So I finished this and, I don't understand why the were so reluctant to dive in to the whole iron Fist stuff.
Like the entire season is based on 2 things that get revealed past the initial 4 episodes.
1)Danny defeated the dragon prior to the gateway opening, soon as he saw it he ran! So in he never fully trained as the iron fist.
2) the little he does know how to do is shit because he doesn't know how to control his fucking emotions apparently so he can't properly channel his chi.
Apparently the best we are going to get in regard to the iron fist we were expecting is
1945 Iron Fist! How about we get that mother fucker to be on the show! HE EVEN HAS THE MASK!!!
fuck you I pay my subscription I'll watch what I want
+7
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I'm on episode 8, and this is just getting tedious at this point.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I knew that this show would be bad at dealing with its problematic source material
But I never imagined it would be so utterly incompetent at everything else
It's a show about a guy with unbreakable hands called Iron Fist! How do you not make that at least entertaining to watch?
I mean shit I would have accepted Arrow-level quality!
The thing I love about that scene is that Matt isn't playing possum, he's just getting his ass kicked. The sad thing is that Kingpin is a much more compelling character and he isn't going to get to win.
It'll be a fucking crime if Vincent D'Onofrio is never put in a Spider-Man film.
I was thinking about that recently. Unfortunately I don't think he's been set up as someone that can go toe to toe with Spidey. The power gap is just too great.
The thing I love about that scene is that Matt isn't playing possum, he's just getting his ass kicked.
Disagree.
I mean I'm not saying Kingpin isn't a formidable opponent, but Matt isn't fighting back at all in that scene. It would absolutely blow his cover for a blind guy to start busting out the Kung Fu.
RT800 on
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masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
Both are kind of true
Matt is thrown off in that scene in pretty much every way you can think of, i don't think he'd win any kind of fight in that moment even if he was trying
+3
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
Most of the positive tweets I'm seeing thus far fall into one or more of these categories:
1. Is an Iron Fist or MCU superfan.
2. "But the character is white."
3. Has an alt-right related name and/or avatar.
4. "No, YOU'RE the real racists."
5. Using the show as a platform to make fun of and insult SJWs.
I'd say most of them are white, but that wouldn't be quite fair.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
I really like this show.
+5
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I find it fascinating that here and D&D could have such opposing opinions
+3
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The thing I love about that scene is that Matt isn't playing possum, he's just getting his ass kicked.
Disagree.
I mean I'm not saying Kingpin isn't a formidable opponent, but Matt isn't fighting back at all in that scene. It would absolutely blow his cover for a blind guy to start busting out the Kung Fu.
Matt did fight back.
"Ah, yes, son of a boxer!"
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Not having Kingpin in a Spider-Man movie would mean we never get to see Spider-Man make a bunch of fat jokes while dodging a bunch of super dopey, hamfisted attacks, and that makes me sad.
I'm three episodes down and I think I can put my finger on what is turning so many people off on this.
Every previous Netflix series has started in media res. It's presented the title hero already operating, shows us their powers, introduces their motivations to us. It's only a few episodes later down the line that we learn more about their origins, what brought them to the here-and-now, what is the darkness that is the driving force underneath their good actions.
Iron Fist is not structured at all like this. It's set up like it's a normal weekly-airing serial, starting us off with a hero we know nothing about that we gradually learn about and raising the stakes as the episodes go on - except that it's also trying to be a Netflix series that doesn't deliver steady progression of plot in episode-length formats. It's trying to be all mysterious about Danny's past but they keep reusing the same damn flashback over and over again - it's not more illuminating the fifth time we see it, it's just ridiculous. Any intention of drama is sucked out of it.
And let's talk motivation. As I said, I'm three episodes in and Danny is still basically a cipher to me. His statements about what he "wants" are obtuse, to the point of frustration. He says what he wants, but we have no understanding of the why he wants it, no grasp of the deeper motivations driving him. We have no strong character traits for him other than "knows martial arts and Eastern philosophy" which isn't very deep characterization. He displays a frustration could be borne from any number of things, but there's nothing concrete enough to give us.
If his background is so gosh-darn important, but they want to withhold the flashback episode on us until later, then they need to give us more of a connection between his past and the present. Flashbacks to monks hovering over young Danny doesn't tie into the now the way that Matt Murdock's remembrance of his father's defiant last fight did, the way that Jessica Jones' memories of Kilgrave did, the way that Luke Cage's constant looking over his shoulder worrying about his time at Seagate did.
Maybe this show is going to come together soon (it certainly started to improve in the third episode) but it really doesn't feel like it's going to be as great a series as the previous Netflix ones. I think the blame should be placed on the shoulders of the showrunner more than the cast - the actors seem to be doing fine with what they're being given, it's just that they aren't being given all that much. Special exception goes out to Ward Meachum, who is a bad 1%er pastiche.
Oh yeah, and the opening credits are just embarrassing. The animation doesn't convey to me anything about the character or tone of the show the way previous Marvel Netflix openings did, and the "theme" feels like it came out of a demo reel.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The thing I love about that scene is that Matt isn't playing possum, he's just getting his ass kicked.
Disagree.
I mean I'm not saying Kingpin isn't a formidable opponent, but Matt isn't fighting back at all in that scene. It would absolutely blow his cover for a blind guy to start busting out the Kung Fu.
Matt did fight back.
"Ah, yes, son of a boxer!"
That's not really fighting back. It's a token gesture. Even a blind man can take a swing at the guy grabbing his coat, and Matt has got a temper.
But do you really think the best Daredevil can do, after all the shit he's been through, is to take one shot and then just squirm while Kingpin yells at him?
He was absolutely taken by surprise by the initial assault. That I believe. Had Kingpin truly meant to kill him, who knows how it would've ended? But Kingpin didn't intend to kill him and he knew that, so instead he focused on preserving his cover.
Having your head smashed against a table three times is one of those "you're done" things.
+9
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The thing I love about that scene is that Matt isn't playing possum, he's just getting his ass kicked.
Disagree.
I mean I'm not saying Kingpin isn't a formidable opponent, but Matt isn't fighting back at all in that scene. It would absolutely blow his cover for a blind guy to start busting out the Kung Fu.
Matt did fight back.
"Ah, yes, son of a boxer!"
That's not really fighting back. It's a token gesture. Even a blind man can take a swing at the guy grabbing his coat.
But do you really think the best Daredevil can do, after all the shit he's been through, is to take one shot and then just squirm while Kingpin yells at him?
He was absolutely taken by surprise by the initial assault. That I believe. Had Kingpin truly meant to kill him, who knows how it would've ended? But Kingpin didn't intend to kill him and he knew that, so instead he focused on preserving his cover.
I mean, it was a pretty damn good counter and made Fisk think twice about Murdock's abilities. I think you overestimate what a person can do once they've been grappled by a much bigger man.
I'm three episodes down and I think I can put my finger on what is turning so many people off on this.
Every previous Netflix series has started in media res. It's presented the title hero already operating, shows us their powers, introduces their motivations to us. It's only a few episodes later down the line that we learn more about their origins, what brought them to the here-and-now, what is the darkness that is the driving force underneath their good actions.
Iron Fist is not structured at all like this. It's set up like it's a normal weekly-airing serial, starting us off with a hero we know nothing about that we gradually learn about and raising the stakes as the episodes go on - except that it's also trying to be a Netflix series that doesn't deliver steady progression of plot in episode-length formats. It's trying to be all mysterious about Danny's past but they keep reusing the same damn flashback over and over again - it's not more illuminating the fifth time we see it, it's just ridiculous. Any intention of drama is sucked out of it.
And let's talk motivation. As I said, I'm three episodes in and Danny is still basically a cipher to me. His statements about what he "wants" are obtuse, to the point of frustration. He says what he wants, but we have no understanding of the why he wants it, no grasp of the deeper motivations driving him. We have no strong character traits for him other than "knows martial arts and Eastern philosophy" which isn't very deep characterization. He displays a frustration could be borne from any number of things, but there's nothing concrete enough to give us.
If his background is so gosh-darn important, but they want to withhold the flashback episode on us until later, then they need to give us more of a connection between his past and the present. Flashbacks to monks hovering over young Danny doesn't tie into the now the way that Matt Murdock's remembrance of his father's defiant last fight did, the way that Jessica Jones' memories of Kilgrave did, the way that Luke Cage's constant looking over his shoulder worrying about his time at Seagate did.
Maybe this show is going to come together soon (it certainly started to improve in the third episode) but it really doesn't feel like it's going to be as great a series as the previous Netflix ones. I think the blame should be placed on the shoulders of the showrunner more than the cast - the actors seem to be doing fine with what they're being given, it's just that they aren't being given all that much. Special exception goes out to Ward Meachum, who is a bad 1%er pastiche.
Oh yeah, and the opening credits are just embarrassing. The animation doesn't convey to me anything about the character or tone of the show the way previous Marvel Netflix openings did, and the "theme" feels like it came out of a demo reel.
I mean, to put it in simpler terms what is putting me off the series is the writing, directing, editing, and the acting by Danny and the Meachums.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+1
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
edited March 2017
Remember the argument that the first Asian superhero in the MCU shouldn't be martial arts-based?
And now, at this rate, the first two Asian superheroes in the MCU will be Shang Chi and Karnak.
Shouldn't Danny have been listed as missing? It feels like this has literally never happened before. In no movie or tv show has someone gone missing under mysterious circumstances and had everybody they left behind just shrug and accept their death. Hey while Im on this kick in real life would someone like Danny have an recourse?
And hey I don't know a whole lot about Iron Fist but doesn't he have a mission statement or something? Like the secret warrior city that trained him, had him assassinate a dragon, then sent him out into the world should have a plan for him right? I get trying to get
EDIT: Flashing back to Ward being a sociopath over monopoly kinda makes Danny look like an idiot doesn't it? "Oh yeah I guess I never should have gone to my childhood bully for help in the first place..."
No, Danny would have been declared dead. The show kinda glosses this over. Danny would not have had any assets because they would have long ago been divested from his presumed dead ass.
It's not glossed over. Episode 3
Hogarth was declared the executor of the Rand Estate and has been managing it since then. She tells Danny that she's turning everything over to him and getting him declared living.
Because there's like 5 people in New York and they had to bring in Hogarth to Iron Fist anyways
+2
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Is it just me or are the episodes longer on this show? They almost all seem to be over an hour
0
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Remember the argument that the first Asian superhero in the MCU shouldn't be martial arts-based?
And now, at this rate, the first two Asian superheroes in the MCU will be Shang Chi and Karnak.
Does Colleen just not count or what?
That depends. Is she a superhero? Will she become a superhero?
And none of that "in the comics" stuff, I mean on-screen in the MCU.
She's a martial-arts based hero in a superhero MCU show, so...yes?
For me, she's like Misty Knight in that she's an important supporting character rather than full-on hero.
But even if she is, does that detract from my original criticism in any way?
I wasn't debating that, but it seemed like a weird choice to go with Shang Chi, who doesn't have anyone even talking about making anything out of, over Colleen Wing in the Iron Fist thread of all places.
Why would I bring up an asian martial artist character if I was trying to discount the idea that the first asian MCU superhero was martial arts based?
No one cared. No one gave a single shit. Maybe the actors, but no one else. This just has "who gives a shit" written all over it.
I do think the actors are actually largely doing a decent job with the material they've been given
But they're being actively undercut by the script every step of the way. Character motivations are all over the place, no one really seems to be very firmly characterized from one scene to the next. The show spends a LOT of time having characters do things very slowly, and spends very little time focusing on just building character and relationships. There has yet to be a moment that I've seen where a character will do something, and you'll go, "Oh yeah, that makes sense that so-and-so would decide to do that, should've expected it."
Like, whenever Colleen and Danny actually have a real conversation I actually find them pretty charming together, but they've had like, 2 real conversations in the space of 5 episodes.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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Like the entire season is based on 2 things that get revealed past the initial 4 episodes.
2) the little he does know how to do is shit because he doesn't know how to control his fucking emotions apparently so he can't properly channel his chi.
Apparently the best we are going to get in regard to the iron fist we were expecting is
I'm sorry
But I never imagined it would be so utterly incompetent at everything else
It's a show about a guy with unbreakable hands called Iron Fist! How do you not make that at least entertaining to watch?
I mean shit I would have accepted Arrow-level quality!
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
It's so insane to me
The Marvel Netlfix ouvre hasn't exactly been perfect, but it's been consistently interesting, and has drawn a lot of attention as a result
You would think that if you got tapped to do the next one of those, you'd want to make a good impression
But I guess not!
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Especially when it's all about the hand which everybody agrees is the worst part of these shows
which almost, almost, makes up for everything else.
I was thinking about that recently. Unfortunately I don't think he's been set up as someone that can go toe to toe with Spidey. The power gap is just too great.
They're bringing in Sigourney Weaver and dropping the episode order down from 13 so...two points are already in its favor, at least
Disagree.
I mean I'm not saying Kingpin isn't a formidable opponent, but Matt isn't fighting back at all in that scene. It would absolutely blow his cover for a blind guy to start busting out the Kung Fu.
Matt is thrown off in that scene in pretty much every way you can think of, i don't think he'd win any kind of fight in that moment even if he was trying
1. Is an Iron Fist or MCU superfan.
2. "But the character is white."
3. Has an alt-right related name and/or avatar.
4. "No, YOU'RE the real racists."
5. Using the show as a platform to make fun of and insult SJWs.
I'd say most of them are white, but that wouldn't be quite fair.
Matt did fight back.
"Ah, yes, son of a boxer!"
Every previous Netflix series has started in media res. It's presented the title hero already operating, shows us their powers, introduces their motivations to us. It's only a few episodes later down the line that we learn more about their origins, what brought them to the here-and-now, what is the darkness that is the driving force underneath their good actions.
Iron Fist is not structured at all like this. It's set up like it's a normal weekly-airing serial, starting us off with a hero we know nothing about that we gradually learn about and raising the stakes as the episodes go on - except that it's also trying to be a Netflix series that doesn't deliver steady progression of plot in episode-length formats. It's trying to be all mysterious about Danny's past but they keep reusing the same damn flashback over and over again - it's not more illuminating the fifth time we see it, it's just ridiculous. Any intention of drama is sucked out of it.
And let's talk motivation. As I said, I'm three episodes in and Danny is still basically a cipher to me. His statements about what he "wants" are obtuse, to the point of frustration. He says what he wants, but we have no understanding of the why he wants it, no grasp of the deeper motivations driving him. We have no strong character traits for him other than "knows martial arts and Eastern philosophy" which isn't very deep characterization. He displays a frustration could be borne from any number of things, but there's nothing concrete enough to give us.
If his background is so gosh-darn important, but they want to withhold the flashback episode on us until later, then they need to give us more of a connection between his past and the present. Flashbacks to monks hovering over young Danny doesn't tie into the now the way that Matt Murdock's remembrance of his father's defiant last fight did, the way that Jessica Jones' memories of Kilgrave did, the way that Luke Cage's constant looking over his shoulder worrying about his time at Seagate did.
Maybe this show is going to come together soon (it certainly started to improve in the third episode) but it really doesn't feel like it's going to be as great a series as the previous Netflix ones. I think the blame should be placed on the shoulders of the showrunner more than the cast - the actors seem to be doing fine with what they're being given, it's just that they aren't being given all that much. Special exception goes out to Ward Meachum, who is a bad 1%er pastiche.
Oh yeah, and the opening credits are just embarrassing. The animation doesn't convey to me anything about the character or tone of the show the way previous Marvel Netflix openings did, and the "theme" feels like it came out of a demo reel.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Danny comes off like a aloof fool with a heart of gold(iron).
Ward seemed lame at first but his I don't want be here attitude fits with his dad making him a henchman.
Colleen has been fun so far.
But you know, I loved all that ninja shit in Daredevil. So im biased.
Im a Ninja sympathizer
D&D is insane, holy shit.
That's not really fighting back. It's a token gesture. Even a blind man can take a swing at the guy grabbing his coat, and Matt has got a temper.
But do you really think the best Daredevil can do, after all the shit he's been through, is to take one shot and then just squirm while Kingpin yells at him?
He was absolutely taken by surprise by the initial assault. That I believe. Had Kingpin truly meant to kill him, who knows how it would've ended? But Kingpin didn't intend to kill him and he knew that, so instead he focused on preserving his cover.
That's my take, anyway.
I mean, it was a pretty damn good counter and made Fisk think twice about Murdock's abilities. I think you overestimate what a person can do once they've been grappled by a much bigger man.
I mean, to put it in simpler terms what is putting me off the series is the writing, directing, editing, and the acting by Danny and the Meachums.
And now, at this rate, the first two Asian superheroes in the MCU will be Shang Chi and Karnak.
It's not glossed over. Episode 3
Because there's like 5 people in New York and they had to bring in Hogarth to Iron Fist anyways
Does Colleen just not count or what?
That depends. Is she a superhero? Will she become a superhero?
And none of that "in the comics" stuff, I mean on-screen in the MCU.
And...
Uhhhh
She's a martial-arts based hero in a superhero MCU show, so...yes?
For me, she's like Misty Knight in that she's an important supporting character rather than full-on hero.
But even if she is, does that detract from my original criticism in any way?
I wasn't debating that, but it seemed like a weird choice to go with Shang Chi, who doesn't have anyone even talking about making anything out of, over Colleen Wing in the Iron Fist thread of all places.
Why would I bring up an asian martial artist character if I was trying to discount the idea that the first asian MCU superhero was martial arts based?
I do think the actors are actually largely doing a decent job with the material they've been given
But they're being actively undercut by the script every step of the way. Character motivations are all over the place, no one really seems to be very firmly characterized from one scene to the next. The show spends a LOT of time having characters do things very slowly, and spends very little time focusing on just building character and relationships. There has yet to be a moment that I've seen where a character will do something, and you'll go, "Oh yeah, that makes sense that so-and-so would decide to do that, should've expected it."
Like, whenever Colleen and Danny actually have a real conversation I actually find them pretty charming together, but they've had like, 2 real conversations in the space of 5 episodes.