So the picture I'm getting here is that no matter what else a company does, we need to tear them down for supporting things we do not support.
I mean, Christ. I'm for gay rights. I don't like what the Chick-fil-a CEO did. But I think some bloody perspective is needed here. The world is not as simple as, "People supporting things I do not support must be brought down and trampled upon." Or at least, it shouldn't be.
EDIT: Never mind. Continue with the crusade, I'm out.
There's a difference between "supporting things we don't support" and "donating $5 million to prevent a group of people from sharing rights others have."
Don't forget, the Family Research Council also advocates to keep homosexuality illegal (often with jail or death sentences) in other countries.
Too harsh a punishment for mild harassment. Way too harsh.
Fuck him. People who pick on minimum wage employees of that sort are some of the lowest types of scum.
It's like beating up a child. You know they can't fight back and they are just there doing shit work for as little money as the company can get away with.
So the picture I'm getting here is that no matter what else a company does, we need to tear them down for supporting things we do not support.
I mean, Christ. I'm for gay rights. I don't like what the Chick-fil-a CEO did. But I think some bloody perspective is needed here. The world is not as simple as, "People supporting things I do not support must be brought down and trampled upon." Or at least, it shouldn't be.
EDIT: Never mind. Continue with the crusade, I'm out.
If Chik-fil-a was somehow supporting anti0-gay legislation in a hugely complex way. Perhaps through some difficult to understand derivatives scheme that was hard to disentangle the company from and also being a great company then perhaps this would be unwarranted. But in fact its trivial to stop. Just stop donating to hate groups. It's easy to do. Just don't write the next check, or the one after that.
If an evil act is TRIVIAL to avoid, then you don't get to say 'Oh, I counterbalanced it over here'. No amount of saving lives lets you get away with stabbing a man in the face for no reason.
Too harsh a punishment for mild harassment. Way too harsh.
Well, that is one opinion of course. However if you are high enough rank in a company you don't get freebies when you go out of your way to make an ass out of yourself. It isn't like this guy was caught being a dick. He recorded himself being a dick to someone for no reason and then was proud to upload it. I wouldn't want someone who does shit like that working for me.
Too harsh a punishment for mild harassment. Way too harsh.
Fuck him. People who pick on minimum wage employees of that sort are some of the lowest types of scum.
It's like beating up a child. You know they can't fight back and they are just there doing shit work for as little money as the company can get away with.
Disagree. This company this Smith guy worked for cut him loose to preserve their neutral image or else they would risk losing customers. But Smith didn't mention his company in his douchey, impotent tirade. Smith was speaking his mind as an individual and I think an apology letter and a stern warning would have smoothed things over well enough. Firing him reeks of panic.
Too harsh a punishment for mild harassment. Way too harsh.
Fuck him. People who pick on minimum wage employees of that sort are some of the lowest types of scum.
It's like beating up a child. You know they can't fight back and they are just there doing shit work for as little money as the company can get away with.
Disagree. This company this Smith guy worked for cut him loose to preserve their neutral image or else they would risk losing customers. But Smith didn't mention his company in his douchey, impotent tirade. Smith was speaking his mind as an individual and I think an apology letter and a stern warning would have smoothed things over well enough. Firing him reeks of panic.
That I'd agree with. He's a asshole, but that's no reason for him to lose his job.
Then again, that's what you get for being stupid enough to upload your assholitude to the world. Welcome to the internet dipshit.
Wasn't CFA money tied to the Uganda "Kill gay people" bill?
The reports I've seen are that they donated to lobby against the US condemning the Ugandan bill. So basically they paid money so that the US wouldn't shame Uganda.
I have yet to see anything that has stated they gave money to the Ugandan country, but if such a link exists, I'd be happy to see it.
Wasn't CFA money tied to the Uganda "Kill gay people" bill?
The reports I've seen are that they donated to lobby against the US condemning the Ugandan bill. So basically they paid money so that the US wouldn't shame Uganda.
I have yet to see anything that has stated they gave money to the Ugandan country, but if such a link exists, I'd be happy to see it.
I'm not really sure how relevant that distinction is.
I'm not saying it's definitely not relevant, but I'm having trouble placing "pay money to have another government have people killed" with "try to stop the powerful who would speak out against the killing" too far apart on my Rainbow Spectrum of Morality. They are both pretty dark and contribute to it being acceptable to kill people.
I mean, I get the gut feeling that the latter is more removed, but the more I look at it the more arbitrary that is. Both are paying in an attempt to create an environment where people will die. That's seems to be a pretty suboptimal moral choice.
Gonna have to agree that the company went over the line firing the drive-thru guy. Yeah, the guy was an ass for harassing a minimum wage employee and then posting it on the net, but he did not mention his employer and thus didn't technically do any harm to said employer. I'm really uneasy about the idea of letting businesses get in the habit of firing people for boneheaded things because some lame ass loser might figure out who employs those morons. See the issue is then that effectively curtails people's freedom of expression because they'd never be allowed to voice their opinion, since doing so would be enough grounds for their boss to fire them.
CFOs make a shitload of money, I am sure he is going to be fine.
o_O
I'm just saying, if the guy was smart with his money he shouldn't be scrounging right away, and with his resume he should be fine. Just ya know, maybe stay off youtube for a bit.
Like are you seriously suggesting a specific chicken sandwich is as important to people's daily lives as pretty much every modern computer device?
I don't buy Apple or Nike products to avoid funding slavery. I've been thinking about adding cane sugar to that list, but that seems a little out of date.
Also, people did give Apple lots of shit for Foxconn, and rightfully so. Apple is still working to change the conditions there. However Apple can hardly snap its fingers and change China's labor laws or build new factories in a different country. CFA can stop donating to hate groups today.
Furthermore, if you want to buy any sort of computer, whether from Apple or Dell or HP or whoever, it's getting made by Foxconn. Apple just caught the brunt of the bad PR, but customers basically had little to no choice of non-Foxconn-made computers. I can find a fried chicken sandwich not made by bigots pretty easily.
Basically what I'm saying is your Foxconn comparison is a pile of shit.
]No, I feel pretty confident that their treatment of their straight employees doesn't outweigh their promotion of violent hatred at all.
Somehow, I feel nothing regarding straight people is ever actually going to matter to some people.
What does this even mean.
Part of the Foxconn thing is bs. Apple was knowingly working with them until they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, and was promoting slave labor by working with that business, even if Steve Jobs didn't have a "fuck the poor" shirt on. Its the same with all of the chocolate companies that buy their chocolate from slave labor practices and will continue to do so until it is politically inconvenient fro them to do so. The point here is that the first world lifestyle is pretty much built on the fucking over of other people and the horrific practices of the corporations, which is what the point of that Daily Show skit was the other day. hell, until caught and called out companies lobby for their tax benefits and the support to create these slave markets.
You can find bigotry free chicken pretty easily, but what about chocolate? How about chicken that's not super processed, abused, and grown in chicken factories? How about fruits and vegetables that were grown on the backs of overworked illegal immigrants who work for shit pay or from governments that are puppets of Western powers?
Though I think at this point I'm digressing from the LGBT thread, other than the fact that we support horrible practices, ethics, and beliefs every time we go to the gas station, let alone a fast food restaurant.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Like are you seriously suggesting a specific chicken sandwich is as important to people's daily lives as pretty much every modern computer device?
I don't buy Apple or Nike products to avoid funding slavery. I've been thinking about adding cane sugar to that list, but that seems a little out of date.
I mean, that's fine, but if your beef with Apple is with Foxconn then you also need to boycott (according to wiki) Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and Vizio. That's most of the electronics in the country (seems like Google's stuff is good). Boycotting all of those is possible, but a much bigger pill to swallow for a lot of people, and almost impossible for a lot of businesses.
Compare that to boycotting CFA - note: not avoiding all fast food or chicken sandwiches, one specific fast food chain. The two are only comparable on a stupidly reductive level.
All ignoring the fact that Apple (and I wouldn't be surprised to see other clients as well) is working to improve the conditions in Foxconn factories. I haven't seen any effort by CFA or the CEO to walk back or change its ways - quite the opposite.
Like are you seriously suggesting a specific chicken sandwich is as important to people's daily lives as pretty much every modern computer device?
I don't buy Apple or Nike products to avoid funding slavery. I've been thinking about adding cane sugar to that list, but that seems a little out of date.
I mean, that's fine, but if your beef with Apple is with Foxconn then you also need to boycott (according to wiki) Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and Vizio. That's most of the electronics in the country (seems like Google's stuff is good). Boycotting all of those is possible, but a much bigger pill to swallow for a lot of people, and almost impossible for a lot of businesses.
Compare that to boycotting CFA - note: not avoiding all fast food or chicken sandwiches, one specific fast food chain. The two are only comparable on a stupidly reductive level.
All ignoring the fact that Apple (and I wouldn't be surprised to see other clients as well) is working to improve the conditions in Foxconn factories. I haven't seen any effort by CFA or the CEO to walk back or change its ways - quite the opposite.
Yeah, but were any of the companies concerned about Foxconn before they got called out on it? Also, while I doubt asshole CEO is going to change his opinion, how long after being called out was it before Apple noticeably (not just saying they were going to) change their business practices and start changing factories?
Part of me is curious what the heirarchy of Chik-Fil-A is, because if I was on part of the managerial board or some other decently high position I would be absolutely pissed at the stance my CEO just took, if at the very least because taking any controversial political stance by a company has a chance to fuck you over hardcore. At this point I have to profess my ignorance and ask: why the hell did the CEO even say this? All I heard was that it was said, and then shit storm.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
As far as I can tell CFA is privately held and Truett is the CEO/founder with two sons as execs, it's him and one other person on the board, so he can pretty much run his business however he damn well pleases. No shareholders to hold him accountable, and he can do whatever he wants with corporate profits (no dividends etc.). We all know what he does with at least some of them.
So I mean, it's not like they are running around shouting "DIE GAYS DIE" - they clearly made their separation from the opinions of their CEO.
Got a hold of my friend who works at the local chick-fil-a because I heard Aug 1st was pretty good for business. And I quote "We fucking ran out of everything before 4pm - the amount of money we made was ludicrous." So ya know, lashing out like people did clearly didn't help their goal here especially when you consider the company isn't flying an anti-gay flag like some people are making it out to be.
So I mean, it's not like they are running around shouting "DIE GAYS DIE" - they clearly made their separation from the opinions of their CEO.
Got a hold of my friend who works at the local chick-fil-a because I heard Aug 1st was pretty good for business. And I quote "We fucking ran out of everything before 4pm - the amount of money we made was ludicrous." So ya know, lashing out like people did clearly didn't help their goal here especially when you consider the company isn't flying an anti-gay flag like some people are making it out to be.
The backlash against the boycott will be forgotten and ignored soon enough.
The boycott and PR issues will just keep on trucking though.
One gay employee who works at Chick-fil-A headquarters in Atlanta, Ga., and asked to remain anonymous for fear of losing his job, says he is getting it from both sides. On the one hand, there is the customer who came in and said he supported Dan Cathy and then "continues to say something truly homophobic, e.g. 'I'm so glad you don't support the queers, I can eat in peace,'" the employee, who is 23 and has worked for Chick-fil-A since he was 16, wrote in an email. On the other hand, he continued, "I was yelled at for being a god-loving, conservative, homophobic Christian while walking some food out to a guest in a mall dining room."
He disagrees with Cathy's views, but the reaction from the public has been just as hard to swallow.
"It seems like very few people have stopped to think about who actually works for Chick-fil-A and what those people's opinions are," he wrote. "They are putting us in a pot and coming to support us or hate us based on something they heard and assume we agree with."
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
So I mean, it's not like they are running around shouting "DIE GAYS DIE" - they clearly made their separation from the opinions of their CEO.
No they didn't. No one ever accused them of "not serving everyone." They killed a strawman there.
Their words were "our intent is to leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena." Leaving "the policy debate" means "please stop talking about us being bigots, it's hurting our business." Nowhere do they say they're not doing donations anymore.
What they do say is "Chick-fil-A is a family-owned and family-led company" - and that family is anti-gay and donates to hate groups. They haven't changed a thing; they just want people to stop talking about this please.
That makes me sad, but unsurprised. I'm actually surprised that nothing horrible happened to them during the arresting though, at least by the sounds of it.
Also:
When they were in jail for the first time, they recall the inmates being utterly awestruck that, in 2012, someone could be arrested for trying to marry the person they love.
Either they did not tell the inmates they were gay (unlikely considering how fast other inmates find out what you were arrested for, this is why my jail separated inmates charged with child molestation from the other inmates) or the Dallas holding cell and general holding cell inmates are a lot more tolerant than the inmates I dealt with. Which if true, is heartening.
Dumb that this man was fired over the video. He was a douchebag in it, but also her towing the company line doesnt help when it goes like this "were happy to serve any customer" "well yeah, when the profits end up directly hindering the ones you dont like"
This is just the dumbest fucking thing. If you want to support a cause, do it. Corporations do not need "appreciation days". Take that 5$, dont drink a coffee and donate to your cause directly. This is like when yoplait let you mail in yogurt tops 1 per envelope and they would donate 30 cents to breast cancer, and stamps cost something in the 40 cent range.
Having had a grandparent that use to be a nurse for a prison, I can confirm that the two groups that have to worry the most about being shanked by their fellow inmates are child molesters and terrorists. I gather info on why someone is in jail does get around quickly to the inmate population.
Apparently, there is a good deal of speculation that stances on gay marriage may prove critical in a number of election races this year. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on DOMA biting the dust when it comes up in court and that fundies will be forced to deal with the fact that homosexuals can marry anywhere in the US after that ruling.
Having had a grandparent that use to be a nurse for a prison, I can confirm that the two groups that have to worry the most about being shanked by their fellow inmates are child molesters and terrorists. I gather info on why someone is in jail does get around quickly to the inmate population.
Apparently, there is a good deal of speculation that stances on gay marriage may prove critical in a number of election races this year. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on DOMA biting the dust when it comes up in court and that fundies will be forced to deal with the fact that homosexuals can marry anywhere in the US after that ruling.
After gay marriage is legal in all US territories, gay marriage will cease to exist. It will just be marriage from that point on.
Hopefully, by 2016 the whole anti-gay thing will be so politically toxic that vast majority of politicians will stop harping about it. I'm pretty sure it won't go the route abortion went where one party keeps the issue alive as a cheap means to garner votes.
Posts
Don't forget, the Family Research Council also advocates to keep homosexuality illegal (often with jail or death sentences) in other countries.
Too harsh a punishment for mild harassment. Way too harsh.
Fuck him. People who pick on minimum wage employees of that sort are some of the lowest types of scum.
It's like beating up a child. You know they can't fight back and they are just there doing shit work for as little money as the company can get away with.
The dude was a CFO for a medical supplies company. Way to throw that shit away.
If Chik-fil-a was somehow supporting anti0-gay legislation in a hugely complex way. Perhaps through some difficult to understand derivatives scheme that was hard to disentangle the company from and also being a great company then perhaps this would be unwarranted. But in fact its trivial to stop. Just stop donating to hate groups. It's easy to do. Just don't write the next check, or the one after that.
If an evil act is TRIVIAL to avoid, then you don't get to say 'Oh, I counterbalanced it over here'. No amount of saving lives lets you get away with stabbing a man in the face for no reason.
And he's in Tucson, too. Is the Arizona economy still crap? I'm at a loss for words.
Well, that is one opinion of course. However if you are high enough rank in a company you don't get freebies when you go out of your way to make an ass out of yourself. It isn't like this guy was caught being a dick. He recorded himself being a dick to someone for no reason and then was proud to upload it. I wouldn't want someone who does shit like that working for me.
Disagree. This company this Smith guy worked for cut him loose to preserve their neutral image or else they would risk losing customers. But Smith didn't mention his company in his douchey, impotent tirade. Smith was speaking his mind as an individual and I think an apology letter and a stern warning would have smoothed things over well enough. Firing him reeks of panic.
That I'd agree with. He's a asshole, but that's no reason for him to lose his job.
Then again, that's what you get for being stupid enough to upload your assholitude to the world. Welcome to the internet dipshit.
Yep.
The reports I've seen are that they donated to lobby against the US condemning the Ugandan bill. So basically they paid money so that the US wouldn't shame Uganda.
I have yet to see anything that has stated they gave money to the Ugandan country, but if such a link exists, I'd be happy to see it.
I'm not really sure how relevant that distinction is.
I'm not saying it's definitely not relevant, but I'm having trouble placing "pay money to have another government have people killed" with "try to stop the powerful who would speak out against the killing" too far apart on my Rainbow Spectrum of Morality. They are both pretty dark and contribute to it being acceptable to kill people.
I mean, I get the gut feeling that the latter is more removed, but the more I look at it the more arbitrary that is. Both are paying in an attempt to create an environment where people will die. That's seems to be a pretty suboptimal moral choice.
o_O
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
I can't for the life of my figure out why this link doesn't work. The forums are adding in their url before the link I posted. The hell?
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
I'm just saying, if the guy was smart with his money he shouldn't be scrounging right away, and with his resume he should be fine. Just ya know, maybe stay off youtube for a bit.
I don't buy Apple or Nike products to avoid funding slavery. I've been thinking about adding cane sugar to that list, but that seems a little out of date.
Part of the Foxconn thing is bs. Apple was knowingly working with them until they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, and was promoting slave labor by working with that business, even if Steve Jobs didn't have a "fuck the poor" shirt on. Its the same with all of the chocolate companies that buy their chocolate from slave labor practices and will continue to do so until it is politically inconvenient fro them to do so. The point here is that the first world lifestyle is pretty much built on the fucking over of other people and the horrific practices of the corporations, which is what the point of that Daily Show skit was the other day. hell, until caught and called out companies lobby for their tax benefits and the support to create these slave markets.
You can find bigotry free chicken pretty easily, but what about chocolate? How about chicken that's not super processed, abused, and grown in chicken factories? How about fruits and vegetables that were grown on the backs of overworked illegal immigrants who work for shit pay or from governments that are puppets of Western powers?
Though I think at this point I'm digressing from the LGBT thread, other than the fact that we support horrible practices, ethics, and beliefs every time we go to the gas station, let alone a fast food restaurant.
I mean, that's fine, but if your beef with Apple is with Foxconn then you also need to boycott (according to wiki) Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and Vizio. That's most of the electronics in the country (seems like Google's stuff is good). Boycotting all of those is possible, but a much bigger pill to swallow for a lot of people, and almost impossible for a lot of businesses.
Compare that to boycotting CFA - note: not avoiding all fast food or chicken sandwiches, one specific fast food chain. The two are only comparable on a stupidly reductive level.
All ignoring the fact that Apple (and I wouldn't be surprised to see other clients as well) is working to improve the conditions in Foxconn factories. I haven't seen any effort by CFA or the CEO to walk back or change its ways - quite the opposite.
Yeah, but were any of the companies concerned about Foxconn before they got called out on it? Also, while I doubt asshole CEO is going to change his opinion, how long after being called out was it before Apple noticeably (not just saying they were going to) change their business practices and start changing factories?
Part of me is curious what the heirarchy of Chik-Fil-A is, because if I was on part of the managerial board or some other decently high position I would be absolutely pissed at the stance my CEO just took, if at the very least because taking any controversial political stance by a company has a chance to fuck you over hardcore. At this point I have to profess my ignorance and ask: why the hell did the CEO even say this? All I heard was that it was said, and then shit storm.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-controversy-responds_n_1686682.html
So I mean, it's not like they are running around shouting "DIE GAYS DIE" - they clearly made their separation from the opinions of their CEO.
Got a hold of my friend who works at the local chick-fil-a because I heard Aug 1st was pretty good for business. And I quote "We fucking ran out of everything before 4pm - the amount of money we made was ludicrous." So ya know, lashing out like people did clearly didn't help their goal here especially when you consider the company isn't flying an anti-gay flag like some people are making it out to be.
@never die UPDATE: I was right.
Steam
http://www.thegavoice.com/blog/culture/5000-atlanta-lgbt-activists-plan-national-starbucks-appreciation-day
The backlash against the boycott will be forgotten and ignored soon enough.
The boycott and PR issues will just keep on trucking though.
A quote:
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
No they didn't. No one ever accused them of "not serving everyone." They killed a strawman there.
Their words were "our intent is to leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena." Leaving "the policy debate" means "please stop talking about us being bigots, it's hurting our business." Nowhere do they say they're not doing donations anymore.
What they do say is "Chick-fil-A is a family-owned and family-led company" - and that family is anti-gay and donates to hate groups. They haven't changed a thing; they just want people to stop talking about this please.
That makes me sad, but unsurprised. I'm actually surprised that nothing horrible happened to them during the arresting though, at least by the sounds of it.
Also:
Either they did not tell the inmates they were gay (unlikely considering how fast other inmates find out what you were arrested for, this is why my jail separated inmates charged with child molestation from the other inmates) or the Dallas holding cell and general holding cell inmates are a lot more tolerant than the inmates I dealt with. Which if true, is heartening.
This is just the dumbest fucking thing. If you want to support a cause, do it. Corporations do not need "appreciation days". Take that 5$, dont drink a coffee and donate to your cause directly. This is like when yoplait let you mail in yogurt tops 1 per envelope and they would donate 30 cents to breast cancer, and stamps cost something in the 40 cent range.
Apparently, there is a good deal of speculation that stances on gay marriage may prove critical in a number of election races this year. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on DOMA biting the dust when it comes up in court and that fundies will be forced to deal with the fact that homosexuals can marry anywhere in the US after that ruling.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
After gay marriage is legal in all US territories, gay marriage will cease to exist. It will just be marriage from that point on.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Sears.
That is way harsh bro