One of the consistent issues I have with it is that Danny hasn't been shown to be able to kick any ass. He frequently has what seem like challenging fights against guys who are just... guys. If there's a henchman who's over 200lbs, he's going to give Danny a rough time. I don't know much about Iron Fist, but I feel like he should probably be able to kick the ass of any regular guy very quickly. Daredevil is just regular Good At Fighting with some limited sense powers and he comes across as much more effective than this. I don't think they really considered what a credible threat to Danny would look like, so they just throw in occasional Bigger Than Average people for one on one fights.
Yeah it is really blatant that he is constantly only as badass as the plot needs him to be at any given time.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
One of the consistent issues I have with it is that Danny hasn't been shown to be able to kick any ass. He frequently has what seem like challenging fights against guys who are just... guys. If there's a henchman who's over 200lbs, he's going to give Danny a rough time. I don't know much about Iron Fist, but I feel like he should probably be able to kick the ass of any regular guy very quickly. Daredevil is just regular Good At Fighting with some limited sense powers and he comes across as much more effective than this. I don't think they really considered what a credible threat to Danny would look like, so they just throw in occasional Bigger Than Average people for one on one fights.
Yeah it is really blatant that he is constantly only as badass as the plot needs him to be at any given time.
Well
It sounds like a plot point that comes up later is that Danny skipped out on his training to early and he's actually a really shitty Iron Fist. Doesn't explain why his Iron Fist knocks guys down and nothing else.
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TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
I don't buy the whole "Danny's just making it look effortless" angle, because thus far, his moves are either slow and awkward or fast and messy.
And then you consider that interview where he said he only got to train for maybe three weeks and there were times when he had to start learning the choreography 10-15 minutes before shooting.
Jesus, three weeks? That's terrible. Man, I feel really sorry for this guy. No one is going to watch it and go "oh I guess he didn't have time to prepare", they'll just think he's lazy or he sucks. Professional stuntmen probably couldn't do a good job with choreography they learned 15 fucking minutes ago.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Every problem with this series can be boiled down to "they announced that they were doing it and they announced the follow-up series before they bothered to find someone that had any ideas for an Iron Fist series." They're doing that with the MCU, too, where they announced stuff like Captain Marvel and they...have they announced a director yet?
They have two writers and a lead for Cpt Marvel. Fuck knows about the rest of it.
As for Iron Fist, I don't think the problem is that they announced it early, I think the problem is that they announced it in 2013 and for whatever reason they didn't get a whole crew together on this until February 2016 and shot it starting in April 2016. Announce shit all you want, it doesn't change anything because apparently studios regularly plan for movies/shows well in advance and the only difference is that Marvel said something about it. But man, they had three years to get shit in place.
I thought the "fight" with the stereotypical sexy femme fatale was actually pretty good. I believe that Danny would have a lot of trouble with someone who used those kind of tactics on him. Like, he was in a monastery for 15 years. He probably super needs to come.
I thought the "fight" with the stereotypical sexy femme fatale was actually pretty good. I believe that Danny would have a lot of trouble with someone who used those kind of tactics on him. Like, he was in a monastery for 15 years. He probably super needs to come.
I thought the "fight" with the stereotypical sexy femme fatale was actually pretty good. I believe that Danny would have a lot of trouble with someone who used those kind of tactics on him. Like, he was in a monastery for 15 years. He probably super needs to come.
Is that like a power she has? Spiders? It looks like they stayed pretty close to the comics. Normally this trope would make me roll my eyes, but Danny is such a naif that's it's 100% plausible that he would handle that scenario really really badly
Also Coleen and/or her stunt performer is pretty good and makes her look much more effective than Danny. A big guy attacks her and she manages to take him down without a five minute long fight scene and magical glowing fist. It looks like they might be adjusting her fighting style based on the fact that the earlier cage fighting stuff looked incredibly fucking stupid
The good stuff in this episode is kind of undercut by the ridiculous sudden inclusion of a drug abuse plotline for DT jr
Ok Episode 6 is the strongest episode so far. It has decent fight scenes, more than one properly set up adversary for Danny to fight and his dumb flippy kicks and shit actually look coherent when he's fighting a guy with a Naginata. He also summons the glow stick fist without taking a five minute break to think about his fucking feelings too, and then does something useful with it.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
Okay I'm still liking this for the most part but Danny is such a dumbass at times and not in ways that I think are deliberate parts of the story?
Also the ending of episode 3 and the start of episode 4 are hilarious slapstick humour, but again not intentional as far as I can tell
That's sad to hear that several aspects of the show seemed kind of thrown together, or at least not given the time and dedication that they had to be. It does seem like this show has a decent outline, but is lacking in...effort I guess?
Danny constantly tries to pay Coleen's rent so that she'll owe him something, and she consistently refuses. He responds by buying her building and telling her she's his landlord.
That's sad to hear that several aspects of the show seemed kind of thrown together, or at least not given the time and dedication that they had to be. It does seem like this show has a decent outline, but is lacking in...effort I guess?
It doesn't really have a good outline. It's not clear that they're aware that the many character flaws they've written into Danny are actually character flaws. He isn't really called on it, and his characterisation is wildly inconsistent.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I don't buy the whole "Danny's just making it look effortless" angle, because thus far, his moves are either slow and awkward or fast and messy.
And then you consider that interview where he said he only got to train for maybe three weeks and there were times when he had to start learning the choreography 10-15 minutes before shooting.
That explain a lot about what I've seen in the show so far. That's really sloppy handling of a show of this kind.
Jesus, three weeks? That's terrible. Man, I feel really sorry for this guy. No one is going to watch it and go "oh I guess he didn't have time to prepare", they'll just think he's lazy or he sucks. Professional stuntmen probably couldn't do a good job with choreography they learned 15 fucking minutes ago.
Now I'm just wondering why he's so vehemently defensive of the show
You'd think he'd, at best, just stick to the bare minimum of his promotional duties since he got such a raw deal
Does he just not realize he's being thrown under the bus here?
That's sad to hear that several aspects of the show seemed kind of thrown together, or at least not given the time and dedication that they had to be. It does seem like this show has a decent outline, but is lacking in...effort I guess?
It doesn't really have a good outline. It's not clear that they're aware that the many character flaws they've written into Danny are actually character flaws. He isn't really called on it, and his characterisation is wildly inconsistent.
Also the whole set up seems concieved as a way to get us far from actually getting the Ironfist as possible. He skipped out on his training so he's mostly just a regular guy except when he isnt.
People groussed when We first heard that daredevil season 1 he'd wear the black costume the whole time but at least when you got to the show he was unmistakenly daredevil right at the beginning.
It feels like Im watching the first 20 minutes of batman begins except let's stretch it to a season and only hint at the ras alghoul training.
Danny constantly tries to pay Coleen's rent so that she'll owe him something, and she consistently refuses. He responds by buying her building and telling her she's his landlord.
like the implications of Danny and Colleen getting together after all the shit he pulled are terrible. He pays her fucking rent! Against her will! He bought her!
So I've tried to avoid reading too much of this thread, and reaction towards the show in general, because it is a giant bummer to see just non-stop high octane shitting, even if it is totally warranted which a good deal of it is, on a character I dig enough that I have a dang tattoo from them.
But I got some thoughts on the show's version of Danny, sorry if these have already been covered.
I think one of the fundamental problems of the show is that it misunderstands Danny Rand pretty hard. Comics Danny is a kung-fu billionaire white guy, but he is a well meaning goofball who is acutely aware of his privilege and both tries to expand his horizons as much as possible and use that privilege to help those without his lot in life. Show Danny is an arrogant assertive hippie as whole who thinks he knows everything and almost revels in his role as MAGIC KUNG-FU GENIUS BILLIONAIRE.
There are two particular contrasts between this and Immortal Iron Fist (easily the best comic starring him and what made me fall in love with the character) that came to mind with scenes from the show. The first is when Danny orders fucking gourmet five star "takeout" with waorwr service for Colleen. In IIF there's a scene with Danny and Luke after Danny wakes up from getting his ass kicked where they are eating shitty delivery Chinese and Luke asks how Danny can dig it so much when he can buy the finest shit around and Danny says he knows it is shitty, but it reminds him of hanging with Luke and being with his friends and thats why it is his favorite.
The second is how whenever Danny is offered up a new viewpoint or wrinkle to magic Kung-Fu shit or gets his ass kicked in the show he just throws a goddamn tantrum about how he's THE IRON FIST I AM DESTINED TO BE BETTER THAN ANYONE and doesn't learn much at all. Comics Danny takes his lumps, realizes he isn't king shit of poop mountain and goes from there. Like, first round of the Heavenly Tournament he gets his ass beat easily and loses. First round. and he picks himself up and goes "yup, that dude is way better than me." and moves on.
I think there are glimpses of this Danny in the show, and that's where Jones is at his best, when he gets to just be a total space cadet dumbass but there aren't nearly enough of them and the rest of the performance is almost diametrically opposed to them.
I don't hate the show, I don't love it either, and I have a few episodes left, but I cannot recommend enough that folks check out either Immortal Iron Fist or the current Power Man and Iron Fist book to see what this character totally could have been and why it is such a bummer they didn't do it right.
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masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
So much of what makes Immortal Iron Fist work is showing how Danny is special in his ability to recognize that he isn't that special
It's the title that's immortal, etc. Probably the best arc of the book has him buying time for someone else to lead a populist revolution!
To be honest this show feels like a very accurate adaptation of the original Iron Fist comics. Which were okay for the time period they were released in but have aged very poorly and also just aren't that great.
My hope, at this point, is that Defenders will do for Danny what merging his book with Luke Cage's did in the comics and cause him to realize that he has been kind of a shitty asshole rich boy and develop from there.
The first really big red flag I had with this version of Danny was in episode 1
when he tells the homeless dude who clearly has mental issues that "people probably think we are the same huh" which is just STUPENDOUSLY assholish and also not at all something Danny Rand would be saying
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
Martial arts nitpick but that bit with the leopard fist is super dumb
Holding your fist like that is okay for soft-tissue strikes like when she punched the big guy inside the shoulder joint but it is quite simply weaker and less reinforced than a proper fist so those repeated punches in the face should have messed up her hands more than anything else
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
Also, prediction halfway through episode 4:
Harold Meachum really is a "hungry ghost" like Danny thought originally
Tube, I don't know if you read comics too much but I genuinely think you would dig Immortal Iron Fist a whole lot and also would love to hear your thoughts on it
Especially in contrast to the show since you don't have much experience with him otherwise I think
Martial arts nitpick but that bit with the leopard fist is super dumb
Holding your fist like that is okay for soft-tissue strikes like when she punched the big guy inside the shoulder joint but it is quite simply weaker and less reinforced than a proper fist so those repeated punches in the face should have messed up her hands more than anything else
Even with a proper fist, punches to the head are pretty risky for your hands. The skull is pretty tough.
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Yeah it is really blatant that he is constantly only as badass as the plot needs him to be at any given time.
Well
And then you consider that interview where he said he only got to train for maybe three weeks and there were times when he had to start learning the choreography 10-15 minutes before shooting.
They have two writers and a lead for Cpt Marvel. Fuck knows about the rest of it.
As for Iron Fist, I don't think the problem is that they announced it early, I think the problem is that they announced it in 2013 and for whatever reason they didn't get a whole crew together on this until February 2016 and shot it starting in April 2016. Announce shit all you want, it doesn't change anything because apparently studios regularly plan for movies/shows well in advance and the only difference is that Marvel said something about it. But man, they had three years to get shit in place.
the shoot for the hobbit was an almost biblical disaster before they brought peter jackson back in to direct, this is just poor planning
I don't care about any of the corporate shit or Meachum family drama
I... kind of liked it? But it's by far the worst of all marvel Netflix shows
Also Coleen and/or her stunt performer is pretty good and makes her look much more effective than Danny. A big guy attacks her and she manages to take him down without a five minute long fight scene and magical glowing fist. It looks like they might be adjusting her fighting style based on the fact that the earlier cage fighting stuff looked incredibly fucking stupid
The good stuff in this episode is kind of undercut by the ridiculous sudden inclusion of a drug abuse plotline for DT jr
Also the ending of episode 3 and the start of episode 4 are hilarious slapstick humour, but again not intentional as far as I can tell
It was just awkward and boring and kinda dumb
It's sad because this was the Netflix series I was most looking forward to
My favorite tweet about this show:
It doesn't really have a good outline. It's not clear that they're aware that the many character flaws they've written into Danny are actually character flaws. He isn't really called on it, and his characterisation is wildly inconsistent.
Now I'm just wondering why he's so vehemently defensive of the show
You'd think he'd, at best, just stick to the bare minimum of his promotional duties since he got such a raw deal
Does he just not realize he's being thrown under the bus here?
Also the whole set up seems concieved as a way to get us far from actually getting the Ironfist as possible. He skipped out on his training so he's mostly just a regular guy except when he isnt.
People groussed when We first heard that daredevil season 1 he'd wear the black costume the whole time but at least when you got to the show he was unmistakenly daredevil right at the beginning.
It feels like Im watching the first 20 minutes of batman begins except let's stretch it to a season and only hint at the ras alghoul training.
The one thing I thought this show might get right is
Or Big Trouble in Little China, but without John Carpenter having the sense to make Jack Burton the comic relief
But I got some thoughts on the show's version of Danny, sorry if these have already been covered.
I think one of the fundamental problems of the show is that it misunderstands Danny Rand pretty hard. Comics Danny is a kung-fu billionaire white guy, but he is a well meaning goofball who is acutely aware of his privilege and both tries to expand his horizons as much as possible and use that privilege to help those without his lot in life. Show Danny is an arrogant assertive hippie as whole who thinks he knows everything and almost revels in his role as MAGIC KUNG-FU GENIUS BILLIONAIRE.
There are two particular contrasts between this and Immortal Iron Fist (easily the best comic starring him and what made me fall in love with the character) that came to mind with scenes from the show. The first is when Danny orders fucking gourmet five star "takeout" with waorwr service for Colleen. In IIF there's a scene with Danny and Luke after Danny wakes up from getting his ass kicked where they are eating shitty delivery Chinese and Luke asks how Danny can dig it so much when he can buy the finest shit around and Danny says he knows it is shitty, but it reminds him of hanging with Luke and being with his friends and thats why it is his favorite.
The second is how whenever Danny is offered up a new viewpoint or wrinkle to magic Kung-Fu shit or gets his ass kicked in the show he just throws a goddamn tantrum about how he's THE IRON FIST I AM DESTINED TO BE BETTER THAN ANYONE and doesn't learn much at all. Comics Danny takes his lumps, realizes he isn't king shit of poop mountain and goes from there. Like, first round of the Heavenly Tournament he gets his ass beat easily and loses. First round. and he picks himself up and goes "yup, that dude is way better than me." and moves on.
I think there are glimpses of this Danny in the show, and that's where Jones is at his best, when he gets to just be a total space cadet dumbass but there aren't nearly enough of them and the rest of the performance is almost diametrically opposed to them.
I don't hate the show, I don't love it either, and I have a few episodes left, but I cannot recommend enough that folks check out either Immortal Iron Fist or the current Power Man and Iron Fist book to see what this character totally could have been and why it is such a bummer they didn't do it right.
It's the title that's immortal, etc. Probably the best arc of the book has him buying time for someone else to lead a populist revolution!
My hope, at this point, is that Defenders will do for Danny what merging his book with Luke Cage's did in the comics and cause him to realize that he has been kind of a shitty asshole rich boy and develop from there.
Holding your fist like that is okay for soft-tissue strikes like when she punched the big guy inside the shoulder joint but it is quite simply weaker and less reinforced than a proper fist so those repeated punches in the face should have messed up her hands more than anything else
He is a much better villain than Ward
Especially in contrast to the show since you don't have much experience with him otherwise I think
Even with a proper fist, punches to the head are pretty risky for your hands. The skull is pretty tough.