Yeah I still like it but the cast of this season has been a lot more boring than s1 and the illusion of choice totally breaking down is making me just think, why even make a videogame if the choices don't matter, write a book or something
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
Just a reminder
Luke was more upset over Jane leaving than the death of his life-long best friend.
nick's near complete absence in episode 3 (because he could have died in episode 2), and the beginning of this episode, definitely hurt the impact of finding him dead
there wasn't even a clever excuse like carver taking alvin hostage in episode 3, he just had no lines at all
Kenny is my bro. He was Lee's bro. He's just going through some shit right now and needs to vent.
Kenny's arc is one of the few things I am still enjoying about this game. He started out as a flawed, abrasive but good person. The stuff he has lived through, the things he has seen... of course he is broken. It makes handling him all the more complicated, because no matter how tough his life has been, he can't be allowed to screw our chances to make it through the present. Every time I see him get into a fight I worry that he might finally go to far, hoping that I never have to be the one deciding his fate.
No the part where you're playing as Clementine is the best part
It's the rest of it that kinda falters
Uh, no. Because "playing as Clementine" implies "the rest of it".
Player avatars, especially in games that have (the illusion of) choice, like Mass Effect or TWD, need to have agency. Having Clementine as the player avatar requires her to have agency, and a greater agency than the rest of the group. This causes some real problems, such as
basically everything that Clementine does. She becomes the fucking babysitter of the group. Who fucking scouts a bridge in a world filled with zombies and human cannibals? The 11-years old kid (and her appendage, the 20-something guy who she has to babysit). Who teaches the 15-years old to shoot? The 11-years old kid, instead of a father figure, or, well, the girl's father. Who finds a fucking coat in the museum? No, not the adults, the 11-years old kid (frankly, I think the most insulting part of Episode 4 occurs when you go first with Jane towards the deck, Bonnie and Mike still haven't found the Confederate coat. Are those two morons?).
Let's imagine some S1 scenes with Clem instead of Lee as the protagonist, ok?
Episode 1: Clementine has to decide whether to save Duck or Shawn. Clem goes with Carley to rescue Glenn. Clem has to take the pharmacy's keys off Lee's brother.
Episode 2: Clem hunts for food with Mark. Clem has to decide whether or not to hack David's leg. Clem has to ration the food.
You could go on and on with this (I got bored), but I think this cursory view of Season 1 kinda proves that making Clem the main character is a fundamental mistake, one that poisons the entire season, good writing or not.
I think the level of agency Clem has is totally appropriate with the way this group is set up, an 11-year old can't be a kid in this world in the same way an 11-year old is in ours
that was a major subplot in s1e3, which is echoed with Sarah in this season
I think the level of agency Clem has is totally appropriate with the way this group is set up, an 11-year old can't be a kid in this world in the same way an 11-year old is in ours
that was a major subplot in s1e3, which is echoed with Sarah in this season
Yeah, she can't, but they're doing it really badly and inconsistently
again, this is largely a consequence of shoehorning Clem back into a group dynamic. If she was primarily on her own, she could still hit the same story beats and interact regularly with people, including the group we have, since they're moving in the same direction as her, but it would be less incongruous when Clem has to do everything herself.
I think a telltale game with mostly only one character would be really interesting but in this case, if Clem finds a friendly group I don't know why she wouldn't stick with them
I mean, Clem is a really competent girl who has grown up far faster than most and legitimately should be be as good, or almost as good, as most of these adults at a lot of stuff. But the problem is, all of these adults somehow know and accept that she's this competent, and expect her to pull this shit off. That's the jarring thing here.
We know Clem can do this stuff, both because we're Clem and because, as Lee, we spent an entire game watching her prove herself. It made sense for Lee to be reluctantly asking her to do all this dangerous stuff - especially because a lot of the time it was just you and her, so Lee had no choice. But in this one you're given all these missions by adults over and over, and they act genuinely surprised if you fail.
Clem should be setting out on this shit by herself, sneaking out against her guardians' wishes and better judgement, not recieving and fulfilling quests delegated to her by a committee.
I think a telltale game with mostly only one character would be really interesting but in this case, if Clem finds a friendly group I don't know why she wouldn't stick with them
You really can't imagine why the circumstances in which her last two groups ended wouldn't turn her off groups?
Speaking of her last companion,
I keep waiting for Clem to mention what happened to Krista's baby.
There were a couple of places where that would have been really, really relevant!
the ones that lock you in a fucking barn to see if you die of sepsis are not, fuck those guys. Clem had every reason to just fuck off after stealing their shit and fixing her arm.
the ones that lock you in a fucking barn to see if you die of sepsis are not, fuck those guys. Clem had every reason to just fuck off after stealing their shit and fixing her arm.
I honestly thought that might have been how things were going to turn out at the start of episode 2.
seriously though what the fuck happened with that other baby and why didn't Clem bring it up when we're having an actual argument about what will happen to babies
seriously though what the fuck happened with that other baby and why didn't Clem bring it up when we're having an actual argument about what will happen to babies
seriously though what the fuck happened with that other baby and why didn't Clem bring it up when we're having an actual argument about what will happen to babies
did Telltale forget or what
I guess an angel descended from heaven and delivered it for Crista, then flew away with it immediately afterwards, because it seemed like Clem had no experience with babies whatsoever.
seriously though what the fuck happened with that other baby and why didn't Clem bring it up when we're having an actual argument about what will happen to babies
did Telltale forget or what
which one do you mean, christas?
I thought it was kind of obvious
apparently not, because if what obviously happened actually happened then Clem should have a valuable dataset to contribute to the pretty fucking urgent question of "what do you do with a baby in the zombie apocalypse"
in fact, fuck Kenny, in almost every eventuality of Krista's story Clem should be the most experienced person in the group on this very specific issue.
I hadn't considered that but yeah, you're right. At least, Clem and Kenny should have been working together to get that stuff done and there should have been an option to have her bring up that experience. It makes it feel even more that Krista was just kind of.... written off. Like a lot of characters who were just introduced this season.
I can only assume Telltale intended to include something about that and cut it because
the conversation between Jane and Rebecca is an absolutely perfect opening for that information to come out, whether as an incidental and irrelevant fact ("my last companion was pregnant too, but she miscarried...") or a really significant opportunity to affect the conversation and both character's opinions (my last companion had a baby, but it died... I don't think it's possible to protect a child/We have a much larger group, I think we can protect it!"
which leads me to assume it got cut
which leads me to assume something went pretty fucking wrong on this project if they had to cut out a plot point like that after setting it up so obviously
Man, I just finished this up, and thought this might be the best episode of the season (3 was really good too, not sure which was better yet), but it seems like a lot of people didn't enjoy it. Of course I loved episode 4 of the first season too, and this season seems to have a similar structure of using that spot to bring down the tension between the super grim episodes 3 and 5.
Also pretty similar in that both episode 4's had
a badass loner that's more competent than anyone else in your group, but broken up over the loss of her little sister, who eventual leaves rather than let herself get stuck in your slow-motion train wreck.
I'll agree that the biggest problem with this season is with Clem being too powerful. Lee was established from the opening scenes as someone who was strong enough to physically kill another person if he had to, and even still he seemed to find himself in more desperate situations then Clem does. The way everyone is relying on her for everything can seem a little strange too. Episode 2 was really bad with that, but the silliest one for me was in 3
When Carver brings you into the office, he goes on about how you understand the way the world really is and how similar you two are. I'm just imaging that scene being done in live action. Michael Madsen sitting down with an 11 year old girl, treating her as an equal and implying she could help him run his gang of murderers.
Anyways, this episode had a small moment in the museum that I thought handled this problem well.
If you try to slide through the window opening into the office, you get stuck, and they point out Clem isn't just a little girl anymore. Then a minute later, she fails at picking up the water jugs, showing that even if she's growing up, she is still a lot weaker than the other characters around her. Side note: I really loved the museum. Not a whole lot of importance happens there, but you get some time with Mike, who has been criminally underused so far, but still manages to get the best lines of the episode. The raccoon moment is a great piece that helps keep the series from being sadness all day, every day. Looking around at all the Civil War stuff was also a good reminder of how Lee and Omid had a small bonding moment over Civil War history. Made me really wish Lee could be there to tell Clem about some of the stuff, which got a tear from me when Clem said the same thing a moment later.
Hardest choice of the episode was near the middle choosing what to do about the
medicine. I think it's the first time I almost had the timer run out on me. I knew that we could really use that stuff right now, but robbing somebody would go against everything Lee taught Clem. But I gave it away, I knew Jane would probably lose her faith in me, and most of the group would probably be upset too. And then I started thinking about his group. Maybe it is just him and his sister. And even if he does have a big group, maybe they could help us out in the future if we help them. But on the other hand they could be bad people. But then I thought, wait a minute, he's speaking Russian, and we're in the middle of like Kentucky or something, there's no way he'd be part of some Russian fascist biker gang out here. That'd be absurd. Anyways, in the end I let him go with the meds, but I wasn't really sure I did the right thing. Then Jane points the gun at him and I start thinking, "yes, she'll kill him and take the medicine, then I don't have to be the bad guy here!" And then I felt super terrible when I told Jane I thought she was going to kill him and gets pissed off responds, "why, did you want me to?"
I restarted that whole jane sequence just cause I made a little mistake
I restarted near the end
when Jane offers Clem her nail file.
I initially declined it, since I figured she should keep something that reminded her of her sister.
But as soon as I hit the button, I realized she was probably offering it to Clem both to put her past behind her and try and make up for her mistakes.
So I quickly restarted that sequence so I could take the file.
I thought Jane was the highlight of the episode.
I thought she was mostly right about the others being a liability, but I was hoping that I could convince her to stay, because I just couldn't be as cold as she was. When she gave me the file I refused, but I wanted to tell her that she'll need it more than me, since I'll have other people to help me. Really sad to see her go, probably more sad then I've been about any of the actual deaths this season. Loved her character and hope we get to see her again. Also really sad we didn't get to find a leather jacket for Clem like she mentioned.
even if it comes up in Episode 5 that's far, far too late to touch on this incredibly obvious and relevant thing
there is no reason whatsoever for it not to come up sooner except that Telltale straight does not give a shit about this narrative anymore
yeah that's definitely the reason
I would be surprised if we get through the final episode without hearing about Christa's baby. I'm hoping that we also get to see Christa again since it looks like we're on the way to Wellington again.
oh oh I forgot my favourite thing about TWAU - you get FUCK OFF as a dialogue option all the time (and when you don't you probably have PUNCH HIM or SMASH A GLASS IN HIS FACE FOR NO REASON), this is sorely missing from TWD
Prediction for Season 3. You play as Kenny. Get options like MISPLACE BLAME FOR SITUATION, INAPPROPRIATELY REMEMBER DUCK, WAVE WEAPONS AT ALLIES.
And speaking of Kenny I was pretty mad for the first 10 minutes or so because they didn't give me to best option for how to respond to him.
Sarita is turning, so I apply an ax to her head without hesitation. Kenny turns to me and starts screaming "How could you do that? What were you thinking?"
All I wanted to say right there was, "I was thinking how hard it is to find a salt lick when you really need it."
I actually thought axing sarita's face was super unnecessary and I'm surprised that wasn't a choice
they're not locked in a room like with larry, they can get out, which is what they should be spending that time doing
by that point she was already dead so it's not a mercy axe
the only thing you're stopping is maybe accidentally stumbling upon zombie sarita, which would kind of suck but getting out of the horde is maybe a little more important right now
I actually thought axing sarita's face was super unnecessary and I'm surprised that wasn't a choice
they're not locked in a room like with larry, they can get out, which is what they should be spending that time doing
by that point she was already dead so it's not a mercy axe
the only thing you're stopping is maybe accidentally stumbling upon zombie sarita, which would kind of suck but getting out of the horde is maybe a little more important right now
The way I saw it was, that was the fastest way to get Kenny to understand that she was gone and that we needed to get the fuck out of there.
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That's still pretty inexcusable on his part.
But I'm just going to pin that on shitty writing.
Kenny is my bro. He was Lee's bro. He's just going through some shit right now and needs to vent.
there wasn't even a clever excuse like carver taking alvin hostage in episode 3, he just had no lines at all
Kenny's arc is one of the few things I am still enjoying about this game. He started out as a flawed, abrasive but good person. The stuff he has lived through, the things he has seen... of course he is broken. It makes handling him all the more complicated, because no matter how tough his life has been, he can't be allowed to screw our chances to make it through the present. Every time I see him get into a fight I worry that he might finally go to far, hoping that I never have to be the one deciding his fate.
Uh, no. Because "playing as Clementine" implies "the rest of it".
Player avatars, especially in games that have (the illusion of) choice, like Mass Effect or TWD, need to have agency. Having Clementine as the player avatar requires her to have agency, and a greater agency than the rest of the group. This causes some real problems, such as
Let's imagine some S1 scenes with Clem instead of Lee as the protagonist, ok?
Episode 2: Clem hunts for food with Mark. Clem has to decide whether or not to hack David's leg. Clem has to ration the food.
You could go on and on with this (I got bored), but I think this cursory view of Season 1 kinda proves that making Clem the main character is a fundamental mistake, one that poisons the entire season, good writing or not.
The early part where you're alone in the woods is the strongest by far
that was a major subplot in s1e3, which is echoed with Sarah in this season
Yeah, she can't, but they're doing it really badly and inconsistently
again, this is largely a consequence of shoehorning Clem back into a group dynamic. If she was primarily on her own, she could still hit the same story beats and interact regularly with people, including the group we have, since they're moving in the same direction as her, but it would be less incongruous when Clem has to do everything herself.
We know Clem can do this stuff, both because we're Clem and because, as Lee, we spent an entire game watching her prove herself. It made sense for Lee to be reluctantly asking her to do all this dangerous stuff - especially because a lot of the time it was just you and her, so Lee had no choice. But in this one you're given all these missions by adults over and over, and they act genuinely surprised if you fail.
Clem should be setting out on this shit by herself, sneaking out against her guardians' wishes and better judgement, not recieving and fulfilling quests delegated to her by a committee.
You really can't imagine why the circumstances in which her last two groups ended wouldn't turn her off groups?
Speaking of her last companion,
maybe a smaller group, like 2-3 including clem, that was christa's philosophy
I honestly thought that might have been how things were going to turn out at the start of episode 2.
Actually I've just said that and then realised that I really enjoyed the little sequence of trying to impress Jane by paying attention.
I restarted near the end
I initially declined it, since I figured she should keep something that reminded her of her sister.
But as soon as I hit the button, I realized she was probably offering it to Clem both to put her past behind her and try and make up for her mistakes.
So I quickly restarted that sequence so I could take the file.
did Telltale forget or what
which one do you mean, christas?
I thought it was kind of obvious
I guess an angel descended from heaven and delivered it for Crista, then flew away with it immediately afterwards, because it seemed like Clem had no experience with babies whatsoever.
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apparently not, because if what obviously happened actually happened then Clem should have a valuable dataset to contribute to the pretty fucking urgent question of "what do you do with a baby in the zombie apocalypse"
in fact, fuck Kenny, in almost every eventuality of Krista's story Clem should be the most experienced person in the group on this very specific issue.
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which leads me to assume it got cut
which leads me to assume something went pretty fucking wrong on this project if they had to cut out a plot point like that after setting it up so obviously
this whole season is about kids and how they're going to live in the new world, be it christa's baby or rebecca's baby or clem or sarah
there is no reason whatsoever for it not to come up sooner except that Telltale straight does not give a shit about this narrative anymore
yeah that's definitely the reason
Also pretty similar in that both episode 4's had
I'll agree that the biggest problem with this season is with Clem being too powerful. Lee was established from the opening scenes as someone who was strong enough to physically kill another person if he had to, and even still he seemed to find himself in more desperate situations then Clem does. The way everyone is relying on her for everything can seem a little strange too. Episode 2 was really bad with that, but the silliest one for me was in 3
Anyways, this episode had a small moment in the museum that I thought handled this problem well.
Hardest choice of the episode was near the middle choosing what to do about the
I thought Jane was the highlight of the episode.
I would be surprised if we get through the final episode without hearing about Christa's baby. I'm hoping that we also get to see Christa again since it looks like we're on the way to Wellington again.
Prediction for Season 3. You play as Kenny. Get options like MISPLACE BLAME FOR SITUATION, INAPPROPRIATELY REMEMBER DUCK, WAVE WEAPONS AT ALLIES.
And speaking of Kenny I was pretty mad for the first 10 minutes or so because they didn't give me to best option for how to respond to him.
All I wanted to say right there was, "I was thinking how hard it is to find a salt lick when you really need it."
they're not locked in a room like with larry, they can get out, which is what they should be spending that time doing
by that point she was already dead so it's not a mercy axe
the only thing you're stopping is maybe accidentally stumbling upon zombie sarita, which would kind of suck but getting out of the horde is maybe a little more important right now
sure sucks, when it happens, huh
wait, I thought it was a choice
like, I'm 99% sure it is
oh man, tell me about it!!
if it's a choice, it wasn't presented as a choice, or at least I didn't see any option to do anything else
I spent 4 or 5 seconds waiting with the
It's also possible there might have something else on the screen that let you avoid it, but I didn't see it.
There was a four way dialogue choice where that was one of the options and I was like uhhhh sorry nope I already screwed this up enough
huh
hmmm
EPISODE 5
...
kind of wondering if I should have ditched Jane
really wondering if I should have let that family in