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[Martial Arts & MMA] 4 - UFC is (still) Rigged
B:L
I've done worse.Registered User regular
I've done worse.Registered User regular
Also the Fedor Appreciation thread.
Click link for hueg gif
Welcome to the Martial Arts and MMA thread. Though feel free to discuss martial arts that arent part of MMA. When I get some time today, I'll edit this with a brief run down about various martial arts one is likely to see in MMA, and a general martial arts FAQ for those new to the thing.
Stuff that will go well in this thread
- Talking about an MMA, Boxing, Grappling, or Kickboxing competition
- Talking about training any martial art
- Discussing techniques from various martial arts
Things that will go poorly
- Talking about how your systema/krav maga/whatever is "the real thing" and "Deadly" and "For the street, not a mat in a sport"
- Telling us about how Chi is real
- Telling us that your style really is deadly.
- No really guys, my stuff is deadly.
- Telling us that a style really is a joke. (the no-Johnny-Cache rule)
- Telling us that grappling is ______ (Pick one: Gay, stupid, useless, not effective)
- Mindless Bruce Lee fanboyism
- Mindless Bruce Lee hating
Lets keep this mature, and in good fun. Dont go crazy if someone makes a gay joke about jiu jitsu, and dont go raging when someone says "gracie bjj, moar liek gaycie bj"
MMA and general Martial Arts rundown: (More to come)
Aikido:
Aikido (合気道, aikidō?) is a Japanese martial art developed by Morihei Ueshiba as a synthesis of his martial studies, philosophy, and religious beliefs. Aikido is often translated as "the Way of unifying (with) life energy" or as "the Way of harmonious spirit." Ueshiba's goal was to create an art that practitioners could use to defend themselves while also protecting their attacker from injury.
It utilizes a mix of Japanese jiujitsu and Chinese Chin-Na jointlocks to control the balance of an opponent and thus allow a throw or a lock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zis-54oW8
It utilizes a mix of Japanese jiujitsu and Chinese Chin-Na jointlocks to control the balance of an opponent and thus allow a throw or a lock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zis-54oW8
Wing Chun:
One of the most famous practitioners of Wing Chun, you might know his name. Wing Chun (or Ving Tsun) is a Chinese close-combat art that emphasizes efficient strikes and counterstrikes to vulnerable areas while maintaining strong body structure.
They also train utilizing a wooden dummy. Unlike a heavy bag that only focuses on power and rhythm, a wooden dummy simulates a human with limbs, and allows the practitioner to properly practice angles, positioning, footwork, and putting all of that together with speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LhRIk_yCQU
Tai Chi Chuan:
The gentle destructive art. One of the three internal art styles of China, along with Baguazhang and Xingyiquan. Not to be confused with Tai Chi Gong, which is practiced for relaxation and focus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4
But seriously, Tai Chi is an art that trains utilizing slow movements, but once perfected, its techniques are performed at lightning speed. Its circular form and techniques are used to stop and deflect killer blows.. The biggest downside is the time required to practice and learn these techniques to a practical level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4
But seriously, Tai Chi is an art that trains utilizing slow movements, but once perfected, its techniques are performed at lightning speed. Its circular form and techniques are used to stop and deflect killer blows.. The biggest downside is the time required to practice and learn these techniques to a practical level.
Pro Wrestling:
Some people call it fake. Because those people are dumb.
Pro wrestlers manage to not hurt their opponents by choice. But put them into a fighting situation and you can see where their rough and tumble techniques come from.
Famous pro wrestlers in MMA include Brock Lesnar and the Gracie Hunter, Kazushi Sakuraba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44E-lW3aYhM
Sambo:
You might know this man too. He cares not for who is the best pound for pound, but that he will pound faces in.
Sambo is the art of the Heavyweight MMA legend, Fedor Emelianenko. The word "Самбо" (Sambo) is an acronym of САМозащита Без Оружия (SAMozashchita Bez Oruzhiya), meaning "self-defense without weapons" in Russian. Sambo has its roots in Japanese judo and traditional folk styles of wrestling such as Armenian Koch, Georgian Chidaoba, Moldovan Trîntǎ, Tatar Köräş, Uzbek Kurash, Mongolian Khapsagay and Azerbaijani Gulesh.
The founders of Sambo were Vasili Oshchepkov (who died during the political purges of 1937 for refusing to deny his education in judo under its founder Kano Jigoro) and Viktor Spiridonov. They independently developed two different styles, both with the same name. Spiridonov's style was a soft, Aikido-like system developed after he was maimed during World War I. Anatoly Kharlampiev, a student of Victor Spiridonov, is often officially recognized as the founder of Sport Sambo.
(Yes, Combat Sambo is essentially encompasses an Aikido-like style.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5pQSwdSKK0
Jeet Kune Do:
The idea of Jeet Kune Do is considered the forerunner of modern MMA. But it was really just a marketing tool created by Bruce Lee just before he passed away, combining his relatively minor martial arts experience with a pamphlet on fencing and a booklet on boxing to create a new marketable style. Later students tried to turn it into a real style with Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do.
Really, the mixing of martial arts has been evident throughout history, when O-Sensei travelled to China and studied grappling techniques to form Aikido in Japan.
Really, the mixing of martial arts has been evident throughout history, when O-Sensei travelled to China and studied grappling techniques to form Aikido in Japan.
Judo
In the late 1800s a Japanese fellow named Kano took the massive but dwindling art of jujitsu and reformed it. He decided that it should be about maximzing the efficiencty of your motions, to use concepts like leverage instead of strength against your opponent. He tossed away most of jujitsu, and systemized the rest, making it clear what technique was useful in a given position. He got rid of the deadly techniques, so that almost all judo moves can be performed full power in practice without seriously injuring your training partner. He even pioneered colored belts as a ranking system.
The primary focus of judo is its throws. These involve clinching, moving your opponent off balance and then throwing/tripping your opponent in a way that involves very little strength, and is effective against larger and stronger opponents. The ground phase features pins, joint locks and choke submissions. Judo is a highly popular martial art that is practiced all over the world and is an olympic sport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFM-xRKbSec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be-BoM-WokY
The primary focus of judo is its throws. These involve clinching, moving your opponent off balance and then throwing/tripping your opponent in a way that involves very little strength, and is effective against larger and stronger opponents. The ground phase features pins, joint locks and choke submissions. Judo is a highly popular martial art that is practiced all over the world and is an olympic sport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFM-xRKbSec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be-BoM-WokY
Brazillian Jujitsu (BJJ)
In the first part of the 20th century, Judo was being spread to the world. One of the places where it was taught was Brazil, to the Gracie family. The Gracies used this art in street fighting, and began to modify to their own ends. Helio, who was too young and weak to take part in training, none-the-less watched intently. He then began to practice the art himself, and modified it to suit his small frame. Importantly, he found that he was always being tossed to the ground and pinned. So he spent a great deal of time developing techniques to fight off his back. "Gracie Jujitsu" was shown off in many fights and tournaments in Brazil, and really took off when a man named Royce Gracie was chosen to show his skills to the US in the first Ultimate Fighting Challenge in 1993.
BJJ and judo are essentially two sides of the same coin. They share a great many techniques in common. Judo has its focus in standing throws, but also has a ground control and submission element. BJJ focuses heavily on ground control and submissions, but also contains the full variety of judo throws. The difference is primarily one of emphasis. BJJ, much like judo allows someone to use leverage and their opponents own strength against them. BJJ has an extremely wide variety of techniques, including submissions, sweeps (getting someone off of you) and moves intended to gain a superior, controlling position against the opponent. Has exploded in popularity in recent years due to its role in the UFC and MMA as a whole, this martial art is also evolving very rapidly, now featuring no-gi and MMA (ie involving strikes) specific moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UplwNdQQpdw
BJJ and judo are essentially two sides of the same coin. They share a great many techniques in common. Judo has its focus in standing throws, but also has a ground control and submission element. BJJ focuses heavily on ground control and submissions, but also contains the full variety of judo throws. The difference is primarily one of emphasis. BJJ, much like judo allows someone to use leverage and their opponents own strength against them. BJJ has an extremely wide variety of techniques, including submissions, sweeps (getting someone off of you) and moves intended to gain a superior, controlling position against the opponent. Has exploded in popularity in recent years due to its role in the UFC and MMA as a whole, this martial art is also evolving very rapidly, now featuring no-gi and MMA (ie involving strikes) specific moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UplwNdQQpdw
Sumo:
Talk about throwing your weight around! Don't let the flabs of fat fool you, underneath it is pure muscle.
Sumo (相撲, sumō?) is a competitive contact sport where a wrestler (rikishi) attempts to force another wrestler out of a circular ring (dohyō) or to touch the ground with anything other than the soles of the feet. The sport originated in Japan, the only country where it is practiced professionally.
With judo-like techniques using leverage, even a smaller sumo can unbalance and throw a larger sumo out of the ring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73f0_izSNHg
Sumo (相撲, sumō?) is a competitive contact sport where a wrestler (rikishi) attempts to force another wrestler out of a circular ring (dohyō) or to touch the ground with anything other than the soles of the feet. The sport originated in Japan, the only country where it is practiced professionally.
With judo-like techniques using leverage, even a smaller sumo can unbalance and throw a larger sumo out of the ring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73f0_izSNHg
Savate:
(there are many kickboxing styles such as Muay Thai and Silat, but let's just cover one for now)
Savate, also known as boxe française, French boxing, French Kickboxing or French Footfighting, is a French martial art which uses the hands and feet as weapons combining elements of western boxing with graceful kicking techniques. Only foot kicks are allowed unlike some systems such as Muay Thai and Silat which allow the use of the knees or shins. "Savate" is a French word for "old shoe". Savate is perhaps the only style of kickboxing in which the fighters habitually wear shoes. A male practitioner of Savate is called a Savateur while a female is called a Savateuse.
Jean Claude Van Damme...doesn't practice Savate, but he's taking his ballet into MMA and he's going to kick Bison's ass so hard that the next Bison wannabe is going to feel it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YDuSLXcX8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToaGHJvO2Xw
The Ultimate Fighter 10 premieres tomorrow, Wednesday September 16th, along with a free UFC Fight Night.
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Fighter_10
Fighters:
Team Rashad
Jon Madsen, James McSweeney, Matt Mitrione, Roy Nelson, Brendan Schaub, Darrill Schoonover, Mike Wessel, Justin Wren
Team Rampage
Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson, Zak Jensen, Marcus Jones, Scott Junk, Demico Rogers, Wes Shivers, Wes Sims, Abe Wagner
Kimbo Slice: The Street Brawling Youtube Star.
Roy Nelson: Former IFL heavyweight champ who is known for his unathletic looking build aka HE FAT
Matt Mitrione: Former NFL player and MMA new comer. Trains with UFC fighter Jake ‘the Blanket’ O’Brien. Needs to STFU or he'll run out of gas again.
[strike]Wes Sims:[/strike] Went 0-3 in the UFC a few years ago, but never got much further. Beat Frank Mir twice but got choked out by a fat guy.
Marcus Jones: NFL defensive end from 1996 to 2002. Training MMA since 2007. DARKNESS.
[strike]Wes Shivers:[/strike] Former NFL player and a late replacement for Rex Richards, also a former NFL pla-*GASP* Hold on... a sec... *WHEEZE*
Justin Wren: A very large man who has an impressive wrestling background. Was able to make Wes Sims shut up for a short duration. A swing and a miss against Roy Nelson.
[strike]Mike Wessel:[/strike] Wessel made it into the UFC by accepting a fight on a week’s notice. He lost, but was given a spot on TUF as a consolation prize. UFC gave him a hand, his opponent gave him an arm back.
[strike]Zak Jensen:[/strike] Wrestler out of Minnesota who has a 7-3 record with losses to TUF alumni Brad Imes and Mike Whitehead. Really chokes.
[strike]Abe Wagner: [/strike]An unknown fighter out of Nebraska with a 6-3 pro record, likes bleeding all over.
[strike]Scott Junk:[/strike] Another fighter who was unsuccessful first time the UFC gave him a shot back in 2007. Lives up to his name.
Jon Madsen: A brand new fighter out of Matt Hughes’ gym, total asshole as expected. Got a taste of his own medicine.
Darrill Sch(. Y .)nover: A US Army veteran who boasts a 10-0 pro and 5-0 amateur record and his measurements are 42-32-38.
Brendan Schaub: Trains out of Greg Jackson’s gym and is a Shane Carwin sparring partner. His beast form is an Anaconda snake.
[strike]Deminico Rogers:[/strike] Snakes. Why did it have to be snakes?
James McSweeney: 3-4 fighter from London, trains with Greg Jacks-*GASP WHEEZE* Bloody... hell... *GACK*
Quarterfinal Matchups:
Roy Nelson vs. Justin Wren
Winner: Roy Nelson via majority decision
Brendan Schaub vs. Jon Madsen
Winner: Brendan Schaub via KO (punches) in the 2nd round
James McSweeney vs. Matt Mitrione
Winner: James McSweeney via submission (rear naked choke) in the 1st round
Marcus Jones vs. Darrill Schoonover
Winner: Marcus Jones via KO (punches) in the 1st round
Semi-Finals:
Roy Nelson vs. James McSweeney
Winner: Roy Nelson via TKO (crucifix punches) in the 1st round
Marcus Jones vs. Brendan Schaub
Winner: Brendan Schaub via KO (punches) in the 1st round
Finals:
Roy Nelson vs. Brendan Schaub
Winner: Roy Nelson via KO! (punches) in the 1st round!
[size=+3]FATMAN WINS IT!!![/size]
Previous MMA Threads:
[MMA] 3
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Diaz beats Guillard by Submission. Guillard's ground game is a joke, and Diaz trains with some of the best MMA grapplers in the world.
Maynard beats Huerta by decision. Neither is good enough to finish the other, and both are good enough to avoid being finished. Neither is particularly good with submissions either.
Condit beats a nobody. And no one will be surprised.
Credeur over Quarry by submission. Tim's hands will be good enough to force Quarry into a shot, and Credeur is a beast on the ground.
Cantwell over Stann. Same as the first fight. Stann is a brawler, and Cantwell fights too smart a fight to engage him.
Nover beats Stout. How the hell is this fight not on the main card? Nover will come back from his loss to prove a point, but this one will be a good one.
Watch the finale of season 1, the finale of season 3, season 4, season 7, and season 8. The Season 1 finale had arguably the most important fight in UFC history. The rest are just entertaining.
Season 2 was pretty good, not too many stinkers IIRC. They literally just had a marathon of that this past weekend.
Season 3 is 'okay', don't really remember it.
Never watched Season 4.
I liked Seasons 5 and 6 alot, but I don't recall too many people here agreeing with that.
Don't remember much of Season 7.
Seasons 8 and 9 were 'okay'.
Reasonably, if only because you get 1 or 2 fights that aren't worthless a show. Some seasons (1-3) have produced more quality fighters than others (4, 6-7) and some are still developing but it introduces you to them in a way that a fight followed by four months of inactivity wouldn't
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
And agreed on the new title. Or at least change the OP so Kimbo has a Santa hat on.
Steam
The last fight was Shamrock/Franklin.
:P
Or I quit watching it because it could only go downhill from there one might say.
Steam
All I really have to say is that every time I visit my brother and we go drinking, we end up arguing about whether boxing is superior to MMA/UFC. He's a big UFC fan. I don't really care too much one way or another really, but I likes my boxing more I guess. Which is heresy apparently. Anyway, we've probably gotten drunk and argued about it half a dozen times by now. You'd think one of us would learn.
Like boxing, MMA, and wrestling.
Anybody argues, kick em in the crotch.
That'll win any argument.
Steam
does he self destruct?
I'd say you're both missing out. Boxing and MMA both offer different and unique products in the sports genre.
As a fan of boxing though, it's sometimes cringing to watch some of the sloppy striking in MMA and the inability of some fighters to keep their hands up and their chins down.
Nah, but I think if you punch him in one of his massive tits, he deflates like a balloon.
Steam
Wait, isn't that an illegal move?
No, but seriously, you don't get how real, and deadly, Chi is.
I think we just differ in that I don't understand why he's got a bunch of UFC DVDs, whereas he doesn't understand why I happily paid $50 to watch Manny knock the fuck out of Hatton in round 2 last May.
Steam
Sometimes
This way everybody can contribute with their favorites and they'll be much more descriptive....
it will be ease the hassle on the shoulders of the OP, and...
Why is Pro Wrestling on the list?
Some legit Japanese fighters actually got their start in Professional Wrestling.
Steam
I'm a bad person.
I saw some promo thing before he got beat by Mayweather, and he actually seemed like a decent guy. But yeah, Manny is the man, no argument there.
That's not a valid excuse at all. I bet you even Antonio Inoki would think that's blasphemy.
So did the Gracies until they met Kazushi Sakuraba.
What does that have to do with any thing? I thought we were talking about the validity of listing Professional Wrestling under Martial Arts?
Besides, wasn't it Sakuraba's already immense wrestling talent that helped him win? When he was in the professional wrestling business, the matches were pretty damn close to the real thing too.
I bet you even Kazushi Sakuraba would think listing Professional Wrestling under Martial Arts is blasphemy.
Kimbo wants to take your caterpillar and do bad things to it...
The kind that would make me contemplate taking some.
And I don't even drink alcohol.
It was an excuse to sneak in a Sakuraba highlight into the OP, really.
But if you have a problem with anything in the OP, talk with CangoFett. I basically copied his OP from the previous MMA thread.
I'll edit the title tomorrow to reflect TUF's airing, don't worry.
That fight was pretty stupid for several obvious reasons:
1) They were wearing helmets and big gloves - this means the punching power and accuracy is decreased greatly which means the bigger guy gets even more advantage
2) Shaq was hugging way way too much.
XBL Gametag: mailarde
Screen Digest LOL3RZZ
Does Krav really have any bearing on MMA? Do any of those styles? Why are they in the MMA op at all? And why doesn't the wing chun section mention it being total dogshit?
I host a podcast about movies.