When are leaders in the white community going to intervene and help solve this awful white-on-white violence
It's more Brown/White vs White/Brown
I know, crazy to think Mexicans in Texas are involved in criminal elements that participate in the drug trade.
Probably threw you for a real fucking loop.
What a totally necessary and enriching post
Building off what Chincy has said, it would be one thing if you were actually right and these were just dumbfuck white dudes playing Sons of Anarchy in Waco, TX.
Or you could have been the clever chap(not sarcasm, Pooro, I know you're an intelligent dude) you are and recognize that the demographics of Texas probably lend itself to a mottled color of involvement of these organizations.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
yeah, pooro was pointing at the ridiculous double standard when it comes to the discussion of 'black-on-black violence'
not sure what else you could have read from that
Not to mention the overall police response.
Where's the post shooting aftermath beatings and pepper spray and general mistreatment that gets applied to protesters? One of the main pictures circulating shows a bunch of unhandcuffed bikers sitting on a curb dicking around on their phones while surrounded by police in their normal uniforms.
It was diversity at its finest! People of all colors coming together and attempting to kill each other
AMERICA
And in what better state than Texas, who is frequently the heel of all down-the-nose looks and comments thanks to the whacky events and vocal crazy fuckers that give everybody on their high horse the ammunition they need to say bad things about everybody who resides in the state?
I read some Gawker comments like a fool this morning. Kinda set the tone for the day.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
The police were involved in the shoot out, some of the dead bikers were probably shot by the police.
Bikers were handcuffed but others weren't, possibly because the police did not have enough handcuffs.
yeah, pooro was pointing at the ridiculous double standard when it comes to the discussion of 'black-on-black violence'
not sure what else you could have read from that
Not to mention the overall police response.
Where's the post shooting aftermath beatings and pepper spray and general mistreatment that gets applied to protesters? One of the main pictures circulating shows a bunch of unhandcuffed bikers sitting on a curb dicking around on their phones while surrounded by police in their normal uniforms.
Just a huge double standard.
Well for one, nobody was protesting that the cops shot people who were actively engaged in beating, stabbing, and shooting other people.
I mean, for once you can look at a multi-agency response to a situation and go, "wow, they handled that like professionals"
If you want though you can go read Austin news about off duty detectives shooting people, or running people over while distracted by technology. Or San Marcos police slamming a girl's face into the sidewalk. Or a San Antonio police officer stealing shit from stores, or another officer sexually abusing women in custody.
Those would all be good things to protest and in turn receive an inappropriate response from the powers that be.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
The police were involved in the shoot out, some of the dead bikers were probably shot by the police.
Bikers were handcuffed but others weren't, possibly because the police did not have enough handcuffs.
Also a good point! You can only carry so many handcuffs and zip ties. 170?? That's a lot of arrests.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
yeah, pooro was pointing at the ridiculous double standard when it comes to the discussion of 'black-on-black violence'
not sure what else you could have read from that
Not to mention the overall police response.
Where's the post shooting aftermath beatings and pepper spray and general mistreatment that gets applied to protesters? One of the main pictures circulating shows a bunch of unhandcuffed bikers sitting on a curb dicking around on their phones while surrounded by police in their normal uniforms.
Just a huge double standard.
Well for one, nobody was protesting that the cops shot people who were actively engaged in beating, stabbing, and shooting other people.
I mean, for once you can look at a multi-agency response to a situation and go, "wow, they handled that like professionals"
If you want though you can go read Austin news about off duty detectives shooting people, or running people over while distracted by technology. Or San Marcos police slamming a girl's face into the sidewalk. Or a San Antonio police officer stealing shit from stores, or another officer sexually abusing women in custody.
Those would all be good things to protest and in turn receive an inappropriate response from the powers that be.
That's not what I meant at all.
These violent criminals who just engaged in a gang war are being treated better than innocent people exercising their first amendment rights.
It's just yet another example of the double standard in policing.
yeah, pooro was pointing at the ridiculous double standard when it comes to the discussion of 'black-on-black violence'
not sure what else you could have read from that
Not to mention the overall police response.
Where's the post shooting aftermath beatings and pepper spray and general mistreatment that gets applied to protesters? One of the main pictures circulating shows a bunch of unhandcuffed bikers sitting on a curb dicking around on their phones while surrounded by police in their normal uniforms.
Just a huge double standard.
Well for one, nobody was protesting that the cops shot people who were actively engaged in beating, stabbing, and shooting other people.
I mean, for once you can look at a multi-agency response to a situation and go, "wow, they handled that like professionals"
If you want though you can go read Austin news about off duty detectives shooting people, or running people over while distracted by technology. Or San Marcos police slamming a girl's face into the sidewalk. Or a San Antonio police officer stealing shit from stores, or another officer sexually abusing women in custody.
Those would all be good things to protest and in turn receive an inappropriate response from the powers that be.
That's not what I meant at all.
These violent criminals who just engaged in a gang war are being treated better than innocent people exercising their first amendment rights.
It's just yet another example of the double standard in policing.
It could also be an example of these cops being better than the ones doing fucked up shit?
It's an example of how the police act when confronting white criminals.
The fact that the police were vastly outnumbered also helps. You can't afford to antagonise the 150+ gang members you have under arrest.
yeah, pooro was pointing at the ridiculous double standard when it comes to the discussion of 'black-on-black violence'
not sure what else you could have read from that
Not to mention the overall police response.
Where's the post shooting aftermath beatings and pepper spray and general mistreatment that gets applied to protesters? One of the main pictures circulating shows a bunch of unhandcuffed bikers sitting on a curb dicking around on their phones while surrounded by police in their normal uniforms.
Just a huge double standard.
Well for one, nobody was protesting that the cops shot people who were actively engaged in beating, stabbing, and shooting other people.
I mean, for once you can look at a multi-agency response to a situation and go, "wow, they handled that like professionals"
If you want though you can go read Austin news about off duty detectives shooting people, or running people over while distracted by technology. Or San Marcos police slamming a girl's face into the sidewalk. Or a San Antonio police officer stealing shit from stores, or another officer sexually abusing women in custody.
Those would all be good things to protest and in turn receive an inappropriate response from the powers that be.
That's not what I meant at all.
These violent criminals who just engaged in a gang war are being treated better than innocent people exercising their first amendment rights.
It's just yet another example of the double standard in policing.
It could also be an example of these cops being better than the ones doing fucked up shit?
This is what I meant.
And even if they are violent criminals, once they're in custody, doesn't give anybody the right to abuse them.
I know that's what you're saying about innocent people that have suffered at the hands of people abusing their power, but this event really has no parallel (and none should be made) to current civil rights issues.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
"Here is our great opportunity! People we can beat with impunity because they are the fringe of criminal elements that almost everyone looks down upon!"
It would still be pretty fucked up!
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
No one said the police have the right to or should abuse anyone. Some people have said there are blatantly obvious, different standards when it comes to skin color and treatment of criminals. And that those different standards exist is screwed up. Those people would also be correct.
No one said the police have the right to or should abuse anyone. Some people have said there are blatantly obvious, different standards when it comes to skin color and treatment of criminals. And that those different standards exist is screwed up. Those people would also be correct.
Yes. There are different standards.
Maybe I'm being incredibly stupid here, but are we saying that we're upset that no police brutality was reported? And that because these are largely white and Hispanic bikers, different standards were applied, and a predominantly black biker gang fight would have been witness to police brutality?
Or can we accept that maybe multiple agencies across the board performed as professionally as we hope and expect them to?
I will even concede that maybe because of all the other high profile shit that has gone down, these officers were cognizant of the need to conduct themselves professionally when handling their charges! This could be a step in the right direction.
Rather than try to apply LAPD, FPD, NYPD, and BPD actions here, we should laud them for handling situation as best as circumstances allowed, with no outside injury except for direct participants involved with the brawl, and one case of heat exhaustion from an officer.
In fact, I would argue the only people who should be condemned in this situation are the ones that failed to provide any worthwhile LiveLeak footage. I don't know why I care so much about this discussion. Other than it probably belongs in a separate thread for the events and not lumped into discussion where there certainly are civil and legal issues that need to be pursued regarding violent discriminatory police treatment of minority populations.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
No people are just pointing out the differences in how the police acted in these different situations. In one they over reacted, in the other they underreacted/acted as you should. One involved black people, the other involved a very dangerous situation. and yet the police response to the more dangerous situation is the more restrained response.
Yes, they handled a dangerous situation with justified firepower. Yes, police act differently across the country. Yes, everything here was well done. First time I can legitimately say, good job Waco.
Dead Legend on
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
One could also argue that the police were prepared for the event, so their response to it was more professional than a spontaneous event where emotions and fear come into play. They knew something was going to happen and probably had a response planned. That's a far cry from most of the incidents where it's a couple of cops handling an unexpected situation.
Yeah my argument doesn't hold much water when you stop to think that they acted correctly when they were prepared, but....shouldn't a cop be prepared for any situation, spontaneous or no?
Yeah my argument doesn't hold much water when you stop to think that they acted correctly when they were prepared, but....shouldn't a cop be prepared for any situation, spontaneous or no?
No, you're thinking of Batman. The best you can hope for is that they're armed with good judgement.
No people are just pointing out the differences in how the police acted in these different situations. In one they over reacted, in the other they underreacted/acted as you should. One involved black people, the other involved a very dangerous situation. and yet the police response to the more dangerous situation is the more restrained response.
Okay, okay, I'll concede. Y'all are right. Police definitely treat majority white people involved in protests (seattle) and riots (any championship game in the midwest) than they do majority black people involved in protests (about police brutality) and riots (in response to abuse).
I guess we need to get the black biker gangs to go to Waco and find out just how this situation would play out, as they are completely separate incidents that really don't compare. Cause yeah, you had a shit ton of dudes sitting around guarded by guys with AR's and then in the other you had people demonstrating getting bumrushed and separated for arrest by riot police.
These are not events that really compare with each other. In one situation, you have a metropolitan area of 220k people and attendant police forces trying to de-escalate a situation, and in the other you have a metropolitan area of 2.7 million people and their longstanding police force tradition of abusing the fuck out of the black population cracking heads in response to them breaking someone's neck.
Yeah, the response was totally different. Do I sound like less of a dumbass trying to explain the way I've been considering these events? Or am I still a dumbass? Honest questions. No offense taken.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
This thread is turning into a shitfight and I'm pretty sure we're all on the same side. Different places but the same side.
Yes, they handled a dangerous situation with justified firepower. Yes, police act differently across the country. Yes, everything here was well done. First time I can legitimately say, good job Waco.
Guy third row down, third from the left looks like Jared Leto
Yeah my argument doesn't hold much water when you stop to think that they acted correctly when they were prepared, but....shouldn't a cop be prepared for any situation, spontaneous or no?
What argument?
I literally agreed the police did a good job in that situation.
Probably no one. The army was probably just trying to get rid of a bunch of them and rifles that had attachments for them and a bunch of police departments said "Cool! New toys!"
That is correct, and that is exactly the reasoning that led to local police departments getting military equipment in the first place. The Pentagon had a ton of vehicles and gear that they needed to find a place for and it decided to offload the stuff on the police force. At first the police were (understandably) happy to get a lot of neat new stuff to play with, but when the new APC rips up the county roads and you're contractually forced to pay for $100 grand a year for its maintenance you start getting sick of the thing pretty quickly. IIRC a bunch of police and sheriff's departments are actively looking for better-funded departments to take them off their hands. (Before this change->) The Pentagon is refusing to take them back, because why let APCs rust in an armory in the Nevada desert when you can have someone else pay for the maintenance?
Posts
If you think that was the intent of my post, you are sorely (and condescendingly!) mistaken
Building off what Chincy has said, it would be one thing if you were actually right and these were just dumbfuck white dudes playing Sons of Anarchy in Waco, TX.
Or you could have been the clever chap(not sarcasm, Pooro, I know you're an intelligent dude) you are and recognize that the demographics of Texas probably lend itself to a mottled color of involvement of these organizations.
Accept my sincerest apologies
not sure what else you could have read from that
It was diversity at its finest! People of all colors coming together and attempting to kill each other
This behavior is almost expected.
I don't think they had the SWAT van out for a meal at Twin Peaks, police were actively prepared for shit to go down.
No civil leaders gonna touch that.
AMERICA
Not to mention the overall police response.
Where's the post shooting aftermath beatings and pepper spray and general mistreatment that gets applied to protesters? One of the main pictures circulating shows a bunch of unhandcuffed bikers sitting on a curb dicking around on their phones while surrounded by police in their normal uniforms.
Just a huge double standard.
And in what better state than Texas, who is frequently the heel of all down-the-nose looks and comments thanks to the whacky events and vocal crazy fuckers that give everybody on their high horse the ammunition they need to say bad things about everybody who resides in the state?
I read some Gawker comments like a fool this morning. Kinda set the tone for the day.
I thought it was a "why are we talking about this when the racist violence/police violence is still ongoing" dig
I apologize for misunderstanding
A melting pot full of bullets
Bikers were handcuffed but others weren't, possibly because the police did not have enough handcuffs.
Well for one, nobody was protesting that the cops shot people who were actively engaged in beating, stabbing, and shooting other people.
I mean, for once you can look at a multi-agency response to a situation and go, "wow, they handled that like professionals"
If you want though you can go read Austin news about off duty detectives shooting people, or running people over while distracted by technology. Or San Marcos police slamming a girl's face into the sidewalk. Or a San Antonio police officer stealing shit from stores, or another officer sexually abusing women in custody.
Those would all be good things to protest and in turn receive an inappropriate response from the powers that be.
Also a good point! You can only carry so many handcuffs and zip ties. 170?? That's a lot of arrests.
That's not what I meant at all.
These violent criminals who just engaged in a gang war are being treated better than innocent people exercising their first amendment rights.
It's just yet another example of the double standard in policing.
It could also be an example of these cops being better than the ones doing fucked up shit?
The fact that the police were vastly outnumbered also helps. You can't afford to antagonise the 150+ gang members you have under arrest.
This is what I meant.
And even if they are violent criminals, once they're in custody, doesn't give anybody the right to abuse them.
I know that's what you're saying about innocent people that have suffered at the hands of people abusing their power, but this event really has no parallel (and none should be made) to current civil rights issues.
It would still be pretty fucked up!
Yes. There are different standards.
Maybe I'm being incredibly stupid here, but are we saying that we're upset that no police brutality was reported? And that because these are largely white and Hispanic bikers, different standards were applied, and a predominantly black biker gang fight would have been witness to police brutality?
Or can we accept that maybe multiple agencies across the board performed as professionally as we hope and expect them to?
I will even concede that maybe because of all the other high profile shit that has gone down, these officers were cognizant of the need to conduct themselves professionally when handling their charges! This could be a step in the right direction.
Rather than try to apply LAPD, FPD, NYPD, and BPD actions here, we should laud them for handling situation as best as circumstances allowed, with no outside injury except for direct participants involved with the brawl, and one case of heat exhaustion from an officer.
In fact, I would argue the only people who should be condemned in this situation are the ones that failed to provide any worthwhile LiveLeak footage. I don't know why I care so much about this discussion. Other than it probably belongs in a separate thread for the events and not lumped into discussion where there certainly are civil and legal issues that need to be pursued regarding violent discriminatory police treatment of minority populations.
You keep trying to make that to mean they want the police to brutalize everyone when that is clearly not what anyone here wants.
Above: the aforementioned diversity I mentioned
Yes, they handled a dangerous situation with justified firepower. Yes, police act differently across the country. Yes, everything here was well done. First time I can legitimately say, good job Waco.
Which highlights why all the other situations are such bullshit.
Okay, okay, I'll concede. Y'all are right. Police definitely treat majority white people involved in protests (seattle) and riots (any championship game in the midwest) than they do majority black people involved in protests (about police brutality) and riots (in response to abuse).
I guess we need to get the black biker gangs to go to Waco and find out just how this situation would play out, as they are completely separate incidents that really don't compare. Cause yeah, you had a shit ton of dudes sitting around guarded by guys with AR's and then in the other you had people demonstrating getting bumrushed and separated for arrest by riot police.
These are not events that really compare with each other. In one situation, you have a metropolitan area of 220k people and attendant police forces trying to de-escalate a situation, and in the other you have a metropolitan area of 2.7 million people and their longstanding police force tradition of abusing the fuck out of the black population cracking heads in response to them breaking someone's neck.
Yeah, the response was totally different. Do I sound like less of a dumbass trying to explain the way I've been considering these events? Or am I still a dumbass? Honest questions. No offense taken.
Guy third row down, third from the left looks like Jared Leto
What argument?
I literally agreed the police did a good job in that situation.
He probably didn't, because that was pretty much all federal.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
That is correct, and that is exactly the reasoning that led to local police departments getting military equipment in the first place. The Pentagon had a ton of vehicles and gear that they needed to find a place for and it decided to offload the stuff on the police force. At first the police were (understandably) happy to get a lot of neat new stuff to play with, but when the new APC rips up the county roads and you're contractually forced to pay for $100 grand a year for its maintenance you start getting sick of the thing pretty quickly. IIRC a bunch of police and sheriff's departments are actively looking for better-funded departments to take them off their hands. (Before this change->) The Pentagon is refusing to take them back, because why let APCs rust in an armory in the Nevada desert when you can have someone else pay for the maintenance?
I just got this crazy new idea for an ectomobile...