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Icefrog (Dota guy) Announces VALVE project!!!!

DanraxDanrax Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Games and Technology
Is it just me or could this combination disrupt the very balance of space and time as we know it??

http://www.examiner.com/x-13320-Detroit-MMORPG-Examiner~y2009m10d5-Icefrog-announces-Valve-Project

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Posts

  • LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I misread that as "vulva" project at first and came in only to be disappointed. :(

    You can edit the title yourself. Click edit, then "Advanced."

    Lunker on
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  • thejazzmanthejazzman Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    This is super interesting but I dont think we're gonna get any details for quite a long while

    thejazzman on
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  • DanraxDanrax Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    thanks =)

    Danrax on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    LewieP on
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    When will people learn not to be happy abou Valve things?

    Valve time erodes your soul, being happy and antsy only makes it more miserable.

    Buttcleft on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    When will people learn not to be happy abou Valve things?

    As soon as they release a game that isn't amazing.

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  • thejazzmanthejazzman Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    You should be excited because potentially it's a valve game that is in some ways rpg/strategy based (since icefrog appeared to be saying this was directly a game that dota fans would be interested in)

    Even just the face that it's not an FPS based game (in all likelihood) in pretty engaging.

    thejazzman on
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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    When will people learn not to be happy abou Valve things?

    As soon as they release a game that isn't amazing.

    My comment is expressly made for the part you edited out.

    Buttcleft on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    When will people learn not to be happy abou Valve things?

    As soon as they release a game that isn't amazing.

    My comment is expressly made for the part you edited out.

    I know, I just felt like saying.

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  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    LewieP wrote: »
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    I THINK DOTA was the game that inspired that game that came out a month or two ago that made headlines about having more pirated copies in play than actual purchased copies. DemiGod, I think.

    Sheep on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Probably just means a Valve DotA clone in the distant future. Maybe it will actually be called DotA, maybe not, but I assume it'll be a new game unlike HoN.

    Zek on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Man, I hope it's not a DOTA clone. If anyone had the right to make a bunch of money off of DOTA (other than Blizz) it was Icefrog, but with all the DOTA clones currently coming out anything just starting development is going to seriously miss the boat.

    Unless it innovates something, rather than directly copying everything, like HoN.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    LewieP wrote: »
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    I've never played a videogame, ever. Why should I be excited about [insert really hyped up game here].

    Zombiemambo on
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  • Paradox ControlParadox Control Master MC Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    If you have no idea what Dota is, then you should go check out the OP in the HoN thread:
    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=101704
    But even that is a little lacking in description. Dota is like a weird halfbreed. Its mostly RTS, with a lot of Team Tactics and RPG gearing and leveling.

    But this could be really, really, interesting. If this winds up like Dota, with all the support and personality of TF2, this could be big. I wont be shocked when they brake free from what HoN or WC3: Dota is doing though. I think Valve might push IceFrog to brake the mold a little bit. I don't doubt that there will be a Dota map remake though, its almost mandatory. But at the same time, I can see them inventing new ways to play Dota and making it fun.

    I could also see them using this game as a way to take current HL2 and TF2 characters and through them in to some kind of wacky, smash-brothers-esk, battle. Imagen having Dota style remakes of The Spy VS. a Dota style Dog from HL!

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I hope it's not a Dota-type game, there's enough clones around already and there's going to be one for Starcraft 2 as well. I'd like to see something a little more original at this point.

    Not to mention that Dota games always have horrid communities.

    Slicer on
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    It bugs me that DOTA became so huge, while TOB (Tides of Blood) which came out roughly around the same time on battle.net and was a much better version of the same concept faded into obscurity.

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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    LewieP wrote: »
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    You're just sour because you probably won't be able to get it through Steam. <_<

    I'm honestly not that excited though. DotA is one of the must unbalanced things ever, so I don't consider "the DotA guy" a person of quality game developing.

    Henroid on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    This is great. Now if someone would just hire Toady One, man that would be awesome.

    P10 on
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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    This is great. Now if someone would just hire Toady One, man that would be awesome.

    Dwarf Fortress on Steam would rock my world. Sexually.

    Edit - Wait a sec, how come you haven't gotten your forum name fixed since that one maintenance? <_<

    Henroid on
  • Paradox ControlParadox Control Master MC Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    You're just sour because you probably won't be able to get it through Steam. <_<

    I'm honestly not that excited though. DotA is one of the must unbalanced things ever, so I don't consider "the DotA guy" a person of quality game developing.

    You have to think of Dota like a fighting game, there are going to be good match ups and bad match ups. When you start taking things out of a 1v1 context your going to have bad teams, good teams, and good teams fighting a good counter team.

    I wouldn't say Dota is perfectly balanced, But if your not making good choices when it comes to heros, or even ability's to start with, your probably going to put your self way behind. I don't think I've run in to a situation where a hero was just obviously imbalanced, and could carry his team by him self.

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • Paradox ControlParadox Control Master MC Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slicer wrote: »
    I hope it's not a Dota-type game, there's enough clones around already and there's going to be one for Starcraft 2 as well. I'd like to see something a little more original at this point.

    Not to mention that Dota games always have horrid communities.

    They wouldn't hire IceFrog if there not making a DOTA game.

    Paradox Control on
    \
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    It bugs me that DOTA became so huge, while TOB (Tides of Blood) which came out roughly around the same time on battle.net and was a much better version of the same concept faded into obscurity.

    ToB came out way after DotA. DotA by Eul was around for a pretty long while before DotA Allstars took over, and that was around for a while before ToB came out. And ToB wasn't any better, it was just different.

    That said I'm not so terribly excited by this. I think the AoS style of gameplay has been pretty thoroughly plowed between DotA, Demigod, LoL, and HoN. Just because some guy got hired by Valve doesn't mean he's going to make anything mind-blowing.

    FightTest on
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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    New Valve project: Due out November 2018. :lol:

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  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    DotA has become a much better game under Icefrog's development. You think DotA is unbalanced now, you should see the older DotA's. Just craziness everywhere.

    Hopefully Icefrog will find a clever way to deal with some of the negatives of AoS style games, namely the vast knowledge base required and the fact that matches can be 'decided' but still take 30+ minutes to play out to the end

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  • SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slicer wrote: »
    I hope it's not a Dota-type game, there's enough clones around already and there's going to be one for Starcraft 2 as well. I'd like to see something a little more original at this point.

    Not to mention that Dota games always have horrid communities.

    They wouldn't hire IceFrog if there not making a DOTA game.

    Perhaps he has an idea for something that's not just a dota clone! Or maybe not!

    It's really too early to say anything certain.

    Slicer on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    You're just sour because you probably won't be able to get it through Steam. <_<

    I'm honestly not that excited though. DotA is one of the must unbalanced things ever, so I don't consider "the DotA guy" a person of quality game developing.

    You have to think of Dota like a fighting game, there are going to be good match ups and bad match ups. When you start taking things out of a 1v1 context your going to have bad teams, good teams, and good teams fighting a good counter team.

    I wouldn't say Dota is perfectly balanced, But if your not making good choices when it comes to heros, or even ability's to start with, your probably going to put your self way behind. I don't think I've run in to a situation where a hero was just obviously imbalanced, and could carry his team by him self.

    I can understand and dig one character being good against another or two, and a different character is good against that one. But DotA is like, "Pick one of these four characters that rocks everyone else's shit." That's not "oh it's not perfectly balanced," it's way unbalanced. And the playerbase in it is one of the most aggressive and unwelcoming.

    Henroid on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slicer wrote: »
    Slicer wrote: »
    I hope it's not a Dota-type game, there's enough clones around already and there's going to be one for Starcraft 2 as well. I'd like to see something a little more original at this point.

    Not to mention that Dota games always have horrid communities.

    They wouldn't hire IceFrog if there not making a DOTA game.

    Perhaps he has an idea for something that's not just a dota clone! Or maybe not!

    It's really too early to say anything certain.

    When a dev is good at something, you hire them for their strong point. You don't pickup John Carmack and go, "Alright man you're a badass coder. We need you to draw some concept art. Here's a pencil and stack of paper."

    Henroid on
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    This is exciting less because of dota guy, more because Valve has something new in the works

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  • SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    Having not played, or really heard much about DOTA, why exactly should I be excited.

    Other than "It is a new Valve game" of course.

    You're just sour because you probably won't be able to get it through Steam. <_<

    I'm honestly not that excited though. DotA is one of the must unbalanced things ever, so I don't consider "the DotA guy" a person of quality game developing.

    You have to think of Dota like a fighting game, there are going to be good match ups and bad match ups. When you start taking things out of a 1v1 context your going to have bad teams, good teams, and good teams fighting a good counter team.

    I wouldn't say Dota is perfectly balanced, But if your not making good choices when it comes to heros, or even ability's to start with, your probably going to put your self way behind. I don't think I've run in to a situation where a hero was just obviously imbalanced, and could carry his team by him self.

    I can understand and dig one character being good against another or two, and a different character is good against that one. But DotA is like, "Pick one of these four characters that rocks everyone else's shit." That's not "oh it's not perfectly balanced," it's way unbalanced. And the playerbase in it is one of the most aggressive and unwelcoming.

    Doesn't help that with a hero roster that large it makes balance inherently difficult. Just thinking about the number of combinations alone is bad enough!

    I wouldn't trust someone like Blizzard to balance that stuff out, and they have access to tons of information about games played on their servers nowadays. A few guys? Hah, not a chance.
    Henroid wrote: »
    Slicer wrote: »
    Slicer wrote: »
    I hope it's not a Dota-type game, there's enough clones around already and there's going to be one for Starcraft 2 as well. I'd like to see something a little more original at this point.

    Not to mention that Dota games always have horrid communities.

    They wouldn't hire IceFrog if there not making a DOTA game.

    Perhaps he has an idea for something that's not just a dota clone! Or maybe not!

    It's really too early to say anything certain.

    When a dev is good at something, you hire them for their strong point. You don't pickup John Carmack and go, "Alright man you're a badass coder. We need you to draw some concept art. Here's a pencil and stack of paper."

    Well, he'll probably still be designing the game so that analogy doesn't really work well!

    I'm just saying, he might have more ideas than just the billionth Dota clone for the market.

    Slicer on
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    And the playerbase in it is one of the most aggressive and unwelcoming.

    It's a problem with the game type. If you play Counter-Strike or TF2 and you're fucking terrible nobody cares because a couple awesome people can carry a team of failures so nobody even notices if you suck. But if you suck at AoS style games you can completely sink your team.

    Not saying I talk shit in game, I never do (because srsly grow up, nerds), but I quite often mutter to myself and roll my eyes when my team is bad or someone does something really dumb. Not because I care that they're bad, but because it can ruin my game and end up wasting my time.

    FightTest on
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  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    FightTest wrote: »
    It bugs me that DOTA became so huge, while TOB (Tides of Blood) which came out roughly around the same time on battle.net and was a much better version of the same concept faded into obscurity.

    ToB came out way after DotA. DotA by Eul was around for a pretty long while before DotA Allstars took over, and that was around for a while before ToB came out. And ToB wasn't any better, it was just different.

    That said I'm not so terribly excited by this. I think the AoS style of gameplay has been pretty thoroughly plowed between DotA, Demigod, LoL, and HoN. Just because some guy got hired by Valve doesn't mean he's going to make anything mind-blowing.

    Magenta'd for disagreement. Realizing that is entirely subjective, I think the gameplay in DOTA is just poor in many places. First the game is extremely nooby unfriendly, so much so it feels like the developers went out of their way to make it so. Second the cooldown for powers is ridiculous, making the core combat attack and move, versus the attack move and special abilities combat that TOB has. Thirdly the game momentum in DOTA is such that is extremely difficult to recover from a poor start, making a lot of people drop rather then play a match to a forgone conclusion.

    Keep in mind I haven't played DOTA in a few years, so they may have fixed all this in the interim.

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  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm interested to see how Valve will market this. As a Portal/TF2 level price or a full priced game in its own right.

    BlindPsychic on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    I can understand and dig one character being good against another or two, and a different character is good against that one. But DotA is like, "Pick one of these four characters that rocks everyone else's shit." That's not "oh it's not perfectly balanced," it's way unbalanced. And the playerbase in it is one of the most aggressive and unwelcoming.
    There's 20-30 'good' heroes who get picked often. There's probably another 20-30 heroes who get picked in lower level competitive matches, or are picked specifically as a counter or part of a specific team strategy. There's 30 who suck and shouldn't be picked, and they are still picked because most people don't care and it really doesn't matter who your hero is outside of a competitive match, as long as your team composition overall isn't crap. This is out of 95 heroes.

    2/3s of the characters being competitive viable is good. That sounds about right for a fighting game, anyway.

    The playerbase thing is because DotA requires a huge base of knowledge, because to do well you should be familiar with the skills and item builds for all 95 heroes (in addition to basic competence, like, don't run alone into 5 enemies/last hit/denying skills). This means that it takes a long time for a new person to become proficient, and one bad person can absolutely ruin a team. But if they find some way to make the game easier to pick up and play, then I think most of the hostility will go away. HoN wasn't very hostile from my experience, other then stupid bullshit over PSR.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm pretty glad that League of Legends took out denying. It sounds like too much of a learning curve and attention grabber for too little actual addition to strategy. It's locked into DotA because of the Warcraft 3 engine, but I'd hope that no future games have it.

    jothki on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Denying isn't locked into Warcraft 3 or DotA. You might know that heroes are undeniable except for in certain circumstances? They did the same for creeps.

    Denying makes the early game more interesting, although it does add emphasis to heroes who can lane well, the way it's set up right now works quite well.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hmm, how exactly? Creep bounties only trigger on last hit as far as I'm aware, so to work around denying you'd need to completely replace the default bounty system with triggers. Which may very well have been done, I suppose.

    jothki on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Not getting the creep bounty because you didn't last hit isn't the same thing as denying. Denying means you last hit your own creep, which results in less experience for the enemy team (in addition to no bounty).

    But yes, there is a lot of weird trigger shenanigans in DotA. Which is how they turned off the ability to team attack except in certain case (i.e, denies).

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah, I was just saying that they had to work fairly hard against the Warcraft 3 engine to pull that stuff off. Designing a unique engine lets those issues be handled far more easily.

    jothki on
  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm guessing Valve has a lot of distilling to do on this, because I don't understand anything you guys are saying.

    BlindPsychic on
  • S.S. Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I remember in one version of DotA if you tried to deny a creep you would get hexed. Also the creeps were homicidal maniacs who would make beeline for the nearest hero in murderous rage if you so much as hovered your mouse over them. Good times!
    Henroid wrote: »
    But DotA is like, "Pick one of these four characters that rocks everyone else's shit." That's not "oh it's not perfectly balanced," it's way unbalanced.

    You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    S. on
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