People were honestly expecting a HL3 announcement?
I was skeptical, but come on. A weeklong announcement with a countdown timer and everything? And the the biggest bomb was dropped on Wednesday but we didn't know it yet, we were expecting an even bigger bomb than Steam Machine.
A new way to play every single game in your library seems like a big bomb drop to me.
I wonder if we will be able to use the mouse wheel pads to give multiple commands each, ie I can scroll up and down on each pad, scrolling up and down on the right one controls rpms while scrolling up and down on the left one controls throttle
If it's mimicking an actual mousewheel, probably not. Regardless of which way you actually spin the thing, one is always gonna be Scroll Up and the other Scroll Down.
It seems like they want the trackpad to mimic the pointing of a mouse for mouse/keyboard games and a thumbstick for console games. Why not make the controller 1 thumbstick + 1 trackpad? It's not like any game is built for 2 mouses. Unless they think these newfangled trackpads really will be better than thumbsticks?
I don't think they would go with this controller without having done some extensive testing, if I know Valve at all. If they thought it sucked it wouldn't be getting made.
I just noticed that the steam logo, option button, and message bubble in the first screenshot are replaced by the four buttons at the bottom, or maybe its a removable/loosable piece for the controller?
I just noticed that the steam logo, option button, and message bubble in the first screenshot are replaced by the four buttons at the bottom, or maybe its a removable/loosable piece for the controller?
The last shot is the beta/demo controller for testing/developing and the others are just renders.
What is it with everyone trying to change up controllers lately?
We've been using controllers for decades, you know why? Because they work. Everyone is trying to "reinvent" the controller with motion controls or cameras or gesture based shit, because every company wants to be the company that reinvented the wheel. We had waggle that didn't work. We had Kinect that didn't work. We had Move that didn't work. You know what works great? The seventeen buttons and two sticks that are already included in a regular gamepad.
It's fucking dumb.
Okay well they wanted a way for a person to be able to sit on the couch and play Steam games without a mouse/keybaord.
That already exists in the form of a wireless controller. Many companies have already solved this problem.
Really? Holy shit I didn't realize I could play every game with a wireless controller!
I didn't realize I could play Rome: Total War with Joy2Key flawlessly. Or really any mouse/keyboard intensive strategy game. TIL.
If the game can't be played using controller mapping right now, nothing is going to change on a new gamepad. Haptic feedback and a small touchscreen aren't going to magically make RTS games any more playable on a controller than they are now. All they did was add more buttons.
Right now Rome:TW doesn't recognize a controller's thumbsticks as mouse input (as far as I know). With the Steam Controller it supposedly will. Now sure, playing it might be awkward but it would be possible. And people can learn how to play all sorts of shit with a controller that was never intended. I hear the Halo RTS game wasn't bad with a controller, so who knows?
Some games aren't going to ever be playable solely with a controller. There is only so much functionality you can get out of a handful of buttons. A better bet would have been to work with devs on upcoming games to make sure that as many releases going forward would have full controller support (as the amount of people using BPM or SteamOS is going going to grow).
You can't just throw hardware at a software problem and expect it to go away, you have to fix it at the development level.
I just noticed that the steam logo, option button, and message bubble in the first screenshot are replaced by the four buttons at the bottom, or maybe its a removable/loosable piece for the controller?
Almost like there's a FAQ right next to that picture that explains what's going on.
How will the beta controller differ from the one that’s for sale next year?
There are a couple important differences: the first 300 or so beta units won’t include a touch screen, and they won’t be wireless. Instead, they’ll have four buttons in place of the touch screen, and they’ll require a USB cable.
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1. I have never used a trackpad that had any precision or accuracy to it; the addition of vibration to the touch surface, no matter how subtle, seems like it would only decrease accuracy, not increase it. I am completely pessimistic about this "feature".
2. I'm fine with the idea of buttons on the back, but there does not appear to be enough of them.
First button Wheatley asks you to push is the jump button. It's not on this diagram.
What is it with everyone trying to change up controllers lately?
We've been using controllers for decades, you know why? Because they work. Everyone is trying to "reinvent" the controller with motion controls or cameras or gesture based shit, because every company wants to be the company that reinvented the wheel. We had waggle that didn't work. We had Kinect that didn't work. We had Move that didn't work. You know what works great? The seventeen buttons and two sticks that are already included in a regular gamepad.
It's fucking dumb.
Okay well they wanted a way for a person to be able to sit on the couch and play Steam games without a mouse/keybaord.
That already exists in the form of a wireless controller. Many companies have already solved this problem.
Really? Holy shit I didn't realize I could play every game with a wireless controller!
I didn't realize I could play Rome: Total War with Joy2Key flawlessly. Or really any mouse/keyboard intensive strategy game. TIL.
If the game can't be played using controller mapping right now, nothing is going to change on a new gamepad. Haptic feedback and a small touchscreen aren't going to magically make RTS games any more playable on a controller than they are now. All they did was add more buttons.
Right now Rome:TW doesn't recognize a controller's thumbsticks as mouse input (as far as I know). With the Steam Controller it supposedly will. Now sure, playing it might be awkward but it would be possible. And people can learn how to play all sorts of shit with a controller that was never intended. I hear the Halo RTS game wasn't bad with a controller, so who knows?
Some games aren't going to ever be playable solely with a controller. There is only so much functionality you can get out of a handful of buttons. A better bet would have been to work with devs on upcoming games to make sure that as many releases going forward would have full controller support (as the amount of people using BPM or SteamOS is going going to grow).
You can't just throw hardware at a software problem and expect it to go away, you have to fix it at the development level.
Doesn't mean a controller can't be designed to function with more games than conventional designs.
1. I have never used a trackpad that had any precision or accuracy to it; the addition of vibration to the touch surface, no matter how subtle, seems like it would only decrease accuracy, not increase it. I am completely pessimistic about this "feature".
2. I'm fine with the idea of buttons on the back, but there does not appear to be enough of them.
[img]http://cdn2.store.steampowere d.com/public/images/promo/livingroom/rljKewyz3M/controller_bindings.jpg[/img]
First button Wheatley asks you to push is the jump button. It's not on this diagram.
1. I have never used a trackpad that had any precision or accuracy to it; the addition of vibration to the touch surface, no matter how subtle, seems like it would only decrease accuracy, not increase it. I am completely pessimistic about this "feature".
2. I'm fine with the idea of buttons on the back, but there does not appear to be enough of them.
First button Wheatley asks you to push is the jump button. It's not on this diagram.
They included it in movement. I only realised just now, but SP... is short for space. Would have been better if it wasn't cut off.
1. I have never used a trackpad that had any precision or accuracy to it; the addition of vibration to the touch surface, no matter how subtle, seems like it would only decrease accuracy, not increase it. I am completely pessimistic about this "feature".
2. I'm fine with the idea of buttons on the back, but there does not appear to be enough of them.
First button Wheatley asks you to push is the jump button. It's not on this diagram.
Probably ran out of space on the chart, but it looks like the "click" icon on the left one is saying "SPACE BAR", which would follow how they're translating specific keyboard commands to buttons on the controller.
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1. I have never used a trackpad that had any precision or accuracy to it; the addition of vibration to the touch surface, no matter how subtle, seems like it would only decrease accuracy, not increase it. I am completely pessimistic about this "feature".
2. I'm fine with the idea of buttons on the back, but there does not appear to be enough of them.
First button Wheatley asks you to push is the jump button. It's not on this diagram.
They didn't explain it very well, but it looks like different areas of the trackpad count as different things. The last bit that is cut off under "Movement" is "SP..." which could be SPACE for jump.
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I have no idea if it'll be the greatest thing ever or just a weird misfire, but I'm glad they decided to try something totally different, rather than just make a 360/dualshock twin-analog knockoff. We've already got plenty of those.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Sort of thought a controller announcement would be a letdown, but after seeing that it will work with all the games, even ones without controller support, I'm psyched! I'll still probably use my 360 controller for games that support it, but now I can use this controller for everything else. I really dislike using keyboard mouse for anything other than RTS.
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CuvisTheConquerorThey always say "yee haw" but they never ask "haw yee?" Registered Userregular
I was kind of thinking they'd do something like this, just with pre-defined binds for the D-pad/buttons/thumbsticks. But that might have been too awkward.
Maybe it'll be great when/if I use one, but strafe is on the left stick/pad, turn is on the right stick/pad. Jumping also with the left stick/pad seems wrong and bad. On a 360 controller it belongs on A. It's on the opposite hand here. And I'm still not sold on all those buttons and touch pretend buttons being so far off of the sticks/pads. It seems like you'll use them for more "down in the weeds" stuff. I don't care if quick save and quick load are a little awkward. I care if jump or attack are. And on the new controller it looks like they are.
So this controller will be a good mouse but a shitty controller.
You've already used it? Tell us more!
I'm not making a judgment. The key mappings show that this "controller" is going to be a good substitute for KBAM. KBAM is not a substitute for a gamepad, just like a gamepad is not a good sub for KBAM.
Sort of thought a controller announcement would be a letdown, but after seeing that it will work with all the games, even ones without controller support, I'm psyched! I'll still probably use my 360 controller for games that support it, but now I can use this controller for everything else. I really dislike using keyboard mouse for anything other than RTS.
Personally I plan on unhooking my 360 controller for one of these when I can get my hands on it, because it'd more than likely mean I don't have to unhook the damn thing every time I fire up some games since it keeps on wanting to push the camera down all the way so I'm staring at the floor. Even if I'm playing with KBAM.
And I have yet to find a way around that. Other than using my old MadCatz FightPad instead, which doesn't have the problem because it doesn't have sticks (only a d-pad).
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Oh. So Jump is on click the pad. That you're using for "precision" touch movement.
That's not going to be inaccurate at all. No sir.
(Go set the right stick click to jump and try it. Have fun.)
Analog sticks are far more inaccurate because they move much more, when clicking them in. I doubt this would be the case on this controller. Well. .... not as bad I guess.
Do we have any reason to believe that we can't rebind keys? If not then there's no reason to complain about the keybinds in the image.
The reason I'm complaining is because, looking at that picture, I can't think of a satisfying mapping for either Portal 2 or Mark of the Ninja. Saints Row III I think would be alright because the face buttons (at least for me) don't see a ton of action. Anything where you use the face buttons a lot looks like it'd be a bitch to play because half of your (kind-of) conveniently placed inputs are on the wrong hand, and they're all far away because of the size of the pads.
Looking at Mark of the Ninja, what do you put on the right hand? My instinct is jump and attack. And that makes your secondary items super awkward to use because then you're holding the left trigger to freeze time, using the left pad to aim your arc, and then pressing another thing on the left to confirm selection before you let off the trigger to watch insects eat a guy.
If the controller works well enough to run traditionally KBAM-driven games like Civ 5 easily, it'll be a slam dunk in my mind. The one sticking point for me is that I just cannot see playing Super Meat Boy or any other fast-paced controller-focused game with that thing. The right trackpad could mimic buttons, but that hardly seems ideal for fast-paced precision gaming. The other buttons are awkwardly placed if you're trying to use them as something resembling "XBAY" from the Xbox360 controller.
Even if I do have to switch to a 360 controller for some games, guys this is a viable way to play the like of Starcraft and Civilization on the big screen, why are so many people complaining about that?
It's not supposed to replace a real controller. You'll still want to use your 360 controller for games that support it, this one is just a way to play most games that don't support a controller in your living room. Valve has more than 2000 games on Steam, they had to find a way for you to be able to play most of them on a Steam Machine.
So this controller will be a good mouse but a shitty controller.
You've already used it? Tell us more!
I'm not making a judgment. The key mappings show that this "controller" is going to be a good substitute for KBAM. KBAM is not a substitute for a gamepad, just like a gamepad is not a good sub for KBAM.
It still looks like a good controller though. 8 buttons (I'm including clicking the trackpads) without having to move a thumb off the trackpads? That's not bad at all, a 360 controller only has 6 if you include clicking it's sticks. Both have 10 buttons if you count all those plus the ones next to the right thumbstick/trackpad. The Steam Controller has two more over by the left trackpad, plus it's touchscreen button and the three at the bottom.
If the trackpads are as good or better that thumbsticks then I don't see how this couldn't possibly be a replacement for controllers and kbam.
If the controller works well enough to run traditionally KBAM-driven games like Civ 5 easily, it'll be a slam dunk in my mind. The one sticking point for me is that I just cannot see playing Super Meat Boy or any other fast-paced controller-focused game with that thing. The right trackpad could mimic buttons, but that hardly seems ideal for fast-paced precision gaming. The other buttons are awkwardly placed if you're trying to use them as something resembling "XBAY" from the Xbox360 controller.
if holding your thumb in the top part of the left pad constitutes holding down 'w', then it stands to reason that you can lightly touch with your right thumb in the appropriate quadrant to perform xbay functions
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A new way to play every single game in your library seems like a big bomb drop to me.
I don't think they would go with this controller without having done some extensive testing, if I know Valve at all. If they thought it sucked it wouldn't be getting made.
And Blacklist, why you gotta tease me with a 25% off sale?
I'm intrigued to try it, but lack of like, ABXY buttons on the right side seems bizarre. Not sure how that'll work.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
You used to be able to order the Razer Hydra through Steam. So maybe?
Some games aren't going to ever be playable solely with a controller. There is only so much functionality you can get out of a handful of buttons. A better bet would have been to work with devs on upcoming games to make sure that as many releases going forward would have full controller support (as the amount of people using BPM or SteamOS is going going to grow).
You can't just throw hardware at a software problem and expect it to go away, you have to fix it at the development level.
Almost like there's a FAQ right next to that picture that explains what's going on.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
2. I'm fine with the idea of buttons on the back, but there does not appear to be enough of them.
First button Wheatley asks you to push is the jump button. It's not on this diagram.
Doesn't mean a controller can't be designed to function with more games than conventional designs.
yeah it is
just cut off
look under movement
wsda
shift
sp...
They included it in movement. I only realised just now, but SP... is short for space. Would have been better if it wasn't cut off.
DAMN YOU TAMIN!
Probably ran out of space on the chart, but it looks like the "click" icon on the left one is saying "SPACE BAR", which would follow how they're translating specific keyboard commands to buttons on the controller.
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COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
They didn't explain it very well, but it looks like different areas of the trackpad count as different things. The last bit that is cut off under "Movement" is "SP..." which could be SPACE for jump.
EDIT: Quadruple hivemind.
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You've already used it? Tell us more!
That's not going to be inaccurate at all. No sir.
(Go set the right stick click to jump and try it. Have fun.)
You have to be able to move in various directions and jump independent of one another and at the same time in basically any 3D game.
Unless I guess just pressing in on the pad with your thumb while you were moving would make you jump? That seems like it wouldn't feel right.
Christ I need to stop buying games.
also also the picture in the thread says "steam defaults"
this has been changed to "eric's bindings" on the page
I'm not making a judgment. The key mappings show that this "controller" is going to be a good substitute for KBAM. KBAM is not a substitute for a gamepad, just like a gamepad is not a good sub for KBAM.
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right, the filled circle (I'm guessing) means "click for this action"
so holding your thumb along the top of the outer groove is "w", then you just apply a bit of pressure and you've jumped.
I think!
edit: or maybe it's a two-stage button, with 'a light touch' and 'a click'. I dunno! but it looks... interesting
Personally I plan on unhooking my 360 controller for one of these when I can get my hands on it, because it'd more than likely mean I don't have to unhook the damn thing every time I fire up some games since it keeps on wanting to push the camera down all the way so I'm staring at the floor. Even if I'm playing with KBAM.
And I have yet to find a way around that. Other than using my old MadCatz FightPad instead, which doesn't have the problem because it doesn't have sticks (only a d-pad).
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Analog sticks are far more inaccurate because they move much more, when clicking them in. I doubt this would be the case on this controller. Well. .... not as bad I guess.
Looking at Mark of the Ninja, what do you put on the right hand? My instinct is jump and attack. And that makes your secondary items super awkward to use because then you're holding the left trigger to freeze time, using the left pad to aim your arc, and then pressing another thing on the left to confirm selection before you let off the trigger to watch insects eat a guy.
It still looks like a good controller though. 8 buttons (I'm including clicking the trackpads) without having to move a thumb off the trackpads? That's not bad at all, a 360 controller only has 6 if you include clicking it's sticks. Both have 10 buttons if you count all those plus the ones next to the right thumbstick/trackpad. The Steam Controller has two more over by the left trackpad, plus it's touchscreen button and the three at the bottom.
If the trackpads are as good or better that thumbsticks then I don't see how this couldn't possibly be a replacement for controllers and kbam.
if holding your thumb in the top part of the left pad constitutes holding down 'w', then it stands to reason that you can lightly touch with your right thumb in the appropriate quadrant to perform xbay functions