Cersei's biggest problem is she thinks she is brilliant and she really isn't.
Cersei is smart, but she has no self restraint. She's all fire and no ice. She can plot and scheme with the best of them, but she gets handicapped by her own lack of judgment and self-control. Oh and her inability to control her son.
I don't know how people care that Cat is mean to Jon Snow. It never bothered me at all. Abloo abloo, suck it up Snow! She says one mean thing to him in a moment of extreme distress, and is otherwise cold to her husband's illegitimate child. Ooooh, so evil. pfft. :P
Game of Thrones really have a lot of strong female characters. Is this unusual in fantasy stories? I mean in the Wheel of Time series you also have a lot strong female characters.
GOT is special because it also has a lot of weak female characters. By "weak" I mean flawed. Too often male writers either make their female characters meek non-entities or sassy back-talking omni-competent Mary-Sues. Catelyn's a good example of that; she's basically a good person but screws up a lot and was really mean to Jon Snow. This is what gets her the hate from fans who don't get flawed characters, unless the flaw is "likes killing people way too much."
Yes! It's the multi-faceted nature of the characters that makes GoT so bloody brilliant. Whether with good or bad traits, no characters (at least in my mind) are one dimensional. Something that I noticed was with Cersei's scene with her kids and Sansa. Even though she was being her usual raging thundercunt self, there was an instant where she reminded herself of being forced to marry someone you hated. Just for a moment, there was a glimmer of a soul and her face kinda crumpled up in cognitive dissonance and I was all "OH GOD THIS SHOW IS BRILLIANT".
Cersei's biggest problem is she thinks she is brilliant and she really isn't.
Cersei is smart, but she has no self restraint. She's all fire and no ice. She can plot and scheme with the best of them, but she gets handicapped by her own lack of judgment and self-control. Oh and her inability to control her son.
I don't know how people care that Cat is mean to Jon Snow. It never bothered me at all. Abloo abloo, suck it up Snow! She says one mean thing to him in a moment of extreme distress, and is otherwise cold to her husband's illegitimate child. Ooooh, so evil. pfft. :P
She attacked him for wanting to be there for his brother. What a horrible bitch.
In regards to the strong women conversation, seeing Brienne gives me hope that Arya might have a better future for herself despite being promised to one of the Freys. I mean, it's impossible not to root for her have some semblance of a happy less shitty ending. It would be like watching my little sister get dragged into a horrible life and not being able to help her.
I hate this character.
MKG: There is no way you could hate that character.
What? I do and these are my reasons
MKG: I feel differently about those reasons so you're wrong
Seriously. That is some close-minded bullshit and if you don't see that you need some sort of reality check.
Never said that. You misread on purpose. You can FEEL however you want.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
And on a completely different note, how badass was Yoren?
He got a completely earned "Boromir death" and went out like a boss.
I distinctly recall thinking "Why are they still showing Vaes Dothrak?" during the premiere intro. Did I miss Pentos?
Pentos was in the series premiere.
At the moment we still see Vaes Dothrak because Dany hasn't reached another city yet.
I kind of wish they'd do one for the Dothraki Sea. There wouldn't be much to it I suppose, but it's not like there's much to the one for Vaes Dothrak right now either.
Either way, I'm sure they have their reasons. Based on the promo, I have a strong suspicion we may see a new one for Dany next episode anyway.
I hate this character.
MKG: There is no way you could hate that character.
What? I do and these are my reasons
MKG: I feel differently about those reasons so you're wrong
Seriously. That is some close-minded bullshit and if you don't see that you need some sort of reality check.
Never said that. You misread on purpose. You can FEEL however you want.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
And on a completely different note, how badass was Yoren?
He got a completely earned "Boromir death" and went out like a boss.
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
Woah, that's actually pretty interesting (and not very spoilery at all). I really like the setting of post uber-fantasy they've got going.
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
I must have completely missed this! I was distracted at points during watching though.
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
There's a DVD extra on them in S1.
As best as I can remember it:
They went to war with the First men for cutting down their trees, but soon made peace under the terms that the weirwoods were to be held as sacred. Then the Andals came with their seven pointed blasphemies and took over the south, burning the weirwoods and driving the children out.
Here is where I may be mixing book lore:
Except for the Isle of Many Faces in the God's Eye lake, but I don't recall why.
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
There's a DVD extra on them in S1.
As best as I can remember it:
They went to war with the First men for cutting down their trees, but soon made peace under the terms that the weirwoods were to be held as sacred. Then the Andals came with their seven pointed blasphemies and took over the south, burning the weirwoods and driving the children out.
Here is where I may be mixing book lore:
Except for the Isle of Many Faces in the God's Eye lake, but I don't recall why.
Pretty much! The Children are gone from Westeros, and dragons have been extinct, so magic has been dwindling for a long time. At least, until Daenerys hatched her dragon babies.
That's all that's been covered by the show so far.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I hate this character.
MKG: There is no way you could hate that character.
What? I do and these are my reasons
MKG: I feel differently about those reasons so you're wrong
Seriously. That is some close-minded bullshit and if you don't see that you need some sort of reality check.
Never said that. You misread on purpose. You can FEEL however you want.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
And on a completely different note, how badass was Yoren?
He got a completely earned "Boromir death" and went out like a boss.
Again I DO NOT FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT HER
I'm merely defending that the show offers enough for someone to dislike her. How they express that dislike, however drastic, is ALSO entirely personal and therefore also supported by the show.
How they express that dislike, however drastic, is ALSO entirely personal and therefore also supported by the show.
Yes, it's personal.
No, it's not supportable from the show.
Unless you don't understand how "support" works.
I could totally hate Tyrion because he is a dwarf who sleeps with whores.
Maybe because I have a personal hatred of whoring dwarves.
And this would be SUPPORTED by the show, because he is, in fact, a whoring dwarf.
So what if some people (for whatever reason) react to things on screen different than others.... things that they have their own context on? The show doesn't paint ANY character to be a saint, really. Everyone has flaws, and it is up to the viewer to decide exactly how much we will let those flaws effect our love or hatred of a character.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
So what if some people (for whatever reason) react to things on screen different than others.... things that they have their own context on? The show doesn't paint ANY character to be a saint, really. Everyone has flaws, and it is up to the viewer to decide exactly how much we will let those flaws effect our love or hatred of a character.
So what if some people (for whatever reason) react to things on screen different than others.... things that they have their own context on? The show doesn't paint ANY character to be a saint, really. Everyone has flaws, and it is up to the viewer to decide exactly how much we will let those flaws effect our love or hatred of a character.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you...
what the...
certain things happened in the show. let's focus on one specific thing: catelyn being a dick to jon. the glares. the major dickishness while watching over bran. those things happened.
it is now a matter of viewer perspective whether that makes catelyn a SUPER bitch and whether it means she needs to suffer horribly. there are people who have access to the same data as you and come to another conclusion.
It's funny that fans praise GOT for complexity, but when it includes emotional complexity, they can only interpret it in black and white. Cat did a bad thing. Cat is not a bad person. This is way too hard for a lot of folks.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Man, Cersei is fucking scary.
PSN: Honkalot
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
It is not out of context, it is how much they choose to weigh her actions.
Is it impossible for you to accept that hating or liking a character is subjective?
Are we only supposed to 23% hate Cat right now?
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It's funny that fans praise GOT for complexity, but when it includes emotional complexity, they can only interpret it in black and white. Cat did a bad thing. Cat is not a bad person. This is way too hard for a lot of folks.
Hell, Cat doesn't even do BAD things, she does REALLY STUPID things as random punctuation marks to relatively intelligent and good-natured behavior.
The fun part of Game of Thrones is that the society is ridiculously sexist (much like our own real world in prior centuries), and the female characters have adapted to take power where they can manage it (much like our own real world).
It strives to have realistic societal constructs in a fantasy world, which is actually kinda rare in modern fiction.
Though I do kinda wish that GoT had elves so it could be realistic in how humans would deal with them (i.e. by murdering, raping, and enslaving those self-righteous pricks, just like in Dragon Age).
I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
I'm not sure when or where it gets mentioned in the story, but seeing as how it's generic lore instead of plot relevant stuff I'm going to talk about it.
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
Ah, interesting.
I wasn't sure they were elves, per se.
They are "our elves are different" elves, but they come out like the elves of pre-Tolkien folklore.
certain things happened in the show. let's focus on one specific thing: catelyn being a dick to jon. the glares. the major dickishness while watching over bran. those things happened.
it is now a matter of viewer perspective whether that makes catelyn a SUPER bitch and whether it means she needs to suffer horribly. there are people who have access to the same data as you and come to another conclusion.
What the? The whole conversation came up when I asked someone why they hated Cat and their response was to misrepresent events or take them out of context to justify it.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
That underlined part? That's where misrepresenting things and taking them out of context comes in.
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Madpandasuburbs west of chicagoRegistered Userregular
Am I loosing it or was Yara Grejyoy called Asha in the books?
certain things happened in the show. let's focus on one specific thing: catelyn being a dick to jon. the glares. the major dickishness while watching over bran. those things happened.
it is now a matter of viewer perspective whether that makes catelyn a SUPER bitch and whether it means she needs to suffer horribly. there are people who have access to the same data as you and come to another conclusion.
What the? The whole conversation came up when I asked someone why they hated Cat and their response was to misrepresent events or take them out of context to justify it.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
That underlined part? That's where misrepresenting things and taking them out of context comes in.
i truly don't understand the point you're making right now. do you legitimately not believe that there are multiple interpretations that might exist? the text of the show supports any number of conclusions depending upon the viewer and his or her lens. it seems like you feel the show offers data to support X outcome and all non-X outcomes are not just wrong but... objectively not possible to conclude from the data shown?
all these people are working off is the data they're shown!
It's funny that fans praise GOT for complexity, but when it includes emotional complexity, they can only interpret it in black and white. Cat did a bad thing. Cat is not a bad person. This is way too hard for a lot of folks.
You're right. The wonderful depth of the show allows some of us to hate characters that others love. That's the beauty of it. If someone wants Cat to die, it's all on their interpretation of what's happened.
I, for one, want Theon to die a cruel death. Other people love him. I can't stand his stupid doody face. Others find him attractive? Maybe?
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certain things happened in the show. let's focus on one specific thing: catelyn being a dick to jon. the glares. the major dickishness while watching over bran. those things happened.
it is now a matter of viewer perspective whether that makes catelyn a SUPER bitch and whether it means she needs to suffer horribly. there are people who have access to the same data as you and come to another conclusion.
What the? The whole conversation came up when I asked someone why they hated Cat and their response was to misrepresent events or take them out of context to justify it.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
That underlined part? That's where misrepresenting things and taking them out of context comes in.
i truly don't understand the point you're making right now. do you legitimately not believe that there are multiple interpretations that might exist? the text of the show supports any number of conclusions depending upon the viewer and his or her lens. it seems like you feel the show offers data to support X outcome and all non-X outcomes are not just wrong but... objectively not possible to conclude from the data shown?
all these people are working off is the data they're shown!
He's claiming that they absolutely 100% must be a Dirty Filthy Book Reader if they came to that conclusion about Catelyn.
I am probably a little biased in that Catelyn is on my list of characters I most want to suffer horribly:
Why?
1. She kidnapped my favorite character and took him to an insane madhouse and was pissed when he managed to walk out alive.
2. Like Ned Stark she walks around with an holier than thou attitude even when asking for help(and unlike Ned Stark she isn't actually holier than thou).
3. The way she treated Jon does not sit well with me. I know what it feels like to live in a house where somebody hates you so badly that the hate permeates the walls.
4. Honestly the only differences I see between her and Cersei is that she is not screwing her brother and Robb is not a piece of shit like Joffery.
Those seem like book quibbles because there's definitely not enough in the show to support that hate.
Who's trolling? That has been your argument the entire time, don't back away from it now.
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Cersei is smart, but she has no self restraint. She's all fire and no ice. She can plot and scheme with the best of them, but she gets handicapped by her own lack of judgment and self-control. Oh and her inability to control her son.
I don't know how people care that Cat is mean to Jon Snow. It never bothered me at all. Abloo abloo, suck it up Snow! She says one mean thing to him in a moment of extreme distress, and is otherwise cold to her husband's illegitimate child. Ooooh, so evil. pfft. :P
Yes! It's the multi-faceted nature of the characters that makes GoT so bloody brilliant. Whether with good or bad traits, no characters (at least in my mind) are one dimensional. Something that I noticed was with Cersei's scene with her kids and Sansa. Even though she was being her usual raging thundercunt self, there was an instant where she reminded herself of being forced to marry someone you hated. Just for a moment, there was a glimmer of a soul and her face kinda crumpled up in cognitive dissonance and I was all "OH GOD THIS SHOW IS BRILLIANT".
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She attacked him for wanting to be there for his brother. What a horrible bitch.
She was 9/10ths mad with grief and exhaustion at the time, and I think Jon understood this.
Never said that. You misread on purpose. You can FEEL however you want.
I said calling her a a "SUPER bitch" who needs to "suffer horribly" is an opinion completely on you and not backed up by the show. The text of the show simply does not support such a ridiculous conclusion without a crazy amount of mental gymnastics involved.
And on a completely different note, how badass was Yoren?
Pentos was in the series premiere.
At the moment we still see Vaes Dothrak because Dany hasn't reached another city yet.
I kind of wish they'd do one for the Dothraki Sea. There wouldn't be much to it I suppose, but it's not like there's much to the one for Vaes Dothrak right now either.
Either way, I'm sure they have their reasons. Based on the promo, I have a strong suspicion we may see a new one for Dany next episode anyway.
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I don't think it's out-of-line to say this, but spoilering anyway
They did have elves, the elves "withdrew" a long, long time ago. Whether they withdrew like Native Americans or like Tolkien elves is still unclear, but genocide makes the most sense.
Woah, that's actually pretty interesting (and not very spoilery at all). I really like the setting of post uber-fantasy they've got going.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
The Children of the Forrest and their withdrawal were discussed (in passing) last episode
I must have completely missed this! I was distracted at points during watching though.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Ah, interesting.
There's a DVD extra on them in S1.
As best as I can remember it:
Here is where I may be mixing book lore:
Pretty much! The Children are gone from Westeros, and dragons have been extinct, so magic has been dwindling for a long time. At least, until Daenerys hatched her dragon babies.
That's all that's been covered by the show so far.
Again I DO NOT FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT HER
I'm merely defending that the show offers enough for someone to dislike her. How they express that dislike, however drastic, is ALSO entirely personal and therefore also supported by the show.
Yes.
Yes, it's personal.
No, it's not supported by the show. Textual evidence either exists or it doesn't.
I could totally hate Tyrion because he is a dwarf who sleeps with whores.
Maybe because I have a personal hatred of whoring dwarves.
And this would be SUPPORTED by the show, because he is, in fact, a whoring dwarf.
So what if some people (for whatever reason) react to things on screen different than others.... things that they have their own context on? The show doesn't paint ANY character to be a saint, really. Everyone has flaws, and it is up to the viewer to decide exactly how much we will let those flaws effect our love or hatred of a character.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
what the...
certain things happened in the show. let's focus on one specific thing: catelyn being a dick to jon. the glares. the major dickishness while watching over bran. those things happened.
it is now a matter of viewer perspective whether that makes catelyn a SUPER bitch and whether it means she needs to suffer horribly. there are people who have access to the same data as you and come to another conclusion.
Is it impossible for you to accept that hating or liking a character is subjective?
Are we only supposed to 23% hate Cat right now?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Hell, Cat doesn't even do BAD things, she does REALLY STUPID things as random punctuation marks to relatively intelligent and good-natured behavior.
What the? The whole conversation came up when I asked someone why they hated Cat and their response was to misrepresent events or take them out of context to justify it.
That underlined part? That's where misrepresenting things and taking them out of context comes in.
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Name changes, as to not cause confusion with other *sha characters.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
i truly don't understand the point you're making right now. do you legitimately not believe that there are multiple interpretations that might exist? the text of the show supports any number of conclusions depending upon the viewer and his or her lens. it seems like you feel the show offers data to support X outcome and all non-X outcomes are not just wrong but... objectively not possible to conclude from the data shown?
all these people are working off is the data they're shown!
No; they changed it because of the similarity to the wildling with Bran, Osha.
Name changed supposedly to avoid confusion with Osha.
You're right. The wonderful depth of the show allows some of us to hate characters that others love. That's the beauty of it. If someone wants Cat to die, it's all on their interpretation of what's happened.
I, for one, want Theon to die a cruel death. Other people love him. I can't stand his stupid doody face. Others find him attractive? Maybe?
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He's claiming that they absolutely 100% must be a Dirty Filthy Book Reader if they came to that conclusion about Catelyn.
Which is pretty silly and goosey.
Bad troll is bad.
Cat is in the "disapproving mom" character stereotype, but she is also hot-headed and impulsive, which just DOES NOT MIX to a lot of people.
I'm glad that the writers were able to avoid confusion regarding the name that Theon's sister goes by.
Who's trolling? That has been your argument the entire time, don't back away from it now.