Except Luke has had every opportunity to be just as big a dirtbag. And, with superpowers, he could've easily done so. But, as his appearance on Jessica Jones even showed, Luke generally actively chooses the higher ground.
There was a lot of work toward Luke accepting Great Responsibility here. He even accepts the truth of how horrible his father was. But the one thing he chooses not to accept responsibility for, and rightly so, is the actions and choices of another man whose sole legacy is destruction and violence.
Except Luke also had more opportunities to not be a dirtbag.
A rich person has the opportunity to turn to crime but since they're rich, they also have the resources to not turn to crime. Compare that to a poor person, who lacks those resources and are often faced with situations where they either have to turn to crime or starve, get beaten, maybe even die.
Yes, Luke can misuse his super powers but hey, they're super powers! They're a huge resource that can be used to earn money legitimately.
The series is pretty sympathetic to people who were screwed over by the system in general. But really what do you do with someone like Diamondback?
I mean really what could Luke have done? Apologise for being born?
Don't write Diamondback as an insane thug with no redeeming qualities. If they actually wanted to play the character seriously, then write him with some depth and nuance.
Ok then slot in someone like Fisk into the role. Similar kind of fucked up background but with depth, nuance and redeeming qualities.
Luke still wouldn't be responsible for him. Brother or not.
Considering the issue of high black incarceration rates and the "thug" image so often perpetuated by the media, is that the message that they want the show to be about? That it's not broken families, unfair treatment by society, unjust imprisonment, and a society that doesn't give second chances that turn people bad, it's actually a lack of "personal responsibility" or some kind of internal flaw that makes people bad.
If Diamondback isn't a caricature then they screwed up royally.
We learn that Willis Stryker is the illegitimate child of Luke/Carl's father and he was treated like crap because of it. He never had the love, respect, or even acknowledgement of his father. After he stole a car with Luke, he went to juvie while Luke's father used his influence to give Luke a second chance by letting him join the marines. Willis killed someone in self defense in juvie and was sent to do hard time in prison. All the while, his father abandoned his mother and she died penniless and alone. Willis became Diamondback because of the terrible circumstance of his life. And instead of addressing the issue of their disparate upbringings, what was the final message of the show? "Am I my brothers keeper, no I'm not."
That's kind of a terrible message. Luke, the son of a rich and powerful pastor, who had a life of privilege and was given a second chance, washing his hands of his half brother, who was born of the indiscretions of his father and became a criminal because of the terrible way he was treated by the system and his own father.
Luke repeatedly tried to do right by Diamondback, by telling him to calm down and be friends - despite when he showed up his actions would be ok to tell DB to fuck off. Every time DB insulted him, then tried to kill and frame him. You can't compromise with crazy, and DB is a certified super-villain.
Except Luke has had every opportunity to be just as big a dirtbag. And, with superpowers, he could've easily done so. But, as his appearance on Jessica Jones even showed, Luke generally actively chooses the higher ground.
There was a lot of work toward Luke accepting Great Responsibility here. He even accepts the truth of how horrible his father was. But the one thing he chooses not to accept responsibility for, and rightly so, is the actions and choices of another man whose sole legacy is destruction and violence.
Except Luke also had more opportunities to not be a dirtbag.
A rich person has the opportunity to turn to crime but since they're rich, they also have the resources to not turn to crime. Compare that to a poor person, who lacks those resources and are often faced with situations where they either have to turn to crime or starve, get beaten, maybe even die.
Yes, Luke can misuse his super powers but hey, they're super powers! They're a huge resource that can be used to earn money legitimately.
Luke was in the same situation as DB, when he went to Seagate. Even before he got super powers he refused to become what Diamondback was, and he had the guards and staff trying to extort, manipulate and hurt him.
Considering the issue of high black incarceration rates and the "thug" image so often perpetuated by the media, is that the message that they want the show to be about? That it's not broken families, unfair treatment by society, unjust imprisonment, and a society that doesn't give second chances that turn people bad, it's actually a lack of "personal responsibility" or some kind of internal flaw that makes people bad.
I haven't watched the whole show yet, but from what I've seen it's a message for the black community to get away from that into productive members of society, like every other demographic. Which is a good message to send. Ignoring the "thug" image would be the elephant in the room on the show for that. It's up front about it too - contrast Luke with Cottonmouth and
Diamondback.
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WarcryI'm getting my shit pushed in here!AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited October 2016
Crossposting from the Dr. Strange thread:
This was a good movie.
big spoilers below
The final act was really cool. The fighting in Hong Kong while the destroyed city was going back to normal in reverse was really creative. And the way he beat Dormammu...I was half expecting it to be a DBZ-style beam war, but making the Master of the Dark Dimension become essentially trapped by physical laws that weren't in his reality was pretty cool.
Also, was I the only one expecting Strange to attempt to use the Eye to reverse the damage to his hands?
A few of the jokes fell a bit flat for me, but it's still got some quite funny bits. Usually brick jokes.
I'd give it 7.5 or 8 out of 10.
Warcry on
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
The final act was really cool. The fighting in Hong Kong while the destroyed city was going back to normal in reverse was really creative. And the way he beat Dormammu...I was half expecting it to be a DBZ-style beam war, but making the Master of the Dark Dimension become essentially trapped by physical laws that weren't in his reality was pretty cool.
Also, was I the only one expecting Strange to attempt to use the Eye to reverse the damage to his hands?
A few of the jokes fell a bit flat for me, but it's still got some quite funny bits. Usually brick jokes.
I'd give it 7.5 or 8 out of 10.
Why? There's a dedicated thread and it's not even out in the US for the better part of a week. I don't know about others but I reflexively click spoiler tags in threads I'm not expecting spoilers in, so dropping them in this thread that has multiple discussions kind of sucks IMO.
Considering the issue of high black incarceration rates and the "thug" image so often perpetuated by the media, is that the message that they want the show to be about? That it's not broken families, unfair treatment by society, unjust imprisonment, and a society that doesn't give second chances that turn people bad, it's actually a lack of "personal responsibility" or some kind of internal flaw that makes people bad.
Okay, but they actually addressed every single one of those issues in the show already. Almost entirely before Diamondback even shows up.
ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
Yeah hey, NO DOCTOR STRANGE SPOILERS OF ANY SORT IN HERE, there's a whole GST for that stuff.
People who want a place to say "oh damn I am so hype" or whatever are welcome, so they don't have to go to a thread that could wreck things for them. But no spoilers at all, please.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
But Cottonmouth had a reason to be the bad guy. He was raised to be that, even though he didn't want to be at first. We saw what made him the villain and he was interesting as this guy who was already losing his power but still trying to keep it. Diamondback, however, was hyped up as this genius criminal kingpin to be feared and we never saw that at all. Just some little boy with daddy issues.
I think it has something to do with the whole gang. Like everyone just decided to use Snakes as code-names. There is probably Cobra, Rattlesnake, and Garden floating around somewhere.
His Hammer-tech suit had a diamond on its back for the last fight. Otherwise, it was just a reference to the Vipers, the gang these guys were in with Luke in the comics.
I think more thought is being applied to the characters by posters here than the writers bothered with.
Otherwise the characters wouldn't have all been so terrible. Diamondback is the peak of that.
I highly doubt that. The writers left clues in the show (Such as the book in Cage's room and the discussion about novels in the barber shop), and multiple people have come up with similar conclusions about the character other than "I don't get it".
I think it has something to do with the whole gang. Like everyone just decided to use Snakes as code-names. There is probably Cobra, Rattlesnake, and Garden floating around somewhere.
Down somewhere I'm sure there are Drain, Solid, and Trouser.
I think it has something to do with the whole gang. Like everyone just decided to use Snakes as code-names. There is probably Cobra, Rattlesnake, and Garden floating around somewhere.
Down somewhere I'm sure there are Drain, Solid, and Trouser.
your name is trousersnake. couldn't i be doctor mckillshot? no, trouser snake it is!
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
2 eps left of Luke Cage now.
I def like it better than Daredevil on the merit of actually liking Cage vs hating Matt.
Although the handling of Misty was straight up bad and stupid.
Don't make a character who is supposed to excel at seeing things others don't and solving crimes only to have her ignore blatant evidence for shaky evidence. That was just nonsensical there. They even had her say that Luke had an alibi. AND THEN THE CRAZY DUDE ATTACKED THE PLACE STRENGTHENING THAT ALIBI THAT SHE WAS ALREADY GOING TO BELIEVE. And then she was ready to do a 180 because they found a glove in a trash can? Like... even a normal detective wouldn't be swayed that easily let alone a supposed super talented sees the truth character. Really have no idea what they were trying to do with that but it completely ruined her character for me.
I think it has something to do with the whole gang. Like everyone just decided to use Snakes as code-names. There is probably Cobra, Rattlesnake, and Garden floating around somewhere.
Down somewhere I'm sure there are Drain, Solid, and Trouser.
your name is trousersnake. couldn't i be doctor mckillshot? no, trouser snake it is!
ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
With one ep to go, I think I liked Jessica Jones Cage a lot better than Luke Cage Cage.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Luke Cage had the best atmosphere and setting, but the worst plot.
+3
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
The one issue I've had with every Netflix series (and I've enjoyed them all, even Cage) is that they start out exploring some really interesting themes, and then midway through they abandon them in favor of generic superhero antics.
They came back around again in Jessica Jones, and mostly so in DD1, but DD2 and (it looks like) Cage they never quite recover.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The one issue I've had with every Netflix series (and I've enjoyed them all, even Cage) is that they start out exploring some really interesting themes, and then midway through they abandon them in favor of generic superhero antics.
They came back around again in Jessica Jones, and mostly so in DD1, but DD2 and (it looks like) Cage they never quite recover.
DD1 is pretty much solid throughout, it has a strong hero and a strong villain with a lot of strong side characters like Nobu. DD2 went downhill once Punisher was out though. And even when he was back it was crap because it was too busy setting up his series.
I'm not a fan, and they've grown to consume both sides of an entire multi-shelving unit section of a local comic shop with no end in sight. I'm scared.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
+3
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Well, he did some sloppy boxing in the final fight
I imagine, if he's fighting undead ninja or other definitely-not-redeemable-people enemies, he's just gonna start kick-punching tits right off of people
+1
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
I finally finished Luke Cage.
That final fight was fucking awful. The rest of the episode was fine, and I liked how a lot of it ended up, but Christ.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
+7
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Well hot damn Marvel.
Dr Strange has made $122 million overseas its first week.
Posts
Ok then slot in someone like Fisk into the role. Similar kind of fucked up background but with depth, nuance and redeeming qualities.
Luke still wouldn't be responsible for him. Brother or not.
Yeah, Diamonback was a bad guy. They happen.
I haven't watched the whole show yet, but from what I've seen it's a message for the black community to get away from that into productive members of society, like every other demographic. Which is a good message to send. Ignoring the "thug" image would be the elephant in the room on the show for that. It's up front about it too - contrast Luke with Cottonmouth and
This was a good movie.
big spoilers below
Also, was I the only one expecting Strange to attempt to use the Eye to reverse the damage to his hands?
A few of the jokes fell a bit flat for me, but it's still got some quite funny bits. Usually brick jokes.
I'd give it 7.5 or 8 out of 10.
Why? There's a dedicated thread and it's not even out in the US for the better part of a week. I don't know about others but I reflexively click spoiler tags in threads I'm not expecting spoilers in, so dropping them in this thread that has multiple discussions kind of sucks IMO.
Okay, but they actually addressed every single one of those issues in the show already. Almost entirely before Diamondback even shows up.
Otherwise the characters wouldn't have all been so terrible. Diamondback is the peak of that.
People who want a place to say "oh damn I am so hype" or whatever are welcome, so they don't have to go to a thread that could wreck things for them. But no spoilers at all, please.
But Cottonmouth had a reason to be the bad guy. He was raised to be that, even though he didn't want to be at first. We saw what made him the villain and he was interesting as this guy who was already losing his power but still trying to keep it. Diamondback, however, was hyped up as this genius criminal kingpin to be feared and we never saw that at all. Just some little boy with daddy issues.
Or much like Shades did he just wear a jacket with a diamond on the back one day?
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I highly doubt that. The writers left clues in the show (Such as the book in Cage's room and the discussion about novels in the barber shop), and multiple people have come up with similar conclusions about the character other than "I don't get it".
This is probably the only MCU product with a reading list.
Down somewhere I'm sure there are Drain, Solid, and Trouser.
your name is trousersnake. couldn't i be doctor mckillshot? no, trouser snake it is!
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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I def like it better than Daredevil on the merit of actually liking Cage vs hating Matt.
Although the handling of Misty was straight up bad and stupid.
It's Fumbles. It was always Fumbles.
http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/781819-jessica-jones-meets-misty-knight-in-first-defenders-set-photos#/slide/1
A Luke Cage character? Already off on a bad foot.
They came back around again in Jessica Jones, and mostly so in DD1, but DD2 and (it looks like) Cage they never quite recover.
Shirt!
Mug
Figure
and also had the newer #1 of Sorcerer Supreme with a variant cover, and the usual pins/badges/fluff
DD1 is pretty much solid throughout, it has a strong hero and a strong villain with a lot of strong side characters like Nobu. DD2 went downhill once Punisher was out though. And even when he was back it was crap because it was too busy setting up his series.
I just hope they get Luke to do more than
I'm sure he will also
I imagine, if he's fighting undead ninja or other definitely-not-redeemable-people enemies, he's just gonna start kick-punching tits right off of people
That final fight was fucking awful. The rest of the episode was fine, and I liked how a lot of it ended up, but Christ.
Dr Strange has made $122 million overseas its first week.
It hasn't even opened in America or China yet.
Which is a huge compliment.