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The Greatest Country on Earth!

1235711

Posts

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Well, tell the truth, I don't see too many, or I wouldn't notice the ones I do spot. They tend towards the "friends of the ABC" and "Go sports team X" variety in any case.

    tynic on
  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    FCD wrote:
    Also guns.

    I really don't get it. Why does the stereotype american you see on sitcoms or in movies (I really don't know another kind, so feel free to correct me/call me a moron if this isn't the way many think) remain so stanchly pro-guns. They kill people. I don't think they should be outlawed - they certainly have their purposes, but goddam there's no need to keep one in the house 'for protection'.

    I think the media plays a central role in this, both on the local and national level. Since it tends to concentrate on news stories that involve murder, rape, kidnapping and other nasty things happening to ordinary people, the American public at large ends up with a wrongly magnified picture of how dangerous life is in our own country. And the reason the networks and newspapers do all this? For money, of course. Carnage is horrible, but it attracts attention, and attention means more rattings for the news networks, and more circulation for the papers. Money makes the world go round, as they say, as well as keeping the people fearful of all the wrong things.

    I think the media plays a central role in this, too, but I'm pretty sure that role isn't scaring people silly. No, the media just helps send the message that Guns Are Manly, for Manly Men. Those guns-rights advocates who like to talk about oh, self-defense? They have a reasonable argument there, but the vast majority of them don't really mean it. The media plays to violence for profit, yes, but it isn't frightening people into taking up arms.

    re: founding fathers: I think the reason we're so deferential to the authority of the founding fathers is that the Constitution is the sole protector of our rights. I mean, even the Supreme Court of the United States can't make moral judgements--it has to work in terms of "Constitutional or not?" So if I want to deal with crazy fundies, for example, it's in my very best interests to play the Founding Fathers card. The irony is that the founding fathers probably weren't for a lot of the rights we use their works to defend--it's all a twist-their-wordgame.

    I'm not sure what education system you all went through though. Outside of some unaccountable glorification of Washington, we learn that the founders were, as a whole, intensely self-interested white property-holders; not that concerned with "equality," and having fairly sordid private lives besides.

    Mahnmut on
    Steam/LoL: Jericho89
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    FCD wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    tynic wrote:
    FyreWulff wrote:
    While I don't hold them on as high a pedestal, it took balls to basically sign their own death warrants. They also taught us about how they constantly fought and Jefferson's illegitimate children, yadda yadda.


    re: buck passing: get over it. the US is 50 seperate states in a federal union. No two states are alike. If you want to issue blanket statements, at least figure out the correct state.
    So split up. You want to act like fifty countries, be fifty countries. Don't act as one and say "but it was them!" when people call you on it.

    Remember the last time some of those countries tried to split off?

    Yep, that worked out pretty badly. Mostly cause we tried to stop them. Seriously, I'm a damned Yankee, and I think we should have let the Confederacy secede. They were a millstone around our neck then, and they still are now.
    Yeah, nothing like losing your entire agricultural base. All the manufacturing plants in the world are for naught if you don't have someone supplying the raw materials. Moron.

    It's not like there were no Midwestern states in the Union during the Civil War. We had them to rely on. Plus, once the the Confederacy was it's own independant nation, we could always conduct peaceful trade with them. Afterall, we didn't swear off all trade with Britain forever just because of the Revolution.

    FCD on
    "If anyone tried to steal your WAX LIPS, you would eat their eyeballs and deliver an angry lecture into their empty sockets." Hearts Boxcars, The Midnight Crew
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    re: why the founding fathers were a big deal:

    Aside from having the stones to openly rebel against one of the pre-eminent world powers at the time, they get credit for combining several apparently competing philosophies of political thought into something that was not only unique, but was better than anything anyone else was doing at the time (and arguably, by way of amendment process, still is.)

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Incenjucar wrote:
    FCD wrote:
    Also guns.

    I really don't get it. Why does the stereotype american you see on sitcoms or in movies (I really don't know another kind, so feel free to correct me/call me a moron if this isn't the way many think) remain so stanchly pro-guns. They kill people. I don't think they should be outlawed - they certainly have their purposes, but goddam there's no need to keep one in the house 'for protection'.

    I think the media plays a central role in this, both on the local and national level. Since it tends to concentrate on news stories that involve murder, rape, kidnapping and other nasty things happening to ordinary people, the American public at large ends up with a wrongly magnified picture of how dangerous life is in our own country. And the reason the networks and newspapers do all this? For money, of course. Carnage is horrible, but it attracts attention, and attention means more rattings for the news networks, and more circulation for the papers. Money makes the world go round, as they say, as well as keeping the people fearful of all the wrong things.

    To be fair, we do have a pretty insane violence rate for a developed country.

    Canada has more guns per household, but far less gun violence (I honestly think that being cold as fuck tends to keep modern people civilized - heat waves make people violent even.)

    Hell, here in Fresno, you hear about some horrible thing pretty much every day. They don't even need to dwell on one for a week, there's horrible things in the valley EVERY SINGLE DAY.

    Unless theres a corresponding dip in gun violence between northern and southern states, I dont think climate really plays a roll. The majority of the Canadian population lives within something like 20 miles of the border.

    Culture (no right to bear arms here, or NRA equivalent that I've heard of), and rates of handgun vs long-gun ownership are probably more important determinants of gun crime rates.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Dyscord wrote:
    re: why the founding fathers were a big deal:

    Aside from having the stones to openly rebel against one of the pre-eminent world powers at the time, they get credit for combining several apparently competing philosophies of political thought into something that was not only unique, but was better than anything anyone else was doing at the time (and arguably, by way of amendment process, still is.)

    Exactly. The Founding Fathers weren't perfect, but they had a lot of great ideas, many of which still work to this day. And that's why many Americans still hold high respect for them, though sometimes that is taken to extremes.

    FCD on
    "If anyone tried to steal your WAX LIPS, you would eat their eyeballs and deliver an angry lecture into their empty sockets." Hearts Boxcars, The Midnight Crew
  • urbmanurbman Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Marx wrote:
    Wait, Urbman, I can't exactly tell from your post.

    You are against the 14th amendment and 19th amendment?

    No Im saying in the original document there is nothing that says anything about blacks being slaves and who and who can not vote expect citizens of the US...so I am saying they are not really necessary.

    People who thought that women couldnt vote and that slaves/black people where not real people needed them.

    urbman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    urbman wrote:
    Marx wrote:
    Wait, Urbman, I can't exactly tell from your post.

    You are against the 14th amendment and 19th amendment?

    No Im saying in the original document there is nothing that says anything about blacks being slaves and who and who can not vote expect citizens of the US...so I am saying they are not really necessary.

    People who thought that women couldnt vote and that slaves/black people where not real people needed them.

    Those people were, as it happens, most of the founding fathers. I assure you that they never had any intention of giving women the vote, and many would have been against blacks, or even non-whites in general.

    Mahnmut on
    Steam/LoL: Jericho89
  • urbmanurbman Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Yes I know that. But at the time those amendments where written all the founding fathers where dead. White rich men just didnt want to lose power. So the north beat the south and the wives of the rich folk made them allow the ladies to vote.

    urbman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    There's a decent body of thought out there that says the founders wrote the constitution as a 'living' document anyway. I don't really want to get into that argument right now, in case there are some originalists on this board, but that goes a long way toward explaining why they punted on more than one issue.

    I don't particularly think the flaws of the founders are overlooked in the U.S., either, at least outside of sixth grade classrooms.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I live in Alberta, and our province is almost always branded "Canada's America". In fact, a few months ago we sent oil ambassadors to Washington to tell you folks how great our oil is! Buy it, please! (We also just got rid of a Conservative premier of 14 years. 14 years.

    One thing I'd like answered, though: We have a "conservative" Prime Minister right now. I've always thought that Canada's conservatives are like America's Democrats. Would that be fair to say, or are our Conservatives the real deal?

    Meissnerd on
    do not ask for whom the snerd tolls
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Meissnerd wrote:
    I live in Alberta, and our province is almost always branded "Canada's America". In fact, a few months ago we sent oil ambassadors to Washington to tell you folks how great our oil is! Buy it, please! (We also just got rid of a Conservative premier of 14 years. 14 years.

    One thing I'd like answered, though: We have a "conservative" Prime Minister right now. I've always thought that Canada's conservatives are like America's Democrats. Would that be fair to say, or are our Conservatives the real deal?

    Not really. I don't know that you can draw neat comparisons between the Canadian and American Political parties, if for no other reason than we have alot more parties than they do.

    Also, I'd note that you guys didn't get rid of Ralph Klein, he retired. Its not like he was voted out of office or anything.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Corvus wrote:
    Meissnerd wrote:
    I live in Alberta, and our province is almost always branded "Canada's America". In fact, a few months ago we sent oil ambassadors to Washington to tell you folks how great our oil is! Buy it, please! (We also just got rid of a Conservative premier of 14 years. 14 years.

    One thing I'd like answered, though: We have a "conservative" Prime Minister right now. I've always thought that Canada's conservatives are like America's Democrats. Would that be fair to say, or are our Conservatives the real deal?

    Not really. I don't know that you can draw neat comparisons between the Canadian and American Political parties, if for no other reason than we have alot more parties than they do.

    Also, I'd note that you guys didn't get rid of Ralph Klein, he retired. Its not like he was voted out of office or anything.

    Yeah, you're right on that. During the Conservative leadership vote or whatever, he "only" got something like 57% of the vote, so he lost his "mandate".

    The point is, he's gone, and good riddance. It's one thing I dislike about having so many parties; right now, there's only one Conservative party, so almost all conservative votes go to that party. But then the lefties have the Liberals, the NDP, and now the Greens (though the Greens claim to be neither left or right). I like having more than two options, but when it gets to point that voting for a whole party is the same as wasting a vote, it gets a bit depressing. And that's how I feel like it is in Alberta right now, that if I was going to vote anything but Conservative, there'd be no point.

    But yeah, anyways. America. I think making fun of Americans is somewhat of a past time in Canada, especially in the media. We've got some comedy shows (Royal Canadian Air Farce and This Hour Has 22 Minutes being the classic ones). Air Farce, I find, will take any opportunity to diss America (especially Bush. My god, it's so fucking shameless). 22 Minutes is better, because it won't be so blatant about it, and they'll pick on other people too.

    Meissnerd on
    do not ask for whom the snerd tolls
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Corvus wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Marx wrote:
    Also, I find it pompous that citizens of the United States of America call themselves Americans, when there are two whole continents that bear the name America.
    I don't know.

    United States-ian sounds pretty retarded.

    Yeah. Plus, the USA is the only country that actually has "America" as part of its name. We don't need "American" as a generic term for the countries on the two American continents. In North America, theres only three countries. Its just easier to refer to the countries by name or refer to "North American" or "South American"

    Pomposity really has nothing to do with it.
    North America only has 3 contries?

    Are we not including Central America in this? Since when did we have 8 contients?

    ronzo on
  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Avris wrote:
    Corvus wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Marx wrote:
    Also, I find it pompous that citizens of the United States of America call themselves Americans, when there are two whole continents that bear the name America.
    I don't know.

    United States-ian sounds pretty retarded.

    Yeah. Plus, the USA is the only country that actually has "America" as part of its name. We don't need "American" as a generic term for the countries on the two American continents. In North America, theres only three countries. Its just easier to refer to the countries by name or refer to "North American" or "South American"

    Pomposity really has nothing to do with it.
    North America only has 3 contries?

    Are we not including Central America in this? Since when did we have 8 contients?

    Isn't it just Canada, the U.S. and Mexico?

    Meissnerd on
    do not ask for whom the snerd tolls
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Meissnerd wrote:
    Corvus wrote:
    Meissnerd wrote:
    I live in Alberta, and our province is almost always branded "Canada's America". In fact, a few months ago we sent oil ambassadors to Washington to tell you folks how great our oil is! Buy it, please! (We also just got rid of a Conservative premier of 14 years. 14 years.

    One thing I'd like answered, though: We have a "conservative" Prime Minister right now. I've always thought that Canada's conservatives are like America's Democrats. Would that be fair to say, or are our Conservatives the real deal?

    Not really. I don't know that you can draw neat comparisons between the Canadian and American Political parties, if for no other reason than we have alot more parties than they do.

    Also, I'd note that you guys didn't get rid of Ralph Klein, he retired. Its not like he was voted out of office or anything.

    Yeah, you're right on that. During the Conservative leadership vote or whatever, he "only" got something like 57% of the vote, so he lost his "mandate".

    The point is, he's gone, and good riddance. It's one thing I dislike about having so many parties; right now, there's only one Conservative party, so almost all conservative votes go to that party. But then the lefties have the Liberals, the NDP, and now the Greens (though the Greens claim to be neither left or right). I like having more than two options, but when it gets to point that voting for a whole party is the same as wasting a vote, it gets a bit depressing. And that's how I feel like it is in Alberta right now, that if I was going to vote anything but Conservative, there'd be no point.

    But yeah, anyways. America. I think making fun of Americans is somewhat of a past time in Canada, especially in the media. We've got some comedy shows (Royal Canadian Air Farce and This Hour Has 22 Minutes being the classic ones). Air Farce, I find, will take any opportunity to diss America (especially Bush. My god, it's so fucking shameless). 22 Minutes is better, because it won't be so blatant about it, and they'll pick on other people too.

    Air Farce really isn't that funny though. 22 Minutes is good. Mercer's "Talking to Americans" was fucking hilarious.

    Al_wat on
    PSN: AWATTT66| XBox Live: AWATTT66| Steam: AL-WAT| Battle.Net: ALWATTS #1320
    Origin: aiwatt| Switch: SW-8499-0918-5960
  • MeissnerdMeissnerd Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Al_wat wrote:
    Meissnerd wrote:
    Corvus wrote:
    Meissnerd wrote:
    I live in Alberta, and our province is almost always branded "Canada's America". In fact, a few months ago we sent oil ambassadors to Washington to tell you folks how great our oil is! Buy it, please! (We also just got rid of a Conservative premier of 14 years. 14 years.

    One thing I'd like answered, though: We have a "conservative" Prime Minister right now. I've always thought that Canada's conservatives are like America's Democrats. Would that be fair to say, or are our Conservatives the real deal?

    Not really. I don't know that you can draw neat comparisons between the Canadian and American Political parties, if for no other reason than we have alot more parties than they do.

    Also, I'd note that you guys didn't get rid of Ralph Klein, he retired. Its not like he was voted out of office or anything.

    Yeah, you're right on that. During the Conservative leadership vote or whatever, he "only" got something like 57% of the vote, so he lost his "mandate".

    The point is, he's gone, and good riddance. It's one thing I dislike about having so many parties; right now, there's only one Conservative party, so almost all conservative votes go to that party. But then the lefties have the Liberals, the NDP, and now the Greens (though the Greens claim to be neither left or right). I like having more than two options, but when it gets to point that voting for a whole party is the same as wasting a vote, it gets a bit depressing. And that's how I feel like it is in Alberta right now, that if I was going to vote anything but Conservative, there'd be no point.

    But yeah, anyways. America. I think making fun of Americans is somewhat of a past time in Canada, especially in the media. We've got some comedy shows (Royal Canadian Air Farce and This Hour Has 22 Minutes being the classic ones). Air Farce, I find, will take any opportunity to diss America (especially Bush. My god, it's so fucking shameless). 22 Minutes is better, because it won't be so blatant about it, and they'll pick on other people too.

    Air Farce really isn't that funny though. 22 Minutes is good. Mercer's "Talking to Americans" was fucking hilarious.

    I figured I'd save rating the two shows, just in case a thread about them ever appeared. And yeah, Mercer is gold.

    Meissnerd on
    do not ask for whom the snerd tolls
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Meissnerd wrote:
    Al_wat wrote:
    Meissnerd wrote:
    Corvus wrote:
    Meissnerd wrote:
    I live in Alberta, and our province is almost always branded "Canada's America". In fact, a few months ago we sent oil ambassadors to Washington to tell you folks how great our oil is! Buy it, please! (We also just got rid of a Conservative premier of 14 years. 14 years.

    One thing I'd like answered, though: We have a "conservative" Prime Minister right now. I've always thought that Canada's conservatives are like America's Democrats. Would that be fair to say, or are our Conservatives the real deal?

    Not really. I don't know that you can draw neat comparisons between the Canadian and American Political parties, if for no other reason than we have alot more parties than they do.

    Also, I'd note that you guys didn't get rid of Ralph Klein, he retired. Its not like he was voted out of office or anything.

    Yeah, you're right on that. During the Conservative leadership vote or whatever, he "only" got something like 57% of the vote, so he lost his "mandate".

    The point is, he's gone, and good riddance. It's one thing I dislike about having so many parties; right now, there's only one Conservative party, so almost all conservative votes go to that party. But then the lefties have the Liberals, the NDP, and now the Greens (though the Greens claim to be neither left or right). I like having more than two options, but when it gets to point that voting for a whole party is the same as wasting a vote, it gets a bit depressing. And that's how I feel like it is in Alberta right now, that if I was going to vote anything but Conservative, there'd be no point.

    But yeah, anyways. America. I think making fun of Americans is somewhat of a past time in Canada, especially in the media. We've got some comedy shows (Royal Canadian Air Farce and This Hour Has 22 Minutes being the classic ones). Air Farce, I find, will take any opportunity to diss America (especially Bush. My god, it's so fucking shameless). 22 Minutes is better, because it won't be so blatant about it, and they'll pick on other people too.

    Air Farce really isn't that funny though. 22 Minutes is good. Mercer's "Talking to Americans" was fucking hilarious.

    I figured I'd save rating the two shows, just in case a thread about them ever appeared. And yeah, Mercer is gold.

    Air Farce has been shit since John Morgan died. How I miss Mike from Canmore...
    Meissnerd wrote:
    The point is, he's gone, and good riddance.

    Man, fuck King Klein. Biggest douche since Mulroney...
    Mahnmut wrote:
    The irony is that the founding fathers probably weren't for a lot of the rights we use their works to defend--it's all a twist-their-wordgame.

    That is something that I find troublesome. Debate gets stifled when you will be crucified if you fail to mention Benjamin Franklin (I don't care what anyone says; he was a racist douche who opposed the Quebec Act) or Thomas Jefferson in discussing constitutional matters. Why should people defer to their wishes? So what if they were the original authors of your constitution? That's something that seems absolutely antithetical to the purported 'american experience'.

    Grah. It just smacks of hypocrisy, really, and it's one of the things that really gets my goat.

    saggio on
    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Well, I'm an Israeli, and I've been to the states. I've also been on the internets since I was eleven, so I learned that most stereotypes are completely and totally wrong, and almost always idiotic. But I have found some thing that Israelis think about Americans to be true. For one, every single American is mentally two years younger than an Israeli. Not education-wise mind you, I mean that as a maturity thing. I was dead set on proving my friends wrong about this when I went to the US, but I gotta tell you, except for a select few, this is largely true. An eighteen year old American acts like an sixteen year old Israeli. I have no idea why it is like that, but I do have some thoughts on the subject.

    Another thing, that I have no idea how or why it came up, is that Americans can't shoot for shit. I was also under the impression that this is completely false ( but than again, I may have been influenced by the gun-toting cowboy image of Americans that's so common around the globe ), but I have seen some reports on Israeli-American army maneuvers that happen every year, and it does seem that soldiers in the US army have a slight problem with targeting. No idea why.

    Oh, and finally, the excess patriotism and the ideals of your nation. You trust your government. You have faith in the presidential institution, and your election process. You go to the tombs of dead presidents every year and bring a shitload of flowers and letters. You sing your national anthem every morning in school. This, by far, is the single, strangest thing about the US, at least from our point of view. We don't trust our government. We doubt every single thing they do. If the support rating for the government rise about 50% than by Jove, a miracle must have happened. I mean, it took you ( the majority of americans ) three years to finally come to your senses and figure out that the Iraqi war has not gone exactly to plan, that somebody dropped the ball on the whole thing and maybe you shouldn't have gone there in the first place. The same day the second Israeli-Lebanon war ended, an inquiry began as to how our army and government fucked up. I am by no means saying that the way you conduct these affairs is wrong. Every country has its own way of doing things. But overall, we do consider you naive, with high-in-the-sky dreams about how everything should and does happen.

    ( sorry for any type-os and grammatical errors, don't have a spell checker on this computer )

    Indie Winter on
    RCmKIvs.gif
    indie_winter on PS4 | @indiewinter on twitter | 3034-4093-8537 on Switch
  • itylusitylus Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I hate kneejerk anti-Americanism. I think there are lots of things to love about America and American people and American inventions and American culture. There's also lots to hate. But, yeah, you take any group of ~300million people and you'll find the same thing.

    The other thing I hate though is if I have something negative to say about a specific aspect of the present administration over there or a specific policy and I get accused of anti-Americanism.

    I think there is some benefit in coming from a small country in that people tend to have more curiosity about the rest of the world "out there" in small countries, but that's not a moral failing on the part of citizens of big countries, it's just... a natural product of being a part of a culture that's so big that you don't need an "out there" to find interesting stuff.

    itylus on
  • CavilCavil Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Anti-Americanism comes with the territory. I'm sure during Pax Romana, there were Phoenicians saying, "God, I hate those fuckers. All roads lead to Rome? Don't make me puke. Now let's go fish or whatever our civilization is most renowned for. Because they sure as hell aren't call it Pax Phoenicia."

    Cavil on
    Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think the Phoenicians had purple ink obtained from little snails. Also, cedar trees.

    FCD on
    "If anyone tried to steal your WAX LIPS, you would eat their eyeballs and deliver an angry lecture into their empty sockets." Hearts Boxcars, The Midnight Crew
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    It's kind of funny how people use the "yeah, but they're from __" in every country in the world. Even the Netherlands! My country is but a dot on a map, yet when people talk about how it's ok to smoke marijuana here, they get the "well, that's just Amsterdam!" or when we get flak for our anti-migration laws, it's the "but that's just our minister!" (Please note that the senate has tried to vote her out of for 4 times now).

    It's pretty retarded, if you call yourself a Dutchman, American, Brit, Israeli or Australian, you should just accept that it is your country that does bad things and don't try to shove it off to other Dutchmen, Americans, Brits, Israelis or Australians. D:

    @I.H.N.I.W.T.R.: Of course, your soldiers get to aim at people's heads a whole lot more than your average US soldier. ;)

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • AzariusAzarius Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Zimmydoom wrote:
    This is a thread about America. Or, rather, this is a thread about how America (the country) and Americans (the people) are perceived around the world, and how foreign media influences these perceptions.

    When you name a thread "The Greatest Country on Earth", and then wonder why people think Americans are full of themselves.

    Azarius on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Azarius wrote:
    Zimmydoom wrote:
    This is a thread about America. Or, rather, this is a thread about how America (the country) and Americans (the people) are perceived around the world, and how foreign media influences these perceptions.

    When you name a thread "The Greatest Country on Earth", and then wonder why people think Americans are full of themselves.


    Your sarcasm-alarm is broken

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Corvus wrote:
    Elendil wrote:
    Marx wrote:
    Also, I find it pompous that citizens of the United States of America call themselves Americans, when there are two whole continents that bear the name America.
    I don't know.

    United States-ian sounds pretty retarded.

    Yeah. Plus, the USA is the only country that actually has "America" as part of its name. We don't need "American" as a generic term for the countries on the two American continents. In North America, theres only three countries. Its just easier to refer to the countries by name or refer to "North American" or "South American"

    Pomposity really has nothing to do with it.
    Also, can't the full name of Mexico be translated as the United States of Mexico.

    Couscous on
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    If I see another actual flesh and blood American seriously chanting the U-S-A! U-S-A! thing I'm going to go pound my head against the wall. It's not just irritating; I feel embarrassed for the other Americans out there when it happens and everyone else in the surrounding area wants to strangle him/her/them. This dread and head-to-wall is generally what I feel when some outstanding individual does something to misrepresent his or her country/group.

    It was very weird having my relatives in Taiwan assume that because I grew up in Canada I a) am Christian, b) only eat burgers, c) cannot speak Chinese, and know of every English singer and band. Conversely, though, I find it amusing when individuals in post-secondary education here in Canada have thought that I a) am incapable of speaking properly in English, b) come from a low-income family, and c) hail from some exotic place across the globe simply because I am of Chinese descent. But that's more a race thing than a country thing, I guess.

    SilverWind on
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  • No Cars GoNo Cars Go Registered User
    edited December 2006
    There are quite varying views here in the UK towards Americans. Many don't care for America, neither like nor dislike, usually people in lower income groups. They've got their own shit to worry about, nevermind international affairs. Read tabloid newspapers, hate all immigrants.

    There's the assholes; often of a higher income group, best described as ranging from middle class and above. They don't know enough to form their own opinions, they're arrogant about their supposed superiority over Americans, both intellectually and culturally. More often than not their complete idiots and tools. These people annoy me more than anything. They're the ones that clap and laugh at cringingly-poor Anti-American humour. They like to make jabs about American stupidity. A lot. This is, to a degree, perpertuated by our medias coverage of USA's government - which combined with the belief that most Americans are blindly patriotic to their president and country, leads to this overall misconception that all Americans are a reflection of the government, and therefore Bush. They take Michael Moore seriously, too.

    However, there are reasonably intelligent people who realise that America has it's problems, and a lot of it's populous is completely ignorant about the outside world, but can see past the ridiculous stereotypes and misinformation, and see that it's like any other country, but being the most powerful, influential nation on the planet, it results in jealousy and hatred, and every action being inspected under a microscope, something which most country's do not have to go through, at least not on an international scale. With great power comes great responsibility. Or something.

    No Cars Go on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    No Cars Go wrote:
    Working class people are racist

    Thanks a bunch. I did not know my belonging to a lower income group made me hate all immigrants.

    Nice.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • No Cars GoNo Cars Go Registered User
    edited December 2006
    poshniallo wrote:
    No Cars Go wrote:
    Working class people are racist

    Thanks a bunch. I did not know my belonging to a lower income group made me hate all immigrants.

    Nice.

    I'm working class myself. The above were short generalisations, thought that was obvious?

    No Cars Go on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Reread that post. You can't see anything in there that might be seen as rude as hell?

    I noticed they were generalisations. Did you notice they were rude?

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • No Cars GoNo Cars Go Registered User
    edited December 2006
    poshniallo wrote:
    Reread that post. You can't see anything in there that might be seen as rude as hell?

    I noticed they were generalisations. Did you notice they were rude?

    I'm not trying to be polite. i'm giving a snapshot of the British publics views (or lack of) on America, which is what this thread is about.

    No Cars Go on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    So you really believe that working class people don't know shit about international affairs and hate all immigrants?

    Except for you, of course, because you're one of those 'reasonably intelligent people'

    How spiffy for you.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    @I.H.N.I.W.T.R.: Of course, your soldiers get to aim at people's heads a whole lot more than your average US soldier. ;)

    Every army has its assholes, renegades and general douchebags. The IDF just gets a hell of a lot more exposure about the things its idiots commit because it's in a major global newspot. And besides, it's not like the fuckers who do these things are excused. Bastards who shoot people in the head to confirm their kills deserve to be locked away in someplace horrible for a long time.

    EDIT: also, no more derailing the thread.

    Indie Winter on
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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    @I.H.N.I.W.T.R.: Of course, your soldiers get to aim at people's heads a whole lot more than your average US soldier. ;)

    Every army has its assholes, renegades and general douchebags. The IDF just gets a hell of a lot more exposure about the things its idiots commit because it's in a major global newspot. And besides, it's not like the fuckers who do these things are excused. Bastards who shoot people in the head to confirm their kills deserve to be locked away in someplace horrible for a long time.

    EDIT: also, no more derailing the thread.
    I was hinting at your soldiers having actual combat experience, I don't know what you are talking about. :?

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    Aldo wrote:
    @I.H.N.I.W.T.R.: Of course, your soldiers get to aim at people's heads a whole lot more than your average US soldier. ;)

    Every army has its assholes, renegades and general douchebags. The IDF just gets a hell of a lot more exposure about the things its idiots commit because it's in a major global newspot. And besides, it's not like the fuckers who do these things are excused. Bastards who shoot people in the head to confirm their kills deserve to be locked away in someplace horrible for a long time.

    EDIT: also, no more derailing the thread.
    I was hinting at your soldiers having actual combat experience, I don't know what you are talking about. :?

    Well don't I feel like an idiot right now.

    Indie Winter on
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    indie_winter on PS4 | @indiewinter on twitter | 3034-4093-8537 on Switch
  • Nexus ZeroNexus Zero Registered User
    edited December 2006
    American intervention in Europe during WW1 and WW2, the emancipation proclamation

    Putting a man on the moon was a brilliant thing, but it was undoubtedly a pissing contest with Russia. American intervention in the two World Wars was of course a great thing, but in both cases it almost came too late and also "coincidentally" gave America the military and economic superpower status that it still retains today. The emancipation proclamation was pretty much a political move instigated by the Civil War, born from a different type of racism than seen in the south.
    tynic wrote:
    Personally, I'm a little sick of hearing "You don't understaaaannnnnndddd. We're so biiiiggggg and diveerrrrsssee. Those guys don't speak for all of us!"

    Own your shit.

    Wow, how retarded. In 20+ years, when Europe has a unified government, will I still have to "own my shit" when I have to explain eastern Europe or Germany's attacks on freedoms of speech?

    Nexus Zero on
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  • peterdevorepeterdevore Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think a lot of hate towards americans is a result of 1 sentence: "you are either with us, or against us". Of course, we realize that the majority (?) didn't vote or didn't vote willingly for the person who said that, but that is another issue.

    That sentence alone is a major deal breaker. Sure, 'with us' means in practice, anyone not actively or passively supporting terrorist organizations. But the whole non negotiability that speaks from it is the issue. People don't like being pushed around and told what they have to do, American officials seem fond to assure that is all they're there for.

    America can't stand losing their power and control over the world. Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld both (now out of office, but still) are part of an organisation that openly states America should be the ruling power in the world, exerted through military force. People (me included) simply don't care if america is right in their views on freedom and democracy (in theory, you got it almost right), they simply feel it isn't america's decision to make war over it and have the last say.

    This is emphasized by the fact that a lot of big american corporations got a really good deal out of the war. It might sound just, but when you look at the ideals posed as a reason to go to war over, those should apply and be supported by all participants evenly, so so should the 'rewards' of the war be distributed proportionally to all those who supported the war. The idea of going to war for the spoils is sickening and should be prevented and discouraged as much as possible. As long as other countries don't get a say in the progress of war, that essential control won't happen.

    Also outside of war, economic reasons count heavily in america's decision making, and it's a big factor why people/countries hate to be bossed around by america, since it isn't always in their best interest, as they make it out to be.

    peterdevore on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nexus Zero wrote:
    tynic wrote:
    Personally, I'm a little sick of hearing "You don't understaaaannnnnndddd. We're so biiiiggggg and diveerrrrsssee. Those guys don't speak for all of us!"

    Own your shit.

    Wow, how retarded. In 20+ years, when Europe has a unified government, will I still have to "own my shit" when I have to explain eastern Europe or Germany's attacks on freedoms of speech?
    I don't think Europe will become a United States if we can't agree on some basic things first. Basic things being equal rights in all countries. :|

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    @I.H.N.I.W.T.R.: Of course, your soldiers get to aim at people's heads a whole lot more than your average US soldier. ;)

    Every army has its assholes, renegades and general douchebags. The IDF just gets a hell of a lot more exposure about the things its idiots commit because it's in a major global newspot. And besides, it's not like the fuckers who do these things are excused. Bastards who shoot people in the head to confirm their kills deserve to be locked away in someplace horrible for a long time.

    EDIT: also, no more derailing the thread.

    Wait what?

    If you've already decided to kill someone, why does shooting them in the head to make sure it's done and over make you a monster? I'm honestly confused here.

    Mahnmut on
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