Seems to me that every member of the Mormon church speaks for themselves.
But the Church also speaks, and it has very often been in a bigoted voice that doesn't reflect well on it's members.
So when are the members going to speak back to the church and actually do something about it. I think that's what a lot of people would like to see, some action to change the Mormon church from preaching and even FUNDING hatred. Action that originates from the inside. If it doesn't, it's only going to strangle itself with it's words.
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
I consider myself fairly progressive. I am also LDS. I also have MANY friends who are LDS and very liberal. I think gay/lesbian/transgender people should have all the same rights as everyone else. It may be seen as purely semantic, but to me its important, that the institution of marriage be seperate from those rights. Give them all of the benefits (and drawbacks) that come with the idea of marraige, but call it something else. I am 100% positive that is all that that the Church is actually fighting for at this point. Tell me how everyone who thinks that homosexuals should have equal rights have now left the church?
Seems to me that every member of the Mormon church speaks for themselves.
But the Church also speaks, and it has very often been in a bigoted voice that doesn't reflect well on it's members.
So when are the members going to speak back to the church and actually do something about it. I think that's what a lot of people would like to see, some action to change the Mormon church from preaching and even FUNDING hatred. Action that originates from the inside. If it doesn't, it's only going to strangle itself with it's words.
From official statement of the LDS Church:
"Allegations of bigotry or persecution made against the Church were and are simply wrong. The Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians. Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches. "
EDIT: I thought this shit was done around page 35ish or so. OHnohoho. I come back to work and its ballooned 20ish more pages. I haven't responded to half the wrong fucked up statements I saw on my way to this page, but I am responding to some of the more recent ignorant statements.
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
I consider myself fairly progressive. I am also LDS. I also have MANY friends who are LDS and very liberal. I think gay/lesbian/transgender people should have all the same rights as everyone else. It may be seen as purely semantic, but to me its important, that the institution of marriage be seperate from those rights. Give them all of the benefits (and drawbacks) that come with the idea of marraige, but call it something else. I am 100% positive that is all that that the Church is actually fighting for at this point. Tell me how everyone who thinks that homosexuals should have equal rights have now left the church?
Seems to me that every member of the Mormon church speaks for themselves.
But the Church also speaks, and it has very often been in a bigoted voice that doesn't reflect well on it's members.
So when are the members going to speak back to the church and actually do something about it. I think that's what a lot of people would like to see, some action to change the Mormon church from preaching and even FUNDING hatred. Action that originates from the inside. If it doesn't, it's only going to strangle itself with it's words.
From official statement of the LDS Church:
"Allegations of bigotry or persecution made against the Church were and are simply wrong. The Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians. Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches. "
No one thinks they've all left the church. The fact of the matter is that the church still officially believes that homosexuality is a sickness that can be cured. Something that is fundamentally offensive to homosexuals and allies.
Oh, and to Obifett as well, they have also funded, massively, efforts to minimize homosexual rights. What's the expression? Actions speak louder than words?
Listen, Phonehand, I grew up in a town with a very strong Mormon presence. A lot of my friends in middle school and high school were Mormons. Yet, to a person, the ones who ended up progressive people, believing in the fundamental equality of human beings, that homosexuals are entitled to equal rights, etc., have left the church. The ones who haven't come to those conclusions are the ones that are still members. And I'm not saying that they're terrible people or anything; no, if anything, they're really nice people (almost all of the Mormons I've met have been incredibly nice). I'm just saying that their support of the church and the policies it represents makes them intolerant douchebags. Very nice intolerant douchebags, but intolerant douchebags nonetheless.
I consider myself fairly progressive. I am also LDS. I also have MANY friends who are LDS and very liberal. I think gay/lesbian/transgender people should have all the same rights as everyone else. It may be seen as purely semantic, but to me its important, that the institution of marriage be seperate from those rights. Give them all of the benefits (and drawbacks) that come with the idea of marraige, but call it something else. I am 100% positive that is all that that the Church is actually fighting for at this point. Tell me how everyone who thinks that homosexuals should have equal rights have now left the church?
Seems to me that every member of the Mormon church speaks for themselves.
But the Church also speaks, and it has very often been in a bigoted voice that doesn't reflect well on it's members.
So when are the members going to speak back to the church and actually do something about it. I think that's what a lot of people would like to see, some action to change the Mormon church from preaching and even FUNDING hatred. Action that originates from the inside. If it doesn't, it's only going to strangle itself with it's words.
From official statement of the LDS Church:
"Allegations of bigotry or persecution made against the Church were and are simply wrong. The Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians. Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches. "
No one thinks they've all left the church. The fact of the matter is that the church still officially believes that homosexuality is a sickness that can be cured. Something that is fundamentally offensive to homosexuals and allies.
Except the guy I quoted. He said that any progressive person has left the church. So, yeah.
And the LDS church has never said (please find me a quote by an Apostle or Presidency) that homosexuality can be cured. They take the stance that its a sin. They also take the stance (as I have seen in my own ward, aka church building) that EVERYONE should be loved and welcomed regardless of what they have done or are currently doing. Does that mean they can be a full member of the church? No, just like if you are smoking or drinking or looking at porn. But does that mean the church teaches its members to shun them? No, quite the opposite as Charity, or the pure love of Christ, means to love all and help all.
The problem is that there are alot of generalizations in this thread that do not actually take into account the ACTUAL teachings of the church and its leaders.
Oh, and to Obifett as well, they have also funded, massively, efforts to minimize homosexual rights. What's the expression? Actions speak louder than words?
Um, nope. They just didn't want it to be called marriage. I know that may seem trivial to some, but it matters to churches and those who find the institution of marriage to be EXTREMELY sacred.
If a proposition came out that gave them civil unions or something else that gave them the same rights as marraige but was legally different, I KNOW the church would do nothing to stop it. So their purpose in supporting Prop 8 was to defend marraige, not minimize homosexual rights.
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
Oh, and to Obifett as well, they have also funded, massively, efforts to minimize homosexual rights. What's the expression? Actions speak louder than words?
Um, nope. They just didn't want it to be called marriage. I know that may seem trivial to some, but it matters to churches and those who find the institution of marriage to be EXTREMELY sacred.
If a proposition came out that gave them civil unions or something else that gave them the same rights as marraige but was legally different, I KNOW the church would do nothing to stop it. So their purpose in supporting Prop 8 was to defend marraige, not minimize homosexual rights.
Thats fine, then don't let gays get married in a Mormon church and mind your own business should they get married somewhere else.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
They have every right to defend marriage within the Mormon church. They are overstepping their bounds when they try to dictate what a marriage means to everyone else. I could go down to the courthouse and get just as married as I would be if the ceremony is done in a church.
Marathon on
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
to the church, being sealed in the temple is so so so different from just being married.
the mormon church has their own ceremonies that gays will never touch, they don't even use normal weddings, why not let homosexuals get married like everyone else.
no worries, gays won't become gods, they cannot be sealed, they won't enter the celestial kingdom, so why deny them marriage.
i mean, the mormon church does not even consider you really truly married unless you are sealed in the temple, so all of this is hot air being blown out their asses.
to marry something means to join it, and giving them a different word is beyond petty. it is telling children who take cues on how to treat people from their parents 'these people are worth less'
Have we regressed to dickwaving join dates here? Did we merge with the GameFAQs forum?
that is what i had been wondering
Early 2005, bitch, get that weak stuff outta here!
i mean, that phoney guy was so upset that i didn't know who he was, poor lil duder
I don't understand why you just had to mention the fact that you had no idea who he was
because how often does a dude you've never spoken to before try and chew your nuts off beyond all logical reason. the dude thought i made one mistake, and sat on it and cried for hours, it was so silly
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Let's not start a who's more now contest guys. We all know Manny would smoke your asses.
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
They have every right to defend marriage within the Mormon church. They are overstepping their bounds when they try to dictate what a marriage means to everyone else. I could go down to the courthouse and get just as married as I would be if the ceremony is done in a church.
How is that overstepping one's bounds? We live in this country and therefore any laws passed WILL affect us. That's like saying if you aren't 80yrs old then you shouldn't vote on any law that affects social security. Just cuz it doesn't affect us directly doesn't mean that a person should allow something they don't agree with to pass within their own country. What's the point of democracy then if EVERYONE's voice isn't allowed to be heard on every issue?
the argument that the church supports marriage-related legal rights for homosexuals but not the right to legally marry is pretty nice-sounding until you realize it's fucking stupid
the religious definition of marriage already differs from the legal definition, and no one was voting on expanding the religious definition
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
They have every right to defend marriage within the Mormon church. They are overstepping their bounds when they try to dictate what a marriage means to everyone else. I could go down to the courthouse and get just as married as I would be if the ceremony is done in a church.
How is that overstepping one's bounds? We live in this country and therefore any laws passed WILL affect us. That's like saying if you aren't 80yrs old then you shouldn't vote on any law that affects social security. Just cuz it doesn't affect us directly doesn't mean that a person should allow something they don't agree with to pass within their own country. What's the point of democracy then if EVERYONE's voice isn't allowed to be heard on every issue?
Because Mormons can get married regardless of whether or not the gay folks in California can tie the knot
So no this passing really did not affect them except that they got to hi5 over it
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
They have every right to defend marriage within the Mormon church. They are overstepping their bounds when they try to dictate what a marriage means to everyone else. I could go down to the courthouse and get just as married as I would be if the ceremony is done in a church.
How is that overstepping one's bounds? We live in this country and therefore any laws passed WILL affect us. That's like saying if you aren't 80yrs old then you shouldn't vote on any law that affects social security. Just cuz it doesn't affect us directly doesn't mean that a person should allow something they don't agree with to pass within their own country. What's the point of democracy then if EVERYONE's voice isn't allowed to be heard on every issue?
hey, do you read and study your doctrine and covenants?
i already quoted this earlier in the thread, but you're behind.
D&C 134:9
9. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Marathon, whether you like it or not members of a church have every right to vote on something. It's the lying and misleading what prop 8 actually was that should be in question.
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
They have every right to defend marriage within the Mormon church. They are overstepping their bounds when they try to dictate what a marriage means to everyone else. I could go down to the courthouse and get just as married as I would be if the ceremony is done in a church.
How is that overstepping one's bounds? We live in this country and therefore any laws passed WILL affect us. That's like saying if you aren't 80yrs old then you shouldn't vote on any law that affects social security. Just cuz it doesn't affect us directly doesn't mean that a person should allow something they don't agree with to pass within their own country. What's the point of democracy then if EVERYONE's voice isn't allowed to be heard on every issue?
Because we have this little thing called the first amendment. A law could get passed today that allowed homosexuals to get married and have all the same rights as a heterosexual couple and the Mormon church could still refuse to marry them, because they can't be forced to marry them if it is against the teachings of that particular church. So it's them overstepping their bounds because the law would do absolutely nothing to them.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
The first amendment also protects the right of church members to voice their opinion on issues.
Marathon, whether you like it or not members of a church have every right to vote on something. It's the lying and misleading what prop 8 actually was that should be in question.
i thought marathon was coming from the angle that they have every right but not any sort of consistent argument for banning gay marriage when they claim to support a separation of church and state
SithDrummer on
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
but the whole "separate but equal" thing is still insulting.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
to the church, being sealed in the temple is so so so different from just being married.
the mormon church has their own ceremonies that gays will never touch, they don't even use normal weddings, why not let homosexuals get married like everyone else.
no worries, gays won't become gods, they cannot be sealed, they won't enter the celestial kingdom, so why deny them marriage.
i mean, the mormon church does not even consider you really truly married unless you are sealed in the temple, so all of this is hot air being blown out their asses.
to marry something means to join it, and giving them a different word is beyond petty. it is telling children who take cues on how to treat people from their parents 'these people are worth less'
Yep. And nope. You're right that there are certain ceremonies most people will never be involved in in this life. BUT, the idea of marriage doesn't only contain temple marriage. The traditional family and the idea of marriage is what is trying to be defended here. That extends to those even not of our faith or of any faith at all. The church would LOVE and not lift a finger to fight (not sure if they would/wouldn't support, but I know ALOT of the members would) any law trying to be passed that gave gays/lesbians/transgender people the same rights found within marriage as long as it isn't considered marriage. The family, is found eternally (we believe there is a Heavenly Father and Mother) and as an eternal principle must be defended on the Earth. Its not hateful or anything against the gay community, its a defense of something we find sacred that we feel is being attacked.
Marathon, whether you like it or not members of a church have every right to vote on something. It's the lying and misleading what prop 8 actually was that should be in question.
Of course they have every right to vote on it. But like I said the church is overstepping its place when it tries to dictate their definition of marriage onto the rest of the public.
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FandyienBut Otto, what about us? Registered Userregular
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this argument is really making me second-guess my decision to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
IT IS TEARING ME APART
But the Church also speaks, and it has very often been in a bigoted voice that doesn't reflect well on it's members.
So when are the members going to speak back to the church and actually do something about it. I think that's what a lot of people would like to see, some action to change the Mormon church from preaching and even FUNDING hatred. Action that originates from the inside. If it doesn't, it's only going to strangle itself with it's words.
Secret Satan
Hey, way to be a huge douche.
I consider myself fairly progressive. I am also LDS. I also have MANY friends who are LDS and very liberal. I think gay/lesbian/transgender people should have all the same rights as everyone else. It may be seen as purely semantic, but to me its important, that the institution of marriage be seperate from those rights. Give them all of the benefits (and drawbacks) that come with the idea of marraige, but call it something else. I am 100% positive that is all that that the Church is actually fighting for at this point. Tell me how everyone who thinks that homosexuals should have equal rights have now left the church?
From official statement of the LDS Church:
"Allegations of bigotry or persecution made against the Church were and are simply wrong. The Church’s opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians. Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches. "
EDIT: I thought this shit was done around page 35ish or so. OHnohoho. I come back to work and its ballooned 20ish more pages. I haven't responded to half the wrong fucked up statements I saw on my way to this page, but I am responding to some of the more recent ignorant statements.
No one thinks they've all left the church. The fact of the matter is that the church still officially believes that homosexuality is a sickness that can be cured. Something that is fundamentally offensive to homosexuals and allies.
Secret Satan
holy shit, outer darkness
Secret Satan
Except the guy I quoted. He said that any progressive person has left the church. So, yeah.
And the LDS church has never said (please find me a quote by an Apostle or Presidency) that homosexuality can be cured. They take the stance that its a sin. They also take the stance (as I have seen in my own ward, aka church building) that EVERYONE should be loved and welcomed regardless of what they have done or are currently doing. Does that mean they can be a full member of the church? No, just like if you are smoking or drinking or looking at porn. But does that mean the church teaches its members to shun them? No, quite the opposite as Charity, or the pure love of Christ, means to love all and help all.
The problem is that there are alot of generalizations in this thread that do not actually take into account the ACTUAL teachings of the church and its leaders.
Um, nope. They just didn't want it to be called marriage. I know that may seem trivial to some, but it matters to churches and those who find the institution of marriage to be EXTREMELY sacred.
If a proposition came out that gave them civil unions or something else that gave them the same rights as marraige but was legally different, I KNOW the church would do nothing to stop it. So their purpose in supporting Prop 8 was to defend marraige, not minimize homosexual rights.
Marriage isn't yours, religion! it was around before you and will be around after you! give it back!
that is what i had been wondering
Early 2005, bitch, get that weak stuff outta here!
2008! I win right? Bigger is better....
i mean, that phoney guy was so upset that i didn't know who he was, poor lil duder
Thats fine, then don't let gays get married in a Mormon church and mind your own business should they get married somewhere else.
This is very true, but that doesn't mean they are wrong for finding the institution of Marriage sacred and therefore finding it necessary to defend it. Within the LDS church, the act of being married in the temple is the highest and most important ordinance you will ever perform in the church. Finding your eternal companion and being "sealed" (aka married but with eternal implications) is the last ordinance you need on this earth to ensure your progression in the next. Why shouldn't the church defend the institution of marriage?
"institution of marriage"
They have every right to defend marriage within the Mormon church. They are overstepping their bounds when they try to dictate what a marriage means to everyone else. I could go down to the courthouse and get just as married as I would be if the ceremony is done in a church.
He's more upset that you don't fully understand his cult.
to the church, being sealed in the temple is so so so different from just being married.
the mormon church has their own ceremonies that gays will never touch, they don't even use normal weddings, why not let homosexuals get married like everyone else.
no worries, gays won't become gods, they cannot be sealed, they won't enter the celestial kingdom, so why deny them marriage.
i mean, the mormon church does not even consider you really truly married unless you are sealed in the temple, so all of this is hot air being blown out their asses.
to marry something means to join it, and giving them a different word is beyond petty. it is telling children who take cues on how to treat people from their parents 'these people are worth less'
I don't understand why you just had to mention the fact that you had no idea who he was
because how often does a dude you've never spoken to before try and chew your nuts off beyond all logical reason. the dude thought i made one mistake, and sat on it and cried for hours, it was so silly
How is that overstepping one's bounds? We live in this country and therefore any laws passed WILL affect us. That's like saying if you aren't 80yrs old then you shouldn't vote on any law that affects social security. Just cuz it doesn't affect us directly doesn't mean that a person should allow something they don't agree with to pass within their own country. What's the point of democracy then if EVERYONE's voice isn't allowed to be heard on every issue?
the religious definition of marriage already differs from the legal definition, and no one was voting on expanding the religious definition
whooooops.jpg
Because Mormons can get married regardless of whether or not the gay folks in California can tie the knot
So no this passing really did not affect them except that they got to hi5 over it
i already quoted this earlier in the thread, but you're behind.
D&C 134:9
9. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.
Because we have this little thing called the first amendment. A law could get passed today that allowed homosexuals to get married and have all the same rights as a heterosexual couple and the Mormon church could still refuse to marry them, because they can't be forced to marry them if it is against the teachings of that particular church. So it's them overstepping their bounds because the law would do absolutely nothing to them.
Yep. And nope. You're right that there are certain ceremonies most people will never be involved in in this life. BUT, the idea of marriage doesn't only contain temple marriage. The traditional family and the idea of marriage is what is trying to be defended here. That extends to those even not of our faith or of any faith at all. The church would LOVE and not lift a finger to fight (not sure if they would/wouldn't support, but I know ALOT of the members would) any law trying to be passed that gave gays/lesbians/transgender people the same rights found within marriage as long as it isn't considered marriage. The family, is found eternally (we believe there is a Heavenly Father and Mother) and as an eternal principle must be defended on the Earth. Its not hateful or anything against the gay community, its a defense of something we find sacred that we feel is being attacked.
Love when folks say that
Of course they have every right to vote on it. But like I said the church is overstepping its place when it tries to dictate their definition of marriage onto the rest of the public.
Please point out to me where I said they have no right to vote on it?