I doubt Phage is better for Ezreal than Sheen when you consider the proc.
Well, assume you're level 10. Sheen gives you 25 AP so 2.5 damage on your q, plus one proc for ~75 damage. Phage has 18 AD, so makes it up in AA,q,AA,AA. AA,q,AA is something you should be getting off every engagement.
Now you're also going to get some damage on w and e from the Sheen so in terms of pure damage the Sheen is probably better to the tune of 40 damage per combo or so. But Phage also has 225 HP and its slow proc which means if you e in then AA,q,AA you have roughly a 60% chance of landing a slow on that combo. This makes your chase stronger and keeps you in fights longer. The longer a fight goes, the more the damage advantage shifts to the Phage.
People tend to way overestimate the value of Sheen's proc especially in longer engagements like a gank (where you're going to be there a bit since you can't burst them down in a second). Sheen is much much better in lane, where you can use it to increase your poke damage since you're not really going to get a full combo off.
Note: In general(with exception to BT/IE), on characters without specific steroids or on hit procs, attack speed items > Damage items > Burst items when its consistent damage/time you're talking about and burst>damage>attack speed when it comes to poke (as it can reset before the next poke)
Goumindong on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
AP GP is half legit with Lich Bane, but he needs to go tank/CDR to get more heals for trolling and more ults for actually being useful. I've sort of made it work.
It's still pretty bad compared to critplank or tankplank though.
I need to watch that replay I renamed to "Wardmaster Soraka" and count exactly how many wards I dropped in that game.
I've been telling my 5-man group exactly this: map vision brings victory.
I always tell people that and they usually chime in that's supports job.
So this last game I picked sona and had the map covered in wards.
First time playing sona since I was leveling. Oh man was that fun. Me and Cait pushed in soraka and sivir's shit. I had good ward vision and coverage of the jungler with CV. Even when they were farming at tower I'd make them pay with a Q. End of lane (around 17:00) Cait is up 130-80 in C/S and she's 2/0/2.
I warded their whole jungle, and they couldn't go anywhere.
Maybe I'll do a few games of support sona.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
AP GP is half legit with Lich Bane, but he needs to go tank/CDR to get more heals for trolling and more ults for actually being useful. I've sort of made it work.
Try building him the same as AP Sion: Abyssal, Zhonya's, Lichbane.
Gunblade + Void Staff for the finisher.
Bethryn on
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
Made a smurf account because a friend got into the game.
Wow, it's really weird playing the game at low levels again. Guess I blacked out how often I saw someone say "I mid".
That's fine, me and my buddy will duo-lane Yorick/Sticks and have a ball.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Hmmm, do you chaps move your screen with the middle mouse button or via the edges? I'm thinking of switching from the latter to the former.
I can never remember which one is latter and which one is former. I think the former would be the first one, right? At least that makes sense to me...
I just use the edge of the screen to move, but I've never tried with MMB. To be fair, most of my mouses have had trouble with that one (and remember that some Win7 configurations set MMB to an alt+tab command which may or may not work mid-game).
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
No, you man up and get GP5 and last hit under your tower so your team can enjoy the advantage of having a jungler.
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
I generally allow them to push the lane to me in the beginning, then farm under my tower as much as possible. In lanes like this you will start to out level them fairly quickly, so you need to play VERY safe in the beginning, then once you've got a couple levels on them you can start to harass a bit. At the least, try to remain within xp range of the minion wave and not get completely shut out. CS is important, not dying is much MORE important.
For the champs that I play and at the level that I play, once I'm 2-3 levels above the duo I can take more risks to get that precious farm. Then just farm farm farm. The tower is not worth your life, especially since they'll probably kill you and get the tower after anyway.
Unless they are really dumb, you are not going to win a 1v2 lane early without jungle support, but you can get a level advantage and use that to get farm, and then start eating them.
You're really screwed if it is a CC heavy lane though, especially if they have a toss to get you out from under of your tower.
TL;DR Stay alive, get levels, farm under tower
Edit: I am NOT an expert at this game by any stretch of the imagination, this is just what works for me.
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
As a rule, one person at level 13 with 60cs (you in the 1v2) and one person at level 11 with 60cs (your jungler) is more useful than two people at level 10 with 40cs (the people you're fighting). The problem you're having is that Irelia and Riven are carries, meaning they have shitty early games and strong late games, if they get farmed. They simply can't stand a 1v2 with any amount of ranged harass; this is neither your fault or the jungler's, it's simply a matter of blind pick being shitty.
Try picking up Olaf, Gangplank, Kennen, or Nidalee to go top for those 1v2 lanes. Brand, Yorick, and Graves would also do pretty well. Just remember that you don't have to have perfect CS to win top lane, you just need to have more than they do.
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
As a rule, one person at level 13 with 60cs (you in the 1v2) and one person at level 11 with 60cs (your jungler) is more useful than two people at level 10 with 40cs (the people you're fighting). The problem you're having is that Irelia and Riven are carries, meaning they have shitty early games and strong late games, if they get farmed. They simply can't stand a 1v2 with any amount of ranged harass; this is neither your fault or the jungler's, it's simply a matter of blind pick being shitty.
Try picking up Olaf, Gangplank, Kennen, or Nidalee to go top for those 1v2 lanes. Brand, Yorick, and Graves would also do pretty well. Just remember that you don't have to have perfect CS to win top lane, you just need to have more than they do.
Uhhh, Riven has strong early game. That's kind of her schtick. Her level 2, 3, and 6 are very strong in laning.
You can move the screen? Mine is always locked on to the champion I am playing
Press Y.
You are now free of the training wheels (except they only train bad habits)! 8D
I didnt think someone would actually believe that I had the camera locked :P
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SaldonasSee you space cowboy...Registered Userregular
So I'm guessing the champion and skin sales they've been having during the weeks have been to offset the patch delay. I'm trying to think of any other time they've gone four weeks before a new release.
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
As a rule, one person at level 13 with 60cs (you in the 1v2) and one person at level 11 with 60cs (your jungler) is more useful than two people at level 10 with 40cs (the people you're fighting). The problem you're having is that Irelia and Riven are carries, meaning they have shitty early games and strong late games, if they get farmed. They simply can't stand a 1v2 with any amount of ranged harass; this is neither your fault or the jungler's, it's simply a matter of blind pick being shitty.
Try picking up Olaf, Gangplank, Kennen, or Nidalee to go top for those 1v2 lanes. Brand, Yorick, and Graves would also do pretty well. Just remember that you don't have to have perfect CS to win top lane, you just need to have more than they do.
People always forget the sleeper! Rammus, yo!
Rammus can hold 1v2 top like a boss.
Also, I can't stress enough that getting CS is great, and obviously a high priority. But even higher is positioning. Both your positioning, and the positioning of the enemy minions.
By this, I mean:
A: Keep yourself on the move. If the enemies have skillshots, you NEED to constantly be moving, and looking for them to stutter their champ to line up their skill shot. If they have a targetable skill that's going to hit you no matter what, then it just takes practice to learn how to stay out of that range.
B: Do your best to keep the enemy minions off your tower. Towers can sometimes have the undesired effect of pushing your lane back to the neutral mid-point of your lane. That's a problem, as a 1v2 will keep you zoned out of your exp gain. I say, at the very least, let your tower bash the melee minions, but keep the caster minions out of your tower's range so the lane holds close enough for you to still take exp.
Exp>CS
I'm sure there are many who disagree, but I think if you're going to be harassed by 2 enemies out of your CS, you might as well take the exp.
So I'm guessing the champion and skin sales they've been having during the weeks have been to offset the patch delay. I'm trying to think of any other time they've gone four weeks before a new release.
yorick was a three week cycle, and it was two weeks after that before they patched him and made him at all usable
so that was five weeks between orianna and a playable (super OP) yorick
So I'm guessing the champion and skin sales they've been having during the weeks have been to offset the patch delay. I'm trying to think of any other time they've gone four weeks before a new release.
I'm okay with it. They just need to have more champs that i want on sale like talon and shyvana
So I'm guessing the champion and skin sales they've been having during the weeks have been to offset the patch delay. I'm trying to think of any other time they've gone four weeks before a new release.
I'm thinking about the long run. How long do they expect to keep releasing new champions? WC3's DotA had what...72 different champs?
How long until their created champs start stepping on the toes of already-existing champs? After this season is over, I'd hope they just focus on releasing new skins on a regular basis.
I understand they need to make their money somewhere, but I think they'd be better off finding new business ventures. Sure, they "reinvented the wheel." But how long until that wheel wears out?
Hey, so what do you do when you're 1v2 top lane? This happens a lot in Solo Queue - no Jungler. I can handle it a bit better when I'm a ranged poke, but when I play Irelia (or recently, Riven), I just get demolished the moment I try to last hit and I'm not under my tower. Do you just tell your Jungler to man up and lane?
As a rule, one person at level 13 with 60cs (you in the 1v2) and one person at level 11 with 60cs (your jungler) is more useful than two people at level 10 with 40cs (the people you're fighting). The problem you're having is that Irelia and Riven are carries, meaning they have shitty early games and strong late games, if they get farmed. They simply can't stand a 1v2 with any amount of ranged harass; this is neither your fault or the jungler's, it's simply a matter of blind pick being shitty.
Try picking up Olaf, Gangplank, Kennen, or Nidalee to go top for those 1v2 lanes. Brand, Yorick, and Graves would also do pretty well. Just remember that you don't have to have perfect CS to win top lane, you just need to have more than they do.
Uhhh, Riven has strong early game. That's kind of her schtick. Her level 2, 3, and 6 are very strong in laning.
In a 1v1 versus melee where she can QWQEQ and take no harass? I agree completely.
I don't see Riven winning against a double lane that has any ranged.
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Yes, I wouldn't take Riven versus 1v2, but it's not really anything to do with how good or bad she is at any aspect of the game. Just a ranged character would be something I'd take.
Yes, I wouldn't take Riven versus 1v2, but it's not really anything to do with how good or bad she is at any aspect of the game. Just a ranged character would be something I'd take.
I keep thinking I really want to buy champs with IP and then realize that I barely get to play a lot of the champs I have as it is. So I just sit on IP/RP.
Though I'll probably be buying Vayne and Sona today, yay RP sales.
Posts
That game was so fun. So.much.fun.
Well, assume you're level 10. Sheen gives you 25 AP so 2.5 damage on your q, plus one proc for ~75 damage. Phage has 18 AD, so makes it up in AA,q,AA,AA. AA,q,AA is something you should be getting off every engagement.
Now you're also going to get some damage on w and e from the Sheen so in terms of pure damage the Sheen is probably better to the tune of 40 damage per combo or so. But Phage also has 225 HP and its slow proc which means if you e in then AA,q,AA you have roughly a 60% chance of landing a slow on that combo. This makes your chase stronger and keeps you in fights longer. The longer a fight goes, the more the damage advantage shifts to the Phage.
People tend to way overestimate the value of Sheen's proc especially in longer engagements like a gank (where you're going to be there a bit since you can't burst them down in a second). Sheen is much much better in lane, where you can use it to increase your poke damage since you're not really going to get a full combo off.
Note: In general(with exception to BT/IE), on characters without specific steroids or on hit procs, attack speed items > Damage items > Burst items when its consistent damage/time you're talking about and burst>damage>attack speed when it comes to poke (as it can reset before the next poke)
It's still pretty bad compared to critplank or tankplank though.
I always tell people that and they usually chime in that's supports job.
So this last game I picked sona and had the map covered in wards.
First time playing sona since I was leveling. Oh man was that fun. Me and Cait pushed in soraka and sivir's shit. I had good ward vision and coverage of the jungler with CV. Even when they were farming at tower I'd make them pay with a Q. End of lane (around 17:00) Cait is up 130-80 in C/S and she's 2/0/2.
I warded their whole jungle, and they couldn't go anywhere.
Maybe I'll do a few games of support sona.
Gunblade + Void Staff for the finisher.
Wow, it's really weird playing the game at low levels again. Guess I blacked out how often I saw someone say "I mid".
That's fine, me and my buddy will duo-lane Yorick/Sticks and have a ball.
Then you look at the third Riot post in the thread, dated 11th April, 2012.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
To be fair, it's not like that changes at level 30 (at least not in solo queue normal draft). Typical chat in a game is
Me: hi all!
1st Pick: I mid
2nd Pick: Mid or I feed
3rd Pick: Top
Me: I guess I'll jungle or AD, but will play wherever
4th Pick: Jungle
Isn't communication grand?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Come watch me on my stream : http://www.own3d.tv/ZeroZedZero
I can never remember which one is latter and which one is former. I think the former would be the first one, right? At least that makes sense to me...
I just use the edge of the screen to move, but I've never tried with MMB. To be fair, most of my mouses have had trouble with that one (and remember that some Win7 configurations set MMB to an alt+tab command which may or may not work mid-game).
You can move the screen? Mine is always locked on to the champion I am playing
You are now free of the training wheels (except they only train bad habits)! 8D
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
No, you man up and get GP5 and last hit under your tower so your team can enjoy the advantage of having a jungler.
I generally allow them to push the lane to me in the beginning, then farm under my tower as much as possible. In lanes like this you will start to out level them fairly quickly, so you need to play VERY safe in the beginning, then once you've got a couple levels on them you can start to harass a bit. At the least, try to remain within xp range of the minion wave and not get completely shut out. CS is important, not dying is much MORE important.
For the champs that I play and at the level that I play, once I'm 2-3 levels above the duo I can take more risks to get that precious farm. Then just farm farm farm. The tower is not worth your life, especially since they'll probably kill you and get the tower after anyway.
Unless they are really dumb, you are not going to win a 1v2 lane early without jungle support, but you can get a level advantage and use that to get farm, and then start eating them.
You're really screwed if it is a CC heavy lane though, especially if they have a toss to get you out from under of your tower.
TL;DR Stay alive, get levels, farm under tower
Edit: I am NOT an expert at this game by any stretch of the imagination, this is just what works for me.
Come watch me on my stream : http://www.own3d.tv/ZeroZedZero
As a rule, one person at level 13 with 60cs (you in the 1v2) and one person at level 11 with 60cs (your jungler) is more useful than two people at level 10 with 40cs (the people you're fighting). The problem you're having is that Irelia and Riven are carries, meaning they have shitty early games and strong late games, if they get farmed. They simply can't stand a 1v2 with any amount of ranged harass; this is neither your fault or the jungler's, it's simply a matter of blind pick being shitty.
Try picking up Olaf, Gangplank, Kennen, or Nidalee to go top for those 1v2 lanes. Brand, Yorick, and Graves would also do pretty well. Just remember that you don't have to have perfect CS to win top lane, you just need to have more than they do.
Come watch me on my stream : http://www.own3d.tv/ZeroZedZero
Uhhh, Riven has strong early game. That's kind of her schtick. Her level 2, 3, and 6 are very strong in laning.
I didnt think someone would actually believe that I had the camera locked :P
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
People always forget the sleeper! Rammus, yo!
Rammus can hold 1v2 top like a boss.
Also, I can't stress enough that getting CS is great, and obviously a high priority. But even higher is positioning. Both your positioning, and the positioning of the enemy minions.
By this, I mean:
A: Keep yourself on the move. If the enemies have skillshots, you NEED to constantly be moving, and looking for them to stutter their champ to line up their skill shot. If they have a targetable skill that's going to hit you no matter what, then it just takes practice to learn how to stay out of that range.
B: Do your best to keep the enemy minions off your tower. Towers can sometimes have the undesired effect of pushing your lane back to the neutral mid-point of your lane. That's a problem, as a 1v2 will keep you zoned out of your exp gain. I say, at the very least, let your tower bash the melee minions, but keep the caster minions out of your tower's range so the lane holds close enough for you to still take exp.
Exp>CS
I'm sure there are many who disagree, but I think if you're going to be harassed by 2 enemies out of your CS, you might as well take the exp.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
yorick was a three week cycle, and it was two weeks after that before they patched him and made him at all usable
so that was five weeks between orianna and a playable (super OP) yorick
I'm okay with it. They just need to have more champs that i want on sale like talon and shyvana
I'm thinking about the long run. How long do they expect to keep releasing new champions? WC3's DotA had what...72 different champs?
How long until their created champs start stepping on the toes of already-existing champs? After this season is over, I'd hope they just focus on releasing new skins on a regular basis.
I understand they need to make their money somewhere, but I think they'd be better off finding new business ventures. Sure, they "reinvented the wheel." But how long until that wheel wears out?
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
current:
Soraka. Then you can trade her to me forever and ever and ever and ever and....
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
I was thinking Shen and Olaf, but the 6300 champs are so enticing.
Would you rather I suggest buying Twitch?
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
Kennen.
In a 1v1 versus melee where she can QWQEQ and take no harass? I agree completely.
I don't see Riven winning against a double lane that has any ranged.
Or Rammus. Because Hargaad said so.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
Out of these, which are your favourites? And are you looking for champs that are similar to or different from your faves?
But that one game is Jungle Ezreal.
twitch.tv/chaoshat
Though I'll probably be buying Vayne and Sona today, yay RP sales.