Our Morde was stupid and kept running in the enemy jungle for no reason even when i said STAY WAY FROM THEIR JUNGLE and was basically feeding the whole game. I think he ended 2/14/5
Our Anivia was good, I was good (Zilean!), and our Ez was just so-so.
The other team was Udyr, Shen, Ashe, Sona, and Fiddle.
It went back and forth, but our stupid Morde (with the Ionian boots!) and stupid Malz ruined it for us. They kept targetting the tanks instead of their two dps people (Ashe and Fiddle).
Oh well, cant win them all! At least 3 people who know how to play are better than 0.
AND stupid top kept getting ganked every 2 minutes and I told thme to buy wards...of course they didnt and ganked ganked ganked ganked
Our Morde was stupid and kept running in the enemy jungle for no reason even when i said STAY WAY FROM THEIR JUNGLE and was basically feeding the whole game. I think he ended 2/14/5
Our Anivia was good, I was good (Zilean!), and our Ez was just so-so.
The other team was Udyr, Shen, Ashe, Sona, and Fiddle.
It went back and forth, but our stupid Morde (with the Ionian boots!) and stupid Malz ruined it for us. They kept targetting the tanks instead of their two dps people (Ashe and Fiddle).
Oh well, cant win them all! At least 3 people who know how to play are better than 0.
AND stupid top kept getting ganked every 2 minutes and I told thme to buy wards...of course they didnt and ganked ganked ganked ganked
I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I solo queue and I see that people aren't buying the wards they NEED (solo mid is against akali/twitch, top is getting jungle ganked, etc), I just bite the bullet buy the wards place them and tell them to thank me.
Can't rely on people to be smart, sometimes you have to be smart for them.
Sion is good, but he can't carry a team for the most part. I learned that the hard way.
AP Sion can't (though he's very strong on a good team). AD Sion can. Cleanse/Ghost + his ult and a decent quantity of AD/crit (Ghostblade/IE/PD being the ideal trifecta), and he will draintank everything while putting out superb dps.
yes, ad sion carries teams, depending on the other team, but he can't be the only dangerous thing on said team, or he will get raped in a hurry.
o, sorry, almost forgot. deathcap deathcaap, deathcap, op, lulz, deathcaps, insert op champ name, deathcap, broken.
as was just demonstrated in my recent game. 7-0-1 most of the game, team realizes I'm the only real threat on team, focuses me every team fight, wins. end up 9-3-something.
it's worse with ap sion. sion needs a good team for him to carry.
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
as was just demonstrated in my recent game. 7-0-1 most of the game, team realizes I'm the only real threat on team, focuses me every team fight, wins. end up 9-3-something.
Did you run cleanse? I find that tends to help bucketloads once the enemy team catches on.
yup, cleanse/ghost, 3300 hp, blown up every fight, even with ult up. didn't help that the rest of my team fed a teemo to 15 some stack of an occult. so i try taking out the nuidalee first, teemo would eat me, so I try diving on teemo, entire team jumps on me. rest of my team beats on shen for whatever reason. amumu ults after I die, ect.
I mean, if your team is atleast not completely brain dead, then you should be okay, but you can't carry a brain dead team, and thats what i got.
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
Get with the programme yourself. Focus the Sion when he pops shield and he loses all his damage. Every time we lost a teamfight to Sion I posted this (several times in some games) until the team started doing it. Likewise, when I played Sion, he was carry-material up until he started getting focused hard during shields.
And I haven't lost a game solo queuing since the patch, during which time the only Banksy characters I've played are three games of Sion (one pubstomp where anyone farmed could have carried, and two where the enemy team was fairly co-ordinated with their teamfights) and one game of Poppy (who is much more hilarious).
So yeah.
You aren't understanding.
When Sion fights, he runs in, stuns you, then blows up the shield and walks away.
That is all he does as AP and that's all he needs.
Stun -> Explode shield = dead, if not almost dead.
And by the way, "killing his shield" isn't so fucking easy when he had 650 AP and can decide to detonate it after you have hit it for 3 seconds.
Gragas gets nearly the same ratios and no one is complaining about gragas, not sure why.
Cause Gragas can't 2 shot people.
and I don't think he has the same ratios.
Also, Sion can go mejais/hat and it'll significantly increase his survivability, whereas Gragas, he'll die in like 4 hits.
But gragas can stay back and toss barrels, he doesn't have to get close to do damage.
Also I still can't start at red on Shaco, tried 21/0/9 and 11/0/19 might try some defensive stuff but I just can't start at red, or if I do I am so low mana and hp that there is no point. Everyone talks shit to me for starting at blue as Shaco, maybe it is my runes. I followed this guide online (that starts at red) with armor pen runes, cdr and mp/5. Maybe I need armor pen, crit dmg and crit chance.
But gragas can stay back and toss barrels, he doesn't have to get close to do damage.
Also I still can't start at red on Shaco, tried 21/0/9 and 11/0/19 might try some defensive stuff but I just can't start at red, or if I do I am so low mana and hp that there is no point. Everyone talks shit to me for starting at blue as Shaco, maybe it is my runes. I followed this guide online (that starts at red) with armor pen runes, cdr and mp/5. Maybe I need armor pen, crit dmg and crit chance.
Not sure if I understand, you mean like uninstalling the game?
ok guy you go and get a mejais/hat on gragas and see how much fun that is.
/headdesk. Yes, insta-lock into two carries to finalize the team when we don't have a tank.
Three ganks and a dragon kill in laning phase as WW before finding out these guys can't teamfight worth shit.
I need to start working with the stunners and taunters more. I'm having more success lately but having a good stun set up to get everything you need down then ulting as malzahar is such a nice feeling. Supression is such an awsome way to lock down enemy champs so your team can kill them.
Oop, you have 3500hp? my pool is doing 15% of that a tick and my ult is almost 1400. It actually makes focusing a tank feasible in certain situations, since some of them are doing crazy dmg these days anyways.
/headdesk. Yes, insta-lock into two carries to finalize the team when we don't have a tank.
Three ganks and a dragon kill in laning phase as WW before finding out these guys can't teamfight worth shit.
I had an awesome game where everyone one of us was a carry or Mage. Kassdin took mid, We had an akali, I can't remember who else but we destroyed the other team.
Gragas:
Barrel Roll=.9
Exploding Cask=1.0
Body Slam= like, .5 ap+something ad
Sion:
Stun: 1
Shield:1
They're putting out very similar amounts of damage...but Gragas's damage isn't in the form of a stun and a damage absorbing shield
Yeah, that detail is the important bit. Gragas won't always hit you with his spells (though his ult is incredibly easy to aim if you're just aiming for damage, of course) but unless you have a Banshee's then Sion's stun will always hit, and it's not particularly tricky to follow up that stun with a shield explosion.
/headdesk. Yes, insta-lock into two carries to finalize the team when we don't have a tank.
Three ganks and a dragon kill in laning phase as WW before finding out these guys can't teamfight worth shit.
I had an awesome game where everyone one of us was a carry or Mage. Kassdin took mid, We had an akali, I can't remember who else but we destroyed the other team.
I'm not saying it can't work. But it doesn't work if your team has the IQ of plankton.
Good AP Sion playing requires finesse, and a REAL tank on your team. You need to understand when to get in and to get out, how long to wait before charging (and popping) your shield, how to destroy BV's so that you can get your stun off in a useful manner, etc etc.
The thing about stealth counterjunglers that you're not understanding is that you're not competing against them. It is not at all the same thing as being ganked in the lane, where you have a chance to react, use abilities, positioning, etc to your advantage.
You don't interact with a dedicated counterjungler at all. You just find your creep camps gone throughout the game and fall farther and farther behind. If you do happen to run across the counterjungler (which is rare because they keep tabs on you and go where you aren't), they just finish one creep and stealth away laughing.
You can buy Oracle's, but that sets you even farther behind; you're already behind, and now you're even weaker in fights, which is a big deal because you need to stay alive or your Oracle's is gone.
If you've never been behind in the jungle, you probably wouldn't understand. It's crippling. Junglers already naturally fall farther behind the longer the game goes on, and when you throw in counterjungling, you're talking about always being the lowest level in the game by multiple levels. It's a really helpless feeling, and that's what destroys the fun.
And yes, I agree with what was said above that stealth is a broken mechanic in general. I don't think they're ever going to find a way to make it work and should just completely ditch or drastically re-work the mechanic. But that's a different discussion entirely.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
And yes, I agree with what was said above that stealth is a broken mechanic in general. I don't think they're ever going to find a way to make it work and should just completely ditch or drastically re-work the mechanic. But that's a different discussion entirely.
My problem with stealth is that, out of the gate, there just isn't a way to counter it. Or, not enough ways to counter it.
Yes, you can buy an oracle's elixir, but why isn't there an anti-stealth champion? Why the fuck doesn't all of Lux's moves reveal stealthed units in a radius around them?
That laser beam is a shit ton of light, and bitches be castin' shadows man
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Where as the barrel hits everyone everytime forever?
The chance of a barrel hitting someone increases as more enemies are involved in a fight. The chance of a shield hitting people decreases as more (competent) enemies are involved in a fight.
Yes, you can buy an oracle's elixir, but why isn't there an anti-stealth champion?
Aside from a pure anti-stealth champion being entirely niche, Nidalee and Corki especially, and Teemo and Caitlyn to a lesser extent, have anti-stealth mechanics.
Bethryn on
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Where as the barrel hits everyone everytime forever?
The chance of a barrel hitting someone increases as more enemies are involved in a fight. The chance of a shield hitting people decreases as more (competent) enemies are involved in a fight.
Depending on when you decide to join the fight as Sion.
It's like, that Sion that comes out of the bush ready to blow and stuns your carry or stuns or crowd control guy and then pops his shield before you can react is deadly as fuck.
I mean, Sion's usefulness just becomes about timing, yes, you can shut him the fuck down if you pop the shield early or just stun him and then pop it.
But I mean, now we're just doing useless theory crafting, because I can sit here all day and go "LOLOLOLOLOOL JUST USE FLASH AND THEN POP IT BEFORE ANYONE KNOWS WHATS UP"
And I'm sure you'll have a counter prepared, I'm just saying, for raw-damage output, give me AP-Sion over AP-Gragas any day, I'd rather have the stun and the shield over the Barrels.
But give me Fat-Gragas over anyone anyday too.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I mean, I'm not even necessarily saying Stealth is overpowered, I just really dislike the contortions it puts the gameplay through in order to try and make it balanced and counterable. Does anyone actually find buying Oracle's Elixir and Sight Wards fun? I sure as hell don't. It just feels like a chore. And I'm even more sure that people don't find it anymore fun having to constantly think about evading the stealth champion when they don't have wards/Oracles!
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I mean, I'm not even necessarily saying Stealth is overpowered, I just really dislike the contortions it puts the gameplay through in order to try and make it balanced and counterable. Does anyone actually find buying Oracle's Elixir and Sight Wards fun? I sure as hell don't. It just feels like a chore. And I'm even more sure that people don't find it anymore fun having to constantly think about evading the stealth champion when they don't have wards/Oracles!
Orem...I want you to play like, Kennen, get into a randomly selected match where you end up going mid against Twitch.
Or just laning against Twitch in general.
Then tell me buying Vision Wards isn't fun. Try to tell me that then.
Edit: And I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm just saying there needs to be more ways to counter it without spending money. As it is those ways are "Hope they walk over Caitlyn's, Nidalee's, or Teemo's traps"
But they just might not do that, they don't need to go through the sneaky ways other characters do(the places traps/shrooms are normally placed) because they can turn invisible and just not give a fuck.
Oh, it's fun when it's part of a 1v1 lane matchup, but that's not really what I'm talking about. When it's just like "wellp there's Eve ganking us, they have a 3v2 advantage, we better back up" that's not rewarding. When it's like "I don't have a vision ward yet and they have an Eve so I can't play aggressive AT ALL", that's not fun either.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
But I mean, now we're just doing useless theory crafting, because I can sit here all day and go "LOLOLOLOLOOL JUST USE FLASH AND THEN POP IT BEFORE ANYONE KNOWS WHATS UP"
Luckily my Annie has Bearstun up and Taric, TF, Shen and Udyr are ready to stun.
Regarding the whole wards business, it's good that they're starting to look at the whole warding thing. I'm not entirely sure why they think having wards take three hits is going to make it more balanced for melee to kill them instead of ranged, but whatever.
But at the moment, pink wards are horribly expensive (especially for their duration), and I think there should be some mid-tier ward that can be used to detect stealthed characters but not wards, and lasts close to if not exactly as long as green wards.
And Oracles is a horrible risk:reward item. If you're in a strong position and the enemy has a stealthed character and is warding a bit, it's a massive reward for minimal risk. Destroy their map awareness and one of their characters at once. On the other hand, if you're not doing so well, and are in the same position otherwise, it's a horrific risk:reward item.
Oh, it's fun when it's part of a 1v1 lane matchup, but that's not really what I'm talking about. When it's just like "wellp there's Eve ganking us, they have a 3v2 advantage, we better back up" that's not rewarding. When it's like "I don't have a vision ward yet and they have an Eve so I can't play aggressive AT ALL", that's not fun either.
Posts
Our Malz was no-where near team fights
Our Morde was stupid and kept running in the enemy jungle for no reason even when i said STAY WAY FROM THEIR JUNGLE and was basically feeding the whole game. I think he ended 2/14/5
Our Anivia was good, I was good (Zilean!), and our Ez was just so-so.
The other team was Udyr, Shen, Ashe, Sona, and Fiddle.
It went back and forth, but our stupid Morde (with the Ionian boots!) and stupid Malz ruined it for us. They kept targetting the tanks instead of their two dps people (Ashe and Fiddle).
Oh well, cant win them all! At least 3 people who know how to play are better than 0.
AND stupid top kept getting ganked every 2 minutes and I told thme to buy wards...of course they didnt and ganked ganked ganked ganked
I know it sounds ridiculous, but when I solo queue and I see that people aren't buying the wards they NEED (solo mid is against akali/twitch, top is getting jungle ganked, etc), I just bite the bullet buy the wards place them and tell them to thank me.
Can't rely on people to be smart, sometimes you have to be smart for them.
as was just demonstrated in my recent game. 7-0-1 most of the game, team realizes I'm the only real threat on team, focuses me every team fight, wins. end up 9-3-something.
it's worse with ap sion. sion needs a good team for him to carry.
I'm dead serious."
I mean, if your team is atleast not completely brain dead, then you should be okay, but you can't carry a brain dead team, and thats what i got.
I'm dead serious."
When Sion fights, he runs in, stuns you, then blows up the shield and walks away.
That is all he does as AP and that's all he needs.
Stun -> Explode shield = dead, if not almost dead.
And by the way, "killing his shield" isn't so fucking easy when he had 650 AP and can decide to detonate it after you have hit it for 3 seconds.
Fizban - because everyone has been dealing with OP Gragas' forever, but people are only now realizing the TERROR THAT IS SION.
and I don't think he has the same ratios.
Also, Sion can go mejais/hat and it'll significantly increase his survivability, whereas Gragas, he'll die in like 4 hits.
But gragas can stay back and toss barrels, he doesn't have to get close to do damage.
Also I still can't start at red on Shaco, tried 21/0/9 and 11/0/19 might try some defensive stuff but I just can't start at red, or if I do I am so low mana and hp that there is no point. Everyone talks shit to me for starting at blue as Shaco, maybe it is my runes. I followed this guide online (that starts at red) with armor pen runes, cdr and mp/5. Maybe I need armor pen, crit dmg and crit chance.
Not sure if I understand, you mean like uninstalling the game?
Three ganks and a dragon kill in laning phase as WW before finding out these guys can't teamfight worth shit.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Oop, you have 3500hp? my pool is doing 15% of that a tick and my ult is almost 1400. It actually makes focusing a tank feasible in certain situations, since some of them are doing crazy dmg these days anyways.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
I had an awesome game where everyone one of us was a carry or Mage. Kassdin took mid, We had an akali, I can't remember who else but we destroyed the other team.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
Gragas:
Barrel Roll=.9
Exploding Cask=1.0
Body Slam= like, .5 ap+something ad
Sion:
Stun: 1
Shield:1
They're putting out very similar amounts of damage...but Gragas's damage isn't in the form of a stun and a damage absorbing shield
I was in a 3-man premade and managed to get paired against someone on my friends list.
Poor bugger was playing kat, every team fight I save my taunt specifically for her ult. It wasn't pretty.
Also no deathcap's or Sion players to be seen that game, I was surprised.
That's like two nunu snowballs in a row. Seriously. Same ratio. And nunu can do two within 4 seconds. WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW
Yeah, that detail is the important bit. Gragas won't always hit you with his spells (though his ult is incredibly easy to aim if you're just aiming for damage, of course) but unless you have a Banshee's then Sion's stun will always hit, and it's not particularly tricky to follow up that stun with a shield explosion.
I'm not saying it can't work. But it doesn't work if your team has the IQ of plankton.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
TAIN'T SO EZ DUDES
Yeah I don't count the shield because it never gets off against a good team mid game or later.
You don't interact with a dedicated counterjungler at all. You just find your creep camps gone throughout the game and fall farther and farther behind. If you do happen to run across the counterjungler (which is rare because they keep tabs on you and go where you aren't), they just finish one creep and stealth away laughing.
You can buy Oracle's, but that sets you even farther behind; you're already behind, and now you're even weaker in fights, which is a big deal because you need to stay alive or your Oracle's is gone.
If you've never been behind in the jungle, you probably wouldn't understand. It's crippling. Junglers already naturally fall farther behind the longer the game goes on, and when you throw in counterjungling, you're talking about always being the lowest level in the game by multiple levels. It's a really helpless feeling, and that's what destroys the fun.
And yes, I agree with what was said above that stealth is a broken mechanic in general. I don't think they're ever going to find a way to make it work and should just completely ditch or drastically re-work the mechanic. But that's a different discussion entirely.
Where as the barrel hits everyone everytime forever?
I mean, if you don't count the shield, then you can't count barrel roll. It's just as easy to...you know, move around, as it is to focus Sion.
So then you have Exploding Cask/Body slam vs Like, the best single-target stun in the game.
I mean, everytime I hit someone with the barrel roll as Gragas, I feel like that person should be embarrassed.
My problem with stealth is that, out of the gate, there just isn't a way to counter it. Or, not enough ways to counter it.
Yes, you can buy an oracle's elixir, but why isn't there an anti-stealth champion? Why the fuck doesn't all of Lux's moves reveal stealthed units in a radius around them?
That laser beam is a shit ton of light, and bitches be castin' shadows man
Aside from a pure anti-stealth champion being entirely niche, Nidalee and Corki especially, and Teemo and Caitlyn to a lesser extent, have anti-stealth mechanics.
Tristana actually has scary AP ratios.
Like 1.5 on her ult and 2.0 on her DOT.
Depending on when you decide to join the fight as Sion.
It's like, that Sion that comes out of the bush ready to blow and stuns your carry or stuns or crowd control guy and then pops his shield before you can react is deadly as fuck.
I mean, Sion's usefulness just becomes about timing, yes, you can shut him the fuck down if you pop the shield early or just stun him and then pop it.
But I mean, now we're just doing useless theory crafting, because I can sit here all day and go "LOLOLOLOLOOL JUST USE FLASH AND THEN POP IT BEFORE ANYONE KNOWS WHATS UP"
And I'm sure you'll have a counter prepared, I'm just saying, for raw-damage output, give me AP-Sion over AP-Gragas any day, I'd rather have the stun and the shield over the Barrels.
But give me Fat-Gragas over anyone anyday too.
Giant laser beam of light>Whatever the fuck Twitch is doing.
Orem...I want you to play like, Kennen, get into a randomly selected match where you end up going mid against Twitch.
Or just laning against Twitch in general.
Then tell me buying Vision Wards isn't fun. Try to tell me that then.
Edit: And I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm just saying there needs to be more ways to counter it without spending money. As it is those ways are "Hope they walk over Caitlyn's, Nidalee's, or Teemo's traps"
But they just might not do that, they don't need to go through the sneaky ways other characters do(the places traps/shrooms are normally placed) because they can turn invisible and just not give a fuck.
He's great if the other team is dumb enough to play to his strengths and dead weight if they're not.
Regarding the whole wards business, it's good that they're starting to look at the whole warding thing. I'm not entirely sure why they think having wards take three hits is going to make it more balanced for melee to kill them instead of ranged, but whatever.
But at the moment, pink wards are horribly expensive (especially for their duration), and I think there should be some mid-tier ward that can be used to detect stealthed characters but not wards, and lasts close to if not exactly as long as green wards.
And Oracles is a horrible risk:reward item. If you're in a strong position and the enemy has a stealthed character and is warding a bit, it's a massive reward for minimal risk. Destroy their map awareness and one of their characters at once. On the other hand, if you're not doing so well, and are in the same position otherwise, it's a horrific risk:reward item.
That sounds fun to me. (I play eve :P)
Steam ID : JustPlainEvil