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[Pokémon] the SUN and MOON will collide 11/18

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    VahraanVahraan Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Are there any other competitive resources aside from smogon? Was trying to read up on double battles but I haven't found much regarding the alolan introductions. Most center around trick room, a few megas, and some weather stuff.

    I think I understand where some of this stuff is going, and I can accept the Pokemon i want to use may be lower tier, just not quite sure even how to make them work let alone coherently. For example I have my IV/EV and move ready salazzle or sandslash. The latter would seem to lend itself toward a hail based team (if I had the HA that is), but not really sure where else to take things.

    I made a list of alola Dex Pokemon that I was interested in and ended up with
    Salazzle
    Golisopod
    Sandslash
    Dragonite
    Bewear
    Passimian
    Turtonator
    Kommo-o
    Rockford
    Mimikyu
    Gengar
    Muk
    Marowak

    Not a huge list and as mentioned I'm not really sure (since I have zero experience) what I should even be looking for in a team for this format.

    Resources for doubles aren't as well organized as smogon, at least in my experience. There seem to be a fair few players at any given time, and a community of youtubers who at least used to play. Might pick up?

    Some quick tips for team building (these are generic and not gospel or anything, but good things to keep in mind):

    -Have some means of speed control available. Be it Trick Room, Swift Swim/Slush Rush/etc, Tailwind or Icy Wind. Or just a few really fast/priority abusing mons (Golisopod can pack 3 or 4 priority moves to this end). Better if your speed control overwrites someone else's (eg: You're running A-Ninetales and A-Sandslash with their hidden abilities. If you can make your Ninetales slower than their Drizzle mon, you're weather goes off second and overwrites the rain, taking away their speed control. I've also seen trick room teams waiting each other out, trying to get the other to set the trick room as whoever didn't set it gets turn advantage).

    -How will your team respond to the big threats du jour? Any of the Tapus but especially Koko, Celesteela, Pheromosa, etc. You need a way to switch in on the threat and take it out as these are the kinds of things that just end up sweeping your whole team. Here I don't have much in the way of specifics as this is the toughest nut to crack. (Not just the threats I listed, another example is a Oranguru + Torkoal firing off two full strength Eruptions a turn under trick room).

    -Finally, and one you may have seen in Doubles discussion already, you'll want protect on most of your guys. It reduces your options but you need to be able to predict the incoming double attack and use that to give your partner pokemon a free hit/set up. There are exceptions, notably if you plan on running Assault Vest or any of the Choice items.

    This is obviously just a few things, and pretty basic but hopefully it helps!

    edit; A good youtuber to check out, as he talks about his choices a lot and has put out a few vids for SuMo already is Cybertron.

    Here's his video on team building, he talks about selecting a core of pokemon and building from there which seems like a reasonable methodology, especially if you have a few pokes you really want to use.

    Vahraan on
    PSN: Gumbotron88 3DS FC: 0018-3695-0013 (Devon)
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    I do not see how you can make that comparison. Magic has dozens of different decks with wildly different strategies competing at the top. It's only similar in that casually constructed teams built in a vacuum don't stand a chance against plans that have hundreds of thousands of combined hours of game play testing and have been refined through experience against countless matches against the best opposition opponents can throw at it.

    When thought isn't given to balancing play, pokemon can quickly devolve to the point where only one strategy is viable at the top (see "CHALK").

    General_Armchair on
    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
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    WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Thanks @Vahraan going to dig a little deeper into all that later today
    dav3yb wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    I don't think there is a big doubles community like there is for singles. Nugget bridge forums only have a couple people saying anything, and /r/stunfisk doesn't have much going on either. You may be able to find some youtube videos but even then it would probably be hard to sift out all the videos of people just reposting the trailers. It's a shame because doubles is pretty much way more balanced and far more pokemon are usually viable, aside from the primal year. Personally I think tapu koko is going to be a little meta warping this year, but it can be ohko'd if something actually gets to hit it.

    Is this assuming legendaries/mythical/whatever's are banned? I ask because the championship teams seem very same-y to me as an outsider.

    seems a lot like magic the gathering to me. a handful of people figure stuff out, then everyone just copies it. They probably all just hack those pokes into their game too, letting them put in zero effort for a highly competitive team. kinda lame if you ask me.

    I don't really have a problem with netdecking or whatever the Pokemon equivalent phrase is. At the end of the day there are cards/items/strategies/Pokemon that are better than others within certain contexts.
    I do not see how you can make that comparison. Magic has dozens of different decks with wildly different strategies competing at the top. It's only similar in that casually constructed teams built in a vacuum don't stand a chance against plans that have hundreds of thousands of combined hours of game play testing and have been refined through experience against countless matches against the best opposition opponents can throw at it.

    When thought isn't given to balancing play, pokemon can quickly devolve to the point where only one strategy is viable at the top (see "CHALK").

    It has been a long time since I played magic, but dozens or even half a dozen decks meant an unsettled meta or a transitioning one. Even without going so far as to generalize into the broad categories of aggro/control/combo, it is relatively easy to lump a lot of seemingly different builds together. Many linear builds require vastly different answers but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are using a different strategy. By that I mean they are still "combo by turn 3/4". Similarly a slightly faster or slower aggro deck isn't really an entirely new strategy. They are still aggro.

    Coming in blind to competitive Pokemon i was expecting 3-5 teams that may have 1 or 2 flex positions for meta adjustments with most of their team members locked down. That isn't bad if it is true, the part that I was lamenting was really that every single team seems to carry mega kangaskahn, bronzong, and then some of the pseudo-legendaries. I think my issue is with the latter since I'm not attached to any of them. Those legendary/mythic Pokemon aren't nearly as interesting to me as the "regular" ones.

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    ZundeZunde Registered User regular
    When a random swimmer tells you not to ask questions about where he pulled the money you got for beating him from.

    Is the moment you wish you had picked up some hand sanitizer during your last visit to the pokemon center.

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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    Why is shiny Mimikyu not the same color as shiny Pikachu?

    Pre-order cancelled

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    VahraanVahraan Registered User regular
    Breeding stock 4-IV Dittos get!

    Does anyone have a pair that covers all stats they'd like to trade? Egg generation goes faster with different trainer IDs so I'd like to swap with someone if possible. One of them is shiny if that incentivizes anyone!

    PSN: Gumbotron88 3DS FC: 0018-3695-0013 (Devon)
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Vahraan wrote: »
    Breeding stock 4-IV Dittos get!

    Does anyone have a pair that covers all stats they'd like to trade? Egg generation goes faster with different trainer IDs so I'd like to swap with someone if possible. One of them is shiny if that incentivizes anyone!

    @WingedWeasel was asking if anyone wanted to swap the other day, and he's newer to the whole process so he's probably got more to gain from it.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Gad, I hate using water-types this gen. They always need to be blowdried after each battle.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Can anyone tell me why Smogon is recommending Naive/Naughty/Rash natures for Pheromosa?

    Special defense is just so low that it might as well be lowered even further, so you've still got decent attack/special attack for options on both fronts?

    First time I remember seeing nature recommendations like that.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Can anyone tell me why Smogon is recommending Naive/Naughty/Rash natures for Pheromosa?

    Special defense is just so low that it might as well be lowered even further, so you've still got decent attack/special attack for options on both fronts?

    First time I remember seeing nature recommendations like that.

    Defense lowering Natures are occasionally chosen for mixed sweepers like Pheremosa, the idea being that yeah if you get hit you're fucked anyway

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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Ok, so there's Poke Pelago but is there also a "continuous run" place where I can go to hatch eggs? I know the "run into the ranch building over and over" trick, but I like the continuous loops better.

    WT gifted me with a female Rowlet, so I'm starting to breed a box of 'em for Christmas day wonder trading.

    Oh, another question: I've been feeding my Munchlax at the festival plaza friendship booth, and he seems maxed out (they won't serve him any more). So I used a rare candy, and he didn't evolve. Does he have to level up in the field?

    akjak on
    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    pheremosa is probably the best example of a pokemon that is insane in singles but dies to a stiff breeze in doubles, actually literally since x4 flying weakness lol.

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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    Ok, so there's Poke Pelago but is there also a "continuous run" place where I can go to hatch eggs? I know the "run into the ranch building over and over" trick, but I like the continuous loops better.

    WT gifted me with a female Rowlet, so I'm starting to breed a box of 'em for Christmas day wonder trading.

    Oh, another question: I've been feeding my Munchlax at the festival plaza friendship booth, and he seems maxed out (they won't serve him any more). So I used a rare candy, and he didn't evolve. Does he have to level up in the field?

    I don't think a continuous run has been discovered, but I will say that running into the building isn't as good as simply going into the fenced area just below full of hay, which has just enough room to summon a pokemon and completely boxes you in, so you can just spin the circle pad.

    Are you sure the friendship booth place is for friendship and not affection (Pokemon Refresh)? And are you sure it doesn't cap out at 100 or similar, like from feeding vitamins?

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    akjak wrote: »
    Ok, so there's Poke Pelago but is there also a "continuous run" place where I can go to hatch eggs? I know the "run into the ranch building over and over" trick, but I like the continuous loops better.

    WT gifted me with a female Rowlet, so I'm starting to breed a box of 'em for Christmas day wonder trading.

    Oh, another question: I've been feeding my Munchlax at the festival plaza friendship booth, and he seems maxed out (they won't serve him any more). So I used a rare candy, and he didn't evolve. Does he have to level up in the field?

    I don't think a continuous run has been discovered, but I will say that running into the building isn't as good as simply going into the fenced area just below full of hay, which has just enough room to summon a pokemon and completely boxes you in, so you can just spin the circle pad.

    Are you sure the friendship booth place is for friendship and not affection (Pokemon Refresh)? And are you sure it doesn't cap out at 100 or similar, like from feeding vitamins?

    Yes this is the best place I think. You can just spin the analog stick in a circle and not break the tauros charge.

    I do still miss the Lumiose circuit where you could stick a dime under the analog nub and the eggs would hatch themselves :P I guess the hot springs are basically this tho.

    Warlock82 on
    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    Ok, so there's Poke Pelago but is there also a "continuous run" place where I can go to hatch eggs? I know the "run into the ranch building over and over" trick, but I like the continuous loops better.

    WT gifted me with a female Rowlet, so I'm starting to breed a box of 'em for Christmas day wonder trading.

    Oh, another question: I've been feeding my Munchlax at the festival plaza friendship booth, and he seems maxed out (they won't serve him any more). So I used a rare candy, and he didn't evolve. Does he have to level up in the field?

    I don't think a continuous run has been discovered, but I will say that running into the building isn't as good as simply going into the fenced area just below full of hay, which has just enough room to summon a pokemon and completely boxes you in, so you can just spin the circle pad.

    Are you sure the friendship booth place is for friendship and not affection (Pokemon Refresh)? And are you sure it doesn't cap out at 100 or similar, like from feeding vitamins?

    I'm sure it's friendship, but I'm not sure about the cap. Maybe since it's a 2-star facility it won't cap?

    I've got him in the hot springs with a soothe bell now too.

    Where's the checker?

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    QuantumShaddowQuantumShaddow Registered User regular
    Can anyone tell me why Smogon is recommending Naive/Naughty/Rash natures for Pheromosa?

    Special defense is just so low that it might as well be lowered even further, so you've still got decent attack/special attack for options on both fronts?

    First time I remember seeing nature recommendations like that.

    I have a Modest one which has been working well so far.

    3DS FC: 4441-8382-3645
    Switch: SW-7634-0399-6788

    QGqFhNv.png
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    akjak wrote: »
    Where's the checker?

    The one town that looks like a Japanese marketplace...behind the back camera looking down the lane, on the left is the person who gives back rubs once a day that you should take advantage of, and just above that is the person who can check.

    EDIT: Konikoni City

    UncleSporky on
    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Can anyone tell me why Smogon is recommending Naive/Naughty/Rash natures for Pheromosa?

    Special defense is just so low that it might as well be lowered even further, so you've still got decent attack/special attack for options on both fronts?

    First time I remember seeing nature recommendations like that.

    I lucked out and got a naive and a naughty so after hyper training theyll be set

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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    homogenizedhomogenized Registered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    akjak wrote: »
    Ok, so there's Poke Pelago but is there also a "continuous run" place where I can go to hatch eggs? I know the "run into the ranch building over and over" trick, but I like the continuous loops better.

    WT gifted me with a female Rowlet, so I'm starting to breed a box of 'em for Christmas day wonder trading.

    Oh, another question: I've been feeding my Munchlax at the festival plaza friendship booth, and he seems maxed out (they won't serve him any more). So I used a rare candy, and he didn't evolve. Does he have to level up in the field?

    I don't think a continuous run has been discovered, but I will say that running into the building isn't as good as simply going into the fenced area just below full of hay, which has just enough room to summon a pokemon and completely boxes you in, so you can just spin the circle pad.

    Are you sure the friendship booth place is for friendship and not affection (Pokemon Refresh)? And are you sure it doesn't cap out at 100 or similar, like from feeding vitamins?

    Yes this is the best place I think. You can just spin the analog stick in a circle and not break the tauros charge.

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Personally i like to just go down a screen and run up and down along the road rather than have to spaz my thumb to prevent the tauros from stopping the charge.

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Personally i like to just go down a screen and run up and down along the road rather than have to spaz my thumb to prevent the tauros from stopping the charge.
    I run up and down the full length of the nursery screen until I have my next five eggs in the PC and then go down to the longer screen for the rest of the hatching.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Personally i like to just go down a screen and run up and down along the road rather than have to spaz my thumb to prevent the tauros from stopping the charge.
    I run up and down the full length of the nursery screen until I have my next five eggs in the PC and then go down to the longer screen for the rest of the hatching.

    That screen is way too short, and I keep hitting a loading screen by accident. I'm totally spoiled by Lumiose tower, and the battle resort loop in ORAS.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Personally i like to just go down a screen and run up and down along the road rather than have to spaz my thumb to prevent the tauros from stopping the charge.
    I run up and down the full length of the nursery screen until I have my next five eggs in the PC and then go down to the longer screen for the rest of the hatching.

    that's exactly what I do. it seems like starting at the lady, running all the way up, then all the way down and back to the lady is about one "cycle" for the game to check if there is another egg, so it just works out that almost every time you go back and forth you pick up another egg, so long as you arent using 2 different species pokemon with your trainer number.

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    KizmittKizmitt Registered User regular
    I like to run up and down bus rd mountain. A little more steering required but more scenic

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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Also, anyone has a "reject" ditto they're willing to part with? I don't have any yet, but I'd like to do some other breeding. I'll have a 6iv one when bank opens, so I don't need anything special.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    TDawgTDawg Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    akjak wrote: »
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Personally i like to just go down a screen and run up and down along the road rather than have to spaz my thumb to prevent the tauros from stopping the charge.
    I run up and down the full length of the nursery screen until I have my next five eggs in the PC and then go down to the longer screen for the rest of the hatching.

    That screen is way too short, and I keep hitting a loading screen by accident. I'm totally spoiled by Lumiose tower, and the battle resort loop in ORAS.

    Seriously, these things are proof that GameFreak knows the community considers them valuable...so why get rid of them? What the heck is their problem?

    grumble grumble grumble

    edit: can you walk in circles in Festival Plaza to hatch eggs? is that a thing? I am slow at playing games so I am not breeding yet so don't feel up to checking it out.

    TDawg on
    NNID: ohnoTom || 3DS: 1762-3198-2019 || Steam || Take My Good Pokemon
    Let's Plays of Japanese Games
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    I think that spinning works so well because I suspect that the game still has a movement grid for counting steps for egg hatching, and the spinning lets us continuously cut corners by tightly circling the intersection of several squares so that we progress from square to square faster than we would in a straight line.

    3DS Friend Code:
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    ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    So I guess my team now is looking like

    Decidueye
    Golisopod
    Alola Golem
    Alola Ninetales
    Salazzle
    Snorlax

    Snorlax might get switched for the Komo'oo or whatever line. havent decided

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    TDawgTDawg Registered User regular
    I just really wish Salazzle weren't a thing. This is the first time a "sexy" Pokemon has been so aggressively "sexy" that it has made me feel so totally uncomfortable.

    Salandit is so cool, too.

    NNID: ohnoTom || 3DS: 1762-3198-2019 || Steam || Take My Good Pokemon
    Let's Plays of Japanese Games
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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    TDawg wrote: »
    akjak wrote: »
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Personally i like to just go down a screen and run up and down along the road rather than have to spaz my thumb to prevent the tauros from stopping the charge.
    I run up and down the full length of the nursery screen until I have my next five eggs in the PC and then go down to the longer screen for the rest of the hatching.

    That screen is way too short, and I keep hitting a loading screen by accident. I'm totally spoiled by Lumiose tower, and the battle resort loop in ORAS.

    Seriously, these things are proof that GameFreak knows the community considers them valuable...so why get rid of them? What the heck is their problem?

    grumble grumble grumble

    edit: can you walk in circles in Festival Plaza to hatch eggs? is that a thing? I am slow at playing games so I am not breeding yet so don't feel up to checking it out.

    Right? Ohai, sending eggs to the box: GREAT. IV checking in the box: AWESOME. Passive hatching in teh Pelago: YES PLEASE. Continuous riding loop: NOPE LOL.

    /facepalm

    I doubt plaza will be a thing... You can't even get into your party or box there. It's some weird netherspace, I'm sure.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Haha. The hackers have started extracting all the NPC/pokemon models and are mixing up their animations.

    http://imgur.com/a/4jsxM

    https://imgur.com/a/SO8oi

    https://imgur.com/a/z6fju

    edit:
    also Ninetales is too cute.

    14yosorlh8jx.jpg

    General_Armchair on
    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    Gad, I hate using water-types this gen. They always need to be blowdried after each battle.

    They don't need to be. Once they've hit 5 hearts just leave them wet as affection never goes down. And seeing as affection can be maxed instantly by just forcing three rainbow beans down them, the whole Poke Refresh thing becomes pretty pointless once you open Poke Pelago.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular


    Nearly 3 times the amount that X & Y sold in that time frame.

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    I reckon that's big props to the PoGo effect, combined with reviews praising the game for finally streamlining some of the series sacred cows (HMs etc).

    That certainly pulled me back in anyway.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    Gad, I hate using water-types this gen. They always need to be blowdried after each battle.

    They don't need to be. Once they've hit 5 hearts just leave them wet as affection never goes down. And seeing as affection can be maxed instantly by just forcing three rainbow beans down them, the whole Poke Refresh thing becomes pretty pointless once you open Poke Pelago.

    How do you scroll the bean list in refresh? It wont let me.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    Gad, I hate using water-types this gen. They always need to be blowdried after each battle.

    They don't need to be. Once they've hit 5 hearts just leave them wet as affection never goes down. And seeing as affection can be maxed instantly by just forcing three rainbow beans down them, the whole Poke Refresh thing becomes pretty pointless once you open Poke Pelago.

    How do you scroll the bean list in refresh? It wont let me.

    Just pull them over with the stylus? I didn't really think about it so it must have been pretty intuitive.

    I have my 3DS in my pocket so I'll do a quick experiment...

    Yup, looks like you just need to pull it over to the side. The difference between picking up a bean and scrolling seems to be how quickly you start moving after touching the screen.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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    NoxyNoxy Registered User regular
    Got the IV judge feature and immediately checked all the Pokémon I had captured.

    I have a lvl 24 Komala with near perfect IVs.

    Wut.

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    dav3ybdav3yb Registered User regular
    So do the pokes that people just give you have some things fixed about them? I'm at the part where i get a free aerodatyl, and was resetting for nature. Noticed it seems to always have pressure for its ability. Is there any chance to get a hidden nature at all from these in game gives?

    PSN: daveyb1337 || XBL: dav3yb360 || Steam: dav3yb || Switch: SW-5274-1897-8495 || 3DS FC: 2079-7419-8843
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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    dav3yb wrote: »
    So do the pokes that people just give you have some things fixed about them? I'm at the part where i get a free aerodatyl, and was resetting for nature. Noticed it seems to always have pressure for its ability. Is there any chance to get a hidden nature at all from these in game gives?

    http://serebii.net/sunmoon/ingametrades.shtml

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    dav3ybdav3yb Registered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    dav3yb wrote: »
    So do the pokes that people just give you have some things fixed about them? I'm at the part where i get a free aerodatyl, and was resetting for nature. Noticed it seems to always have pressure for its ability. Is there any chance to get a hidden nature at all from these in game gives?

    http://serebii.net/sunmoon/ingametrades.shtml

    Didn't know that was a page, but it doesn't help me either sadly. The aerodactyl you get isn't part of a trade, it's just handed to you. I know the nature can shift, but mainly wondering about abilities.

    PSN: daveyb1337 || XBL: dav3yb360 || Steam: dav3yb || Switch: SW-5274-1897-8495 || 3DS FC: 2079-7419-8843
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