Yeah, sure. Next thing you know you'll be saying that cerberus had some good points
Behlen forced change in the form of slowly removing the rather stupid caste system (your ancestor kicked ass and chewed bubblegum, so you're entitled to sit around doing whatever you want and brag about how awesome your family used to be while you live a wealthy life, while the casteless dwarves who struggle to survive every day work harder than you? please), and was basically the complete opposite of Harrowmont, who would pretty much turn into a do-nothing king that many dwarves were only happy with when he kicked the bucket, and rumors were he was poisoned.
Sorry, Behlen might be an ass, but progress doesn't require you to be a nice guy.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
Bhelen is a royal (heh) asshole and were there anyone else slightly less of an asshole with the same progressive viewpoint, I would have dropped Bhelen in a flash
Unfortunately it's a binary choice and the other option would mean a slow death for dwarven civilisatioin, so
Besides, characters like Bhelen get overthrown one way or another
Got ambushed by the Architect in the silverite mines. He stole all my stuff. I got all of it back except for my Warden's equipment. Apparently it's bugged and my stuff is just gone. I have no earlier saves.
How do they not fix something like this? I mean, I don't even wanna finish the game now.
Well, there is a certain thrill to getting your stuff back. I felt like I ran through a gauntlet after doing those fights.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
As a two-handed warrior in Awakening who learnt Massacre I figured I was actually a deadly force even without a sword, vaporizing my enemies just by being around them
Which is awesome, but had the unfortunate side effect of turning most of the encounters into somewhat of a joke
Due to my first playthrough being a casteless dwarf, I will always have a soft spot for Bhelen. Hell, when I later played a Dwarf Noble, I never even suspected he would try to betray me, I was convinced my elder brother was trying to off me.
BassguyGhost Ride the DragonRegistered Userregular
Harrowmont is poison for the Dwarves. Putting him on the throne is ruinous.
Bhelen is certainly flawed, but he's the lesser of the two evils. With him, the caste system will start to fall apart, and trade with the surface will make life easier for everyone. Harrowmont wants to double down on the worst parts of Dwarven society.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I still find it a difficult decision because Bhelen is SUCH a shitlord.
And the only way you know that Bhelen is going to be the better ruler is by metagaming, if you visit the dwarves as anything other than Dwarf commoner.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
Fuck the dwarves for making it necessary for someone as vile as Bhelen to create real change.
You know you fucked up when someone like him comes along and manages to somehow make himself look like the lesser of two evils when the other guy is a sweet old man.
Fuck the dwarves for having to make it necessary for someone as vile as Bhelen to create real change.
You know you fucked up when someone like him comes along and manages to somehow make himself look like the lesser of two evils when the other guy is a sweet old man.
To be fair, if you were going to write a travel guide for Thedas, it's title would probably be "Thedas: This Place Is Fucked Up." Bioware set out to create a dark fantasy world, and they succeeded. I can't think of anything in that place that is a shining light of good. Even their heroic ancient order, The Grey Wardens, is for all intents and purposes a death cult who conscripts its members in a join or die ceremony.
PSN|AspectVoid
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Well, maybe not all that sweet since there's a very real possibility he poisoned the king.
Nah. The first time I played the game, I went straight Harrowmont because Bhelen was murdering people right and left and corrupting officials with bribes and lies and so on, while Harrowmont was just there being honorable.
Later, after people in this thread acting like Bhelen was the ONLY choice, I started investigating further to see if there was something, anything that made Harrowmont look evil. It's not there. Harrowmont is legitimately honorable. If you give him the crown, he doesn't even put a kill order on Bhelen, though Bhelen is an obvious threat (luckily for Harrowmont, Bhelen takes care of that himself by aggroing when you crown Harrowmont).
Dwarf Noble definitely didn't have any evidence of Harrowmont being a secrect poisoner. Even the 'secret' stuff that the noble story tells you (about Bhelen being a murderer), is actually discoverable by the other origin stories of you nose around the king's residence.
Dwarf commoner is the one origin story I don't think I got around to doing. Is there some secret evidence in that story?
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
Well, the thing is I look at Bhelen and its true. He's a shitty guy.
But I mean then you look at the rest of Orzammar and I'm like...he's a shitty guy from a shitty city. Like quite frankly the Dwarves were just terrible altogether so it didn't surprise me that they produced terrible leaders.
And I would say at first I though Harrowment was honorable but looking back on it, he just comes off as someone who didn't want to rock the boat. Also, I'm sure his honor only extents to citizens with the status to deserve it.
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BassguyGhost Ride the DragonRegistered Userregular
Edit: Oh, god. Bull's voice still just seems so bad to me. :-(
Still not as bad as the extremely stereotypical common as muck "alrite guvnor! chipchip!" sera. Though she was somewhat tolerable in this video so maybe its just marketing picking out the worse bits before.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
Really, I think Bull's voice is fine.
I think the problem is just that on average the Qunari we've been exposed to have had much gruffer voices. Bull's is actually pretty soft in comparison to say Sten or the Arishok.
...I always thought it was behlen who poisoned the king. I mean, he already showed that fatricide is a thing that he does
Yeah that seems the most likely. He killed everyone else in his family, why not his dad too?
I thought I remembered there being something hinting at Harrowmont doing it, but, like I said, it's been awhile since I last played the game. I might just be thinking of some theory I read online or something.
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
Dorian looks to be my go to ultimate Dragon Age bromance.
Funny, not afraid to raise grandma from her grave as a meat shield, seen the worst in magic and still believes in freedom, fancy mustache, all around good guy. Exactly the kind of mage I would want to play.
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Yea Dorian seems like he will certainly be in my party.
Sera's face still makes me mad every time I see it though.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
I actually like how Sera looks.
Usually the young roguish female types like her are all baby-faced. She actually has a bit of a grimy quality to her that I would expect from someone who lives the way she does.
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Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
I like Sera so far but I worry some people won't get along with her as well as they think they might if shes anything like I imagine.
From the sound of things, she's very anti authority, violent and tired of being held down which could make her another Anders in the making.
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But you Behlen lovers are still crazy
Spoit is a dedicated Amalathian.
Then again, so was Eisenhorn. Once.
Give it time.
Why I fear the ocean.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Behlen forced change in the form of slowly removing the rather stupid caste system (your ancestor kicked ass and chewed bubblegum, so you're entitled to sit around doing whatever you want and brag about how awesome your family used to be while you live a wealthy life, while the casteless dwarves who struggle to survive every day work harder than you? please), and was basically the complete opposite of Harrowmont, who would pretty much turn into a do-nothing king that many dwarves were only happy with when he kicked the bucket, and rumors were he was poisoned.
Sorry, Behlen might be an ass, but progress doesn't require you to be a nice guy.
XBL: GamingFreak5514
PSN: GamingFreak1234
Unfortunately it's a binary choice and the other option would mean a slow death for dwarven civilisatioin, so
Besides, characters like Bhelen get overthrown one way or another
Got ambushed by the Architect in the silverite mines. He stole all my stuff. I got all of it back except for my Warden's equipment. Apparently it's bugged and my stuff is just gone. I have no earlier saves.
How do they not fix something like this? I mean, I don't even wanna finish the game now.
It's so freakin' insidious because I saved. I saved frequently just in case of bugs.
But then you don't realize the nature of the bug until you get to the end of the goddamn dungeon and realize that your stuff's not there.
Who the hell thought it'd be fun to make players chase down their own equipment all over again in the first place?
Which is awesome, but had the unfortunate side effect of turning most of the encounters into somewhat of a joke
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Bhelen is certainly flawed, but he's the lesser of the two evils. With him, the caste system will start to fall apart, and trade with the surface will make life easier for everyone. Harrowmont wants to double down on the worst parts of Dwarven society.
And the only way you know that Bhelen is going to be the better ruler is by metagaming, if you visit the dwarves as anything other than Dwarf commoner.
You know you fucked up when someone like him comes along and manages to somehow make himself look like the lesser of two evils when the other guy is a sweet old man.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
To be fair, if you were going to write a travel guide for Thedas, it's title would probably be "Thedas: This Place Is Fucked Up." Bioware set out to create a dark fantasy world, and they succeeded. I can't think of anything in that place that is a shining light of good. Even their heroic ancient order, The Grey Wardens, is for all intents and purposes a death cult who conscripts its members in a join or die ceremony.
Surprised I never found it.
Nah. The first time I played the game, I went straight Harrowmont because Bhelen was murdering people right and left and corrupting officials with bribes and lies and so on, while Harrowmont was just there being honorable.
Later, after people in this thread acting like Bhelen was the ONLY choice, I started investigating further to see if there was something, anything that made Harrowmont look evil. It's not there. Harrowmont is legitimately honorable. If you give him the crown, he doesn't even put a kill order on Bhelen, though Bhelen is an obvious threat (luckily for Harrowmont, Bhelen takes care of that himself by aggroing when you crown Harrowmont).
Dwarf Noble definitely didn't have any evidence of Harrowmont being a secrect poisoner. Even the 'secret' stuff that the noble story tells you (about Bhelen being a murderer), is actually discoverable by the other origin stories of you nose around the king's residence.
Dwarf commoner is the one origin story I don't think I got around to doing. Is there some secret evidence in that story?
But I mean then you look at the rest of Orzammar and I'm like...he's a shitty guy from a shitty city. Like quite frankly the Dwarves were just terrible altogether so it didn't surprise me that they produced terrible leaders.
And I would say at first I though Harrowment was honorable but looking back on it, he just comes off as someone who didn't want to rock the boat. Also, I'm sure his honor only extents to citizens with the status to deserve it.
Edit: Oh, god. Bull's voice still just seems so bad to me. :-(
Still not as bad as the extremely stereotypical common as muck "alrite guvnor! chipchip!" sera. Though she was somewhat tolerable in this video so maybe its just marketing picking out the worse bits before.
I think the problem is just that on average the Qunari we've been exposed to have had much gruffer voices. Bull's is actually pretty soft in comparison to say Sten or the Arishok.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Yeah that seems the most likely. He killed everyone else in his family, why not his dad too?
That and some of the qunari ingame have really human faces that don't match the rest of their heads/bodies and it's creeping me out.
Sera's "arrow in the face" comment got a chuckle out of me and I loved Cole from the livestream.
I would say Blackwall and Solas are probably the only two I'm not that sure about.
But honestly, they've gotten the least screentime out of all the characters.
I thought I remembered there being something hinting at Harrowmont doing it, but, like I said, it's been awhile since I last played the game. I might just be thinking of some theory I read online or something.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Funny, not afraid to raise grandma from her grave as a meat shield, seen the worst in magic and still believes in freedom, fancy mustache, all around good guy. Exactly the kind of mage I would want to play.
Sera's face still makes me mad every time I see it though.
Usually the young roguish female types like her are all baby-faced. She actually has a bit of a grimy quality to her that I would expect from someone who lives the way she does.
From the sound of things, she's very anti authority, violent and tired of being held down which could make her another Anders in the making.