while TEAM RAVENER saw it for what it truly was.
But seriously is scout spam actually effective? Ora re you sure it wasn't the AG HORMS with DEF-FUCKING-FEND THAT WORKS IN MELEE. At least it doesn't work with allied units, right?
Defend sure does work on allies. I mean, i stated in like 1.4.1 how incredibly powerful defend is... And yet now i play with the powersword if i go force commander.
AG horms with a supporting HT with improved synapse is so powerful that it doesn't matter if you have defend, it'll probably just act as a debuff since it lowers their speed. Lictor with HG spam is just... You don't need anything else.
I had a great encounter with a Tyrant today. He got 3 horms, naturally. I countered with an early dev squad. I actually managed to push him back. He tried using his Tyrant to charge in but I focused him down.
So I go near his gens, build a turret as a fall back point for my dev squads for when he got raveners.
So, apparently you can zerg turrets really easily and I didn't know that. Focused everything I had on the Raveners when they came out to attack my dev squad but they couldn't go down fast enough. I'm guessing it's really my fault for believing suppression teams would help me.
Ok, I guess. I just fall back. Cue horms and Raveners chasing my retreating units all the way back to my base. I lost my Tac squad and my devastator. Luckily I got a Razorback out and he wasn't prepared for it. But holy jesus christ.
I guess I could have placed mines and stuff to supplement my defenses... but I figured I was covering my bases pretty well.
I know nids catch most of the flak, but Ork sluggas are pretty dickheaded in the very early game as well. More so than hormagaunts pre AG, IMO.
Oh well. If anyone's up for a game, feel free to add me. I'll probably be online for a while.
Riddox on
Gamertag: Ridley 8
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Yeah, I mean, suppression teams are there to deal with how imbalanced melee spam is. And in the very same tier, there are the counter to suppression teams for both the melee spamming races. 3Horm/Rav or 3Slugga/Storm is the most common tactic I've seen.
Nids are sorta at the point that orks were in 1.32 in that they have a really strong T1 but their other tiers were lackluster and Nids dont have tanks to look forward too.
From what i've seen if nids can't dominate in T1 the rest of the game will be a steep uphill battle for them.
Nids are sorta at the point that orks were in 1.32 in that they have a really strong T1 but their other tiers were lackluster and Nids dont have tanks to look forward too.
From what i've seen if nids can't dominate in T1 the rest of the game will be a steep uphill battle for them.
What you have seen is apparently another game. Nids other tiers are fine. The Carni is essentially a tank venom broods are great AT, etc. Also orks in 1.32 had a lackluster tier 2 but a great tier 3 that more then made up for it.
From what i've seen if nids can't dominate in T1 the rest of the game will be a steep uphill battle for them.
That's less to do with the race and more to do with the Nid being too retarded to tie his own shoe, so when his race goes from "Super what the fuck is this, Relic?" t1 into "What the fuck is this, Relic" t2 and 3, it only gets worse for him.
Because if you can't dominate in t1 with Nids, there's no hope for you. Unless you're new, but then you're already on a dark path.
Yeah, I mean, suppression teams are there to deal with how imbalanced melee spam is. And in the very same tier, there are the counter to suppression teams for both the melee spamming races. 3Horm/Rav or 3Slugga/Storm is the most common tactic I've seen.
You don't even need to bother with Stormboyz. Stickbommas fill the same role and are useful against most other stuff as well. That's usually what I end up seeing anyway.
You guys are speaking some language I dont even know!
Put it this way, I love the game, and I really want to enjoy the multiplayer, but even after the major balance patch recently it's still heavily unbalanced, largely due to some weird design philosophies they have. Most notably the one that "melee beats ranged", which is really freaking useful when you're playing say, Space Marines and have no dedicated melee at all, and the anti-melee unit Relic decided on doesn't actually fill that role whatsoever.
I'm not going to even start on the other balance issues. I can still have fun with the multiplayer, but it gets more and more irritating the more you play.
They worked in DoW 1 because they didn't have teardown and melee wasn't an insta-fuckoff.
Like, They mashed CoH and DoW 1 together but they didn't really do a good job and the fact that they're all dead silent right after a major patch that still has obvious flaws (AG horms, tech marine beacon not working for allies), tells me that they probably patted themselves on the back and took a vacation for their months of hard work, including weekends, of playing Heroes of Newerth. "'atta boy, Relic, good work ignoring the major flaws and 'revamping' the game by making t1, the most unbalanced of all tees, last super long."
They worked in CoH because the game is much slower paced
That and there weren't melee units either. The whole gameplay dynamic's different, there are just so many different ways to counter them that they're pointless to invest in unless your opponent's already lost the tech race.
Relic thought that upping the damage on them and lowering the tear-down time would make them viable somehow, but those don't change anything because they're easily countered, and once they're countered they drop like flies, even if you retreat them before the enemy hits they'll usually get annihilated on the retreat because of the melee damage bonus. I've experimented enough to know. Melee beats all. Especially melee backed up by freaking Warlocks and their freaking Warp Throw.
Units phased through other units as they retreated, too, instead being the prime example of shitty pathing. "Oh, the enemy is right above you and there's a route that's just as quick back to your base that goes completely around them? Yeah, sure, you just run right into them. Thanks."
Oh, and tanks were more than just excuses to throw hard counters into a game. I guess it'd be hard to break the treds off a grav tank, but maybe that could be the single advantage of them, since they apparently can't fly over rippers. And the tanks left corpses.
Not even infantry leaves corpses anymore, what's that about? They had it in DoW 1, but somehow the technology was lost in DoW 2? Along with tank corpses?
I mean, besides retreating, it's not that bad since it was rushed, but it's been six months and all. Now we still have
6 maps, just done over again and again
fire prisms that screw up firing if you A. change target in the middle of it's long windup, B. lose sight of target, or C. change firing modes
melee that's still retardedly strong compared to equal ranged
tyranids as a whole
things like tankbustas killing tanks in one volley (barrage + normal attack)
stikkbombas with a grenade effective range longer than platforms
avatars that cost too much to be used effectively at all
shuriken platforms that are supposed to somehow be more useful than HBDs at 40 req and 40 DPS less (or an 90/10 less while not being AT or doing anything near the damage)
platforms that are still completely useless against anyone not functionally retarded
Techmarine's beacon that doesn't work for allies, and probably fuck knows how many things I've forgotten.
Oh yea, another thing is the brood nest does not reinforce for free anymore, I just tested it to make sure.
Although it does now allow allied units to reinforce at it too.
brood nests used to reinforce for free...? was there any catch to this?
I'm pretty sure it took two or three times as long to reinforce per member, and there was also the whole thing of *gaunts being the closest thing there was to cannon fodder for the most part.
Units phased through other units as they retreated, too, instead being the prime example of shitty pathing. "Oh, the enemy is right above you and there's a route that's just as quick back to your base that goes completely around them? Yeah, sure, you just run right into them. Thanks."
Oh, and tanks were more than just excuses to throw hard counters into a game. I guess it'd be hard to break the treds off a grav tank, but maybe that could be the single advantage of them, since they apparently can't fly over rippers. And the tanks left corpses.
Not even infantry leaves corpses anymore, what's that about? They had it in DoW 1, but somehow the technology was lost in DoW 2? Along with tank corpses?
I mean, besides retreating, it's not that bad since it was rushed, but it's been six months and all. Now we still have
6 maps, just done over again and again
fire prisms that screw up firing if you A. change target in the middle of it's long windup, B. lose sight of target, or C. change firing modes
melee that's still retardedly strong compared to equal ranged
tyranids as a whole
things like tankbustas killing tanks in one volley (barrage + normal attack)
stikkbombas with a grenade effective range longer than platforms
avatars that cost too much to be used effectively at all
shuriken platforms that are supposed to somehow be more useful than HBDs at 40 req and 40 DPS less (or an 90/10 less while not being AT or doing anything near the damage)
platforms that are still completely useless against anyone not functionally retarded
Techmarine's beacon that doesn't work for allies, and probably fuck knows how many things I've forgotten.
Posts
HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME KLYKATRON
It....did not?
MY voice get's distorted by Skype. And the only one who actually can complain is Phil, cause DAMN he sounds like a robot.
And quite good at it too. The falcon can't get the fuck away as it gets stuck and is only marginally faster in top speed (not turning and already on the move), doesn't do enough damage to get the gaunts down and the AG claws do decent vehicle damage.
Fucking gaunts.
edit: oh wait, no it isn't faster at all on top speed. They're the same. Fucking gaunts.
Except the Warlock Armor is T3, 200 req 100 power and has to take damage to charge - regen bonus/cooldown only active when the ability is. It's on a recharge of 150 seconds (by which your damage charger probably won't even be filled for a fourth or third) so you can't spam it. It's a nice final show-down blob killer unit if you can use it, but in no means comparable to a cheap T2 spammable invuln shield every fight.
Cloaking units (armor) sips energy mad and is of course countered by you having a warrior brood out (I'm sure you can find the time to build one after the 5th AG horm orso). I'm not sure what the AoE line is doing there or the cloaking either, you can't spam the 3 of them or cloaking as you can only use 1 wargear class piece at a time.
You know. Still.
I love that ranged units like VC or BS get to fire when they get knocked back/down, though. That's so great. "Oh, you have this melee skill advantage? Well, it's not an advantage anymore!"
(Lictor: spam AG horms into fexes. Marine: spam scouts into predator. Marine: abuse Defend.)
Do you have a replay of this horrible horrible game so that we may all suffer?
Steam ID : JustPlainEvil
WHY DID YOU PUT OTHER UNITS IN THE GAME RELIC!?!?!
No wonder everyone thought the game was fun while TEAM RAVENER saw it for what it truly was.
But seriously is scout spam actually effective? Ora re you sure it wasn't the AG HORMS with DEF-FUCKING-FEND THAT WORKS IN MELEE. At least it doesn't work with allied units, right?
I can't see anything obviously broken about that, Relic. Can you?
So, gee, AG horms are pretty overpowered. Maybe that should be looked at.
Seriously how did they even begin to think it was a good idea. I want to know how.
brood nests used to reinforce for free...? was there any catch to this?
On the black screen
I think the free reinforce from Lictor Alpha's pheremone cloud got removed as well.
So I go near his gens, build a turret as a fall back point for my dev squads for when he got raveners.
So, apparently you can zerg turrets really easily and I didn't know that. Focused everything I had on the Raveners when they came out to attack my dev squad but they couldn't go down fast enough. I'm guessing it's really my fault for believing suppression teams would help me.
Ok, I guess. I just fall back. Cue horms and Raveners chasing my retreating units all the way back to my base. I lost my Tac squad and my devastator. Luckily I got a Razorback out and he wasn't prepared for it. But holy jesus christ.
I guess I could have placed mines and stuff to supplement my defenses... but I figured I was covering my bases pretty well.
I know nids catch most of the flak, but Ork sluggas are pretty dickheaded in the very early game as well. More so than hormagaunts pre AG, IMO.
Oh well. If anyone's up for a game, feel free to add me. I'll probably be online for a while.
What's up with that?
From what i've seen if nids can't dominate in T1 the rest of the game will be a steep uphill battle for them.
What you have seen is apparently another game. Nids other tiers are fine. The Carni is essentially a tank venom broods are great AT, etc. Also orks in 1.32 had a lackluster tier 2 but a great tier 3 that more then made up for it.
Because if you can't dominate in t1 with Nids, there's no hope for you. Unless you're new, but then you're already on a dark path.
You don't even need to bother with Stormboyz. Stickbommas fill the same role and are useful against most other stuff as well. That's usually what I end up seeing anyway.
Except for Carnis...and VBs...and Zoans...
On the black screen
You guys are speaking some language I dont even know!
Put it this way, I love the game, and I really want to enjoy the multiplayer, but even after the major balance patch recently it's still heavily unbalanced, largely due to some weird design philosophies they have. Most notably the one that "melee beats ranged", which is really freaking useful when you're playing say, Space Marines and have no dedicated melee at all, and the anti-melee unit Relic decided on doesn't actually fill that role whatsoever.
I'm not going to even start on the other balance issues. I can still have fun with the multiplayer, but it gets more and more irritating the more you play.
They worked in CoH because the game is much slower paced
Like, They mashed CoH and DoW 1 together but they didn't really do a good job and the fact that they're all dead silent right after a major patch that still has obvious flaws (AG horms, tech marine beacon not working for allies), tells me that they probably patted themselves on the back and took a vacation for their months of hard work, including weekends, of playing Heroes of Newerth. "'atta boy, Relic, good work ignoring the major flaws and 'revamping' the game by making t1, the most unbalanced of all tees, last super long."
That and there weren't melee units either. The whole gameplay dynamic's different, there are just so many different ways to counter them that they're pointless to invest in unless your opponent's already lost the tech race.
Relic thought that upping the damage on them and lowering the tear-down time would make them viable somehow, but those don't change anything because they're easily countered, and once they're countered they drop like flies, even if you retreat them before the enemy hits they'll usually get annihilated on the retreat because of the melee damage bonus. I've experimented enough to know. Melee beats all. Especially melee backed up by freaking Warlocks and their freaking Warp Throw.
Oh, and tanks were more than just excuses to throw hard counters into a game. I guess it'd be hard to break the treds off a grav tank, but maybe that could be the single advantage of them, since they apparently can't fly over rippers. And the tanks left corpses.
Not even infantry leaves corpses anymore, what's that about? They had it in DoW 1, but somehow the technology was lost in DoW 2? Along with tank corpses?
I mean, besides retreating, it's not that bad since it was rushed, but it's been six months and all. Now we still have
I'm pretty sure it took two or three times as long to reinforce per member, and there was also the whole thing of *gaunts being the closest thing there was to cannon fodder for the most part.
Autocover is still in the game isn't it?