I wonder if they'll include new achievements and trophies to try and draw people back in?
I might give it another go
After spending six months playing it solo because the 60+ people I added to my previously non-existent Uplay friends list bailed on the game like panicky rats from a slightly listing ship I'm sort of super jaded though
Because god damn did this game end up sucking solo
+1
Options
DietarySupplementStill not approved by the FDADublin, OHRegistered Userregular
I'm excited; I'll be checking out the patch on Tuesday. I've been watching closely all the stuff they've been doing on the PTR. All looks good.
0
Options
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited October 2016
I'll check it out at least, my buddy really liked this game, I hope to play a little more with him, I havent seen much of him since he had a second kid.
But reading this thread now makes me think I should cancel it.
Is it worth $14?
Yes. $20 would have me reservedly saying "If you've got nothing else to drop $20 on, sure." Although, bear in mind the price is extremely volatile: last Thursday, Amazon marked the game down to $13.50...it seems the price changes on a daily basis.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
If they had the infrastructure to support an endgame that didn't require PVP in place at launch, instead of assurances that there is endgame PVE content that wouldn't require PVP...
they would have fared much better in public opinion toward the game. even the gap between launch and the first incursion hurt at lot.
Adding cut the rope amidst a sea of "people are stealing my stuff I hate PVP why do I have to do it" complaints also wasn't a great thing to do.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
In his review of Left4Dead, Yahtzee refers to the PVP mode as a "hilarious griefing engine", and that stuck with me. It sounds like The Division really wanted to drive the players into conflict, but didn't have a grasp of how to do it mechanically without alienating parts of the fanbase. I haven't played the game, though I have read through this entire thread, I was hyped to give it a whirl eventually, but each attempt to 'fix' that end game just made me less and less inclined to do so. Being a PC gamer and hearing that it was even worse there kind of sealed that fate.
It's a shame, because 5 of my friends bought it at launch, and at least 2 of them seem to feel cheated out of the experience they'd hoped to have (though that's a larger issue with tangents of scheduling and max party sizes and whatnot).
Co-op is a big way to draw me into a game, but competitive aspects don't hold much appeal. ME3's multiplayer was a massive hit with my group for this reason; you still had jerks and the occasional idiot/troll, but the game didn't actively incentivize this behaviour.
Not that I'm saying that's specifically the case here, but it does feel like there's a somewhat at odds disparity in play, but again, that's mostly from hearing what my friends report on the matter and what I've read in here.
"Hell is other people", indeed.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Until I see patch notes where they mention explicitly that gear-score has been normalized and thrown out for PVP then I have no desire to return to this game. Some of those things in 1.4 might make it worth taking a second look, but when you reach a point that skill means practically nothing in PVP then you've lost me. Even if someone has 'better gear' than me, I should still have a chance at beating them with coordination or just flat better tactics.
When you can drop a full magazine of head/chest shots into someone and they don't even lose a tick on the HP bar there is something Fundamentally wrong with your game.
Until I see patch notes where they mention explicitly that gear-score has been normalized and thrown out for PVP then I have no desire to return to this game. Some of those things in 1.4 might make it worth taking a second look, but when you reach a point that skill means practically nothing in PVP then you've lost me. Even if someone has 'better gear' than me, I should still have a chance at beating them with coordination or just flat better tactics.
When you can drop a full magazine of head/chest shots into someone and they don't even lose a tick on the HP bar there is something Fundamentally wrong with your game.
This sort of happens in video games with loot though, right? If loot didn't matter then what's the point of playing it?
But reading this thread now makes me think I should cancel it.
Is it worth $14?
Yes. $20 would have me reservedly saying "If you've got nothing else to drop $20 on, sure." Although, bear in mind the price is extremely volatile: last Thursday, Amazon marked the game down to $13.50...it seems the price changes on a daily basis.
Yeah, playing through the whole thing at least once was a bunch of fun; better with people obviously but you should still have a good time.
I don't think I've actually played this game since a month or so after it launched; I imagine I'll have another look at some point down the line to see how things are, after 1.4.
Until I see patch notes where they mention explicitly that gear-score has been normalized and thrown out for PVP then I have no desire to return to this game. Some of those things in 1.4 might make it worth taking a second look, but when you reach a point that skill means practically nothing in PVP then you've lost me. Even if someone has 'better gear' than me, I should still have a chance at beating them with coordination or just flat better tactics.
When you can drop a full magazine of head/chest shots into someone and they don't even lose a tick on the HP bar there is something Fundamentally wrong with your game.
This sort of happens in video games with loot though, right? If loot didn't matter then what's the point of playing it?
Destiny normalizes its pvp content, but the PVP takes place in a defined environment.
Balanced PVP in RPGs and games with heavy RPG mechanics is a tricky thing to balance though.
Because the Division actually a pk system, there isn't any semblance of competitive balance. There isn't supposed to be one either. Expecting even teams and fair matches out of the PK in the Division is just setting yourself up for frustration.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
How does it work in more traditional RPGs? I'm guessing if you're lower level than someone and they take a disliking to you they can just blast you off the face of whatever fictional planet you're on...
As I understand it, gear score isn't normalized. However, I think what they have implemented is more concrete world tiers, where everything, including NPCs, are scaled in different tiers based upon your current gear score.
How does it work in more traditional RPGs? I'm guessing if you're lower level than someone and they take a disliking to you they can just blast you off the face of whatever fictional planet you're on...
In the Division the Dark Zone was broken down by gear score thresholds. But you could put a god-tier gun on and tank your other gear by stuffing it on alts and wreck people. The range for gear score was also based off your entire inventory, so if you managed to get a high gear score item and it bumped your overall average up, you'd be fighting out of tier in the Dark Zone both against the AI and players.
Other games normalize your damage, movement speed and/or other perks to create a competitive environment. Damage caps are the most common thing, given while a level 30 mob may have 100000k HP to your 60k damage per shot, a player doesn't. This is also why charm effects in games where they don't scale the damage that the mobs deal render them ineffective, or have a damage bonus while charmed. Some games add in additional stats to explicitly mitigate player damage (like resilience in WoW), half the duration of effects, and/or add diminishing returns to player abilities used against players, among other stuff.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
As I understand it, gear score isn't normalized. However, I think what they have implemented is more concrete world tiers, where everything, including NPCs, are scaled in different tiers based upon your current gear score.
from reading an article on the division site, you choose the tier of enemies you want to fight, particularly in the open world. That tier will only drop certain levels of loot, so as you get better loot, you can advance the tiers and get better and better stuff.
How does it work in more traditional RPGs? I'm guessing if you're lower level than someone and they take a disliking to you they can just blast you off the face of whatever fictional planet you're on...
In the Division the Dark Zone was broken down by gear score thresholds. But you could put a god-tier gun on and tank your other gear by stuffing it on alts and wreck people. The range for gear score was also based off your entire inventory, so if you managed to get a high gear score item and it bumped your overall average up, you'd be fighting out of tier in the Dark Zone both against the AI and players.
Other games normalize your damage, movement speed and/or other perks to create a competitive environment. Damage caps are the most common thing, given while a level 30 mob may have 100000k HP to your 60k damage per shot, a player doesn't. This is also why charm effects in games where they don't scale the damage that the mobs deal render them ineffective, or have a damage bonus while charmed. Some games add in additional stats to explicitly mitigate player damage (like resilience in WoW), half the duration of effects, and/or add diminishing returns to player abilities used against players, among other stuff.
Also, because there were tiers, you were quite often locked out of playing with at least half your friends.
But reading this thread now makes me think I should cancel it.
Is it worth $14?
Until you hit max level, it's a unique mix of open world gameplay and good shooting mechanics with environments that makes sense and don't look like they arbitrarily have chest high walls just to give you cover.
A lot of complaints (though by no means all) had been about how that aspect of the game was completely dropped at 30 in favor of instanced group content and attempts to force players into a pvp environment because people really missed the game they'd played until then.
But reading this thread now makes me think I should cancel it.
Is it worth $14?
Until you hit max level, it's a unique mix of open world gameplay and good shooting mechanics with environments that makes sense and don't look like they arbitrarily have chest high walls just to give you cover.
A lot of complaints (though by no means all) had been about how that aspect of the game was completely dropped at 30 in favor of instanced group content and attempts to force players into a pvp environment because people really missed the game they'd played until then.
I'd say it is worth 14 bucks easy. New patch has really changed the post game. You dont need to go into the DZ if you dont want to. My problem with the game before 1.4 was the best PVE in the game was in the dark zone. Run around the land marks take out mobs, hit supply caches and air drops and fighting off waves of enemies as you extract supplies. I enjoyed it the most when you had others around but nobody was being a fuck and shooting you in the face. Just helping out and killing guys kinda co-op.
But reading this thread now makes me think I should cancel it.
Is it worth $14?
Until you hit max level, it's a unique mix of open world gameplay and good shooting mechanics with environments that makes sense and don't look like they arbitrarily have chest high walls just to give you cover.
A lot of complaints (though by no means all) had been about how that aspect of the game was completely dropped at 30 in favor of instanced group content and attempts to force players into a pvp environment because people really missed the game they'd played until then.
which just got completely changed in the latest patch (the end game stuff, that is), as they're making everything in the open-world scale to the different tiers of "gear score" and streamlining how the gear works overall.
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
eehh not so much even before 1.4 you could avoid the DZ completely, though that meant running Incursions etc, emptying hundreds of bullets into a single mob at the highest difficulty. The DZ just had a a couple of gear sets that you could only get in the DZ. Due to the bullet sponge mobs you had to have specifically optimized gear sets with little deviation, which was no fun. You had to have X skills with X gear otherwise you would be one shotted by shotgunners on Challenging modes.
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
I had falsely made the wrong idea about this game before release. The way they had marketed the city confused me (And I know it's my fault) but what I actually wanted was that traveling through Manhattan would be an actual expedition of sorts.
From the E3 demos, it seemed the streets would be full of obstacles, places to explore and lots of dangers. Something like The Last of Us, where you have to overcome lots of roadblocks of sorts and it all becomes a matter of survival. It made the idea of going deeper into the city be an actual expedition and that it would take literal days of play sessions to get there. This way you would effectively contain players to certain areas, and you would also make the DZ something like a shortcut to get from one side to the other, but it being a very dangerous and difficult route, so you'd choose a safer but longer route, or brave the DZ as fast as possible.
But instead, it's mostly empty streets, so you just run in a straight line to get where you want to, and then you get fast travel and all that disappears. The game is still a lot of fun, but I really wish we would have had survival elements, and clogged up streets that forced you to go into buildings to find another route. Hopefully something like this gets made in the future.
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
In GTA: Online, you had to watch out for the guy who got a tank (wasn't there a glitch that let you garage em too somehow?).
In The Division, some players take enough damage off cooldowns to be walking tanks.
yea there was a build that pretty much made you neigh unkillable, that along with the builds that would one shot other players with sticky bombs. They changed a ton so we will see if the players discover more cheese builds for those who do want to venture into the DZ.
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
Ehh...not really, though? It was one option, yes...but there were also Challenge mode missions. For me, being able to reliably run Challenge modes was the end game. DZ didn't exist unless I was being dragged in there by the group I was with.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
PA people, how is the new patch? I can't play this week, but I would like opinions? As someone who had a huge gap of playing after that first weird incursion(?) thing, then played 30 minutes of underground before going FUCK THAT, is the game less poo now?
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
Ehh...not really, though? It was one option, yes...but there were also Challenge mode missions. For me, being able to reliably run Challenge modes was the end game. DZ didn't exist unless I was being dragged in there by the group I was with.
But how did you (or your group mates) get the gear required to do challenge mode?
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
Ehh...not really, though? It was one option, yes...but there were also Challenge mode missions. For me, being able to reliably run Challenge modes was the end game. DZ didn't exist unless I was being dragged in there by the group I was with.
But how did you (or your group mates) get the gear required to do challenge mode?
Crafted via phoenix credit blueprints (bird coins farmed by running hard modes) or scrounged together from running hard modes or buying direct from special equipment vendor.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
Ehh...not really, though? It was one option, yes...but there were also Challenge mode missions. For me, being able to reliably run Challenge modes was the end game. DZ didn't exist unless I was being dragged in there by the group I was with.
But how did you (or your group mates) get the gear required to do challenge mode?
Crafted via phoenix credit blueprints (bird coins farmed by running hard modes) or scrounged together from running hard modes or buying direct from special equipment vendor.
So... the scenic and nerfed route? Especially as time went on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
When was the last time we had a game with an open PVP area that allowed higher geared players to smash lower ones?
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
GTA Online
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
Ehh...not really, though? It was one option, yes...but there were also Challenge mode missions. For me, being able to reliably run Challenge modes was the end game. DZ didn't exist unless I was being dragged in there by the group I was with.
But how did you (or your group mates) get the gear required to do challenge mode?
Crafted via phoenix credit blueprints (bird coins farmed by running hard modes) or scrounged together from running hard modes or buying direct from special equipment vendor.
So... the scenic and nerfed route? Especially as time went on
Heh, it was still a route (and while it was nerfed into near-oblivion, it's been slowly buffed to where you can regularly get something like 35-40 bird coins per day just from hard-dungeon+solo HVT dailies). And as someone who detests PK-themed zones, I was glad there was an alternative.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Posts
I might give it another go
After spending six months playing it solo because the 60+ people I added to my previously non-existent Uplay friends list bailed on the game like panicky rats from a slightly listing ship I'm sort of super jaded though
Because god damn did this game end up sucking solo
But reading this thread now makes me think I should cancel it.
Is it worth $14?
Yes. $20 would have me reservedly saying "If you've got nothing else to drop $20 on, sure." Although, bear in mind the price is extremely volatile: last Thursday, Amazon marked the game down to $13.50...it seems the price changes on a daily basis.
it was the endgame systems that were botched.
they would have fared much better in public opinion toward the game. even the gap between launch and the first incursion hurt at lot.
Adding cut the rope amidst a sea of "people are stealing my stuff I hate PVP why do I have to do it" complaints also wasn't a great thing to do.
It's a shame, because 5 of my friends bought it at launch, and at least 2 of them seem to feel cheated out of the experience they'd hoped to have (though that's a larger issue with tangents of scheduling and max party sizes and whatnot).
Co-op is a big way to draw me into a game, but competitive aspects don't hold much appeal. ME3's multiplayer was a massive hit with my group for this reason; you still had jerks and the occasional idiot/troll, but the game didn't actively incentivize this behaviour.
Not that I'm saying that's specifically the case here, but it does feel like there's a somewhat at odds disparity in play, but again, that's mostly from hearing what my friends report on the matter and what I've read in here.
"Hell is other people", indeed.
When you can drop a full magazine of head/chest shots into someone and they don't even lose a tick on the HP bar there is something Fundamentally wrong with your game.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
This sort of happens in video games with loot though, right? If loot didn't matter then what's the point of playing it?
Yeah, playing through the whole thing at least once was a bunch of fun; better with people obviously but you should still have a good time.
I don't think I've actually played this game since a month or so after it launched; I imagine I'll have another look at some point down the line to see how things are, after 1.4.
FUCKIN' SOLD I'M BACK BOYS.
STEAM | XBL | PSN
Destiny normalizes its pvp content, but the PVP takes place in a defined environment.
Balanced PVP in RPGs and games with heavy RPG mechanics is a tricky thing to balance though.
Because the Division actually a pk system, there isn't any semblance of competitive balance. There isn't supposed to be one either. Expecting even teams and fair matches out of the PK in the Division is just setting yourself up for frustration.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
In the Division the Dark Zone was broken down by gear score thresholds. But you could put a god-tier gun on and tank your other gear by stuffing it on alts and wreck people. The range for gear score was also based off your entire inventory, so if you managed to get a high gear score item and it bumped your overall average up, you'd be fighting out of tier in the Dark Zone both against the AI and players.
Other games normalize your damage, movement speed and/or other perks to create a competitive environment. Damage caps are the most common thing, given while a level 30 mob may have 100000k HP to your 60k damage per shot, a player doesn't. This is also why charm effects in games where they don't scale the damage that the mobs deal render them ineffective, or have a damage bonus while charmed. Some games add in additional stats to explicitly mitigate player damage (like resilience in WoW), half the duration of effects, and/or add diminishing returns to player abilities used against players, among other stuff.
from reading an article on the division site, you choose the tier of enemies you want to fight, particularly in the open world. That tier will only drop certain levels of loot, so as you get better loot, you can advance the tiers and get better and better stuff.
Also, because there were tiers, you were quite often locked out of playing with at least half your friends.
Until you hit max level, it's a unique mix of open world gameplay and good shooting mechanics with environments that makes sense and don't look like they arbitrarily have chest high walls just to give you cover.
A lot of complaints (though by no means all) had been about how that aspect of the game was completely dropped at 30 in favor of instanced group content and attempts to force players into a pvp environment because people really missed the game they'd played until then.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
I'd say it is worth 14 bucks easy. New patch has really changed the post game. You dont need to go into the DZ if you dont want to. My problem with the game before 1.4 was the best PVE in the game was in the dark zone. Run around the land marks take out mobs, hit supply caches and air drops and fighting off waves of enemies as you extract supplies. I enjoyed it the most when you had others around but nobody was being a fuck and shooting you in the face. Just helping out and killing guys kinda co-op.
which just got completely changed in the latest patch (the end game stuff, that is), as they're making everything in the open-world scale to the different tiers of "gear score" and streamlining how the gear works overall.
World of Warcraft? -- But, you could choose to NOT play on an open PVP server and not be locked out of progression.
Diablo II? -- But, you could lock down your Bnet games so they weren't open to random PK players.
The thing about the division is there is no option for your progression past a certain point other than exposing yourself to a toxic environment.
I would have hoped we had moved forward a bit in those aspects of multiplayer games since the early 2000s.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
eehh not so much even before 1.4 you could avoid the DZ completely, though that meant running Incursions etc, emptying hundreds of bullets into a single mob at the highest difficulty. The DZ just had a a couple of gear sets that you could only get in the DZ. Due to the bullet sponge mobs you had to have specifically optimized gear sets with little deviation, which was no fun. You had to have X skills with X gear otherwise you would be one shotted by shotgunners on Challenging modes.
GTA Online
From the E3 demos, it seemed the streets would be full of obstacles, places to explore and lots of dangers. Something like The Last of Us, where you have to overcome lots of roadblocks of sorts and it all becomes a matter of survival. It made the idea of going deeper into the city be an actual expedition and that it would take literal days of play sessions to get there. This way you would effectively contain players to certain areas, and you would also make the DZ something like a shortcut to get from one side to the other, but it being a very dangerous and difficult route, so you'd choose a safer but longer route, or brave the DZ as fast as possible.
But instead, it's mostly empty streets, so you just run in a straight line to get where you want to, and then you get fast travel and all that disappears. The game is still a lot of fun, but I really wish we would have had survival elements, and clogged up streets that forced you to go into buildings to find another route. Hopefully something like this gets made in the future.
That has private lobbies though doesn't it?
Yup...it's an option, just like how going into the DZ is an option. Although, private lobbies are an opt-in option (if you just go to "Play Online" from the main menu, it'll dump you in a populated public lobby.
In The Division, some players take enough damage off cooldowns to be walking tanks.
yea there was a build that pretty much made you neigh unkillable, that along with the builds that would one shot other players with sticky bombs. They changed a ton so we will see if the players discover more cheese builds for those who do want to venture into the DZ.
For a long time the DZ wasn't an option it was the end game.
Ehh...not really, though? It was one option, yes...but there were also Challenge mode missions. For me, being able to reliably run Challenge modes was the end game. DZ didn't exist unless I was being dragged in there by the group I was with.
But how did you (or your group mates) get the gear required to do challenge mode?
Crafted via phoenix credit blueprints (bird coins farmed by running hard modes) or scrounged together from running hard modes or buying direct from special equipment vendor.
So... the scenic and nerfed route? Especially as time went on
Heh, it was still a route (and while it was nerfed into near-oblivion, it's been slowly buffed to where you can regularly get something like 35-40 bird coins per day just from hard-dungeon+solo HVT dailies). And as someone who detests PK-themed zones, I was glad there was an alternative.