Walt could just as easily finish the show making millions, or dying. Bad things leading only to bad things is complete bullshit as far as real life is concerned, so I really don't know where the show is going to go. I get the vibe that the writers want Walt's story to end in misery, though, which is exactly what I don't want especially after watching through The Shield.
Oh, and about the poison.
Walt is a brilliant chemist and probably knew without a doubt that the kid would survive. He couldn't get Gus without Jesse, and if he didn't get Gus him and his entire family was dead. Considering saving Jesse is what brought him to this, I found it easy to justify.
See, I thought the ending to The Shield was one of the best things I've ever seen on TV. They managed to wrap up an anti-hero's story in a way that neither condoned nor condemned him. It was equal measures cruel and merciful. Brilliant writing, really. My fear is that Breaking Bad has THAT watermark to live up to, seeing as how they have a central protagonist that shares a lot of traits with Mackey (although, you could say they are kind of mirrors of each other, with Vic starting out an unlikable bastard and slowly becoming endearing, where Walter starts out naively trying to provide for his family, while slowly descending into the depths of evil).
I'm interested to see how they choose to end it. I don't know how it could be as gut-wrenchingly appropriate as The Shield, but I'm dying to find out. I think simply killing Walter off is too easy, and letting him get away scott free isn't appropriate to the theme of the show. The devil is somewhere in that middle ground. There are far worse things they could do to Walt than kill him.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Walt could just as easily finish the show making millions, or dying. Bad things leading only to bad things is complete bullshit as far as real life is concerned, so I really don't know where the show is going to go. I get the vibe that the writers want Walt's story to end in misery, though, which is exactly what I don't want especially after watching through The Shield.
Oh, and about the poison.
Walt is a brilliant chemist and probably knew without a doubt that the kid would survive. He couldn't get Gus without Jesse, and if he didn't get Gus him and his entire family was dead. Considering saving Jesse is what brought him to this, I found it easy to justify.
See, I thought the ending to The Shield was one of the best things I've ever seen on TV. They managed to wrap up an anti-hero's story in a way that neither condoned nor condemned him. It was equal measures cruel and merciful. Brilliant writing, really. My fear is that Breaking Bad has THAT watermark to live up to, seeing as how they have a central protagonist that shares a lot of traits with Mackey (although, you could say they are kind of mirrors of each other, with Vic starting out an unlikable bastard and slowly becoming endearing, where Walter starts out naively trying to provide for his family, while slowly descending into the depths of evil).
I'm interested to see how they choose to end it. I don't know how it could be as gut-wrenchingly appropriate as The Shield, but I'm dying to find out. I think simply killing Walter off is too easy, and letting him get away scott free isn't appropriate to the theme of the show. The devil is somewhere in that middle ground. There are far worse things they could do to Walt than kill him.
Shield series spoiler
Vic is still filing 2 daily boring desk reports. He's in purgatory...
I've thought about that ending quite a bit since I saw it. It really stuck. I almost felt bad for him.
But yeah. How does Walter White end up? I guess it depends heavily on how much deeper he goes beyond poisoning a child to trick his only friend into helping him murder their boss. Does it get worse from here on out?
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Man, I would like to be able to read this show's thread without seeing spoilers for other shows I plan to watch sometime.
Sorry man, I purposely tried to avoid any concrete spoilers, and tried to just allude to it. Trust me, though, even if you read some of the other posts that spelled the ending out a little more, you will still be amazed at how awesome it is.
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Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
Double post
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Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
And quote is not edit. =[
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Walt could just as easily finish the show making millions, or dying. Bad things leading only to bad things is complete bullshit as far as real life is concerned, so I really don't know where the show is going to go. I get the vibe that the writers want Walt's story to end in misery, though, which is exactly what I don't want especially after watching through The Shield.
Oh, and about the poison.
Walt is a brilliant chemist and probably knew without a doubt that the kid would survive. He couldn't get Gus without Jesse, and if he didn't get Gus him and his entire family was dead. Considering saving Jesse is what brought him to this, I found it easy to justify.
See, I thought the ending to The Shield was one of the best things I've ever seen on TV. They managed to wrap up an anti-hero's story in a way that neither condoned nor condemned him. It was equal measures cruel and merciful. Brilliant writing, really. My fear is that Breaking Bad has THAT watermark to live up to, seeing as how they have a central protagonist that shares a lot of traits with Mackey (although, you could say they are kind of mirrors of each other, with Vic starting out an unlikable bastard and slowly becoming endearing, where Walter starts out naively trying to provide for his family, while slowly descending into the depths of evil).
I'm interested to see how they choose to end it. I don't know how it could be as gut-wrenchingly appropriate as The Shield, but I'm dying to find out. I think simply killing Walter off is too easy, and letting him get away scott free isn't appropriate to the theme of the show. The devil is somewhere in that middle ground. There are far worse things they could do to Walt than kill him.
Shield spoilers
once again, shield spoilers
I feel like Season 7 played out with such implausibility, from Shane's ridiculous decision to try to kill Ronnie and Vic using a thug, to everything with the FBI protection deal and delaying Ronnie's immunity even when Vic was about to hand them a monumental bust, that it pretty much alienated me in terms of the ending. Things happened in such a convenient way as to narrow Vic into a corner and then have him betray Ronnie which went against every single thing he stood for for 6 1/2 seasons. People say that that's just who Vic really is on the inside, a rat, but it still felt nonsensical to me. Though if I'm forced to accept everything how it played out, then yeah, Vic deserves what he gets. Shane killing his wife and kid was really fucked up though. A shootout between him and Vic would have been really satisfying. Maybe even have Vic die of wounds he receives from Shane. That would have been better.
It'll probably end with Walter surviving and doing really well as a criminal, but losing everything else (family, friends). His breaking bad will be that he set out to save his family and ended up losing them entirely in some way, and perhaps himself as well
Why? He stopped caring about his actual family long ago, preferring to spend his energy protecting the idea of his family while the actual people and relationships fell apart.
It'll probably end with Walter surviving and doing really well as a criminal, but losing everything else (family, friends). His breaking bad will be that he set out to save his family and ended up losing them entirely in some way, and perhaps himself as well
His wife is already breaking bad. The real question to me is whether she'll go down for it.
Last Season
Especially with the very likely death of Ted. Whether that will end the investigation or cause her downfall.
Regarding the kid, end of season
I don't think White cared if the kid lived or died. I don't think he wanted him to die, and perhaps measured the amount in a way that would have minimized that happening, but like the neighbor he had check his house, he didn't care whether they lived or died. He only cared about what they provided to him (his house/safety, Jesse).
So, are we supposed to believe that Gus would have always removed Walt once Gale was confident with his technique? Or was that purely due to him interfering with Jesse and the drug dealers?
Seems to me that Gus always felt he was a hot head, considering he had no interest in hiring him initially and was willing to move forward with Gale alone.
There was the point when Gus invited Walt to his house though; had Walt kept his head down would he have been fine?
So, are we supposed to believe that Gus would have always removed Walt once Gale was confident with his technique? Or was that purely due to him interfering with Jesse and the drug dealers?
Seems to me that Gus always felt he was a hot head, considering he had no interest in hiring him initially and was willing to move forward with Gale alone.
There was the point when Gus invited Walt to his house though; had Walt kept his head down would he have been fine?
I believe that Gus wanted Gale to become Jesse, as he was the problem all along. Now, when Walt went and killed two of Gus's men to save Jesse (Which you have to admit, is a badge of honor for Walt, he just saw the news and knew what Jesse would do and went out to help him) thats when Gus decided that Walt is a risk. He just failed to calculate how much.
spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited February 2012
Walt definitely does some terrible things, but the only characters I think do unjustifiable bad things which could actually make the characters monsters are
Skyler for sleeping with her boss. There was no justification for that. If she wanted to hurt Walt enough to get him to agree to a divorce, she could have made something up. No need to actually cheat.
Tucoo for being a completely insane murder.
Jane for getting Jesse hooked on heroin.
I think everyone else is redeemable, since we can at least understand why they act the way they do, and can see how they justify their actions.
Also, why is
letting Jane die the worst thing Walt did? She was a junkie that was unstable, and who would have ruined Walt and his family if she stayed alive. I think poisoning the child (even though he probably knew he'd live) and even stealing the Methalmine from that innocent company were much worse.
Walt definitely does some terrible things, but the only characters I think do unjustifiable bad things which could actually make the characters monsters are
Skyler for sleeping with her boss. There was no justification for that. If she wanted to hurt Walt enough to get him to agree to a divorce, she could have made something up. No need to actually cheat.
Tucoo for being a completely insane murder.
Jane for getting Jesse hooked on heroin.
I'm kind of speechless that you think that cheating puts you on the same level as a "completely insane" murderer.
Walt definitely does some terrible things, but the only characters I think do unjustifiable bad things which could actually make the characters monsters are
Skyler for sleeping with her boss. There was no justification for that. If she wanted to hurt Walt enough to get him to agree to a divorce, she could have made something up. No need to actually cheat.
Tucoo for being a completely insane murder.
Jane for getting Jesse hooked on heroin.
I'm kind of speechless that you think that cheating puts you on the same level as a "completely insane" murderer.
That's some seriously unsettling stuff.
I did not say they were the same level. Just that they all did bad things that there is no justification for. We can tie everything Walt does over the entire show to keeping his family from going broke or protecting himself or his family from other people. Skyler's actions literally cannot be justified IMO.
Ah, my mistake then. Still, I think the lack of justification does not necessarily make a person a monster.
I'm also not sure why Skyler would need a justification to act the way she did. She had a reason in much the same way that everybody in the show has reasons for acting the way they do. We might disagree with their reasoning - or in most cases find their actions disproportionate to the reasons driving those actions - but they do have reasons.
I personally find it far more difficult to accept...
Walter's reasons for killing people than Skyler's reasons for sleeping with another man
cheat on Walt? Was it not heavily hinted at in the first season that she had a romantic history with that boss? And I think the last time her and Walt were sexing on the show (before she cheated), Walt roughed her up in the kitchen....
letting Jane die the worst thing Walt did? She was a junkie that was unstable, and who would have ruined Walt and his family if she stayed alive. I think poisoning the child (even though he probably knew he'd live) and even stealing the Methalmine from that innocent company were much worse.
So the equivalent of getting a child high and theft are worse than letting someone die?
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Ah, my mistake then. Still, I think the lack of justification does not necessarily make a person a monster.
I'm also not sure why Skyler would need a justification to act the way she did. She had a reason in much the same way that everybody in the show has reasons for acting the way they do. We might disagree with their reasoning - or in most cases find their actions disproportionate to the reasons driving those actions - but they do have reasons.
I personally find it far more difficult to accept...
Walter's reasons for killing people than Skyler's reasons for sleeping with another man
I guess the difference is
you can explain why Walt killed each person he did by looking at what would have happened to him, Jessie or his family. But if you look at Skyler's actions, what exactly did she accomplish by sleeping with her boss?
As a society, we view murder as bad, but also recognize that there are circumstances under which it is at least somewhat justified, such as in self defense. But cheating accomplishes nothing, and there are no circumstances I can think of where we should think that the general rule that cheating is bad should be broken. This doesn't mean that a murder for a reason is better than cheating on someone, just that the person doing the killing can have an understandable reason, at least, and the cheater can not.
I think if you compare the consequences of cheating with the consequences of murder, you'd find a plenty reasons why doing something that you shouldn't isn't a big deal in one instance and a huge freaking deal in another.
As you said, these two things aren't alike. Even suggesting that ending a human life can in any way be compared to letting somebody put their genitals in you is absurd.
One is literally the most harmful act you can commit against another human being, even if you buy the argument that it is sometimes necessary. The other is just not keeping a promise. But most of all fucking somebody else, is an utterly trivial thing to do in that context.
If you're arguing that cheating is an inherently selfish thing to do, you should keep in mind that so is self-defense.
I think if you compare the consequences of cheating with the consequences of murder, you'd find a plenty reasons why doing something that you shouldn't isn't a big deal in one instance and a huge freaking deal in another.
As you said, these two things aren't alike. Even suggesting that ending a human life can in any way be compared to letting somebody put their genitals in you is absurd.
One is literally the most harmful act you can commit against another human being, even if you buy the argument that it is sometimes necessary. The other is just not keeping a promise. But most of all fucking somebody else, is an utterly trivial thing to do in that context.
If you're arguing that cheating is an inherently selfish thing to do, you should keep in mind that so is self-defense.
This is a bigger topic than I think can be adequately addressed without taking this thread way off topic (if you want to start a separate thread, I'll be happy to participate).
On topic
Walt killing people kept him alive and out of prison. That also saved his family from (1) poverty due to his medical bills, (2) shame, embarrassment, and emotional trauma from finding out what he was doing, and, in Hank's case, from most likely losing his job. What exactly did Skyler's affair accomplish?
Again, I am not arguing that cheating is worse than or as bad as murder. I am saying that, independent of the act itself or its ramifications, the difference in justifiability can make the difference in determining who is a bad person and who is not, despite their bad acts.
I think if you compare the consequences of cheating with the consequences of murder, you'd find a plenty reasons why doing something that you shouldn't isn't a big deal in one instance and a huge freaking deal in another.
As you said, these two things aren't alike. Even suggesting that ending a human life can in any way be compared to letting somebody put their genitals in you is absurd.
One is literally the most harmful act you can commit against another human being, even if you buy the argument that it is sometimes necessary. The other is just not keeping a promise. But most of all fucking somebody else, is an utterly trivial thing to do in that context.
If you're arguing that cheating is an inherently selfish thing to do, you should keep in mind that so is self-defense.
This is a bigger topic than I think can be adequately addressed without taking this thread way off topic (if you want to start a separate thread, I'll be happy to participate).
On topic
Walt killing people kept him alive and out of prison. That also saved his family from (1) poverty due to his medical bills, (2) shame, embarrassment, and emotional trauma from finding out what he was doing, and, in Hank's case, from most likely losing his job. What exactly did Skyler's affair accomplish?
Again, I am not arguing that cheating is worse than or as bad as murder. I am saying that, independent of the act itself or its ramifications, the difference in justifiability can make the difference in determining who is a bad person and who is not, despite their bad acts.
Justification?
There's a whole lot of reasons. Boss-dude was hitting on her, it's the reason she quit in the first place. Sleeping with him had plenty of up-sides professionally. She was angry at Walt, wanted him to leave AND wanted to hurt him AND wanted to convince herself to get away from him. Boss-dude has been there for her, obviously because he wants in her pants but so what? And what is Walter White's crippling, horrible 20-point flaw? The one that constantly costs him and constantly drags him deeper into the darkness? Oh right his pride, the thing that gets most assaulted when cuckolded.
And what about junkie-girl? She "gets Jesse hooked on Heroin"? Did she hold up a needle and say, "do this or else..." to Jesse?
I mean, far be it from me to make aspersions or psychological analyses of someone by what they've said on the internet but the list is a psychotic murder, an adulterous woman (shame the whore!) and a sin/temptation/woman (curse you Eve original sin!). There's some symbolism here in what stands out.
I'm way late to the party on Breaking Bad, but I just started this week on Netflix and I'm up to Better Call Saul. Bob Oedenkirk's appearance had me rolling on the floor. Fantastic character.
This show really lends a sense of perspective. Had a bad day? No. Secure that shit right now. You haven't had a bad day. Not by a long shot. Got problems? No, you don't have problems. It's like Springer turned up to eleven and soaked in some really horrible chemicals.
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
Whoever thought this entire TV structure was a good idea needs to be slapped. July. I can't even remember when it went off the air, but I'll take a guess and say LAST July.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Whoever thought this entire TV structure was a good idea needs to be slapped. July. I can't even remember when it went off the air, but I'll take a guess and say LAST July.
Nope. It ran from last July through last October. So, same schedule again this season.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Posts
can he put that into a playable level of some kind?
Gus as God King CONFIRMED.
Switch: nin.codes/roldford
See, I thought the ending to The Shield was one of the best things I've ever seen on TV. They managed to wrap up an anti-hero's story in a way that neither condoned nor condemned him. It was equal measures cruel and merciful. Brilliant writing, really. My fear is that Breaking Bad has THAT watermark to live up to, seeing as how they have a central protagonist that shares a lot of traits with Mackey (although, you could say they are kind of mirrors of each other, with Vic starting out an unlikable bastard and slowly becoming endearing, where Walter starts out naively trying to provide for his family, while slowly descending into the depths of evil).
I'm interested to see how they choose to end it. I don't know how it could be as gut-wrenchingly appropriate as The Shield, but I'm dying to find out. I think simply killing Walter off is too easy, and letting him get away scott free isn't appropriate to the theme of the show. The devil is somewhere in that middle ground. There are far worse things they could do to Walt than kill him.
I've thought about that ending quite a bit since I saw it. It really stuck. I almost felt bad for him.
But yeah. How does Walter White end up? I guess it depends heavily on how much deeper he goes beyond poisoning a child to trick his only friend into helping him murder their boss. Does it get worse from here on out?
yeah that'd be great
Sorry man, I purposely tried to avoid any concrete spoilers, and tried to just allude to it. Trust me, though, even if you read some of the other posts that spelled the ending out a little more, you will still be amazed at how awesome it is.
Shield spoilers
His wife is already breaking bad. The real question to me is whether she'll go down for it.
Last Season
Regarding the kid, end of season
Seems to me that Gus always felt he was a hot head, considering he had no interest in hiring him initially and was willing to move forward with Gale alone.
There was the point when Gus invited Walt to his house though; had Walt kept his head down would he have been fine?
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6701398/breaking-bad-rpg
season 5 teaser / season 1-4 recap music video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=589Ecy088qY&list=UUUgpJSj9-SlLHdcybURHNcA&index=1&feature=plcp
Skyler for sleeping with her boss. There was no justification for that. If she wanted to hurt Walt enough to get him to agree to a divorce, she could have made something up. No need to actually cheat.
Tucoo for being a completely insane murder.
Jane for getting Jesse hooked on heroin.
I think everyone else is redeemable, since we can at least understand why they act the way they do, and can see how they justify their actions.
Also, why is
I'm kind of speechless that you think that cheating puts you on the same level as a "completely insane" murderer.
That's some seriously unsettling stuff.
I did not say they were the same level. Just that they all did bad things that there is no justification for. We can tie everything Walt does over the entire show to keeping his family from going broke or protecting himself or his family from other people. Skyler's actions literally cannot be justified IMO.
I'm also not sure why Skyler would need a justification to act the way she did. She had a reason in much the same way that everybody in the show has reasons for acting the way they do. We might disagree with their reasoning - or in most cases find their actions disproportionate to the reasons driving those actions - but they do have reasons.
I personally find it far more difficult to accept...
I guess the difference is
As a society, we view murder as bad, but also recognize that there are circumstances under which it is at least somewhat justified, such as in self defense. But cheating accomplishes nothing, and there are no circumstances I can think of where we should think that the general rule that cheating is bad should be broken. This doesn't mean that a murder for a reason is better than cheating on someone, just that the person doing the killing can have an understandable reason, at least, and the cheater can not.
As you said, these two things aren't alike. Even suggesting that ending a human life can in any way be compared to letting somebody put their genitals in you is absurd.
One is literally the most harmful act you can commit against another human being, even if you buy the argument that it is sometimes necessary. The other is just not keeping a promise. But most of all fucking somebody else, is an utterly trivial thing to do in that context.
If you're arguing that cheating is an inherently selfish thing to do, you should keep in mind that so is self-defense.
This is a bigger topic than I think can be adequately addressed without taking this thread way off topic (if you want to start a separate thread, I'll be happy to participate).
On topic
Again, I am not arguing that cheating is worse than or as bad as murder. I am saying that, independent of the act itself or its ramifications, the difference in justifiability can make the difference in determining who is a bad person and who is not, despite their bad acts.
Justification?
And what about junkie-girl? She "gets Jesse hooked on Heroin"? Did she hold up a needle and say, "do this or else..." to Jesse?
I mean, far be it from me to make aspersions or psychological analyses of someone by what they've said on the internet but the list is a psychotic murder, an adulterous woman (shame the whore!) and a sin/temptation/woman (curse you Eve original sin!). There's some symbolism here in what stands out.
This show really lends a sense of perspective. Had a bad day? No. Secure that shit right now. You haven't had a bad day. Not by a long shot. Got problems? No, you don't have problems. It's like Springer turned up to eleven and soaked in some really horrible chemicals.
Nope. It ran from last July through last October. So, same schedule again this season.
Anna Gunn has confirmed that they're slated to shoot 8 episodes now and 8 episodes next winter (so second half would probably air July 2013).
Yeah, they didn't start shooting this half until January/February 2012.