I do agree that horses really would have been great, given the whole 'old west' vibe it was trying to showcase. But honestly, just any hint that people are actually managing to put things back together or maybe at least sweep the fucking floor after 200 years would go a long ways towards building immersion.
Yeah, the Highwayman was one of the coolest parts about Fallout 2. It looked snazzy for an old car, it got you around to locations in the wasted California faster, it ran off an ammo source no one cared to use (Energy weapons in Fallout 2? Pffft, Gauss Rifle or bust, nerds), it had a free pack-mule slot you could store stuff in so you didn't have to make your companions hold on to your shit for you, and best of all? Snazzy remix of the world map theme when you rode in the car!
The car also seemed to have quite the hammer space dilemma, since you could fit including, but not limited to: A bulky tribal with a bone in his nose, an middle-aged man with an attitude and a shotgun, a Super Mutant, and an albino deathclaw who could talk.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
I don't remember any serious glitches except there being problems with where you left it at times. Or trying to enter it to escape combat, though that seemed more like user-error on my part. Either way, I run the game with with the restoration mod which fixed numerous bugs and brought in cut-content, like the quest to find Sulik's Sister. Of course, this also forced Kaga into my game, and holy crap; worst special encounter ever.
I feel like a car would be awesome in Fallout IV but only if the game world is as big as Daggerfall, which is never going to happen. All the Bethesda worlds post-Daggerfall are just way too small for that kind it vehicle.
I feel like a car would be awesome in Fallout IV but only if the game world is as big as Daggerfall, which is never going to happen. All the Bethesda worlds post-Daggerfall are just way too small for that kind it vehicle.
I'm hoping the next iteration (and I can only assume with the texa$ this franchise hauls in that there WILL be a next iteration despite the lack of news...) will be PC and next-gen consoles only, which presumably will allow more content and a larger world.
I don't remember any serious glitches except there being problems with where you left it at times. Or trying to enter it to escape combat, though that seemed more like user-error on my part. Either way, I run the game with with the restoration mod which fixed numerous bugs and brought in cut-content, like the quest to find Sulik's Sister. Of course, this also forced Kaga into my game, and holy crap; worst special encounter ever.
When I went to the Sierra Nevada base, I lost my car because I took it directly there.
But I still had the trunk, and it followed me around.
2nd floor of the base? There's my party and the trunk.
I feel like a car would be awesome in Fallout IV but only if the game world is as big as Daggerfall, which is never going to happen. All the Bethesda worlds post-Daggerfall are just way too small for that kind it vehicle.
I'm hoping the next iteration (and I can only assume with the texa$ this franchise hauls in that there WILL be a next iteration despite the lack of news...) will be PC and next-gen consoles only, which presumably will allow more content and a larger world.
Larger world maybe but I wouldn't get my hopes up. There was a stark change in design philosophies between Daggerfall and Morrowind. Morrowind and post-Morrowind is waaaaay more scripted than Daggerfall, and way smaller as a result. When every character is scripted to some degree, you can only make your world so large. It really has nothing to do with performance/hardware. Development scope is the big issue.
Here's some comparative stats:
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles
That's right.
But most of Daggerfall's world was procedurally/randomly generated.
I just don't see them going to that scope ever again. If they want to sculpt everything individually, then there's a flat zero percent chance.
I'm not going to argue which is better or worse. Both methods have their pros and cons. But in my opinion, a car would only work in a giant game world like Daggerfall's. And in all likelihood, we're never going to see that again.
One way to flesh out a larger world might be to snatch up the concept of the Nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor but expand upon it to be more than just your enemies. Your actions could make you allies, friends, rivals. NPCs might bully you because you had a supposed reputation, or you might be sung praise as you walk into town.
That's one thing which always made me feel odd in Skyrim, for example. I go out and lay these dragon's low through the sweat of my brow and a swing of my steel. Yet when I go back to collect the reward, there's no reaction. The townsfolk don't care, and in fact other than "Oh huh there isn't a giant flying lizard in the air anymore" how would the steward know I actually killed the damn thing? The bounty doesn't call for proof.
I really would love to see obsidian do another fallout game either on the updated engine skyrim uses (this thing is so much more stable than NV's version of Gamebryo) or whatever the next gen engine Bethesda is going to be using
Like NV is a product of the clunky technology behind it, but their plans for the monorail, the train, the strip would have been epic. I'm unsure why horses weren't in it though
because if the game had horses I'd go full cowboy, only use revolvers and lever rifles
The US govt actually established a strategic horse reserve in case things go pear shaped and they have need of horses for local transportation, and my brother tells me he's spotted herds of wild horses (that are part of that reserve) to the west of Vegas
so the setting is actually perfect, if that part of the mojave was relatively un-obliterated, access to horses wouldn't be too hard
Honestly, while New Vegas was great, I think that Obsidian benefits more from having more structure to their engines, as opposed to open world type games.
I actually don't want cars purely for atmosphere and the way the world is. Something about everyone having to basically travel on foot makes the fallout world feel immense and terrifying, like humanity sent back to the Stone Age pre-domestication. I mean if you could do it right it would be great, but it would totally shift the tone and scale of the game, so you wouldn't be able to have as much detail packed in. I mean maybe that's a good thing? More space between points of interest? But there's something about slowly hoofing it over a ridge, not knowing what'll be on the other side, that's so brooding and atmospheric, and would be ruined by being able to hoon everywhere and drive past things. Like in fallout and Skyrim they can kind of set up scenes and set pieces to unveil to the player based on how you walk slowly onto the scene, and if you're flying around in cars you'll trigger these scenes and miss them, or just run over dudes who might have been doing something interesting
I dunno it feels like it would require a shift in the way the world is presented, and would change the pace too much for me.
Maybe slow bikes and horses would be ok, as long as their speed wasn't too much faster than walking
One thing I absolutely want from Shadow of Mordor is a nemesis system, tho not with individuals, but with gangs, or raider groups, or even towns. So towns remember you and what you've done, or you can set towns against each other. You can promote or work against raider groups, set them against each other, set up your own, that kind of thing. Come to think of it, having individualised raider bosses and a hierarchy of command and stuff like that would work perfectly as well.
My hope for the next Fallout game would be for that it would not be a sloppy, buggy mess that requires months of work from the mod community to make good, but considering it's Bethesda I guess I'm out of luck.
I just don't see them going to that scope ever again. If they want to sculpt everything individually, then there's a flat zero percent chance.
I'm not going to argue which is better or worse. Both methods have their pros and cons. But in my opinion, a car would only work in a giant game world like Daggerfall's. And in all likelihood, we're never going to see that again.
is concerned I think a massive procedurally generated world with transport would have been great. Look at New Vegas, it's got multiple warring factions, multiple raider camps, and multiple peaceful settlements all within a ten minute walk from one other and it's pretty ridiculous. You're at war with those guys? Just go over there and fight them. You can just walk over there right now. I killed like ten dudes just walking here and it was nothing. Oh, there is a vicious pack of deathclaws that live six hundred feet from your door? What do they eat exactly? Why haven't they walked over here and ripped your face off yet? Surely there isn't enough food in a tiny dead end quarry to sustain a pack of a dozen or more large carnivores.
Give the player a car/horse/whatever and let them cruise across a giant desert (southern Nevada is basically a giant desert) through trails and old crumbling highways with procedurally/randomly generated terrain/encounters in between hand built areas and you've got yourself a real wasteland. As a bonus, no two players would have the same trip through their respective wastelands, so your story would really feel unique when compared to other players.
Hopefully the next Fallout won't be crippled by having to run on consoles that only have 512MB of RAM.
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
I worry about the inclusion of cars, I wouldn't want them to change the way they make the worlds too much just so your car doesn't constantly bump into stuff because it's fast. Heres a vast expanse of nothing in between areas so you have some room to drive around.
I would still just go on foot, thats the way TES and Fallout felt like it was meant to be played to me.
Theres no way they could add cars to the next fallout unless they radically alter their world design concepts that they've had forever.
Personally I'd love a railroad more than cars, but it wont happen for the same reason(seriously, look at the rail tracks in New Vegas, theres no way in hell you could actually animate a train on them)
I feel like a car would be awesome in Fallout IV but only if the game world is as big as Daggerfall, which is never going to happen. All the Bethesda worlds post-Daggerfall are just way too small for that kind it vehicle.
I'm hoping the next iteration (and I can only assume with the texa$ this franchise hauls in that there WILL be a next iteration despite the lack of news...) will be PC and next-gen consoles only, which presumably will allow more content and a larger world.
Larger world maybe but I wouldn't get my hopes up. There was a stark change in design philosophies between Daggerfall and Morrowind. Morrowind and post-Morrowind is waaaaay more scripted than Daggerfall, and way smaller as a result. When every character is scripted to some degree, you can only make your world so large. It really has nothing to do with performance/hardware. Development scope is the big issue.
Here's some comparative stats:
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles
That's right.
But most of Daggerfall's world was procedurally/randomly generated.
I just don't see them going to that scope ever again. If they want to sculpt everything individually, then there's a flat zero percent chance.
I'm not going to argue which is better or worse. Both methods have their pros and cons. But in my opinion, a car would only work in a giant game world like Daggerfall's. And in all likelihood, we're never going to see that again.
Daggerfall was really much smaller because everything outside the like 5 capital cities were pointless
Man, the Pitt was such a good DLC. I think the Pitt and Lonesome Road are probably the two best Fallout expansions. Great loot, new enemies, interesting stories, and a complicated choice at the end of each.
Man, the Pitt was such a good DLC. I think the Pitt and Lonesome Road are probably the two best Fallout expansions. Great loot, new enemies, interesting stories, and a complicated choice at the end of each.
Exactly. It took me a long while to decide which gun to use when shooting Ulysses in the back of the head before sending the bombs to the Legion.
Theres no way they could add cars to the next fallout unless they radically alter their world design concepts that they've had forever.
Personally I'd love a railroad more than cars, but it wont happen for the same reason(seriously, look at the rail tracks in New Vegas, theres no way in hell you could actually animate a train on them)
I'd love a game set on a river or coast where you can travel between different areas by boat.
Kinda like the DC Wastes and Point Lookout, but only with three or more hubs and reasons to constantly move back and fourth.
As for cars, I'm okay with them as long as they are not two common. I can see them used by the rich in NCR, and I can see the NCR army using trucks, but outside of a civilized area the lack of spare parts, fuel (do Fallout cars need that?), mechanics and good roads mean that beasts and feet are the way to travel.
Id like maybe a frontier combination of civilised groups v wasteland, because I like the feeling of exploring areas which are just totally fucked and alien but I also enjoy politics and groups of civilisations rebuilding in their own ways, which was what New Vegas at its best achieved.
I would love to experience some sea creatures, like giant mutated whales and squid.
One thing I want from the next game, given it will likely be next gen and PC only, is like troops marching in formation. Like different groups would move and walk about in different way, they did this to some extent in Vegas. Id love to see like a column of the Legion or Brotherhood of steel marching along, with all their supplies and support personnel. And have raiders be more haphazard, with them setting up ambushes and traps.
Prohass on
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
The Pitt definitely had the hardest moral decision in the game for me.
Was hoping New Vegas would bring some more of that "oh my god, I can't believe they convinced me to side with a slaver, I hate myself" feeling with Caesar's Legion but the Legion are pretty iredeemable. Theres no end goal they're working towards that doesn't turn mankind into barbaric monsters.
The decision with the Pitt was hard mainly because both of the choices are really bad. Ashur had good intentions but he was completely deluded. All the people working under him were insane monsters. Ashur's camp is full of dismembered and flayed bodies, and all the people working for Ashur just want to kill and destroy. If Ashur makes even the tiniest mistake, everything goes straight to hell. Wernher is obviously an opportunist and there's no way that the slaves can figure out a cure but at least they'll have a chance to escape when they realize they'll fail, the slave trade will at least slow if not stop, and there won't be any crazed raiders left.
They made too many changes to the Legion. The Van Buren version of the Legion was a lot more interesting and effective.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
I don't trust Wernher whatsoever, I felt he was actually pretty self serving, aggressive and gave some very ominous future raider king of the pitt vibes.
I get the feeling The Pitt would more than likely just completely dissolve into chaos and nothing but raider gangs and mutants if he took control. It doesn't seem like he wants to make a difference as much as get ahead and get back at Ashur at the same time.
The Pitt dilemma represents the sort of choices I like to see often in a post apocalyptic scenario where everything is a mess and you have to make some pretty fucked calls you would never convince yourself to make in a civilized society. You should never be able to look at two sides and very clearly see yourself saying "Well, it's pretty easy to tell which ones of these guys are evil and who is a saint".
It's not the best written thing, thats definitely not Bethesda's strength but I really love the idea of it.
I feel like a car would be awesome in Fallout IV but only if the game world is as big as Daggerfall, which is never going to happen. All the Bethesda worlds post-Daggerfall are just way too small for that kind it vehicle.
I'm hoping the next iteration (and I can only assume with the texa$ this franchise hauls in that there WILL be a next iteration despite the lack of news...) will be PC and next-gen consoles only, which presumably will allow more content and a larger world.
Larger world maybe but I wouldn't get my hopes up. There was a stark change in design philosophies between Daggerfall and Morrowind. Morrowind and post-Morrowind is waaaaay more scripted than Daggerfall, and way smaller as a result. When every character is scripted to some degree, you can only make your world so large. It really has nothing to do with performance/hardware. Development scope is the big issue.
Here's some comparative stats:
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles
That's right.
But most of Daggerfall's world was procedurally/randomly generated.
I just don't see them going to that scope ever again. If they want to sculpt everything individually, then there's a flat zero percent chance.
I'm not going to argue which is better or worse. Both methods have their pros and cons. But in my opinion, a car would only work in a giant game world like Daggerfall's. And in all likelihood, we're never going to see that again.
Daggerfall was really much smaller because everything outside the like 5 capital cities were pointless
Daggerfall felt so much larger to me. Even the cities themselves - tons of NPCs and random chaos.
Most of it was inconsequential and just randomly generated, but in many ways Daggerfall felt much larger and much more realistic than the games that followed it.
I don't trust Wernher whatsoever, I felt he was actually pretty self serving, aggressive and gave some very ominous future raider king of the pitt vibes.
I get the feeling The Pitt would more than likely just completely dissolve into chaos and nothing but raider gangs and mutants if he took control. It doesn't seem like he wants to make a difference as much as get ahead and get back at Ashur at the same time.
The Pitt dilemma represents the sort of choices I like to see often in a post apocalyptic scenario where everything is a mess and you have to make some pretty fucked calls you would never convince yourself to make in a civilized society. You should never be able to look at two sides and very clearly see yourself saying "Well, it's pretty easy to tell which ones of these guys are evil and who is a saint".
It's not the best written thing, thats definitely not Bethesda's strength but I really love the idea of it.
It's not just a matter of who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. There's the bigger picture to take into consideration. I would say that Wernher is not as good as Ashur but the situation Wernher gets put in has less potential for disaster compared to the situation that Ashur gets put in.
The problem with Ashur is that he has actually gathered a pretty big following of incredibly bad raiders and he's responsible for a large portion of the slave trade that goes on in the Capital Wasteland. If he dies or gets assassinated, he's leaving behind a bunch of powerful and insane raiders who have access to factories that can manufacture weapons. Since he's not doing anything to put less crazy people into positions of power, that's the direction the Pitt is going in.
Wernher on the other hand, is less likely to be able to make things that bad. In order to put in charge, you have to kill all the raiders so all the worst people are already dead. If Wernher wants to build his own empire, he'll have to start from scratch. Plus he'll have to contend with the freed slaves.
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I wanted to ride a horse in NV. Go full cowboy.
The car also seemed to have quite the hammer space dilemma, since you could fit including, but not limited to: A bulky tribal with a bone in his nose, an middle-aged man with an attitude and a shotgun, a Super Mutant, and an albino deathclaw who could talk.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
They should have a robot horse in Fallout IV.
Or...
No, dare I even dream it...?
A robot unicorn.
Made of diamonds? Named Butt Stallion?
I'm hoping the next iteration (and I can only assume with the texa$ this franchise hauls in that there WILL be a next iteration despite the lack of news...) will be PC and next-gen consoles only, which presumably will allow more content and a larger world.
Call of Duty Ghosts?
I mean, they don't pay attention to any other logic. Why should chronology be the exception?
Why I fear the ocean.
And the Lead Designer of Mercenaries 2 was a QA tester on Fallout 2.
CONSPIRACIES
When I went to the Sierra Nevada base, I lost my car because I took it directly there.
But I still had the trunk, and it followed me around.
2nd floor of the base? There's my party and the trunk.
3rd floor? Same thing.
Back to New Reno? Right there with me.
Made looting indoor areas a lot easier.
Larger world maybe but I wouldn't get my hopes up. There was a stark change in design philosophies between Daggerfall and Morrowind. Morrowind and post-Morrowind is waaaaay more scripted than Daggerfall, and way smaller as a result. When every character is scripted to some degree, you can only make your world so large. It really has nothing to do with performance/hardware. Development scope is the big issue.
Here's some comparative stats:
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
- The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles
That's right.
But most of Daggerfall's world was procedurally/randomly generated.
I just don't see them going to that scope ever again. If they want to sculpt everything individually, then there's a flat zero percent chance.
I'm not going to argue which is better or worse. Both methods have their pros and cons. But in my opinion, a car would only work in a giant game world like Daggerfall's. And in all likelihood, we're never going to see that again.
That's one thing which always made me feel odd in Skyrim, for example. I go out and lay these dragon's low through the sweat of my brow and a swing of my steel. Yet when I go back to collect the reward, there's no reaction. The townsfolk don't care, and in fact other than "Oh huh there isn't a giant flying lizard in the air anymore" how would the steward know I actually killed the damn thing? The bounty doesn't call for proof.
It's kind of infamous. It is fixed, IIRC, by either the final official patch or the first unofficial patch.
If you have a normally patched game these days you won't see it, but back in the day it plagued people.
Uhhh, Delta Goodrem is an Australian pop singer and television star. Doubleyouuteeeff?
someone is doing a low int life playthrough i think, just imagine all the vendor dialog
Like NV is a product of the clunky technology behind it, but their plans for the monorail, the train, the strip would have been epic. I'm unsure why horses weren't in it though
because if the game had horses I'd go full cowboy, only use revolvers and lever rifles
The US govt actually established a strategic horse reserve in case things go pear shaped and they have need of horses for local transportation, and my brother tells me he's spotted herds of wild horses (that are part of that reserve) to the west of Vegas
so the setting is actually perfect, if that part of the mojave was relatively un-obliterated, access to horses wouldn't be too hard
I dunno it feels like it would require a shift in the way the world is presented, and would change the pace too much for me.
Maybe slow bikes and horses would be ok, as long as their speed wasn't too much faster than walking
One thing I absolutely want from Shadow of Mordor is a nemesis system, tho not with individuals, but with gangs, or raider groups, or even towns. So towns remember you and what you've done, or you can set towns against each other. You can promote or work against raider groups, set them against each other, set up your own, that kind of thing. Come to think of it, having individualised raider bosses and a hierarchy of command and stuff like that would work perfectly as well.
As far as
is concerned I think a massive procedurally generated world with transport would have been great. Look at New Vegas, it's got multiple warring factions, multiple raider camps, and multiple peaceful settlements all within a ten minute walk from one other and it's pretty ridiculous. You're at war with those guys? Just go over there and fight them. You can just walk over there right now. I killed like ten dudes just walking here and it was nothing. Oh, there is a vicious pack of deathclaws that live six hundred feet from your door? What do they eat exactly? Why haven't they walked over here and ripped your face off yet? Surely there isn't enough food in a tiny dead end quarry to sustain a pack of a dozen or more large carnivores.
Give the player a car/horse/whatever and let them cruise across a giant desert (southern Nevada is basically a giant desert) through trails and old crumbling highways with procedurally/randomly generated terrain/encounters in between hand built areas and you've got yourself a real wasteland. As a bonus, no two players would have the same trip through their respective wastelands, so your story would really feel unique when compared to other players.
Hopefully the next Fallout won't be crippled by having to run on consoles that only have 512MB of RAM.
I would still just go on foot, thats the way TES and Fallout felt like it was meant to be played to me.
Personally I'd love a railroad more than cars, but it wont happen for the same reason(seriously, look at the rail tracks in New Vegas, theres no way in hell you could actually animate a train on them)
Daggerfall was really much smaller because everything outside the like 5 capital cities were pointless
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Exactly. It took me a long while to decide which gun to use when shooting Ulysses in the back of the head before sending the bombs to the Legion.
I'd love a game set on a river or coast where you can travel between different areas by boat.
Kinda like the DC Wastes and Point Lookout, but only with three or more hubs and reasons to constantly move back and fourth.
As for cars, I'm okay with them as long as they are not two common. I can see them used by the rich in NCR, and I can see the NCR army using trucks, but outside of a civilized area the lack of spare parts, fuel (do Fallout cars need that?), mechanics and good roads mean that beasts and feet are the way to travel.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Which is kinda what New Vegas was.
I would love to experience some sea creatures, like giant mutated whales and squid.
One thing I want from the next game, given it will likely be next gen and PC only, is like troops marching in formation. Like different groups would move and walk about in different way, they did this to some extent in Vegas. Id love to see like a column of the Legion or Brotherhood of steel marching along, with all their supplies and support personnel. And have raiders be more haphazard, with them setting up ambushes and traps.
Was hoping New Vegas would bring some more of that "oh my god, I can't believe they convinced me to side with a slaver, I hate myself" feeling with Caesar's Legion but the Legion are pretty iredeemable. Theres no end goal they're working towards that doesn't turn mankind into barbaric monsters.
They made too many changes to the Legion. The Van Buren version of the Legion was a lot more interesting and effective.
I get the feeling The Pitt would more than likely just completely dissolve into chaos and nothing but raider gangs and mutants if he took control. It doesn't seem like he wants to make a difference as much as get ahead and get back at Ashur at the same time.
The Pitt dilemma represents the sort of choices I like to see often in a post apocalyptic scenario where everything is a mess and you have to make some pretty fucked calls you would never convince yourself to make in a civilized society. You should never be able to look at two sides and very clearly see yourself saying "Well, it's pretty easy to tell which ones of these guys are evil and who is a saint".
It's not the best written thing, thats definitely not Bethesda's strength but I really love the idea of it.
Daggerfall felt so much larger to me. Even the cities themselves - tons of NPCs and random chaos.
Most of it was inconsequential and just randomly generated, but in many ways Daggerfall felt much larger and much more realistic than the games that followed it.
It's not just a matter of who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. There's the bigger picture to take into consideration. I would say that Wernher is not as good as Ashur but the situation Wernher gets put in has less potential for disaster compared to the situation that Ashur gets put in.
The problem with Ashur is that he has actually gathered a pretty big following of incredibly bad raiders and he's responsible for a large portion of the slave trade that goes on in the Capital Wasteland. If he dies or gets assassinated, he's leaving behind a bunch of powerful and insane raiders who have access to factories that can manufacture weapons. Since he's not doing anything to put less crazy people into positions of power, that's the direction the Pitt is going in.
Wernher on the other hand, is less likely to be able to make things that bad. In order to put in charge, you have to kill all the raiders so all the worst people are already dead. If Wernher wants to build his own empire, he'll have to start from scratch. Plus he'll have to contend with the freed slaves.