surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I level w over e simply because w + ult is an unbelievably brutal combo - far more so than ult + e. Not that one excludes the other, but the points in w reward you more imo.
Something I'll never understand is the way people just call abilities q, w, e, r instead of the name of the ability or at least something descriptive. For one thing, not everyone uses the same binds - but more than that, in order to make sense of it one has to have memorized every champion's skills and the sequence in which they are arranged. Certainly there must be people who have done this, but it can't be anywhere near the majority since I have to believe most people don't have all the champions unlocked.
"Ult" makes sense since everyone knows which of a champion's moves is their ult. But "W"? Unless I play a champion a lot I have no idea which of their moves sits in the second slot - and even then I sometimes have to think about it for a few seconds and look down at my keyboard to figure it out. Just seems like a weird and needlessly ineffective way to communicate when it only requires a few extra keypresses to type "heal/binding/pillar/wall/etc".
It doesn't really make me mad or anything, and I'm not picking on anybody since it's a very common thing people do with this game. I just find it really bizarre more than anything.
Well, yeah, you should have every champion's skills memorized. Barring that, they're listed in order in their descriptions.
They're also generally arranged in a certain way. Primary spam attacks are always q, for instance.
It came about because there are so many names folks stopped bothering with them, particularly when referring to builds. I can't recall what Ezreal's spells are called, but I know what his spells do.
I've played all the champions except like two of them and I know those two's abilities anyway, so if you tell me "so-and-so's Q" I'll more than likely know what you're talking about. It's just easier to remember than the actual ability names.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I like Kog maw. I think he's fantastic against a wide variety of mids.
But when things get to the teamfight phase and your fucking team doesn't make any effort at all to protect you it's just stupid. I spend all my time running away and/or dying. while 3 or 4 people on my team chase janna through fucking bushes.
Ranged carries in general are more team-dependent than most people realize. It's a little bit easier if you have some mobility (Tristana, Corki), but not much.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
One of my greatest problems with Kog'maw is that I am...stupid?
In that I will fire off his ult from a safe range, and accidentally double-click or something and then whoooooops kog'maw is trotting off towards the team fight when i wanted to hang back and snipe and then whooooops ded
Gragas absolutely MANHANDLED me in a solo 1v1 lane last night as Gangplank.
Can't harass him, he outdamages me and heals up easier.
Can't farm, he has 1200+ range barrels which are stupidly easy to hit for a skill shot (can't stay behind minions to mitigate like 90% of the other skill shots.
Can't gank him with your jungler, he is fat and has a blink on like a 6 second cooldown.
So broken still.
Gragas/Pantheon are still must ban or first pick choices.
Were you denying a melee/cannon every wave? Seems like you should have stayed pushed up to your tower and just farm there safely as Gangplank. Which also makes jungle ganks easier.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Were you denying a melee/cannon every wave? Seems like you should have stayed pushed up to your tower and just farm there safely as Gangplank. Which also makes jungle ganks easier.
Yep, was denying and shooting stuff like a boss. Barrel lets him farm from 100% safety and he is pretty much immune to ganks. He whittles me down with barrel and then uses R to push me away from tower and kill me.
It's really broken. They gave him way too many tools without any drawbacks. He's melee I guess so that's one drawback. Whatever, it's silly how good Gragas is.
Gragas absolutely MANHANDLED me in a solo 1v1 lane last night as Gangplank.
Can't harass him, he outdamages me and heals up easier.
Can't farm, he has 1200+ range barrels which are stupidly easy to hit for a skill shot (can't stay behind minions to mitigate like 90% of the other skill shots.
Can't gank him with your jungler, he is fat and has a blink on like a 6 second cooldown.
So broken still.
Gragas/Pantheon are still must ban or first pick choices.
:T
you were gangplank and you couldn't get 1 or 2 crits off of Gragas?
I mean I know Gragas is boss, but if you just bait his barrel and then run FORWARD (sometimes left or right depending on how good the gragas is) it's usually pretty easy to pop off a parrlay.
Gragas is tanky and all, but his soft squishy fatness of an exterior allows the parrrlay to penetrate his ass severely.
Hit me up on vent or something and I'll tell you how to beat him. I play both of those characters a lot.
Well, yeah, you should have every champion's skills memorized. Barring that, they're listed in order in their descriptions.
Knowing what they are and knowing intimately which button they're mapped to are very different things.
They're also generally arranged in a certain way. Primary spam attacks are always q, for instance.
It's not that consistent. For example, Sion's stun and Taric's stun are basically the same ability but one defaults to Q and one defaults to E. Using Taric again, his heal is Q while Nidalee's is E.
I can't recall what Ezreal's spells are called, but I know what his spells do.
That's kind of my point; what they do is descriptive. Where they are on the keyboard is less so.
I've played all the champions except like two of them and I know those two's abilities anyway, so if you tell me "so-and-so's Q" I'll more than likely know what you're talking about. It's just easier to remember than the actual ability names.
Okay, but it would be even more likely you'd know what the person was talking about if they used some descriptor even if it wasn't the official ability's name. If I make a post saying "Oh man Kayle's Q is so badass!" there are going to be people who know exactly which move that is, but there will also be people who either have to look it up or hunt in and around that post for some context which reveals which of Kayle's skills is Q. Sometimes that context will be apparent but sometimes it won't be. In this case, I actually don't know what Q is for Kayle, so I just looked it up. If my post was instead "Oh man Kayle's slow is so badass!", that's immediately understandable - and I would say strictly better from a communication standpoint, which is usually the goal of making a post.
Plus, it's just so much easier shorthand for explaining skill builds.
For instance, EWWQWR is so much easier to both type and understand than actually laying out the skill build with the names of the abilities.
Granted it's easier to type, and on a guide page where the skills are laid out I don't see a problem. I don't agree that it's easier to understand.
My theory right now is that it has to do with the way people are initially learning the skills. When I learn or think about a skill, I'm thinking about what it does. It's a stun, it's a shield, it's a nuke, it's a slow, it's a dash, etc. So those are the names I use in my head for those skills. My suspicion is that to a lot of people, the name of the skill is the letter of the bind. What to me is "Taric's stun" is to others "Taric's E", where "E" somehow is elevated to synonym status with the word "stun" in the person's mind, when paired with the word "Taric". It's kind of crazy to me but that's gotta be it.
Maybe the difference is background. I played a hell of a lot of World of Warcraft before playing this game, and in WoW spells are so numerous and people's bindings so different that it would be unthinkable to refer to them by keybind as opposed to by name or function.
One of my greatest problems with Kog'maw is that I am...stupid?
In that I will fire off his ult from a safe range, and accidentally double-click or something and then whoooooops kog'maw is trotting off towards the team fight when i wanted to hang back and snipe and then whooooops ded
I get 1 point in Malz's wall for hitting clumped up group fights, but even W's better for punishing clumped enemies. Rest goes into E > W.
Silence is nice but you'll rarely land it against a competent enemy without some kind of distraction.
This post is full of awful.
His Q does WAY more damage than W will ever do, even maxed out.
PLUS the Q silences EVERYONE clumped in a group fight. This is paramount to your team winning fights, not some puddle on the ground that barely does damage at all.
Literally the only time I put a point in W, is when I get my Rylai's and it slows people down while I'm retreating or chasing.
Learn to lead the Q directly behind them or in front of them AFTER you land your E void aids and you will be astonished at how much health they lose.
It doesn't take a dumb team to land it, you just need to approach it differently. The casting on it is SUPER fast, the trick is to just lead it slightly so they JUST start to run away after the E and hit it. Hint:k is Wait until you see or feel the enemy is going to retreat or chase and throw Q DIRECTLY in front or behind them. Think of his Q as a "bitch, please" ability. Once they try chasing or running and they get silenced, they just sit there like dumb butts and can't flash our do anything.
You might think W -> ult hurts, but try doing E (sometimes ignite too) -> ult, lead Q as they are running away and they are probably dead.
I've only been playing for about a week, and I understand that he's not a highly ranked character but, damn it, do I love playing Veigar. It does seem a bit slow to gear him up at the start, especially since he's so mana hungry, but once he has a respectable amount of AP, he just decimates minions with Dark Matter (W). Event Horizon (E) is also just great, I've used it plenty of times to save a team mate from being slaughtered or to catch someone trying to run away from a team fight. My best use of Event Horizon was using it right when the Nunu on our team used his ultimate with a couple enemy champions inside, watching them try to escape only to get stunned long enough for the channel to finish was awesome.
I still need to find the best progression for his gear, though. At the moment, I'll build a Tears of the Goddess first (for mana and mana regen), then I'll make the first piece towards the Deathfire Cinch(?), I think it's called the Fiendish Codex (for AP). Once I can start clearing minions very easily, I can farm cash for boots since Veigar is very slow moving. Eventually I end up with an Archmage's Staff (not on his recommended list, but I think it suits him pretty well), the Deathfire, Sorceror's Boots, and then I try to get this one item that's on his recommended list that's made with a Giant's Belt, but I can't remember what it's called. I haven't really memorized all the items yet, since I've only played for about a week.
I get 1 point in Malz's wall for hitting clumped up group fights, but even W's better for punishing clumped enemies. Rest goes into E > W.
Silence is nice but you'll rarely land it against a competent enemy without some kind of distraction.
This post is full of awful.
His Q does WAY more damage than W will ever do, even maxed out.
PLUS the Q silences EVERYONE clumped in a group fight. This is paramount to your team winning fights, not some puddle on the ground that barely does damage at all.
Literally the only time I put a point in W, is when I get my Rylai's and it slows people down while I'm retreating or chasing.
Learn to lead the Q directly behind them or in front of them AFTER you land your E void aids and you will be astonished at how much damage they lose.
It doesn't take a dumb team to land it, you just need to approach it differently. The casting on it is SUPER fast, the trick is to just lead it slightly so they JUST start to run away after the E and hit it. Hint:k is Wait until you see or feel the enemy is going to retreat or chase and throw Q DIRECTLY in front or behind them. Think of his Q as a "bitch, please" ability. Once they try chasing or running and they get silenced, they just sit there like dumb butts and can't flash our do anything.
You might think W -> ult hurts, but try doing E (sometimes ignite too) -> ult, lead Q as they are running away and they are probably dead.
R > E > Q > W
This post is full of awful. I personally prefer Q as well, but his W is one of the most damaging abilities in all of LOL if it runs it full duration. 45% of their max HP at 0 AP (before resists). It breaks even with Q at about 650 HP, which every level 9+ character in the game has more HP than that.
You've gotten to the correct result, but your methodology is broken.
This post is full of awful. I personally prefer Q as well, but his W is one of the most damaging abilities in all of LOL if it runs it full duration. 45% of their max HP at 0 AP (before resists). It breaks even with Q at about 650 HP, which every level 9+ character in the game has more HP than that.
You've gotten to the correct result, but your methodology is broken.
No I think your methodology is wrong.
Have you EVER landed your W and people stood in the puddle for 5 straight seconds? I don't think so.
Only time you will EVER get people in W all the way is with your R ultimate.
It is detrimental to your damage output to put ALL your points into W man.
That guy talked about "any competent person/team won't let Q land". Well tell me how the fuck you dodge/juke an instant cast that silences, but yet you don't see people just STROLLING out of your W puddle.
I mean it's like morganas puddle only less damage and no means to keep them in the puddle.
I stick by my story. E > Q > R >W
rakuenCallisto on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
This post is full of awful. I personally prefer Q as well, but his W is one of the most damaging abilities in all of LOL if it runs it full duration. 45% of their max HP at 0 AP (before resists). It breaks even with Q at about 650 HP, which every level 9+ character in the game has more HP than that.
You've gotten to the correct result, but your methodology is broken.
No I think your methodology is wrong.
Have you EVER landed your W and people stood in the puddle for 5 straight seconds? I don't think so.
Only time you will EVER get people in W all the way is with your R ultimate.
It is detrimental to your damage output to put ALL your points into W man.
That guy talked about "any competent person/team won't let Q land". Well tell me how the fuck you dodge/juke an instant cast that silences, but yet you don't see people just STROLLING out of your W puddle.
I mean it's like morganas puddle only less damage and no means to keep them in the puddle.
I stick by my story. E > Q > R >W
???
There's like a 1 second delay before it triggers after the big animation telegraphs it.
You'll never land that against people who know what they're doing unless it's a big confusing teamfight or a gank.
Also his w wins team fights paired with any kind of taunt or crowd control.
Stop being bad at Malz.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Yeah, I don't get a point in W until level 7 and even then it's only so I can ult people on it. It's nice to throw down sometimes, but unless people are somehow forced to stay on it, it's not going to do much damage.
I'm always R > E > Q > W. Although I get a point in Q first because that early silence can save your life.
Asiina on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Gragas is still a big issue, and Pants scaling doesn't matter all that much. He's still deadly.
See I don't feel like Gragas scales all that well, especially now that they removed the Locket and nerfed Visage. He's still a strong champion in the lane, but he doesn't bring much damage late game unless you build him full AP, and if you build him AP he can be bursted down pretty easily. Building him tanky makes him hard to kill (thankfully not endlessly so like it was with Locket), but then he doesn't bring much outside of his ultimate, which is now on a longer CD. He doesn't have any hard CC unlike true tanks, and he doesn't have much damage unlike most offtanks.
I think something we see a lot is people associating good in the laning phase strongly with being overpowered. That's part of a champion's value to the team, yes, but just part of it.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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getting off the full e+w+ult combo is just so tasty
starting off with a dfg is basically a dead champion
"Ult" makes sense since everyone knows which of a champion's moves is their ult. But "W"? Unless I play a champion a lot I have no idea which of their moves sits in the second slot - and even then I sometimes have to think about it for a few seconds and look down at my keyboard to figure it out. Just seems like a weird and needlessly ineffective way to communicate when it only requires a few extra keypresses to type "heal/binding/pillar/wall/etc".
It doesn't really make me mad or anything, and I'm not picking on anybody since it's a very common thing people do with this game. I just find it really bizarre more than anything.
They're also generally arranged in a certain way. Primary spam attacks are always q, for instance.
It came about because there are so many names folks stopped bothering with them, particularly when referring to builds. I can't recall what Ezreal's spells are called, but I know what his spells do.
For instance, EWWQWR is so much easier to both type and understand than actually laying out the skill build with the names of the abilities.
we cannot settle this difference amicably
A DUEL TO THE DEATH SIRRAH
by the way Im up for games with anybody at any point on my low level US account - my username is "Tiny Angry Crab", add me for fun tiems
Yes
In that I will fire off his ult from a safe range, and accidentally double-click or something and then whoooooops kog'maw is trotting off towards the team fight when i wanted to hang back and snipe and then whooooops ded
"Awwwwwww, he's so cuuuuute"
genius
Gragas absolutely MANHANDLED me in a solo 1v1 lane last night as Gangplank.
Can't harass him, he outdamages me and heals up easier.
Can't farm, he has 1200+ range barrels which are stupidly easy to hit for a skill shot (can't stay behind minions to mitigate like 90% of the other skill shots.
Can't gank him with your jungler, he is fat and has a blink on like a 6 second cooldown.
So broken still.
Gragas/Pantheon are still must ban or first pick choices.
Yep, was denying and shooting stuff like a boss. Barrel lets him farm from 100% safety and he is pretty much immune to ganks. He whittles me down with barrel and then uses R to push me away from tower and kill me.
It's really broken. They gave him way too many tools without any drawbacks. He's melee I guess so that's one drawback. Whatever, it's silly how good Gragas is.
you were gangplank and you couldn't get 1 or 2 crits off of Gragas?
I mean I know Gragas is boss, but if you just bait his barrel and then run FORWARD (sometimes left or right depending on how good the gragas is) it's usually pretty easy to pop off a parrlay.
Gragas is tanky and all, but his soft squishy fatness of an exterior allows the parrrlay to penetrate his ass severely.
Hit me up on vent or something and I'll tell you how to beat him. I play both of those characters a lot.
Knowing what they are and knowing intimately which button they're mapped to are very different things.
It's not that consistent. For example, Sion's stun and Taric's stun are basically the same ability but one defaults to Q and one defaults to E. Using Taric again, his heal is Q while Nidalee's is E.
That's kind of my point; what they do is descriptive. Where they are on the keyboard is less so.
Okay, but it would be even more likely you'd know what the person was talking about if they used some descriptor even if it wasn't the official ability's name. If I make a post saying "Oh man Kayle's Q is so badass!" there are going to be people who know exactly which move that is, but there will also be people who either have to look it up or hunt in and around that post for some context which reveals which of Kayle's skills is Q. Sometimes that context will be apparent but sometimes it won't be. In this case, I actually don't know what Q is for Kayle, so I just looked it up. If my post was instead "Oh man Kayle's slow is so badass!", that's immediately understandable - and I would say strictly better from a communication standpoint, which is usually the goal of making a post.
Granted it's easier to type, and on a guide page where the skills are laid out I don't see a problem. I don't agree that it's easier to understand.
My theory right now is that it has to do with the way people are initially learning the skills. When I learn or think about a skill, I'm thinking about what it does. It's a stun, it's a shield, it's a nuke, it's a slow, it's a dash, etc. So those are the names I use in my head for those skills. My suspicion is that to a lot of people, the name of the skill is the letter of the bind. What to me is "Taric's stun" is to others "Taric's E", where "E" somehow is elevated to synonym status with the word "stun" in the person's mind, when paired with the word "Taric". It's kind of crazy to me but that's gotta be it.
Maybe the difference is background. I played a hell of a lot of World of Warcraft before playing this game, and in WoW spells are so numerous and people's bindings so different that it would be unthinkable to refer to them by keybind as opposed to by name or function.
His Q does WAY more damage than W will ever do, even maxed out.
PLUS the Q silences EVERYONE clumped in a group fight. This is paramount to your team winning fights, not some puddle on the ground that barely does damage at all.
Literally the only time I put a point in W, is when I get my Rylai's and it slows people down while I'm retreating or chasing.
Learn to lead the Q directly behind them or in front of them AFTER you land your E void aids and you will be astonished at how much health they lose.
It doesn't take a dumb team to land it, you just need to approach it differently. The casting on it is SUPER fast, the trick is to just lead it slightly so they JUST start to run away after the E and hit it. Hint:k is Wait until you see or feel the enemy is going to retreat or chase and throw Q DIRECTLY in front or behind them. Think of his Q as a "bitch, please" ability. Once they try chasing or running and they get silenced, they just sit there like dumb butts and can't flash our do anything.
You might think W -> ult hurts, but try doing E (sometimes ignite too) -> ult, lead Q as they are running away and they are probably dead.
R > E > Q > W
I still need to find the best progression for his gear, though. At the moment, I'll build a Tears of the Goddess first (for mana and mana regen), then I'll make the first piece towards the Deathfire Cinch(?), I think it's called the Fiendish Codex (for AP). Once I can start clearing minions very easily, I can farm cash for boots since Veigar is very slow moving. Eventually I end up with an Archmage's Staff (not on his recommended list, but I think it suits him pretty well), the Deathfire, Sorceror's Boots, and then I try to get this one item that's on his recommended list that's made with a Giant's Belt, but I can't remember what it's called. I haven't really memorized all the items yet, since I've only played for about a week.
This post is full of awful. I personally prefer Q as well, but his W is one of the most damaging abilities in all of LOL if it runs it full duration. 45% of their max HP at 0 AP (before resists). It breaks even with Q at about 650 HP, which every level 9+ character in the game has more HP than that.
You've gotten to the correct result, but your methodology is broken.
anyone not asleep at the wheel will just run off of it.
Have you EVER landed your W and people stood in the puddle for 5 straight seconds? I don't think so.
Only time you will EVER get people in W all the way is with your R ultimate.
It is detrimental to your damage output to put ALL your points into W man.
That guy talked about "any competent person/team won't let Q land". Well tell me how the fuck you dodge/juke an instant cast that silences, but yet you don't see people just STROLLING out of your W puddle.
I mean it's like morganas puddle only less damage and no means to keep them in the puddle.
I stick by my story. E > Q > R >W
That's how you kill them
We need a void yordle
Maybe spaceman teemo can count
no dont say that i was excited about her!
They could be like Nunu and his brother but without the kinky incest fan fiction.
1546 wooo
It's just yordles now
So, Poppy and Tristana have a terrible disease that made them lose their fur or are female Yordles just blue?
-Oooooh. Now that's a Shen score to be proud of.
???
There's like a 1 second delay before it triggers after the big animation telegraphs it.
You'll never land that against people who know what they're doing unless it's a big confusing teamfight or a gank.
Also his w wins team fights paired with any kind of taunt or crowd control.
Stop being bad at Malz.
We need 5 void yordles. Also more ninja yordles. Void ninja yordles?
Vinjordles
Yeah, I don't get a point in W until level 7 and even then it's only so I can ult people on it. It's nice to throw down sometimes, but unless people are somehow forced to stay on it, it's not going to do much damage.
I'm always R > E > Q > W. Although I get a point in Q first because that early silence can save your life.
Urughurhgurhguhrguhr
I think something we see a lot is people associating good in the laning phase strongly with being overpowered. That's part of a champion's value to the team, yes, but just part of it.