For some classes this is the case (assassination rogues for example don't care for expertise, combat rogues don't care for hit cap past yellow), however I think for the frost DK since you get RP from white swings, expertise is actually a decent stat.
For some classes this is the case (assassination rogues for example don't care for expertise, combat rogues don't care for hit cap past yellow), however I think for the frost DK since you get RP from white swings, expertise is actually a decent stat.
DW hit's goal is 600 rating, which is 5% like dranyth says.
If he's gemming haste over str, he IS doing it wrong, though. 1 str>every other stat. It should be Str > hit to cap> expertise to cap (26 for DW) and then Haste, mastery crit, I believe.
hahaha...ok, so, um...if I am reading this correctly I have a hit rating of 11% which is 1332.
I think I am pushing overkill, no? o_O
I think I need a complete overhaul....off to EJ's!
Shawnasee on
0
Options
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
DW hit's goal is 600 rating, which is 5% like dranyth says.
If he's gemming haste over str, he IS doing it wrong, though. 1 str>every other stat. It should be Str > hit to cap> expertise to cap (26 for DW) and then Haste, mastery crit, I believe.
hahaha...ok, so, um...if I am reading this correctly I have a hit rating of 11% which is 1332.
I think I am pushing overkill, no? o_O
I think I need a complete overhaul....off to EJ's!
If you are 2H anything you are 3% over the hard cap
My question: What badass DPS glyphs are you referring to? It seems like the Glyph designer for DKs was playing Blood.
Also, I have recently switched from Death Coil glyph to DnD glyph due to my frustration at DK AOE tanking. Good change on my part I think. I've considered specing into Imp Blood Boil for 5 mans. I can't stand idiots.
Not sure what your first question is regarding, but why did you ever have the Death Coil glyph as a tank? The prime glyph choices for blood are Death Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, and Death and Decay if you're more concerned with AoE than single target.
The question people are asking is: should you go over the recommendation for expertise to push dodge off the table against boss mobs. The answer has been simulated out:
No.
There is not enough of a gain to go over the recommended hit/exp cap. You get more dps for staying at the cap and using the item levels into other stats like haste, mastery, and crit.
The gain in white damage for dw by trying to hit the hard cap is overshadowed by the fact that most of your damage comes from yellow attacks. If you're thinking this much about stat priorities, I HIGHLY recommend reading the entire thread over at Elitist Jerks and not just the first post. There you will find nuanced discussions regarding these topics from people who are MUCH better at math that I am.
Err, are people actually wondering if you should go past 26 expertise? It seems pretty obvious that you should not, and this has been the case since 3.0.
My question: What badass DPS glyphs are you referring to? It seems like the Glyph designer for DKs was playing Blood.
Also, I have recently switched from Death Coil glyph to DnD glyph due to my frustration at DK AOE tanking. Good change on my part I think. I've considered specing into Imp Blood Boil for 5 mans. I can't stand idiots.
Not sure what your first question is regarding, but why did you ever have the Death Coil glyph as a tank? The prime glyph choices for blood are Death Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, and Death and Decay if you're more concerned with AoE than single target.
DS glyph isn't that good for tanking. DC glyph makes Lichborne a better cool down.
I was referring to a Frost DK's Major glyph choices in 4.2. They all suck.
I guess I didn't consider Lichborne healing, but I've never been troubled by not having the DC glyph. And no, none of the single target damage glyphs are really necessary for tanking, but none of the other choices are a big deal anyway.
AMS is still a good major for frost. I assume you have that. Other than that, I wouldn't know since I haven't been frost since early in Cata. Unholy is maxed out on useful major glyphs, which is why I can't use the DS one and am glad it's being nerfed into uselessness. I'm also afraid Raise Ally is going to be "fixed" by a major glyph instead of a base spell change and I'll have to make the decision between something useful and a non-liability battle rez.
Because I'm not using it but I feel bad about not using it because it's actually decent right now. Once it's shit, I can go back to being content with my 3 "mandatory" major glyphs and no other good options.
At least until they put the Raise Ally glyph back in as a major.
DW hit's goal is 600 rating, which is 5% like dranyth says.
If he's gemming haste over str, he IS doing it wrong, though. 1 str>every other stat. It should be Str > hit to cap> expertise to cap (26 for DW) and then Haste, mastery crit, I believe.
hahaha...ok, so, um...if I am reading this correctly I have a hit rating of 11% which is 1332.
I think I am pushing overkill, no? o_O
I think I need a complete overhaul....off to EJ's!
If you are 2H anything you are 3% over the hard cap
DW.
I think now, after reforging alot of my hit into haste, I am at 9% hit and I have 27 expertise, gemmed for strength and feeling much better.
I have a pair of green shoulders and enough JP to get some new ones but I am loathe to spend JP at this point for when the valor items can be bought with it.
But it's like a huge pimple on my head....it's always on my mind.
Since according to most we're at *least* a month out from 4.2... you may as well spend it. You'll easily be able to cap again well before it drops. Probably multiple times.
Dranyth on
0
Options
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I haven't played in awhile. Is it still the case that DW Frost > 2h Frost, and is frost still the stance to be in?
While DW sims higher than 2H, you'll find that in practice 2H is far more forgiving, and I believe almost all top players now are using 2H as it's less RNGy, better on movement intensive fights (i.e. almost all of them), etc.
Frost is being nerfed in a couple weeks, and I believe 2H frost is getting nerfed slightly more than DW, so really just play whichever you want or whichever you have better weapons for.
Frost is being nerfed in a couple weeks, and I believe 2H frost is getting nerfed slightly more than DW, so really just play whichever you want or whichever you have better weapons for.
Obliterate base damage has been reduced to 150% weapon damage, down from 160%.
Talent Specializations
Frost
Hungering Cold now has a 1.5-second cast time.
Might of the Frozen Wastes now increases two-handed weapon damage by 3/7/10%, down from 4/8/12%.
As I posted in the PvP thread, that's gotta be some sort of mistake. That's more than it was when it was originally nerfed. Sure, unholy is lackluster and trailing right now, but I don't see it getting a 15% strength buff. Isn't it already getting buffed in 4.2? I thought Rage of Rivendare or whatever increases your main strike damage was getting buffed.
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
forty on
0
Options
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
As I posted in the PvP thread, that's gotta be some sort of mistake. That's more than it was when it was originally nerfed. Sure, unholy is lackluster and trailing right now, but I don't see it getting a 15% strength buff. Isn't it already getting buffed in 4.2? I thought Rage of Rivendare or whatever increases your main strike damage was getting buffed.
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
I'd rather not have to rely on my pet for most of my damage.
Sims are showing unholy as the 2nd? best dps spec out of the gate assuming full 372 gear for 4.2. About 900 dps ahead of DW frost and 1.5ish of 2H Frost.
As I posted in the PvP thread, that's gotta be some sort of mistake. That's more than it was when it was originally nerfed. Sure, unholy is lackluster and trailing right now, but I don't see it getting a 15% strength buff. Isn't it already getting buffed in 4.2? I thought Rage of Rivendare or whatever increases your main strike damage was getting buffed.
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
I'd rather not have to rely on my pet for most of my damage.
Pets scaling with crit isn't going to suddenly take the ghoul + gargoyle from 30% of your damage to over 50%, FYI.
Edit: It would, at least, make all that unavoidable crit rating on gear be less of a crap stat for DKs -- one spec of them, anyway. I don't know what they could do to improve crit rating for frost without breaking things.
As I posted in the PvP thread, that's gotta be some sort of mistake. That's more than it was when it was originally nerfed. Sure, unholy is lackluster and trailing right now, but I don't see it getting a 15% strength buff. Isn't it already getting buffed in 4.2? I thought Rage of Rivendare or whatever increases your main strike damage was getting buffed.
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
I'd rather not have to rely on my pet for most of my damage.
I prefer not to get my hands dirtier than they already are.
So I am resubbing again likely tonight and will pick up my death knight first.
Unholy 2hander since the beginning, and for always.
And now apparently I can mutate my ghoul into a bigger, cooler ghoul?
As I posted in the PvP thread, that's gotta be some sort of mistake. That's more than it was when it was originally nerfed. Sure, unholy is lackluster and trailing right now, but I don't see it getting a 15% strength buff. Isn't it already getting buffed in 4.2? I thought Rage of Rivendare or whatever increases your main strike damage was getting buffed.
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
I'd rather not have to rely on my pet for most of my damage.
I prefer not to get my hands dirtier than they already are.
So I am resubbing again likely tonight and will pick up my death knight first.
Unholy 2hander since the beginning, and for always.
And now apparently I can mutate my ghoul into a bigger, cooler ghoul?
What?
Shawnasee on
0
Options
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
As I posted in the PvP thread, that's gotta be some sort of mistake. That's more than it was when it was originally nerfed. Sure, unholy is lackluster and trailing right now, but I don't see it getting a 15% strength buff. Isn't it already getting buffed in 4.2? I thought Rage of Rivendare or whatever increases your main strike damage was getting buffed.
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
I'd rather not have to rely on my pet for most of my damage.
I prefer not to get my hands dirtier than they already are.
So I am resubbing again likely tonight and will pick up my death knight first.
Unholy 2hander since the beginning, and for always.
And now apparently I can mutate my ghoul into a bigger, cooler ghoul?
What?
Dark Transformation is an ability that you should spec into as Unholy.
Posts
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
Most melee classes go:
Primary Stat > Hit to 8% cap > Expertise to cap > other shit.
Expertise is pretty much always a decent stat for every melee DPS. It's not any more or less special for 2h frost.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
hahaha...ok, so, um...if I am reading this correctly I have a hit rating of 11% which is 1332.
I think I am pushing overkill, no? o_O
I think I need a complete overhaul....off to EJ's!
If you are 2H anything you are 3% over the hard cap
No.
There is not enough of a gain to go over the recommended hit/exp cap. You get more dps for staying at the cap and using the item levels into other stats like haste, mastery, and crit.
The gain in white damage for dw by trying to hit the hard cap is overshadowed by the fact that most of your damage comes from yellow attacks. If you're thinking this much about stat priorities, I HIGHLY recommend reading the entire thread over at Elitist Jerks and not just the first post. There you will find nuanced discussions regarding these topics from people who are MUCH better at math that I am.
DS glyph isn't that good for tanking. DC glyph makes Lichborne a better cool down.
I was referring to a Frost DK's Major glyph choices in 4.2. They all suck.
AMS is still a good major for frost. I assume you have that. Other than that, I wouldn't know since I haven't been frost since early in Cata. Unholy is maxed out on useful major glyphs, which is why I can't use the DS one and am glad it's being nerfed into uselessness. I'm also afraid Raise Ally is going to be "fixed" by a major glyph instead of a base spell change and I'll have to make the decision between something useful and a non-liability battle rez.
As it is now, it's a rehash of Victory Rush and Crusader. Why was it so bad that DK's had a different healing mechanic?
DS spamming had its own drawbacks, namely the terrible dps loss for even using one in your cycle, so I'm not sure why they felt the need to change it.
What's next, HB is now a whirlwind clone?
At least until they put the Raise Ally glyph back in as a major.
DW.
I think now, after reforging alot of my hit into haste, I am at 9% hit and I have 27 expertise, gemmed for strength and feeling much better.
I have a pair of green shoulders and enough JP to get some new ones but I am loathe to spend JP at this point for when the valor items can be bought with it.
But it's like a huge pimple on my head....it's always on my mind.
So pop or wait?
I think DW slightly outdoes 2H but only by a small amount if I recall correctly.
OP has a link to the EJ thread with very detailed info.
MY WHOLE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN
This is obviously incorrect seeing as I DW and I am > anything...
All using Unholy Presence, because Frost Presence sucks now.
DW will reign supreme in 4.2 frost.
it is?
I may have to take my DK back out of early retirement
Frankly I'd rather see unholy be improved by them fixing crit rating not applying to pets. And just in general having pets get fucked up less in raid encounters.
I'd rather not have to rely on my pet for most of my damage.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Edit: It would, at least, make all that unavoidable crit rating on gear be less of a crap stat for DKs -- one spec of them, anyway. I don't know what they could do to improve crit rating for frost without breaking things.
I prefer not to get my hands dirtier than they already are.
So I am resubbing again likely tonight and will pick up my death knight first.
Unholy 2hander since the beginning, and for always.
And now apparently I can mutate my ghoul into a bigger, cooler ghoul?
What?
Dark Transformation is an ability that you should spec into as Unholy.
This apparently sends the frost DW DK to top of the DPS meters in full 372 gear in 4.2.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Even with the change to unholy strength?
What is the weapon of choice? 2H or DW?
2H
DW is trash for anything that isn't frost