Ha ha, at least I wasn't the only that had some terrible games this weekend. Rubick, Doom (Me), SF, Omni, and Shadow Demon. Already that's looking pretty bad but I figured Omni could farm and if SF had a successful mid we'd probably be ok. But they had a techies. Techies is a fucking cancer. If he starts taking off in the meta, which by all accounts has already happened, I'm just gonna stop playing.
The worst part about playing against techies in pubs is being forced to carry a gem as a squishy support, and have the enemy team dive you and steal it since no carry wants to be close to the item that wins the game.
the best part was drow didn't skill precision aura until level 7, despite having a lesh and me .
i actually ended up maxing starstorm and arrow first. I didn't even grab a level in leap until 7, since I wasn't really getting pressured that much. normally grab a level in that early.
Ha ha, at least I wasn't the only that had some terrible games this weekend. Rubick, Doom (Me), SF, Omni, and Shadow Demon. Already that's looking pretty bad but I figured Omni could farm and if SF had a successful mid we'd probably be ok. But they had a techies. Techies is a fucking cancer. If he starts taking off in the meta, which by all accounts has already happened, I'm just gonna stop playing.
I actually like seeing techies be useful lately. Now when a teammate picks him its not a complete throwaway troll pick. You might actually win that game! I win nearly 70% of the time with a techies on my team...
When I'm up against him I try to pick heroes who are happy farming lane and carrying a gem. The game probably isn't going to end fast since you need it to go long enough for someone to be comfortable holding a gem to push high ground, and you wanna avoid too much roaming and getting blown up. Pick a lane and sit in it. What the fuck is he going to do? OK you need to defend 5 mans, but you win 5 man tower/base defense because... its a fuckin techies. He cant bring his mines to play outside your tower. Don't chase back into areas without vision and you're fine.
then again I think I have 46.2% win against techies so maybe I'm full of shit. (the average techies wins ~52% of their games. Therefore better than ~48% win vs techies is good, so I am actually worse than average vs techies)
I like Techies when they're in the hands of a good player, but all that really amounts to is that they're able to cover our ass significantly when we inevitably lose the 4v5 teamfights, to the point where we can dig our heels in and eventually start winning those 4v5 teamfights.
EDIT: Though I've had a few games where an exceptionally good Techies had his bombs where teamfights were going to happen, and we kept initiating on those points. I'd say those were 5v5, and they had predictable results.
Apparently a lot of players have figured out and started scripting with techies. That game I had against the last one, he had a suspiciously fast reaction time in blowing up nests.
I'm curious what they do in the pro circuit to ensure there's no scripting going on.
online? not much you could really do. you could watch and replay from player perspective and maybe catch something though.
for LAN tournaments they always have at least one admin in the room/booth with the players and they would catch on real quick if you were doing any sort of weird scripts or other cheats.
Techies either make the game last an extra 20+ min or they just suck the fun out of it (be they on my team or not)
When you have better late-game carries than your opponents dragging out the game is a totally viable strat.
Might not be fun, but it's certainly viable.
The problem is that they can only really solidly stop you on high ground so it's a turtle party.
They just make me not enjoy the game. It's like a fed riki... Sure, there are counters but you need to dedicate so much time/gold/inventory slots that it just sucks the life out of the game.
Ok, ok, we all hate techies. But the other day I was in a game with a rubick player who got an Ultra kill when the enemy team walked over his stolen remote mine nest.
The only time I find techies really frustrating is when your team isn't very good at pushing high ground, but a lot of the new items help to fix that.
You know, I love that Tiny's model upsizes as he levels up. It's one of the coolest effects, and it even telegraphs valuable information - doesn't he grow for every level 6/11/16? Or is it for every level he takes in his ulti?
But I really would love if Icefrog added mana bars and level numbers to friendly and enemy HP bars. I get that it's technically a skill to learn to check these things, but it's a kind of busywork skill. "Alright now I have to check a menu screen to figure out who's level 6", or "Now I have to click on Storm Spirit to figure out whether he can jump aw-oh never mind he's already done it." And it would still take presence of mind to use that information whether or not it was shown, which is the real 'skill' involved IMO. It just seems to be a needless extra hurdle to find information that could just be there you know?
Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
We had a 20k lead at 40m, then had to go high ground against Sniper/techies/DS/Undying. Ugh. They eventually got bored/lost discipline and we were able to rat it out with NP backdooring. That game lasted 30m longer than it should have.
You know, I love that Tiny's model upsizes as he levels up. It's one of the coolest effects, and it even telegraphs valuable information - doesn't he grow for every level 6/11/16? Or is it for every level he takes in his ulti?
But I really would love if Icefrog added mana bars and level numbers to friendly and enemy HP bars. I get that it's technically a skill to learn to check these things, but it's a kind of busywork skill. "Alright now I have to check a menu screen to figure out who's level 6", or "Now I have to click on Storm Spirit to figure out whether he can jump aw-oh never mind he's already done it." And it would still take presence of mind to use that information whether or not it was shown, which is the real 'skill' involved IMO. It just seems to be a needless extra hurdle to find information that could just be there you know?
People only have so much attention they can throw around, and part of playing well is managing that. It happens in every competitive game, you're trying to break the other players down. That's why even the best players sometimes make really stupid decisions. They get distracted, even for a second, and forget to check something, and then they get punished for it. There has to be a certain amount of busywork, as you call it. It's one reason why most competitive games are exhausting to play at high levels, because the amount of concentration needed is straining, even if you're physically just sitting in a chair for a few hours. Tournaments are endurance tests as much as they're about skill.
I think I'd squeeee with childish glee seeing that little thing huffing and puffing and swinging his tree around.
Edit: By the way, I just figured the other visual change I love in this game: Timbersaw's helmet reflecting how much reactive armor he has at the time. It looks cool and it's good to know.
Holy crap, I was talking about EG and Secret being on another level this patch at ESL, EG just absolutely smoked Virtus Pro in the upper bracket final of Dotapit. 3-0 sweep, none of the games were even close (third game finished 40-9 kills), and Fear only died twice, both in the third game, once accidentally while farming neutrals and once after the game was already out of reach.
1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
I love it when our Enigma keeps telling me we need to coordinate our ults...over the mic....and doesn't fucking communicate where he is initiating, nor pay attention to all of us telling him for the past 20 seconds that we are out of mana, nor my telling him I need 50 gold for my WD to have his Aghs, and then it's party time, nor all of us telling him we have to retreat because AA hit us with his ult and I need to heal the group real quick after it's subsided.
AA's ult in the hands of a competent AA, btw, is fucking ridiculous. Especially when paired with a double-ult from Zeus.
AA is my go to support. That ult can be used to totally change the other teams decision to fight or defend. And the low cooldown is great.
I've decided to use him more, he seems to get neglected a lot. I played him two nights ago, and really enjoyed him. Shut down a Troll pretty hard with him.
The guy using him last night was just killing our squishy team. Our Slark was the only guy worth a shit on the team, and he'd still get ulted and hunted down. The AA player just had great map sense.
That's the big thing. He's also legit one of the few supports that can go midas at 25 min. But if the team gets behind early, he usually ends up as cannon fodder. And his ult becomes pretty worthless.
Game last night aginst a lifestealer and SB. SB kept charging with lifestealer infested. And there was a bounty on their team so you could just be wandering through your own jungle and bam, 3 person gang bang. It really sucked. They still lost though, because him and his buddy wanted easy kills on supports, which would net them a kill of course, but would also leave them stranded deep in enemy territory, and so the rest of the team would simply mop them up.
That's the big thing. He's also legit one of the few supports that can go midas at 25 min. But if the team gets behind early, he usually ends up as cannon fodder. And his ult becomes pretty worthless.
Game last night aginst a lifestealer and SB. SB kept charging with lifestealer infested. And there was a bounty on their team so you could just be wandering through your own jungle and bam, 3 person gang bang. It really sucked. They still lost though, because him and his buddy wanted easy kills on supports, which would net them a kill of course, but would also leave them stranded deep in enemy territory, and so the rest of the team would simply mop them up.
Why do you say that about Midas? Not sure I follow the logic.
That's the big thing. He's also legit one of the few supports that can go midas at 25 min. But if the team gets behind early, he usually ends up as cannon fodder. And his ult becomes pretty worthless.
Game last night aginst a lifestealer and SB. SB kept charging with lifestealer infested. And there was a bounty on their team so you could just be wandering through your own jungle and bam, 3 person gang bang. It really sucked. They still lost though, because him and his buddy wanted easy kills on supports, which would net them a kill of course, but would also leave them stranded deep in enemy territory, and so the rest of the team would simply mop them up.
Why do you say that about Midas? Not sure I follow the logic.
AA needs levels more then anything else, even over items except for an aghs. Midas is one the best ways for a hero to gain a level advantage as it gives 250% exp from the creep you eat, one large camp creep can give you as much as an entire lane creep wave in exp.
So going brown boots-> midas on AA is usally the way to go, unless you have a core that can rotate to the jungle and give you a lane.
I agree but at 25min you it seems way too late. To each their own of course.
for a support that can't jungle 25mins isn't that bad of a timing.
unlike a midas on a core that can get it around 5mins and then use it accelerate farm above the other carry, your instead using it to just not drop off horribly and get past the 11->12 exp hump.
I agree but at 25min you it seems way too late. To each their own of course.
25 minutes is probably pretty late yeah, but I guess my point was that since you won't be going to fights and will be shooting your ult from across the map anyway, a late midas isn't really bad on him at all.
I agree but at 25min you it seems way too late. To each their own of course.
25 minutes is probably pretty late yeah, but I guess my point was that since you won't be going to fights and will be shooting your ult from across the map anyway, a late midas isn't really bad on him at all.
The rare times I go midas on support i usually aim for 12-15 min. The cost at 25min will get you half way to aghs.
I do it when I expect the game to go long, but it's rare. I say it's legit on AA because you can contribute to team fights far away, can't really clear waves fast, and are extremely vulnerable to ganks. The midas means you can greatly accelerate the limited farm available to you.
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
AA is my go to support. That ult can be used to totally change the other teams decision to fight or defend. And the low cooldown is great.
He synergises so well with a Bloodseeker.
Coldfeet once they've been ruptured means they either take a ton of damage, or a stun. Also prevents them TP'ing out.
And sniping people on low health from across the map because you always have vision of them.
CM + AA lane once. Was hilarious.
PSN: Canadian_llama
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MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
Did a single draft last night, and got Veno.
I think I quite like him. Still trying to think what team comp he'd be good/against in.
For your team, you'll need someone else to bring the stuns, and you want longish fights for your ult and dots to do the work.
For the enemy team, you'll want low mobility heroes, and heroes that rely on blink daggers since you lacka stun, but have a nasty slow. And plague ward is great at stopping blink dagger initiations.
I just want so many expensive items on him, and it's hard to do when you're playing support.
Though you do safe a bit of cash on lane wards.
edit: One reason I like him, is that he has an easy and cheap harrassing mechanism for early laning with his poison sting.
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i actually ended up maxing starstorm and arrow first. I didn't even grab a level in leap until 7, since I wasn't really getting pressured that much. normally grab a level in that early.
also lesh maxed edict first and didn't push
I actually like seeing techies be useful lately. Now when a teammate picks him its not a complete throwaway troll pick. You might actually win that game! I win nearly 70% of the time with a techies on my team...
When I'm up against him I try to pick heroes who are happy farming lane and carrying a gem. The game probably isn't going to end fast since you need it to go long enough for someone to be comfortable holding a gem to push high ground, and you wanna avoid too much roaming and getting blown up. Pick a lane and sit in it. What the fuck is he going to do? OK you need to defend 5 mans, but you win 5 man tower/base defense because... its a fuckin techies. He cant bring his mines to play outside your tower. Don't chase back into areas without vision and you're fine.
then again I think I have 46.2% win against techies so maybe I'm full of shit. (the average techies wins ~52% of their games. Therefore better than ~48% win vs techies is good, so I am actually worse than average vs techies)
Steam: adamjnet
EDIT: Though I've had a few games where an exceptionally good Techies had his bombs where teamfights were going to happen, and we kept initiating on those points. I'd say those were 5v5, and they had predictable results.
in offline tourneys at least they typically have to use the host computers and have a hard drive with their settings on it.
online? not much you could really do. you could watch and replay from player perspective and maybe catch something though.
for LAN tournaments they always have at least one admin in the room/booth with the players and they would catch on real quick if you were doing any sort of weird scripts or other cheats.
Giggle like a schoolgirl everytime.
"Oh no, I'm just a helpless _____ at half health, fleeing from the pursuing carry! Whatever will I d*BOOM*!"
When you have better late-game carries than your opponents dragging out the game is a totally viable strat.
Might not be fun, but it's certainly viable.
The problem is that they can only really solidly stop you on high ground so it's a turtle party.
They just make me not enjoy the game. It's like a fed riki... Sure, there are counters but you need to dedicate so much time/gold/inventory slots that it just sucks the life out of the game.
The only time I find techies really frustrating is when your team isn't very good at pushing high ground, but a lot of the new items help to fix that.
But I really would love if Icefrog added mana bars and level numbers to friendly and enemy HP bars. I get that it's technically a skill to learn to check these things, but it's a kind of busywork skill. "Alright now I have to check a menu screen to figure out who's level 6", or "Now I have to click on Storm Spirit to figure out whether he can jump aw-oh never mind he's already done it." And it would still take presence of mind to use that information whether or not it was shown, which is the real 'skill' involved IMO. It just seems to be a needless extra hurdle to find information that could just be there you know?
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1594773503
We had a 20k lead at 40m, then had to go high ground against Sniper/techies/DS/Undying. Ugh. They eventually got bored/lost discipline and we were able to rat it out with NP backdooring. That game lasted 30m longer than it should have.
I have only ever seen that once before.
People only have so much attention they can throw around, and part of playing well is managing that. It happens in every competitive game, you're trying to break the other players down. That's why even the best players sometimes make really stupid decisions. They get distracted, even for a second, and forget to check something, and then they get punished for it. There has to be a certain amount of busywork, as you call it. It's one reason why most competitive games are exhausting to play at high levels, because the amount of concentration needed is straining, even if you're physically just sitting in a chair for a few hours. Tournaments are endurance tests as much as they're about skill.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Edit: By the way, I just figured the other visual change I love in this game: Timbersaw's helmet reflecting how much reactive armor he has at the time. It looks cool and it's good to know.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
AA's ult in the hands of a competent AA, btw, is fucking ridiculous. Especially when paired with a double-ult from Zeus.
I've decided to use him more, he seems to get neglected a lot. I played him two nights ago, and really enjoyed him. Shut down a Troll pretty hard with him.
The guy using him last night was just killing our squishy team. Our Slark was the only guy worth a shit on the team, and he'd still get ulted and hunted down. The AA player just had great map sense.
That's the big thing. He's also legit one of the few supports that can go midas at 25 min. But if the team gets behind early, he usually ends up as cannon fodder. And his ult becomes pretty worthless.
Game last night aginst a lifestealer and SB. SB kept charging with lifestealer infested. And there was a bounty on their team so you could just be wandering through your own jungle and bam, 3 person gang bang. It really sucked. They still lost though, because him and his buddy wanted easy kills on supports, which would net them a kill of course, but would also leave them stranded deep in enemy territory, and so the rest of the team would simply mop them up.
Why do you say that about Midas? Not sure I follow the logic.
AA needs levels more then anything else, even over items except for an aghs. Midas is one the best ways for a hero to gain a level advantage as it gives 250% exp from the creep you eat, one large camp creep can give you as much as an entire lane creep wave in exp.
So going brown boots-> midas on AA is usally the way to go, unless you have a core that can rotate to the jungle and give you a lane.
for a support that can't jungle 25mins isn't that bad of a timing.
unlike a midas on a core that can get it around 5mins and then use it accelerate farm above the other carry, your instead using it to just not drop off horribly and get past the 11->12 exp hump.
25 minutes is probably pretty late yeah, but I guess my point was that since you won't be going to fights and will be shooting your ult from across the map anyway, a late midas isn't really bad on him at all.
The rare times I go midas on support i usually aim for 12-15 min. The cost at 25min will get you half way to aghs.
He synergises so well with a Bloodseeker.
Coldfeet once they've been ruptured means they either take a ton of damage, or a stun. Also prevents them TP'ing out.
And sniping people on low health from across the map because you always have vision of them.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
CM + AA lane once. Was hilarious.
I think I quite like him. Still trying to think what team comp he'd be good/against in.
For your team, you'll need someone else to bring the stuns, and you want longish fights for your ult and dots to do the work.
For the enemy team, you'll want low mobility heroes, and heroes that rely on blink daggers since you lacka stun, but have a nasty slow. And plague ward is great at stopping blink dagger initiations.
I just want so many expensive items on him, and it's hard to do when you're playing support.
Though you do safe a bit of cash on lane wards.
edit: One reason I like him, is that he has an easy and cheap harrassing mechanism for early laning with his poison sting.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious