Oh great. Last night I noticed that the Glyph of Death's Embrace is broken. Sometimes I just randomly wouldn't get the 20 RP refund when doing a healcoil. But since the problem was intermittent and didn't happen all the time, I'm sure Blizzard will say they can't duplicate it.
Ok, my connection is strong enough for me to get in on the dungeon finder fun and I did just that last night on my DWing frost specced DK.
Not heroic, I still have greens, but a regular run of Grim Batol.
I realised I didn't have any idea what I was doing but thankfully, I got a very nice, awesome group that didn't vote kick me.
I applied diseases, I spread them around and I tried not to break the limited CC that was going on by spamming Frost Blast(or whatever it's called). I would yank adds off the healers when I saw a baddie streaking past the tank.
I was lost on everything else. Do I pull out the army for the bosses? Do I pull out the temp ghoul at all? I didn't know if I was utilizing all the tricks at my disposal for the betterment of the pug and I was scared I wasn't doing all that I could do. I didn't want to be using useless powers and gimp my dps.
So...what's your routine? Let's just say with trash.
Apply and spread diseases, drop DnD? A few seconds for the tank to get aggro before this?
Is there something I can use so I am attacking what the tank is? Is it /assist name of tank?
I don't want to be an asshat leeching off of other people's prowess. I would like to contribute.
on trash, Outbreak, pest, then focus on the marked target (if they're not using marks, then you can click on the tank and press F for assist). Just your normal rotation, of oblit, frost striking, and HB when it procs.
see the elitist jerks thread for a priority list. I pop a ghoul for bosses, and AotD for bad shit moments or the last boss just cause. Make sure you have your interrupts hotkeyed, that's how you help your group. You can use Icy Touch if there are cc'd mobs around.
Be careful with AotD. The ghouls will taunt non-raid bosses, which might annoy/upset the tank if he wants it to be on him, or worse, put the boss in a bad position/facing if it happens to be an encounter with positional mechanics.
Tank assist info is what I was looking for...thanks.
Is there an etiquette to a mob on a healer and the tanks not picking it up? I feel wearing plate that I should be in a position to at least pull it off of them but then I remember I'm DPSing.
I need a good threat indicator addon. Any reccomends?
And thanks for the tips!
edit: so not knowing the mechanics, asking before I throw AotD down would be a wise option.
I usually only use aotd on the last boss of an instance, because not many of them move around alot/have positional requirements.
The ascendant lord, I probably wouldn't (brc, right?) Stonecore (helps with adds), Tolvir (does it even have a threat table phase 2?)VP (boss doesn't move) etc.
Some tanks will throw a shitfit either way, which is why I wait until the end, when it doesn't matter. Also don't forget about pillar, which I do all the time.
I save AotD for "oshi-" moments, like when the tank bites the dust: AotD and blood pres immediately finishing casting (might even do it the other way around if mobs beeline for the healer; blood pres HB will tank the fuck out of everything). Imo 10 min is too big a cooldown to pad deeps with, there's other stuff for that. That said those fubar situations rarely occur, so ofc you can cast it at your own discretion and depending on your feel for the group. YMMV
Tolvir (does it even have a threat table phase 2?)
He definitely does. This would actually be a bad place to use it, since the tank needs to drag the boss out of the green healing circle things, and AotD ghouls will ruin that.
Like Panda, I prefer to save AotD for if the tank bites it as an emergency attempt to try to salvage the pull/boss fight. The damage done by the ghouls is actually pretty low anymore considering the 6-second channel. It's probably a DPS loss if you cast it during the fight in most instances, and precasting it doesn't buy you that much either.
forty on
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KlatuAussie Aussie AussieOi Oi OiRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
I'm a DK tank, and have basically never done DK dps. But I notice not many dps DKs know what fights are good for AotD so I'll whip up a quick list.
AotD benefits from lust iirc, so you can wait for lust to arrive before you use army, though it is probably a dps loss due to the channeling time.
Blackrock:
Don't use army on any of the bosses in here, it's bad for all of them. On second thoughts you may be able to get away with army on Bonecrusher, he doesn't have directional AEs and moves to centre of room for chain thingy regardless of agro. Warn tank though.
Throne:
Last boss in here is the only place I'd consider using AotD. You can pop it at any point during the last boss fight and no one should be too upset.
You could potentially use it on first boss as well, but it'll probably cause more problems than not.
Vortex:
First and last boss, yes. No problem at all using it here.
Don't use on 2nd boss.
Stonecore:
Corborus, I usually drop DnD and use army on his burrow phase, when all the adds come out.
Slabhide, no.
Ozruk, NO. NO NO NO.
High Priestess, yes. Helps with adds and she takes additional damage from her own gravity wells, so the army can keep her in the middle of them.
Tol'Vir:
None of these bosses. On normal mode you can get away with army on Siamat.
HoO:
Anhurr, debatable, but if you ask the tank it should be ok. He doesn't really need to be moved that much, so you should be able to.
Ptah, as with Corborus, use it during the burrow phase, it helps.
Anraphet, on normal yes, on heroic, not so much. He needs to be moved too much on heroic.
Isiset, if the tank agrees, go for it.
Ammunae, if the tank agrees, go for it.
Setesh, no reason not to, he's untankable anyway.
Rajh, ask for lust around 40 energy left, pop AotD after lust, profit.
Grim Batol:
Umbriss, no.
Forgemaster, short answer no, long answer yes, with a but. Army is fine to use during shield phase and mace phase. So if you get swords first, then you know the next 2 phases are ok to have army up during. But because you don't know what order they are going in, wait til you see swords.. and warn the tank. I guess you could use it any time, during swords will soak up some of his extra damage, warn the tank though.
Dragha, during human phase yes, not during dragon phase.
Erudax, pop your army when you're standing in the AE waiting for it to go off. This will keep Erudax in place and allow the tank to assist in dpsing down the adds that arrive. If you have 2 dks in the group make sure you figure out who is going first so you can battle off the adds without worrying about the boss for more than one AE.
Zul'Aman:
Eagle boss, yes I wouldn't be upset if another DK did it here.
Bear, if you time them to come out during actual bear phase it saves healer some mana cause the ghouls will eat the high damage DoT. By this I mean time the cast so as the army is already hitting him when he changes form. Warn the tank though.
DH, I'd say no, unless you've pushed him too low too fast and need some extra targets for the adds.
Lynx, no, they stop him from moving out of water totems.
Malacrass, yes, generally no problems here, unless he is siphoning a class with AE, like consecrate, DnD, hellfire. If your healer is pro though, you can just stand on the AE, it usually doesn't do too much damage anyway.
Daakara, yes pretty much. Just let the tank know. It's probably least useful for bear, but still helpful.
Zul'Gurub:
Venoxis, yes time it to finish casting just as he is coming down off his platform and about to be stunned. You don't want your army up during his snake form, it'll cause problems for any melee in the group, or casters that are standing in range of his venom cone.
Mandokir, yes, but advise tank once again.
Panther, pop it as last pack of panthers are pulled before she goes to phase 2.
Zanzil, I usually use AotD on the pull, it's already a chaotic fight, why not add some more randomness to it.
Jin'do, I see no downside to using it during phase 2 depending on how your group does the chains. You don't want to be the reason your army messes up breaking a chain
Tank assist info is what I was looking for...thanks.
Is there an etiquette to a mob on a healer and the tanks not picking it up? I feel wearing plate that I should be in a position to at least pull it off of them but then I remember I'm DPSing.
I need a good threat indicator addon. Any reccomends?
And thanks for the tips!
edit: so not knowing the mechanics, asking before I throw AotD down would be a wise option.
Tidy plates with threat plates for addon indicator.
Makes the bars go small and green if you don't have threat, yellow when your threat is borderline and massive and red when you do have threat.
Alternatively, if you are the tank, small and green if you do, yellow for borderline and massive and red when you lose threat.
It's a minor glyph, so I don't expect much of it, but there are times when I fling a DC at my ghoul, so it would sure be nice if the glyph would fucking work consistently like it used to.
Glyphs
Glyph of Dark Succor has been redesigned. Rather than placing a 15% maximum health floor on Death Strike healing while in Frost or Unholy Presence, it causes the next Death Strike within 15 seconds after killing a foe that yields experience or Honor Points to heal for at least 20% of the death knight's maximum health.
I didn't like helping my healers out anyway. Screw you Blizzard, seriously.
If this goes through, at least I won't have to make a decision about Dark Succor vs. the rather crucial offensive major glyphs. I can just completely ignore it since it will be useless beyond leveling. Also, I like how it ends up like a shitty version of Victory Rush.
Whats the maximum for a non tank DS to heal? Like if I use it right after Electrocute or another big raid wide AOE, it's still going to heal me for like 10% right?
If this goes through, at least I won't have to make a decision about Dark Succor vs. the rather crucial offensive major glyphs. I can just completely ignore it since it will be useless beyond leveling. Also, I like how it ends up like a shitty version of Victory Rush.
In this world where your favourite class/ability could go in the shitter at any moment's notice every third month, I actually take this as two good news: Hungering Frost stays user-friendly and you can load up some badass dps glyph in an important slot.
Whats the maximum for a non tank DS to heal? Like if I use it right after Electrocute or another big raid wide AOE, it's still going to heal me for like 10% right?
That said. FUCK!
There's no maximum AFAIK, it's 15% of the damage you took in the last 5 seconds, and is why the break debuff gives -100% self healing done on Chim.
If this goes through, at least I won't have to make a decision about Dark Succor vs. the rather crucial offensive major glyphs. I can just completely ignore it since it will be useless beyond leveling. Also, I like how it ends up like a shitty version of Victory Rush.
In this world where your favourite class/ability could go in the shitter at any moment's notice every third month, I actually take this as two good news: Hungering Frost stays user-friendly and you can load up some badass dps glyph in an important slot.
Eh? Hungering Cold still has a cast time (on the PTR).
Whats the maximum for a non tank DS to heal? Like if I use it right after Electrocute or another big raid wide AOE, it's still going to heal me for like 10% right?
That said. FUCK!
There's no maximum AFAIK, it's 15% of the damage you took in the last 5 seconds, and is why the break debuff gives -100% self healing done on Chim.
The minimum is 7%? of your maximum health.
Yup. Electrocute does some 100k or so damage, so a DS right after it would heal you for 15k, which is probably about 50% more healing than you'd get from a standard 7% of health DS.
Last boss of Throne of the Tides Heroic is a gimmick fight... I've hit 60-90k DPS according to a recount on that fight with most of my DPSers... it's not exactly an honest measure of DPS.
The hit threshold for DW is 5% for specials, but that won't get you to spell hit cap with the Virulence bonus. Need 8% for that. 2H's hit cap is 8% for specials (yellow hit), and that *will* get you spell hit capped with Virulence.
DW hit's goal is 600 rating, which is 5% like dranyth says.
If he's gemming haste over str, he IS doing it wrong, though. 1 str>every other stat. It should be Str > hit to cap> expertise to cap (26 for DW) and then Haste, mastery crit, I believe.
My question: What badass DPS glyphs are you referring to? It seems like the Glyph designer for DKs was playing Blood.
Also, I have recently switched from Death Coil glyph to DnD glyph due to my frustration at DK AOE tanking. Good change on my part I think. I've considered specing into Imp Blood Boil for 5 mans. I can't stand idiots.
Hit isn't taken by almost any tank at all, because of vengeance, which is based on being hit. Because vengeance is so bonkers, it's okay to miss. DK's especially, because missing a DS isn't the end of the world usually, and you get to do it again in 1.5 seconds.
for dps, the reason certain things are rated the way they are is because it's been theorized that that is the maximum dps gain. So for dw, get 26/26, hit to 5% (600) then stack str, ignoring any bonus that isn't 20 str or 30 of haste, then haste, mastery, crit.
Mastery/haste was up for some debate earlier in the month. I haven't kept up on the bleeding edge of it, but just following Mr. Robot's suggestions, and having nothing higher than 353, I just broke 20k in a dungeon boss non gimick fight.
It was pretty rad. I can sustain 17-18k WITH the LFD buff, without ever having stepped in a raid.
I know, thats why I meant by "expertise (beyond dodge cap)?", in terms of overcoming the mobs dodge chance, but I feel like stacking non-hit and non-expertise will massively increase your DPS excluding the few rare bosses where you can't attack from the side/behind.
Posts
Not heroic, I still have greens, but a regular run of Grim Batol.
I realised I didn't have any idea what I was doing but thankfully, I got a very nice, awesome group that didn't vote kick me.
I applied diseases, I spread them around and I tried not to break the limited CC that was going on by spamming Frost Blast(or whatever it's called). I would yank adds off the healers when I saw a baddie streaking past the tank.
I was lost on everything else. Do I pull out the army for the bosses? Do I pull out the temp ghoul at all? I didn't know if I was utilizing all the tricks at my disposal for the betterment of the pug and I was scared I wasn't doing all that I could do. I didn't want to be using useless powers and gimp my dps.
So...what's your routine? Let's just say with trash.
Apply and spread diseases, drop DnD? A few seconds for the tank to get aggro before this?
Is there something I can use so I am attacking what the tank is? Is it /assist name of tank?
I don't want to be an asshat leeching off of other people's prowess. I would like to contribute.
see the elitist jerks thread for a priority list. I pop a ghoul for bosses, and AotD for bad shit moments or the last boss just cause. Make sure you have your interrupts hotkeyed, that's how you help your group. You can use Icy Touch if there are cc'd mobs around.
Use Pillar of Frost EVERY CD.
Pop Ghoul when you have a trinket buff + Pillar (this generally happens at the start of the fight)
AND STUFF
Is there an etiquette to a mob on a healer and the tanks not picking it up? I feel wearing plate that I should be in a position to at least pull it off of them but then I remember I'm DPSing.
I need a good threat indicator addon. Any reccomends?
And thanks for the tips!
edit: so not knowing the mechanics, asking before I throw AotD down would be a wise option.
The ascendant lord, I probably wouldn't (brc, right?) Stonecore (helps with adds), Tolvir (does it even have a threat table phase 2?)VP (boss doesn't move) etc.
Some tanks will throw a shitfit either way, which is why I wait until the end, when it doesn't matter. Also don't forget about pillar, which I do all the time.
Like Panda, I prefer to save AotD for if the tank bites it as an emergency attempt to try to salvage the pull/boss fight. The damage done by the ghouls is actually pretty low anymore considering the 6-second channel. It's probably a DPS loss if you cast it during the fight in most instances, and precasting it doesn't buy you that much either.
AotD benefits from lust iirc, so you can wait for lust to arrive before you use army, though it is probably a dps loss due to the channeling time.
Blackrock:
Don't use army on any of the bosses in here, it's bad for all of them. On second thoughts you may be able to get away with army on Bonecrusher, he doesn't have directional AEs and moves to centre of room for chain thingy regardless of agro. Warn tank though.
Throne:
Last boss in here is the only place I'd consider using AotD. You can pop it at any point during the last boss fight and no one should be too upset.
You could potentially use it on first boss as well, but it'll probably cause more problems than not.
Vortex:
First and last boss, yes. No problem at all using it here.
Don't use on 2nd boss.
Stonecore:
Corborus, I usually drop DnD and use army on his burrow phase, when all the adds come out.
Slabhide, no.
Ozruk, NO. NO NO NO.
High Priestess, yes. Helps with adds and she takes additional damage from her own gravity wells, so the army can keep her in the middle of them.
Tol'Vir:
None of these bosses. On normal mode you can get away with army on Siamat.
HoO:
Anhurr, debatable, but if you ask the tank it should be ok. He doesn't really need to be moved that much, so you should be able to.
Ptah, as with Corborus, use it during the burrow phase, it helps.
Anraphet, on normal yes, on heroic, not so much. He needs to be moved too much on heroic.
Isiset, if the tank agrees, go for it.
Ammunae, if the tank agrees, go for it.
Setesh, no reason not to, he's untankable anyway.
Rajh, ask for lust around 40 energy left, pop AotD after lust, profit.
Grim Batol:
Umbriss, no.
Forgemaster, short answer no, long answer yes, with a but. Army is fine to use during shield phase and mace phase. So if you get swords first, then you know the next 2 phases are ok to have army up during. But because you don't know what order they are going in, wait til you see swords.. and warn the tank. I guess you could use it any time, during swords will soak up some of his extra damage, warn the tank though.
Dragha, during human phase yes, not during dragon phase.
Erudax, pop your army when you're standing in the AE waiting for it to go off. This will keep Erudax in place and allow the tank to assist in dpsing down the adds that arrive. If you have 2 dks in the group make sure you figure out who is going first so you can battle off the adds without worrying about the boss for more than one AE.
Zul'Aman:
Eagle boss, yes I wouldn't be upset if another DK did it here.
Bear, if you time them to come out during actual bear phase it saves healer some mana cause the ghouls will eat the high damage DoT. By this I mean time the cast so as the army is already hitting him when he changes form. Warn the tank though.
DH, I'd say no, unless you've pushed him too low too fast and need some extra targets for the adds.
Lynx, no, they stop him from moving out of water totems.
Malacrass, yes, generally no problems here, unless he is siphoning a class with AE, like consecrate, DnD, hellfire. If your healer is pro though, you can just stand on the AE, it usually doesn't do too much damage anyway.
Daakara, yes pretty much. Just let the tank know. It's probably least useful for bear, but still helpful.
Zul'Gurub:
Venoxis, yes time it to finish casting just as he is coming down off his platform and about to be stunned. You don't want your army up during his snake form, it'll cause problems for any melee in the group, or casters that are standing in range of his venom cone.
Mandokir, yes, but advise tank once again.
Panther, pop it as last pack of panthers are pulled before she goes to phase 2.
Zanzil, I usually use AotD on the pull, it's already a chaotic fight, why not add some more randomness to it.
Jin'do, I see no downside to using it during phase 2 depending on how your group does the chains. You don't want to be the reason your army messes up breaking a chain
edit: added some extra notes in italics.
Tidy plates with threat plates for addon indicator.
Makes the bars go small and green if you don't have threat, yellow when your threat is borderline and massive and red when you do have threat.
Alternatively, if you are the tank, small and green if you do, yellow for borderline and massive and red when you lose threat.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Totally fun.
It's pretty useless.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Just kidding. They added this gem:
I didn't like helping my healers out anyway. Screw you Blizzard, seriously.
That said. FUCK!
There's no maximum AFAIK, it's 15% of the damage you took in the last 5 seconds, and is why the break debuff gives -100% self healing done on Chim.
The minimum is 7%? of your maximum health.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Yup. Electrocute does some 100k or so damage, so a DS right after it would heal you for 15k, which is probably about 50% more healing than you'd get from a standard 7% of health DS.
Oh well, that frees up another glyph slot I guess
So I inspect him.
It's all haste.
He's gemmed for it, reforged for it.
According to EJ's it's strength, hit, expertise and then haste.
wtf?
And what is the cap on hit for a DWing DK? Explain to me yellow hit, please?
The hit threshold for DW is 5% for specials, but that won't get you to spell hit cap with the Virulence bonus. Need 8% for that. 2H's hit cap is 8% for specials (yellow hit), and that *will* get you spell hit capped with Virulence.
DW hit's goal is 600 rating, which is 5% like dranyth says.
If he's gemming haste over str, he IS doing it wrong, though. 1 str>every other stat. It should be Str > hit to cap> expertise to cap (26 for DW) and then Haste, mastery crit, I believe.
Also, I have recently switched from Death Coil glyph to DnD glyph due to my frustration at DK AOE tanking. Good change on my part I think. I've considered specing into Imp Blood Boil for 5 mans. I can't stand idiots.
I know as a tank hit isn't taken by many of the top tanks anymore.
for dps, the reason certain things are rated the way they are is because it's been theorized that that is the maximum dps gain. So for dw, get 26/26, hit to 5% (600) then stack str, ignoring any bonus that isn't 20 str or 30 of haste, then haste, mastery, crit.
Mastery/haste was up for some debate earlier in the month. I haven't kept up on the bleeding edge of it, but just following Mr. Robot's suggestions, and having nothing higher than 353, I just broke 20k in a dungeon boss non gimick fight.
It was pretty rad. I can sustain 17-18k WITH the LFD buff, without ever having stepped in a raid.