"What opportunities do you think the younger generation will receive?"
"Economic opportunities in GREAT Britain!"
"If I may, as a 19 year old Leave voter, I believe that the majority of my generation have been incredibly naive in this vote. Ho ho ho."
I do find it a little frustrating that the young are being blamed so much for not turning out when they've not had much of a helping hand. When I was 18 I voted but only because my working class family is interested in politics. The news was complex and did not make it clear to me how I as a young person would be effected, the economy is complicated and hardly accessible to understand. There was no education in school about politics or the importance of voting. It required me doing a lot of "and why.. and whats that.. and who?" to understand a lot of things.
Corbyn sabotaged Labour’s remain campaign. He must resign
This leads to me to the greatest betrayal and the final straw for many MPs. I have been told and shown evidence by an overwhelming number of unimpeachably neutral Labour remain staff that Corbyn’s office, for which he must take full responsibility, consistently attempted to weaken and sabotage the Labour remain campaign, in contravention of the party’s official position. For example, they resisted all polling and focus group evidence on message and tone, raised no campaign finance, failed to engage with the campaign delivery and deliberately weakened and damaged the argument Labour sought to make.
"Phil Wilson is the MP for Sedgefield and was chair of the Labour in for Britain group in the parliamentary Labour party."
This whole shitshow reminds me of the double-boat scene from The Dark Knight.
You have Brexit and Remain MP's on each boat, each with the detonator to the other side's boat, and now that the election is done, nobody is willing to pull the trigger, one side, because they don't think it's right to blow up the other boat, and the other side, because while they want to, they don't personally want to blow up the boat.
It makes for a good movie, but in real life, it is complete bullshit. Parliament played fucking chicken with the country in a way that would make our puppet theater of US Congress in awe.
I do find it a little frustrating that the young are being blamed so much for not turning out when they've not had much of a helping hand. When I was 18 I voted but only because my working class family is interested in politics. The news was complex and did not make it clear to me how I as a young person would be effected, the economy is complicated and hardly accessible to understand. There was no education in school about politics or the importance of voting. It required me doing a lot of "and why.. and whats that.. and who?" to understand a lot of things.
I am certainly not blaming young people exclusively. Cameron and Osborne, Johnson and Gove, Farage, the tabloids, Corbyn, racists, thick people, old people, those riding the roflcopter. Plenty of blame to go around.
It's not like everyone else had a firm grasp of the issues, and while I sympathise about the news being unclear and contradictory, young people have the advantage of the internet if they actually want to investigate things further. We didn't get citizenship lessons twenty five years ago either.
This whole shitshow reminds me of the double-boat scene from The Dark Knight.
You have Brexit and Remain MP's on each boat, each with the detonator to the other side's boat, and now that the election is done, nobody is willing to pull the trigger, one side, because they don't think it's right to blow up the other boat, and the other side, because while they want to, they don't personally want to blow up the boat.
It makes for a good movie, but in real life, it is complete bullshit. Parliament played fucking chicken with the country in a way that would make our puppet theater of US Congress in awe.
That was a fantastic bit in the movie, apropos of nothing
Is it different EU people saying "no negotiation, get on with it" and "well think long and hard about it" and "hey Scotland, got a sec?" I appear to have seen all three stances put out over the past few days.
This whole shitshow reminds me of the double-boat scene from The Dark Knight.
You have Brexit and Remain MP's on each boat, each with the detonator to the other side's boat, and now that the election is done, nobody is willing to pull the trigger, one side, because they don't think it's right to blow up the other boat, and the other side, because while they want to, they don't personally want to blow up the boat.
It makes for a good movie, but in real life, it is complete bullshit. Parliament played fucking chicken with the country in a way that would make our puppet theater of US Congress in awe.
only in this case instead of trying to decide whether or not to blow up the other boat everyone is to busy tearing apart the boat they're currently on, making the entire thing moot.
I do find it a little frustrating that the young are being blamed so much for not turning out when they've not had much of a helping hand. When I was 18 I voted but only because my working class family is interested in politics. The news was complex and did not make it clear to me how I as a young person would be effected, the economy is complicated and hardly accessible to understand. There was no education in school about politics or the importance of voting. It required me doing a lot of "and why.. and whats that.. and who?" to understand a lot of things.
I am certainly not blaming young people exclusively. Cameron and Osborne, Johnson and Gove, Farage, the tabloids, Corbyn, racists, thick people, old people, those riding the roflcopter. Plenty of blame to go around.
It's not like everyone else had a firm grasp of the issues, and while I sympathise about the news being unclear and contradictory, young people have the advantage of the internet if they actually want to investigate things further. We didn't get citizenship lessons twenty five years ago either.
I'm not disagreeing! Just putting a perspective out there.
This has been so depressing/fascinating to watch from across the pond.
I think some people here said it best: it's a dog that caught a car and now has no idea what to do with it. Seems like some MPs are figuring out that it's very easy to say 'no', much harder to actually build something.
This whole shitshow reminds me of the double-boat scene from The Dark Knight.
You have Brexit and Remain MP's on each boat, each with the detonator to the other side's boat, and now that the election is done, nobody is willing to pull the trigger, one side, because they don't think it's right to blow up the other boat, and the other side, because while they want to, they don't personally want to blow up the boat.
It makes for a good movie, but in real life, it is complete bullshit. Parliament played fucking chicken with the country in a way that would make our puppet theater of US Congress in awe.
That was a fantastic bit in the movie, apropos of nothing
Is it different EU people saying "no negotiation, get on with it" and "well think long and hard about it" and "hey Scotland, got a sec?" I appear to have seen all three stances put out over the past few days.
the Germans seems to be the calming influence here*. Merkel has said there's no need to get nasty over the negotiations, and her staff have been making comments about opening the door for Scotland. i think its the French and the Dutch that have been pushing for things to start immediately.
*yeah, just take a moment and let that one settle in.
This has been so depressing/fascinating to watch from across the pond.
I think some people here said it best: it's a dog that caught a car and now has no idea what to do with it. Seems like some MPs are figuring out that it's very easy to say 'no', much harder to actually build something.
The final Question Time question about the sudden and dramatic reduction in funding for research being cut off without an answer was unfortunate. I'm seeing a ton of scientists absolutely panicking - they're already losing out on funding and collaboration opportunities.
This whole shitshow reminds me of the double-boat scene from The Dark Knight.
You have Brexit and Remain MP's on each boat, each with the detonator to the other side's boat, and now that the election is done, nobody is willing to pull the trigger, one side, because they don't think it's right to blow up the other boat, and the other side, because while they want to, they don't personally want to blow up the boat.
It makes for a good movie, but in real life, it is complete bullshit. Parliament played fucking chicken with the country in a way that would make our puppet theater of US Congress in awe.
That was a fantastic bit in the movie, apropos of nothing
Is it different EU people saying "no negotiation, get on with it" and "well think long and hard about it" and "hey Scotland, got a sec?" I appear to have seen all three stances put out over the past few days.
Yes, it is. Some EU officials have reached out to Sturgeon, Some are calling for Britain to invoke Article 50 immediately (or at least on Tuesday) as promised before the result and Merkel is calling for calm and trying to get all sides to pause and think things through.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
That reminds me, I was talking to my brother-in-law, who works with a lot of Polish folk in construction, and many of those who have actually gotten citizenship here voted leave.
They appear to have been swayed by the anti-immigration rhetoric by believing it was referring to Middle Eastern immigrants.
Cognitive dissonance and the misinterpretation of dog whistles make me sad.
The amount of drivel in the comments section on Guardian articles today has been infuriating. How can so many people blindly follow Corbyn and chalk all this rebellion up as a Blairite plot?? I wouldn't be surprised if I keep reading through the comments to find people unironically calling others 'sheeple' and to 'wake up'.
They're accusing the Guardian of forming an orchestrated attack to bring Corbyn down... well.. no shit! The man is an imbecile, not to mention a liar. I don't bemoan him for having his views on the EU but to come out and say "I'm Remain" while so clearly thinking "I want to Leave" is despicable of an Opposition Leader. I'm fully in support of any campaign to get rid of him.
oh look an old article about the lead up to Brexit in the town I used to live in. Who was it here who was asking whether how the Cornish could possibly vote to leave? @Crimson King ??
The amount of drivel in the comments section on Guardian articles today has been infuriating. How can so many people blindly follow Corbyn and chalk all this rebellion up as a Blairite plot?? I wouldn't be surprised if I keep reading through the comments to find people unironically calling others 'sheeple' and to 'wake up'.
They're accusing the Guardian of forming an orchestrated attack to bring Corbyn down... well.. no shit! The man is an imbecile, not to mention a liar. I don't bemoan him for having his views on the EU but to come out and say "I'm Remain" while so clearly thinking "I want to Leave" is despicable of an Opposition Leader. I'm fully in support of any campaign to get rid of him.
People think its a Blairite plot for the same reason they bought into the Leave campaign. MPs are telling them that is the case.
Meanwhile, on our side of the Irish Sea our Taoiseach is heading to Brussels to lay out our government's key priorities over the next few weeks and get them secured as much as possible.
oh look an old article about the lead up to Brexit in the town I used to live in. Who was it here who was asking whether how the Cornish could possibly vote to leave? @Crimson King ??
OK, I have a semi-serious question: how anti-immigrant is Ireland (both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland)? And Scotland? Do the Scottish and the Northern Irish put their economic interests first, or are they less xenophobic than the English and Welsh? How welcoming is the Republic of Ireland to immigrants?
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
I must be incredibly sheltered/lucky to have met very few (maybe 2/3) people with anti-immigration views. I'm baffled by the attitudes. I do only have very liberal social groups though.
OK, I have a semi-serious question: how anti-immigrant is Ireland (both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland)? And Scotland? Do the Scottish and the Northern Irish put their economic interests first, or are they less xenophobic than the English and Welsh? How welcoming is the Republic of Ireland to immigrants?
I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge as whenever I hear anybody here going on about immigrants coming to Ireland and taking "all the jobs" this red mist covers my eyes while I dissolve into rage at the blatant ignorance of them failing to acknowledge that we have done exactly the same thing to every other country in the world since the freaking famine!
So I would say we're not great at all and, more importantly, the resources for immigration assistance in the Republic are underfunded and understaffed, but I might be a bit harsh because I have absolutely no time for that bullshit and really a lot of our resources are underfunded and understaffed.
The amount of drivel in the comments section on Guardian articles today has been infuriating. How can so many people blindly follow Corbyn and chalk all this rebellion up as a Blairite plot?? I wouldn't be surprised if I keep reading through the comments to find people unironically calling others 'sheeple' and to 'wake up'.
They're accusing the Guardian of forming an orchestrated attack to bring Corbyn down... well.. no shit! The man is an imbecile, not to mention a liar. I don't bemoan him for having his views on the EU but to come out and say "I'm Remain" while so clearly thinking "I want to Leave" is despicable of an Opposition Leader. I'm fully in support of any campaign to get rid of him.
I can't resent Cornyn for being anti EU. I can absolutely resent him for essentially running a false flag operation and intentionally misrepresenting his views to sabotage the other side from within.
That reminds me, I was talking to my brother-in-law, who works with a lot of Polish folk in construction, and many of those who have actually gotten citizenship here voted leave.
They appear to have been swayed by the anti-immigration rhetoric by believing it was referring to Middle Eastern immigrants.
Cognitive dissonance and the misinterpretation of dog whistles make me sad.
Sadly makes sense, since Poland itself is headed in the xenophobic direction at a run if Britain is heading there at a trot.
OK, I have a semi-serious question: how anti-immigrant is Ireland (both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland)? And Scotland? Do the Scottish and the Northern Irish put their economic interests first, or are they less xenophobic than the English and Welsh? How welcoming is the Republic of Ireland to immigrants?
There is a difference in the proportions of geo-economic stuff in scotland. Scotland has two big cities and then drops down to small towns, there aren't really equivalents to the medium sized post-industrial/seafront towns of the English midlands or North that have formed the backbone of the leave campaign.
There are parts of scotland that pretty xenophobic in very similar ways to those down in England, they just compose a smaller fraction of the country and are influenced by the scottish political parties strong pro-EU rhetoric.
oh look an old article about the lead up to Brexit in the town I used to live in. Who was it here who was asking whether how the Cornish could possibly vote to leave? @Crimson King ??
More than a million ‘Brexiters’ have become Regrexiters now they have seen the political and economic fallout, according to a poll carried out by Survation.
In total, 7% of those surveyed said they wished they had not voted for Britain to leave the European Union – equal to around 1,130,000 people.
Around 4% said they regretted voting Remain, which works out at around 696,000 people.
The numbers would not be enough to change the referendum result, which showed 1.27 million more people were in favour of Leave.
But it would cut the victory margin down to less than a million.
oh look an old article about the lead up to Brexit in the town I used to live in. Who was it here who was asking whether how the Cornish could possibly vote to leave? @Crimson King ??
Posts
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
"What opportunities do you think the younger generation will receive?"
"Economic opportunities in GREAT Britain!"
"If I may, as a 19 year old Leave voter, I believe that the majority of my generation have been incredibly naive in this vote. Ho ho ho."
Is that Benn + 10 resignations, or have 12 people left the Shadow Cabinet?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-must-resign-inadequate-leader-betrayal "Phil Wilson is the MP for Sedgefield and was chair of the Labour in for Britain group in the parliamentary Labour party."
BBC are reposting it as him being 'the 11th to depart', so i'm assuming that they're counting Benn. so that's 1 sacking and 10 resignations so far.
Yes it's 11 departures rather than resignations. My mistake! Sorry!
You have Brexit and Remain MP's on each boat, each with the detonator to the other side's boat, and now that the election is done, nobody is willing to pull the trigger, one side, because they don't think it's right to blow up the other boat, and the other side, because while they want to, they don't personally want to blow up the boat.
It makes for a good movie, but in real life, it is complete bullshit. Parliament played fucking chicken with the country in a way that would make our puppet theater of US Congress in awe.
I am certainly not blaming young people exclusively. Cameron and Osborne, Johnson and Gove, Farage, the tabloids, Corbyn, racists, thick people, old people, those riding the roflcopter. Plenty of blame to go around.
It's not like everyone else had a firm grasp of the issues, and while I sympathise about the news being unclear and contradictory, young people have the advantage of the internet if they actually want to investigate things further. We didn't get citizenship lessons twenty five years ago either.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
That was a fantastic bit in the movie, apropos of nothing
Is it different EU people saying "no negotiation, get on with it" and "well think long and hard about it" and "hey Scotland, got a sec?" I appear to have seen all three stances put out over the past few days.
only in this case instead of trying to decide whether or not to blow up the other boat everyone is to busy tearing apart the boat they're currently on, making the entire thing moot.
I'm not disagreeing! Just putting a perspective out there.
I think some people here said it best: it's a dog that caught a car and now has no idea what to do with it. Seems like some MPs are figuring out that it's very easy to say 'no', much harder to actually build something.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
the Germans seems to be the calming influence here*. Merkel has said there's no need to get nasty over the negotiations, and her staff have been making comments about opening the door for Scotland. i think its the French and the Dutch that have been pushing for things to start immediately.
*yeah, just take a moment and let that one settle in.
"Hold on, reverend. I actually have two coats."
Yes, it is. Some EU officials have reached out to Sturgeon, Some are calling for Britain to invoke Article 50 immediately (or at least on Tuesday) as promised before the result and Merkel is calling for calm and trying to get all sides to pause and think things through.
Tossers.
That reminds me, I was talking to my brother-in-law, who works with a lot of Polish folk in construction, and many of those who have actually gotten citizenship here voted leave.
They appear to have been swayed by the anti-immigration rhetoric by believing it was referring to Middle Eastern immigrants.
Cognitive dissonance and the misinterpretation of dog whistles make me sad.
They're accusing the Guardian of forming an orchestrated attack to bring Corbyn down... well.. no shit! The man is an imbecile, not to mention a liar. I don't bemoan him for having his views on the EU but to come out and say "I'm Remain" while so clearly thinking "I want to Leave" is despicable of an Opposition Leader. I'm fully in support of any campaign to get rid of him.
https://next.ft.com/content/9b881406-1b46-11e6-b286-cddde55ca122
I lived opposite the wharf they focus on. It was ... kind of a weird place.
People think its a Blairite plot for the same reason they bought into the Leave campaign. MPs are telling them that is the case.
And for interest, a more recent, and more nuanced view of the underlying socioeconomic reasons people might vote to leave the EU even when directly benefiting from them
http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/
OK, I have a semi-serious question: how anti-immigrant is Ireland (both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland)? And Scotland? Do the Scottish and the Northern Irish put their economic interests first, or are they less xenophobic than the English and Welsh? How welcoming is the Republic of Ireland to immigrants?
I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge as whenever I hear anybody here going on about immigrants coming to Ireland and taking "all the jobs" this red mist covers my eyes while I dissolve into rage at the blatant ignorance of them failing to acknowledge that we have done exactly the same thing to every other country in the world since the freaking famine!
So I would say we're not great at all and, more importantly, the resources for immigration assistance in the Republic are underfunded and understaffed, but I might be a bit harsh because I have absolutely no time for that bullshit and really a lot of our resources are underfunded and understaffed.
I can't resent Cornyn for being anti EU. I can absolutely resent him for essentially running a false flag operation and intentionally misrepresenting his views to sabotage the other side from within.
Sadly makes sense, since Poland itself is headed in the xenophobic direction at a run if Britain is heading there at a trot.
There is a difference in the proportions of geo-economic stuff in scotland. Scotland has two big cities and then drops down to small towns, there aren't really equivalents to the medium sized post-industrial/seafront towns of the English midlands or North that have formed the backbone of the leave campaign.
There are parts of scotland that pretty xenophobic in very similar ways to those down in England, they just compose a smaller fraction of the country and are influenced by the scottish political parties strong pro-EU rhetoric.
Adam Boulton is the presenter of Sky News Tonight.
The Guardian is saying that Chris Bryant has resigned as shadow Commons leader. Corbyn is going to have a hard time quickly finding replacements.
King Corbyn alone, cast out, shouting into the hurricane
The idea that large parts of the country has no interest in the future is a terrifying concept indeed.
It has a horrible resonance. As an outsider, resigned nihilism has always seemed to be a strong element in the less prosperous parts of UK society.