Options

Primaries: Democralypse Now!

1343537394060

Posts

  • Options
    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Houn wrote: »
    Bar has been reset. *sigh*
    “If he fails to win [in Pennsylvania], despite outspending us massively, it will be another sign he is unable to win the large states a candidate needs to win,” Wolfson said, making sure the bar stays high for the Keystone state. He also said an Obama loss there would be evidence he is “unable to close the deal” and that it would be a “clear indication” that he has not passed the Commander-In-Chief and “steward of the economy” tests.

    “If he fails to win in Pennsylvania, it would be a significant defeat for him,” Wolfson emphasized.
    One day, I will learn not to read the comments.

    One day.

    Thanatos on
  • Options
    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    I mean, the latest articles have the farmland used to cultivate the fuel crops emitting levels of nitrous oxide that totally cancel out any reduction in carbon dioxide in terms of global warming.
    Is that just for corn, or is it for higher-density fuel crops, like sugar and wheatgrass, too?

    I believe it has a result of using petroleum based fertilizer and farmland that had otherwise been left fallow. The actual study was looking at . . . something they use in Europe more than North America. My memory is fuzzy.

    *googles*

    Yeah, it was based off a study of rapeseed production published in Chemistry and Industry.

    News Story

    They can make biodiesel from algae and that would be good for the environment, but since most biodiesel is made from agricultural products, as it stands it is almost always not so good.

    Speaker on
  • Options
    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    Are you asking as in you want information or is that rhetorical?
    I'm asking because I'd like information. Since my brother asked, I've been curious about it myself.

    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.

    It's a stupid point. If Obama literally had no plans, someone would have noticed by now.

    I mean, all you need to do is go to his website.

    If anything, the fact that a person might think that he has no substance only points to that individual's unwillingness to investigate candidates he or she is opposed to before judging them as poor, which to me is one of the worst flaws for a voter to have.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Options
    BitstreamBitstream Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    Bar has been reset. *sigh*
    “If he fails to win [in Pennsylvania], despite outspending us massively, it will be another sign he is unable to win the large states a candidate needs to win,” Wolfson said, making sure the bar stays high for the Keystone state. He also said an Obama loss there would be evidence he is “unable to close the deal” and that it would be a “clear indication” that he has not passed the Commander-In-Chief and “steward of the economy” tests.

    “If he fails to win in Pennsylvania, it would be a significant defeat for him,” Wolfson emphasized.
    One day, I will learn not to read the comments.

    One day.
    Obama went "negative" on Hillary at the Philadelphia debate last November. His surrogates said BITTER, nasty, mean-spirited things about her and the press ate it up.
    So, if her ad's in Pa. are negative, too bad.
    Obama is the one running around telling us we're "bitter" if we don't vote for him, not Hillary.

    Ah, America.

    Bitstream on
  • Options
    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.
    What exactly do you mean by "substance"?

    Long, bulleted lists of policy proposals? He has them too; they're on his website. Chances are, you're not hearing about them because (1) the media likes to talk more about candidates' verbal faux pas than policy positions, and (2) Obama's policy positions are largely identical to Clinton's.

    Qingu on
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    Bar has been reset. *sigh*
    “If he fails to win [in Pennsylvania], despite outspending us massively, it will be another sign he is unable to win the large states a candidate needs to win,” Wolfson said, making sure the bar stays high for the Keystone state. He also said an Obama loss there would be evidence he is “unable to close the deal” and that it would be a “clear indication” that he has not passed the Commander-In-Chief and “steward of the economy” tests.

    “If he fails to win in Pennsylvania, it would be a significant defeat for him,” Wolfson emphasized.
    One day, I will learn not to read the comments.

    One day.

    My mental image of this campaign is a bunch of people with like 15 sets of goalposts running circles around each other.

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    Are you asking as in you want information or is that rhetorical?
    I'm asking because I'd like information. Since my brother asked, I've been curious about it myself.

    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.

    He gave two policy speeches immediately after the race-relations one that outlined specifics on foreign policy and economic policy. To google you go!

    PS: Or just go this website and, you know, read.

    Raynaga on
  • Options
    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/15/romney-holtz-eakin/

    It seems Romney didn't get the memo about McCain not really caring about reducing the deficit afterall. Perhaps the signal from the robot control center didn't make it through his finely coiffed helmet.. err.. hair.

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    Are you asking as in you want information or is that rhetorical?
    I'm asking because I'd like information. Since my brother asked, I've been curious about it myself.

    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.

    He gave two policy speeches immediately after the race-relations one that outlined specifics on foreign policy and economic policy. To google you go!

    PS: Or just go this website and, you know, read.

    With your eyes.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • Options
    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    Are you asking as in you want information or is that rhetorical?
    I'm asking because I'd like information. Since my brother asked, I've been curious about it myself.

    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.

    It's a lot of typing for me Richy. I'm sure if you googled "Obama _____ policy speech" you could get the details on almost anything.

    Off the top of my head:
    He wants to leave Iraq in a measured way, negotiate with some foreign leaders face to face who other candidates would not meet face to face with, work towards reducing the arsenals of nuclear powers, send troops into Pakistan for targeted strikes against Al-Qaeda leadership even if it upsets the Pakistanis.

    He wants to bring down the cost of health insurance, but not mandate coverage, through collective bargaining for medication, having the government pick up the tab for anyone whose medical bills accumulate beyond a certain point - and from there in the usual Democratic position about making medical records electronic etc.

    He supports nuclear energy and the development of more nuclear plants.

    He would end Don't Ask Don't Tell and favors civil unions.

    I haven't followed his recent economic policy speeches but God knows he's been making them in Pennsylvania.

    Speaker on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    He stands for this.

    moniker on
  • Options
    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Alright, I'm reading the website.

    Though I would have liked a site a bit less biased. Is there maybe an objective site contrasting all three candidates issue by issue?

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    Are you asking as in you want information or is that rhetorical?
    I'm asking because I'd like information. Since my brother asked, I've been curious about it myself.

    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.

    It's a lot of typing for me Richy. I'm sure if you googled "Obama _____ policy speech" you could get the details on almost anything.

    Off the top of my head:
    He wants to leave Iraq in a measured way, negotiate with some foreign leaders face to face who other candidates would not meet face to face with, work towards reducing the arsenals of nuclear powers, send troops into Pakistan for targeted strikes against Al-Qaeda leadership even if it upsets the Pakistanis.

    He wants to bring down the cost of health insurance, but not mandate coverage, through collective bargaining for medication, having the government pick up the tab for anyone whose medical bills accumulate beyond a certain point - and from there in the usual Democratic position about making medical records electronic etc.

    He supports nuclear energy and the development of more nuclear plants.

    He would end Don't Ask Don't Tell and favors civil unions.

    I haven't followed his recent economic policy speeches but God knows he's been making them in Pennsylvania.

    I was under the impression his health care plan was primarily subsidizing private health insurance plans on a scaling scale.

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Alright, I'm reading the website.

    Though I would have liked a site a bit less biased. Is there maybe an objective site contrasting all three candidates issue by issue?

    Not in any real depth. Popular Mechanic did a shitty comparison of the more geeky policy aspects back when we were fielding baseball teams.

    moniker on
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Alright, I'm reading the website.

    Though I would have liked a site a bit less biased. Is there maybe an objective site contrasting all three candidates issue by issue?

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

    fairly basic but it's a start

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2008
    ...on a scaling scale.

    On a what now?

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • Options
    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Alright, I'm reading the website.

    Though I would have liked a site a bit less biased. Is there maybe an objective site contrasting all three candidates issue by issue?

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

    fairly basic but it's a start
    Beaten to this one, but I have another!

    http://www.politicalbase.com/issues/

    SithDrummer on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    So here's a question my brother asked me. What does Obama stand for? I mean, so far his campaign seems to have great momentum thanks only to the strength of his speeches and charisma. What are his policies? Where does he stand on the war, the economy, healthcare and social security? What does he plan to do about them?

    Are you asking as in you want information or is that rhetorical?
    I'm asking because I'd like information. Since my brother asked, I've been curious about it myself.

    My bro was asking rhetorically to make a point, that there's little substance to Obama once you look beyond the charismatic speeches.

    It's a lot of typing for me Richy. I'm sure if you googled "Obama _____ policy speech" you could get the details on almost anything.

    Off the top of my head:
    He wants to leave Iraq in a measured way, negotiate with some foreign leaders face to face who other candidates would not meet face to face with, work towards reducing the arsenals of nuclear powers, send troops into Pakistan for targeted strikes against Al-Qaeda leadership even if it upsets the Pakistanis.

    He wants to bring down the cost of health insurance, but not mandate coverage, through collective bargaining for medication, having the government pick up the tab for anyone whose medical bills accumulate beyond a certain point - and from there in the usual Democratic position about making medical records electronic etc.

    He supports nuclear energy and the development of more nuclear plants.

    He would end Don't Ask Don't Tell and favors civil unions.

    I haven't followed his recent economic policy speeches but God knows he's been making them in Pennsylvania.

    I was under the impression his health care plan was primarily subsidizing private health insurance plans on a scaling scale.

    He also makes the federal plan open to anyone and eliminates pre-existing conditions as a factor.

    moniker on
  • Options
    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Alright, I'm reading the website.

    Though I would have liked a site a bit less biased. Is there maybe an objective site contrasting all three candidates issue by issue?
    http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=9490

    Qingu on
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ...on a scaling scale.

    On a what now?

    Basically a varible payment level based on income. Meaning people with money pay more and people without pay less to nothing.

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    LuqLuq Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Luq wrote: »
    Holy crap, have you guys seen that "Barack Obama: EXPOSED!" PDF that Human Events is putting out? What a freaking mess. An advertisement popped up in my gmail for it, and foolishly I was curious as to what these "conservative voices" would have to say. Oh dear me. Good for a laugh.

    Sorry I didn't include the PDF last night. I just uploaded it. http://www.mediafire.com/?3njninbac2m

    edit: Human Events

    Luq on
    FFRK:jWwH RW:Onion Knight's Sage USB
  • Options
    Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2008
    ...on a scaling scale.

    On a what now?

    Basically a varible payment level based on income. Meaning people with money pay more and people without pay less to nothing.

    The reason I ask is because you used a fairly redundant term. Are you sure you didn't mean to use a different word?

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • Options
    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Richy wrote: »
    Alright, I'm reading the website.

    Though I would have liked a site a bit less biased. Is there maybe an objective site contrasting all three candidates issue by issue?

    A little less biased? It's Obama's campaign site, that lists his platform on practically any issue you could want.

    It's the EXACT information you asked for.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Options
    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ...on a scaling scale.

    On a what now?

    Basically a varible payment level based on income. Meaning people with money pay more and people without pay less to nothing.

    The reason I ask is because you used a fairly redundant term. Are you sure you didn't mean to use a different word?

    sliding scale?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    err

    opps stupid typo

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Alright, thanks for the links guys!

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Seriously, the whole "he speaks well but I don't know what he stands for" spiel needs to die in a fire. There's a big ol' internet out there that can answer your questions in seconds. Ignorance of his positions, in this case, are a result of you being a lazy bastard, not because Obama is lacking in substance.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • Options
    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    It's all bio-fuel really. I was studying it to see if I wanted to recommend that our town vehicles move to B-20 and it really is not the way to go - unless they start making it from algae or something.

    I mean, the latest articles have the farmland used to cultivate the fuel crops emitting levels of nitrous oxide that totally cancel out any reduction in carbon dioxide in terms of global warming.

    First, I was under the impression that biodiesel was, in general, a cleaner-burning fuel than gasoline or standard diesel. Am I wrong? Nothing against you, but I get annoyed every time someone dismisses something that's environmentally friendlier just because it's not battling global warming.

    Second, even if it's environmentally neutral, isn't it a good idea to move towards a fuel source that's less reliant on oil and more fuel efficient besides? Diesel engines >> gasoline engines when it comes to gas mileage, right?

    I can see how if we'd need to completely restructure our economy around biodiesel how it might be a poor idea, but diesel is already a well-established technology, is the standard for many industries, and could be expanded in automobiles, too. I'm not seeing a huge reason to not go with it.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • Options
    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    geckahn wrote: »
    TheMarshal wrote: »
    So if cities were pandered to instead of farm country, what would political pandering look like then?

    benefiting a higher percentage of the population?

    The number one example of disproportionate rural policy - sugar lobby. The amount of absolutely indefensible power that they hold is totally ridiculous. They fuck over the entire country, and benefit nobody but themselves. It is so fucked.

    Are you actually blaming that on the electoral college?

    Hey, you know what would solve most of the problems people bitch about without completely marginalizing small and empty states? Keeping the electoral college and killing the winner-take-all part.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • Options
    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Biodiesel is not cleaner.

    If you look at some of the Benz's, it's not that much different.

    And hybrids are the bees knees.

    Zen Vulgarity on
  • Options
    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/15/romney-holtz-eakin/

    It seems Romney didn't get the memo about McCain not really caring about reducing the deficit afterall. Perhaps the signal from the robot control center didn't make it through his finely coiffed helmet.. err.. hair.

    I wonder if McCain's proponents know his positions any better than they know Obama's.

    I can't imagine anyone supporting this sort of thing otherwise.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Options
    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    geckahn wrote: »
    TheMarshal wrote: »
    So if cities were pandered to instead of farm country, what would political pandering look like then?
    benefiting a higher percentage of the population?

    The number one example of disproportionate rural policy - sugar lobby. The amount of absolutely indefensible power that they hold is totally ridiculous. They fuck over the entire country, and benefit nobody but themselves. It is so fucked.
    Are you actually blaming that on the electoral college?
    Hey, you know what would solve most of the problems people bitch about without completely marginalizing small and empty states? Keeping the electoral college and killing the winner-take-all part.
    In that it would give small and empty states far more power, thus exacerbating the problems, instead of solving them? Yes, yes it would.

    The small and empty states have the Senate.

    Thanatos on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    It's all bio-fuel really. I was studying it to see if I wanted to recommend that our town vehicles move to B-20 and it really is not the way to go - unless they start making it from algae or something.

    I mean, the latest articles have the farmland used to cultivate the fuel crops emitting levels of nitrous oxide that totally cancel out any reduction in carbon dioxide in terms of global warming.

    First, I was under the impression that biodiesel was, in general, a cleaner-burning fuel than gasoline or standard diesel. Am I wrong? Nothing against you, but I get annoyed every time someone dismisses something that's environmentally friendlier just because it's not battling global warming.

    Second, even if it's environmentally neutral, isn't it a good idea to move towards a fuel source that's less reliant on oil and more fuel efficient besides? Diesel engines >> gasoline engines when it comes to gas mileage, right?

    I can see how if we'd need to completely restructure our economy around biodiesel how it might be a poor idea, but diesel is already a well-established technology, is the standard for many industries, and could be expanded in automobiles, too. I'm not seeing a huge reason to not go with it.

    The issue with converting to diesel as a primary fuel source (forgetting bio-) is in the costs of refining it. Right now most of our plants kick out almost pure gas and retooling them to upend the equation and have it be diesel with a little gas would not be cheap or easy. Europe does roughly half and half with their refineries, and the extra gas for all the diesel they produce gets shipped over here. If we start wanting more diesel and less gas that's going to create a glut of gasoline or require them to retool their plants as well. Which really sucks, because diesel is like 2-3x more efficient than gas in an ICE. Plus we should be moving towards electric motors and diesel generators powering up the batteries when necessary for hybrids rather than what Prius' are doing.

    As far as biodiesel, it sucks on many levels. Even if you ignore the stupidity of our inevitable use of corn for it and stuck with sugar cane...well there's only so many acres of land that stuff can grow on. Not ignoring our corn based stupidity, you get agflation. Which is already starting to happen.

    moniker on
  • Options
    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Also, wouldnt removing the state lines and electoral college and doing a pure popular vote do far more to enfranchise voters who dont live in swing states?

    You would have Senate to give power to small states
    Congress to give power to large states
    President to give power to the popular vote / majority

    Gnome-Interruptus on
    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
  • Options
    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    It's all bio-fuel really. I was studying it to see if I wanted to recommend that our town vehicles move to B-20 and it really is not the way to go - unless they start making it from algae or something.

    I mean, the latest articles have the farmland used to cultivate the fuel crops emitting levels of nitrous oxide that totally cancel out any reduction in carbon dioxide in terms of global warming.

    First, I was under the impression that biodiesel was, in general, a cleaner-burning fuel than gasoline or standard diesel. Am I wrong? Nothing against you, but I get annoyed every time someone dismisses something that's environmentally friendlier just because it's not battling global warming.

    Second, even if it's environmentally neutral, isn't it a good idea to move towards a fuel source that's less reliant on oil and more fuel efficient besides? Diesel engines >> gasoline engines when it comes to gas mileage, right?

    I can see how if we'd need to completely restructure our economy around biodiesel how it might be a poor idea, but diesel is already a well-established technology, is the standard for many industries, and could be expanded in automobiles, too. I'm not seeing a huge reason to not go with it.

    You still need tremendous amounts of energy to produce viable, fuel-grade ethanol. That energy has to come from somewhere (and in the Midwest its predominantly coal-burning plants) and thus you can end up spending more energy to create the finished product than you would save by going with oil/natural gas.

    I work in an ethanol "maximization" lab. We see a lot of corn. 5 million individually processed seeds a year. Living in the mid-west (especially central Illinois) sort of makes you love the stuff, even if you don't entirely agree with how ethanol is produced.

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    It's all bio-fuel really. I was studying it to see if I wanted to recommend that our town vehicles move to B-20 and it really is not the way to go - unless they start making it from algae or something.

    I mean, the latest articles have the farmland used to cultivate the fuel crops emitting levels of nitrous oxide that totally cancel out any reduction in carbon dioxide in terms of global warming.

    First, I was under the impression that biodiesel was, in general, a cleaner-burning fuel than gasoline or standard diesel. Am I wrong? Nothing against you, but I get annoyed every time someone dismisses something that's environmentally friendlier just because it's not battling global warming.

    Second, even if it's environmentally neutral, isn't it a good idea to move towards a fuel source that's less reliant on oil and more fuel efficient besides? Diesel engines >> gasoline engines when it comes to gas mileage, right?

    I can see how if we'd need to completely restructure our economy around biodiesel how it might be a poor idea, but diesel is already a well-established technology, is the standard for many industries, and could be expanded in automobiles, too. I'm not seeing a huge reason to not go with it.

    You still need tremendous amounts of energy to produce viable, fuel-grade ethanol. That energy has to come from somewhere (and in the Midwest its predominantly coal-burning plants) and thus you can end up spending more energy to create the finished product than you would save by going with oil/natural gas.

    I work in an ethanol "maximization" lab. We see a lot of corn. 5 million individually processed seeds a year. Living in the mid-west (especially central Illinois) sort of makes you love the stuff, even if you don't entirely agree with how ethanol is produced.

    There was something incredibly beautiful about the seemingly endless miles of corn fields on the ride down to college. Especially when I took the train and could enjoy the view.

    moniker on
  • Options
    LionLion Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Thoughts of a superdelegate
    Garry Shay wrote:
    5. I should vote for the candidate most likely to win in November, in my opinion.

    First, let me say I think they are both excellent candidates. However, as a result of the California Debate, I came to the conclusion that Sen. Clinton was the stronger candidate. That debate and the California Primary were crucial factors in my eventual decision. I simply felt she was just a little better, and the results of the California Primary only solidified that conclusion.

    Do note however, that if Sen. Obama enters the Convention with a lead in pledged delegates, that I will re-think my position. This would be based upon the idea that:

    8. I should vote for the candidate with the most pledged delegates, unless for some bizarre reason, I can honestly say that such a candidate is an anathema to the Democratic Party principles as I understand them.

    I believe the number of pledged delegates a candidate has should be a factor in my decision making. That doesn't mean I automatically change candidates if Sen. Obama has more pledged delegates in Denver, but it does mean I will study the situation more carefully. The greater the lead, the more intense the study.

    But, even if that does occur, I also have to take into consideration the fact that California voted for Sen. Clinton, which I believe should be a very strong consideration.

    Lion on
    PSN: WingedLion | XBL: Winged Lion
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    From what I gather corn is a fairly poor biolfuel source. Aren't sugar and other biofuels more efficient?

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    First, I was under the impression that biodiesel was, in general, a cleaner-burning fuel than gasoline or standard diesel. Am I wrong? Nothing against you, but I get annoyed every time someone dismisses something that's environmentally friendlier just because it's not battling global warming.

    It's cool. The whole environment isn't about global warming.

    Biodiesel combustion also releases toxic particulates at higher levels than gasoline, is less energy dense and releases more nitrous oxide on combustion - which contributes to smog.
    Second, even if it's environmentally neutral, isn't it a good idea to move towards a fuel source that's less reliant on oil and more fuel efficient besides? Diesel engines >> gasoline engines when it comes to gas mileage, right?

    I don't believe biodiesel gets as good a gas mileage. That the money paid for it stays in America instead of funding Hugo Chavez and less directly the Russians, Iranians, Libyans and Saudis is something that would recommend it. However, the demand for agricultural space to grow the crops necessary is already spiking world food prices and causing hunger riots in places like Egypt. I guess it depends on whether you think that is a long term trend that helps or hurts our long term security interests.
    I can see how if we'd need to completely restructure our economy around biodiesel how it might be a poor idea, but diesel is already a well-established technology, is the standard for many industries, and could be expanded in automobiles, too. I'm not seeing a huge reason to not go with it.

    I'd be extremely happy to jump on board with it if it were collected from algae instead of agriculture. That would negate a lot of the problems from my point of view.

    Speaker on
  • Options
    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2008
    Superdelegates weighing in with their state is an okay idea, but in some cases impeded by the fact the primaries were a proportional race and, for example, if every Texan superdelegate said, "Well, Clinton 'won' Texas, so we're going to go with her," it's patently disingenuous.

    Oboro on
    words
This discussion has been closed.