I evidently know nothing about typography, so I can't even tell if this is any good or not any more. I guess I'd say I'm not that happy with how it turned out. :?
Don't be too hard on yourself dude, this is good work. It might not be the best typography ever, in the purists' sense, but hey, you've made a font! That's cool! I've never made one.
You've gone in and made conscious design decisions for each letter, how it relates to its neighbouring letter (kerning looks decent enough), and each letter clearly conforms to an overall aesthetic/concept.
The process is a success and you should treat it like one.
Whether the type is marketable/sellable or even "good" at this stage is immaterial. Being able to make judgement calls on 'good design' is something that comes with experience. But the more work like this you do the more understanding you will start to build up and a better designer you will become.
Keep at it mate, every bit of work you're not overly happy with is a step closer to work which you'll be really proud of! 8-)
the general issues are the balance and being consistent in the types of shapes and line weight you use. for instance: the base of your B is too big and comes over the mid-line (balance issue), the bottom of the T is really heavy in contrast to the top (weight issue), the curve on top of the F contradicts the straight line in the middle (shape issue), the curved bottom of the left leg on the R makes it so it doesn't "stand" steady and the right leg is too straight, the L curving up at the end puts it off balance, the top of the S contradicts the bottom, the triangular points on the Q and G contradict the entire type set, etc.
I don't know how to talk about typography in a technical sense, but I feel like an eye for the balance needed in graphic design is really hard to impart through teaching. I found my lettering just got better as I doodled in notebooks during classes and saw what worked and what didn't? but if you can't see how it's not working on your own, it's a dilemma as to how to show that, because (for me at least) graphic design is definitely not something I've learned through being taught. it relies on you being able to see what works and what doesn't.
srsizzy on
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
@Grenn: Thanks man. I've got me some self-esteem issues I need to work on; I'm kind of like NightDragon only without as many freak-out posts.
@srsizzy: Indeed. Looking back over it, there are a lot of changes I would have liked to have made. My main problem is time management, or rather the lack of. I'm gradually improving, but unfortunately not enough to redeem this assignment.
I quite like the figures but the brush you've used for the text has no character and loses any sense of impact because it's quite clearly a digital brush.
My advice: get an actual brush and some indian ink, DAUB that bastard good and proper, and scan it in.
Great! I just need 3-4 logo designs and some basic background/banner stuff for a myspace page. It's for my DJ/producing gig, Apres Garde. I want to make sort of a tongue and cheek reference to 1920's-30's avant garde design, so I was thinking something really Kandinsky / Bauhaus.
And I really love the work that The Zonders is doing.
First of all, thanks so much! Everything is well done. I think that the first one is by far the best. I think that it has the best design, reflects the feeling of the name and music the best, and has the best balance between the name and the imagery. Since I am just getting started and not well known, I really need the name "Apres Garde" So while I think the smaller, salmon typeface for "apres" is interesting, I think that it needs to be the same color and size of Garde. I do really like the salmon color, however, so perhaps it can be used for some ornamentation? Like a dot inside the D or something? Also, the square inside the record needs to be a dot. I love the abstract vinyl texture -- I think it's the best part of the design. I'd like to see more of that, and other abstract musical elements.
The second one is a very good homage, but I really just don't think that it works as a design for a musician. It just doesn't really send any messages.
I like where the third one is heading. As intended, I'm sure, it is the most visually striking of designs. What is behind apres garde? Is it just a placeholder? If not, it doesn't work. I like the way apres garde works with the record. For the rays, I think that they need to be less symmetrical -- the balance of the piece is far to obvious. I like the spill down from the record, but I think that, along with the rays, they need to have more "texture" to them, so that it doesn't look like it was just placed in in inDesign. (So many ins!) Also, I think the primary colors cannot be placed together with all the other colors separated. There's a lot to do on this, but I really like the form. Keep at it.
Again, thanks. I'm also looking for a banner sized design, something like a PA sig size, for instance.
Okay, so that's where we're up to. I need some criticism since I'm having a bit of trouble with this particular design. Keep in mind that these are experiments. Here's something I threw together this morning...
EDIT: Hm... The transition from CMYK to RGB has not done wonders for the colour scheme. I'll need to make I'm working in RGB from now on.
Flay, I think these may not be perfect, but they are incredible. However, it's almost 5am here (which is why things are probably so quiet). When I get some sleep in me, I'll give this a more discerning eye and let you know what I think, promise.
Im not a fan of angled text in design. i know graphic design is also art, in the sense that you want to create dynamic and visually interesting compositions (and yours DOES look really good), but ive always thought that text should always be placed in a practical way. My opinion is that text should only be aligned horizontally or (sometimes) vertically decending. Angled text should be used to direct the eye somewhere. On this, it directs the viewer no where.
Just my thoughts.
I think there's some strong design work here, and I'm quite sure that you will wind up with something both you and the client are happy with. I think the main thing I'm able to crit, however, is your process.
Firstly, I personally treat it as a bit of a 'no no' to post in-progress commissioned work online but I know you're still kinda starting out (and the client may well have given you permission).
It seems like you've just taken a stab at trying to 'come close' to what the client wants without really taking the time to focus in on what they really want the piece to achieve. If the process is along the lines of "Just send me some stuff and I'll tell you what I like" then you're just taking shots in the dark - which isn't value for money for you or your client.
Before I do any work at all for a client, I ask them a lot of questions to narrow down the scope and requirements of the project - how do they want the piece to feel; what do they want it to communicate, to convey? What do they need to use it for? Once a clear set of requirements are established, then you can start to come up with ideas which you have designed to fit those requirements.
Often a client hasn't really explored their own requirements in detail -- part of the design process should be you encouraging them to do that.
You should also find out beforehand all the additional little bits a client wants so you can price your work and grant usage rights appropriately. There shouldn't really be any "Oh, by the way, can you make the design into a quick forum sig for me? Thanks!" moments, where you're unsure how to broach the subject of additional costs (not saying this is exactly what has happened, just giving an example).
Another great thing about understanding what the client hopes to achieve is that you can then provide some alternative ideas on direction, which are still relevant to the project. A client should be paying you for your knowledge, ideas and advice - not just technical ability. You start off with a vaugue idea about referencing Kandinsky but once you've really explored the requirements you may find there are a few other great ideas to be had also. When sending over thumbnails to a client, I always like to throw in something a little different (but which still meets the brief) to show that I've considered other angles. I find that the first ideas you have a rarely the best.
That's my point, really, I can't see the ideas behind these other than "make it a Kandinsky reference". They would work perfectly well as MySpace backdrops but not so sure about them as logos. I think the reference could be much more eloquently wielded.
BUT, in all honestly, this is all stuff which comes from experience and confidence -- at the very least it's worth trying to build up a strong, designer's mindset though.
Strong work so far, just keep in mind what you need to focus on to fulfil the brief and keep it up. I enjoy seeing your work, mate, keep at it!
Im not a fan of angled text in design. i know graphic design is also art, in the sense that you want to create dynamic and visually interesting compositions (and yours DOES look really good), but ive always thought that text should always be placed in a practical way. My opinion is that text should only be aligned horizontally or (sometimes) vertically decending. Angled text should be used to direct the eye somewhere. On this, it directs the viewer no where.
Just my thoughts.
I'm a complete novice when it comes to typography. The angled/curved text is actually a reference to this image but I see what you mean about it not leading the eye anywhere.
(That said, I hesitate when using the word 'always' )
Firstly, I personally treat it as a bit of a 'no no' to post in-progress commissioned work online but I know you're still kinda starting out (and the client may well have given you permission).
Hm... Podly did give me permission, but I know I should be careful about these things. I thought I might be able to make an exception because he's a member of the forums, but even so...
It seems like you've just taken a stab at trying to 'come close' to what the client wants without really taking the time to focus in on what they really want the piece to achieve. If the process is along the lines of "Just send me some stuff and I'll tell you what I like" then you're just taking shots in the dark - which isn't value for money for you or your client.
Before I do any work at all for a client, I ask them a lot of questions to narrow down the scope and requirements of the project - how do they want the piece to feel; what do they want it to communicate, to convey? What do they need to use it for? Once a clear set of requirements are established, then you can start to come up with ideas which you have designed to fit those requirements.
Often a client hasn't really explored their own requirements in detail -- part of the design process should be you encouraging them to do that.
True, I am basically just throwing ideas around blindly. I did ask some questions back at the start of the process, but looking back on them they were more focused on the technical aspect rather than actually getting a feel for the comission. Here's what I asked:
Do you have an existing website or anything that I could look at to get some ideas and a feel for what I need to be desingning?
Do you have a particular deadline?
What dimensions (in pixels) do you need these to be in?
Is there any text or information involved?
What other information can you give me?
I'll have to work on both being more direct and more inquiring. The internet isn't the best way to communicate for these sort of things.
You should also find out beforehand all the additional little bits a client wants so you can price your work and grant usage rights appropriately. There shouldn't really be any "Oh, by the way, can you make the design into a quick forum sig for me? Thanks!" moments, where you're unsure how to broach the subject of additional costs (not saying this is exactly what has happened, just giving an example).
At the moment I'm just testing the waters of online commissions. Podly has admitted he can't afford to pay very much, and I'm completely okay with that because experience is just as valuable for me at the moment.
Another great thing about understanding what the client hopes to achieve is that you can then provide some alternative ideas on direction, which are still relevant to the project. A client should be paying you for your knowledge, ideas and advice - not just technical ability. You start off with a vaugue idea about referencing Kandinsky but once you've really explored the requirements you may find there are a few other great ideas to be had also. When sending over thumbnails to a client, I always like to throw in something a little different (but which still meets the brief) to show that I've considered other angles. I find that the first ideas you have a rarely the best.
That's my point, really, I can't see the ideas behind these other than "make it a Kandinsky reference". They would work perfectly well as MySpace backdrops but not so sure about them as logos. I think the reference could be much more eloquently wielded.
I'm kind of struggling in this respect, for this commission: partly out of uncertainty and confusion, and partly out of sluggishness. Hopefully, like you said, I'll improve on this through experience.
(That said, I hesitate when using the word 'always' )
Clearly you don't know a thing about design. You are NEVER allowed to break the rules :winky:
Your body of work is very strong, and i think the lack of feedback is that for people who knows little about graphic design, it is very hard to critique. You're studying design at uni right? If you're close to any of your tutors, or fellow students, maybe send it to them and ask for their feedback.
winter_combat_knight on
0
Options
Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
Yeah, guys, Flay has my permission to post whatever he wants in here.
I really really really like the new take on the vinyl one. There doesn't seem to be a cohesion with the name and the design, however, don't seem to work together. They should emphasize each other.
Also, another reference besides the early 20th century bauhaus / constructivist (to play on "apres garde" instead of "avant garde) is the work that The Zonders have done. I really like their combination of 80's retro and futurism, and they design for a lot of bands that are stylistically similar to my music.
There doesn't seem to be a cohesion with the name and the design, however, don't seem to work together. They should emphasize each other.
I see what you mean. Right now I'm trying to work out a way I can get the same lines that appear on the vinyl to follow the stroke of the letters so I can integrate the two, though I haven't figured out how just yet. (Does anyone know how I might do this?)
Also, another reference besides the early 20th century bauhaus / constructivist (to play on "apres garde" instead of "avant garde) is the work that The Zonders have done. I really like their combination of 80's retro and futurism, and they design for a lot of bands that are stylistically similar to my music.
I'm trying to take some influences from their covers, but the two styles aren't particularly compatible. I'll just need to do some more experimentation.
Liking how you incoorporated the type with the logo disk. Have you tried other fonts? Im thinking the font style is a bit hard to read. I keep reading it as 'Press Grade'.
EDIT: Maybe im reasding it wrong because the 'P' in Apres stands out more than the 'A'.
Flay, I think these may not be perfect, but they are incredible.
I'm gonna assume that statement was linked to a lack of sleep. :P
Haha, yeah, that doesn't sound very flattering looking that back over. I guess what I was trying to say was, despite the fact they aren't flawless, they are still pretty incredible and you should be happy with your progress.
I'm actually going to take a moment to single out one of the images above.
I think there is considerable potential in this piece right here. To take a step-off from what Grenn said earlier, there are a lot of random pieces on here that seem to draw the eye away to no real emphatic end. Its as though the image were created by placing shapes on a board, and there are lots of random or discarded pieces laying about.
However, I think the radio tower is some very iconic imagery there, and the way it's framed by the black on white helps send it home. The piece still feels rather bare/minimum, but with the iconic imagery, stark colors and extreme angles, I'd love to see you play with that one some more and see what kind of polish you can put on it.
It is my favorite of the group, but still feels underdeveloped.
Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
The banner version is very cool. However, the iconography is a bit too important, and makes me think of 60's counter-culture and this album cover
Which isn't really what I want. I don't want it to be strictly avant garde, because the name is "apres garde" and is meant to show a self-conscious mocking, and it comments on the possibility that recreating avant garde art is impossible.
Yup, I know it's not what you're looking for, but I figured I'd post it since it was kind of interesting. Like I said, these are experiments; I'm just messing around with visuals and learning new techniques.
Oh, and on a side note, I haven't made any records of my guitar progress for a while, so here's what I learned today: http://www.mediafire.com/?2tkeqd2zhy4
Really easy to play, got it almost on the first try.
This is a mockup of an idea I'm working on at the moment. There are a lot of improvements I can (and will) make, but I finally have an idea with some stronger concepts behind it.
The type, as it stands, isn't very readable. I won't be using an image of Kandinsky's work in the background; instead I'll be using my own vectors (imitating Kandinsky's style), probably in a radiating style similar to this image.
Value wise i feel like the text should be the most dominant. So id just punch the text closer to a white and black shadow. and key the rest of the image down slightly.
Alternative colour schemes; I think I prefer the second one. Also, I don't think the reduced vibrancy on the background is working, I'm going to go mess around with that a bit.
The second one stands out more, but i find the top one more interesting. Perhaps try a few different colours for the font, but keep the grey drop shadow.
Posts
I evidently know nothing about typography, so I can't even tell if this is any good or not any more. I guess I'd say I'm not that happy with how it turned out. :?
You've gone in and made conscious design decisions for each letter, how it relates to its neighbouring letter (kerning looks decent enough), and each letter clearly conforms to an overall aesthetic/concept.
The process is a success and you should treat it like one.
Whether the type is marketable/sellable or even "good" at this stage is immaterial. Being able to make judgement calls on 'good design' is something that comes with experience. But the more work like this you do the more understanding you will start to build up and a better designer you will become.
Keep at it mate, every bit of work you're not overly happy with is a step closer to work which you'll be really proud of! 8-)
I don't know how to talk about typography in a technical sense, but I feel like an eye for the balance needed in graphic design is really hard to impart through teaching. I found my lettering just got better as I doodled in notebooks during classes and saw what worked and what didn't? but if you can't see how it's not working on your own, it's a dilemma as to how to show that, because (for me at least) graphic design is definitely not something I've learned through being taught. it relies on you being able to see what works and what doesn't.
@srsizzy: Indeed. Looking back over it, there are a lot of changes I would have liked to have made. My main problem is time management, or rather the lack of. I'm gradually improving, but unfortunately not enough to redeem this assignment.
http://midishrine.com/midi/31556.mid
(It just repeats four times, there's nothing different.)
My advice: get an actual brush and some indian ink, DAUB that bastard good and proper, and scan it in.
It'll look plenty better for it.
(Hopefully I'll have my own sometime soon so, this is pretty bloody annoying.)
If you weren't so far away, I would send you one through the post -- such is the level of their cheap-cheery-and-disposable-ness! 8-)
So, here are a few of my experiments...
Okay, so that's where we're up to. I need some criticism since I'm having a bit of trouble with this particular design. Keep in mind that these are experiments. Here's something I threw together this morning...
EDIT: Hm... The transition from CMYK to RGB has not done wonders for the colour scheme. I'll need to make I'm working in RGB from now on.
(Doesn't anyone have anything to say?)
I like this one
but...
Im not a fan of angled text in design. i know graphic design is also art, in the sense that you want to create dynamic and visually interesting compositions (and yours DOES look really good), but ive always thought that text should always be placed in a practical way. My opinion is that text should only be aligned horizontally or (sometimes) vertically decending. Angled text should be used to direct the eye somewhere. On this, it directs the viewer no where.
Just my thoughts.
Firstly, I personally treat it as a bit of a 'no no' to post in-progress commissioned work online but I know you're still kinda starting out (and the client may well have given you permission).
It seems like you've just taken a stab at trying to 'come close' to what the client wants without really taking the time to focus in on what they really want the piece to achieve. If the process is along the lines of "Just send me some stuff and I'll tell you what I like" then you're just taking shots in the dark - which isn't value for money for you or your client.
Before I do any work at all for a client, I ask them a lot of questions to narrow down the scope and requirements of the project - how do they want the piece to feel; what do they want it to communicate, to convey? What do they need to use it for? Once a clear set of requirements are established, then you can start to come up with ideas which you have designed to fit those requirements.
Often a client hasn't really explored their own requirements in detail -- part of the design process should be you encouraging them to do that.
You should also find out beforehand all the additional little bits a client wants so you can price your work and grant usage rights appropriately. There shouldn't really be any "Oh, by the way, can you make the design into a quick forum sig for me? Thanks!" moments, where you're unsure how to broach the subject of additional costs (not saying this is exactly what has happened, just giving an example).
Another great thing about understanding what the client hopes to achieve is that you can then provide some alternative ideas on direction, which are still relevant to the project. A client should be paying you for your knowledge, ideas and advice - not just technical ability. You start off with a vaugue idea about referencing Kandinsky but once you've really explored the requirements you may find there are a few other great ideas to be had also. When sending over thumbnails to a client, I always like to throw in something a little different (but which still meets the brief) to show that I've considered other angles. I find that the first ideas you have a rarely the best.
That's my point, really, I can't see the ideas behind these other than "make it a Kandinsky reference". They would work perfectly well as MySpace backdrops but not so sure about them as logos. I think the reference could be much more eloquently wielded.
BUT, in all honestly, this is all stuff which comes from experience and confidence -- at the very least it's worth trying to build up a strong, designer's mindset though.
Strong work so far, just keep in mind what you need to focus on to fulfil the brief and keep it up. I enjoy seeing your work, mate, keep at it!
I'm a complete novice when it comes to typography. The angled/curved text is actually a reference to this image but I see what you mean about it not leading the eye anywhere.
(That said, I hesitate when using the word 'always'
Hm... Podly did give me permission, but I know I should be careful about these things. I thought I might be able to make an exception because he's a member of the forums, but even so...
True, I am basically just throwing ideas around blindly. I did ask some questions back at the start of the process, but looking back on them they were more focused on the technical aspect rather than actually getting a feel for the comission. Here's what I asked:
I'll have to work on both being more direct and more inquiring. The internet isn't the best way to communicate for these sort of things.
At the moment I'm just testing the waters of online commissions. Podly has admitted he can't afford to pay very much, and I'm completely okay with that because experience is just as valuable for me at the moment.
I'm kind of struggling in this respect, for this commission: partly out of uncertainty and confusion, and partly out of sluggishness. Hopefully, like you said, I'll improve on this through experience.
I'm gonna assume that statement was linked to a lack of sleep. :P
Clearly you don't know a thing about design. You are NEVER allowed to break the rules :winky:
Your body of work is very strong, and i think the lack of feedback is that for people who knows little about graphic design, it is very hard to critique. You're studying design at uni right? If you're close to any of your tutors, or fellow students, maybe send it to them and ask for their feedback.
I really really really like the new take on the vinyl one. There doesn't seem to be a cohesion with the name and the design, however, don't seem to work together. They should emphasize each other.
Also, another reference besides the early 20th century bauhaus / constructivist (to play on "apres garde" instead of "avant garde) is the work that The Zonders have done. I really like their combination of 80's retro and futurism, and they design for a lot of bands that are stylistically similar to my music.
I see what you mean. Right now I'm trying to work out a way I can get the same lines that appear on the vinyl to follow the stroke of the letters so I can integrate the two, though I haven't figured out how just yet. (Does anyone know how I might do this?)
I'm trying to take some influences from their covers, but the two styles aren't particularly compatible. I'll just need to do some more experimentation.
EDIT: Maybe im reasding it wrong because the 'P' in Apres stands out more than the 'A'.
Haha, yeah, that doesn't sound very flattering looking that back over. I guess what I was trying to say was, despite the fact they aren't flawless, they are still pretty incredible and you should be happy with your progress.
I'm actually going to take a moment to single out one of the images above.
I think there is considerable potential in this piece right here. To take a step-off from what Grenn said earlier, there are a lot of random pieces on here that seem to draw the eye away to no real emphatic end. Its as though the image were created by placing shapes on a board, and there are lots of random or discarded pieces laying about.
However, I think the radio tower is some very iconic imagery there, and the way it's framed by the black on white helps send it home. The piece still feels rather bare/minimum, but with the iconic imagery, stark colors and extreme angles, I'd love to see you play with that one some more and see what kind of polish you can put on it.
It is my favorite of the group, but still feels underdeveloped.
Besides, it doesn't really fill what Podly's looking for, though I might play around with the radio tower a bit more.
Which isn't really what I want. I don't want it to be strictly avant garde, because the name is "apres garde" and is meant to show a self-conscious mocking, and it comments on the possibility that recreating avant garde art is impossible.
Okay, time to get to work!
Really easy to play, got it almost on the first try.
LOVING these ones. Would be good portfolio pieces me thinks
@WCK: Thanks mate, though I can see some things I would like to fix... I like the halftone effect though, I'm going to experiment with that more.
Okay, now were cooking with gas. Another experiment.
The type, as it stands, isn't very readable. I won't be using an image of Kandinsky's work in the background; instead I'll be using my own vectors (imitating Kandinsky's style), probably in a radiating style similar to this image.
Alternative colour schemes; I think I prefer the second one. Also, I don't think the reduced vibrancy on the background is working, I'm going to go mess around with that a bit.
Attempting to get the same idea to work in a banner format.