AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
For the sake of argument, assuming it does get struck down, from a public advocacy/public policy point of view I'm quite interested to see what exactly might be done from the Gay Equality side to get better results in these types of situations for their policies, or rather, what seems to be failing in the current approach (taking California and presumably Maine) that could be altered/improved on.
For the sake of argument, assuming it does get struck down, from a public advocacy/public policy point of view I'm quite interested to see what exactly might be done from the Gay Equality side to get better results in these types of situations for their policies, or rather, what seems to be failing in the current approach (taking California and presumably Maine) that could be altered/improved on.
Where do you think this vote would have come down 10 years ago? They just need to keep doing what they're doing, and maybe improve GOTV. In a decade's time we'll probably see gay marriage everywhere outside of the Mormon belt and the South. Maybe even there too if Scalia and Thomas die.
For the sake of argument, assuming it does get struck down, from a public advocacy/public policy point of view I'm quite interested to see what exactly might be done from the Gay Equality side to get better results in these types of situations for their policies, or rather, what seems to be failing in the current approach (taking California and presumably Maine) that could be altered/improved on.
For the sake of argument, assuming it does get struck down, from a public advocacy/public policy point of view I'm quite interested to see what exactly might be done from the Gay Equality side to get better results in these types of situations for their policies, or rather, what seems to be failing in the current approach (taking California and presumably Maine) that could be altered/improved on.
Wait for some people to die.
And some people to grow into voting age.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
What's a TABOR? It sounds like some big hairy Siberian guy.
That's Tibor. It's a Taxpayer Bill of Rights. Ie preventing the state from funding programs through taxes.
Basically, what it says is that the state has a static taxbase. Any tax increases can only be done in conjunction with inflation. Which sounds great - until you realize that things like healthcare spending is increasing at three+ times the rate of inflation. Which means that the state ends up having to cut back on services.
Colorado passed the original TABOR in the early 90s. A decade later, thanks to the damage it did to the state, they had repealed it piecemeal.
Doesn't California basically operate under similar principles, just without the Tibor but in its place an ammendment?
No, Prop 13 is it's own unique brand of fucked up.
For the sake of argument, assuming it does get struck down, from a public advocacy/public policy point of view I'm quite interested to see what exactly might be done from the Gay Equality side to get better results in these types of situations for their policies, or rather, what seems to be failing in the current approach (taking California and presumably Maine) that could be altered/improved on.
Wait for some people to die.
And some people to grow into voting age.
Well, voting age or 'actually deciding to go to the polls' age; which is closer to 30 than it is 18.
Or run it in a poll in an even numbered year. Off year elections are older and more conservative than mid term elections which are older and more conservative than presidential years
What's a TABOR? It sounds like some big hairy Siberian guy.
That's Tibor. It's a Taxpayer Bill of Rights. Ie preventing the state from funding programs through taxes.
Basically, what it says is that the state has a static taxbase. Any tax increases can only be done in conjunction with inflation. Which sounds great - until you realize that things like healthcare spending is increasing at three+ times the rate of inflation. Which means that the state ends up having to cut back on services.
Colorado passed the original TABOR in the early 90s. A decade later, thanks to the damage it did to the state, they had repealed it piecemeal.
Doesn't California basically operate under similar principles, just without the Tibor but in its place an ammendment?
No, Prop 13 is it's own unique brand of fucked up.
it is, in many ways, worse as it presents a shrinking taxbase relative to inflation.
Is there a big bastion of traditionally liberal voters in one of the precincts coming up?
I know that even in the big national elections, votes can look like this but they'll still call it for the other guy, because some precincts they'll know will go heavily the other other side..
Or run it in a poll in an even numbered year. Off year elections are older and more conservative than mid term elections which are older and more conservative than presidential years
Hey that's nice EXCEPT we just had a bunch of homophobic shit pass last year. Prop 8, some prop in Florida I believe also.
Which by the way, if any of you reading this are against same-sex marriage, let me just call you what you are. You're a bigot. Plain and simple. You want to restrict the rights of me, and people like me, and for what? Why? Because of the Bible? Well, bigot, the Bible is filled with passages that you and I both disagree with. That's not it. It's because you're prejudiced. It's because we're different and you don't like us. Don't try and paint it any other way, because that's the truth.
What's that? I'm wrong? Well then, prove it by changing your opinion on this issue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with your personal life. And until you do, I'll just call you what you are. A bigot.
Oh, FAR more of the country is gone than that. Michigan told the gays to fuck off in the first election I ever voted in, as did like 10 other states that year.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I am heart-broken tonight by Maine, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise.
Somehow losing by this tiny margin is brutalizing. And because this is a vote on my dignity as a human being, it is hard not to take it personally or emotionally. But I also know that the history of civil rights movements has many steps backward as forward, and some of those reversals actually catalyze the convictions that lead to victories. A decade ago, the marriage issue was toxic. Now it divides evenly. Soon, it will win everywhere.
I know for many younger gays and lesbians, this process can seem bewildering and hurtful. But I'm old enough now to be able to look back and see the hill we have climbed in such a short amount of time, and the minds and hearts we have changed. Including our own.
Know hope.
To everyone in Maine who voted yes on Question 1: No one should have been given this vote and you know it. I hate you and I hate everyone who won't hate you.
This is depressing. With the way things are going, I know it's a matter of time until gay marriage is recognized in the majority, but it's always a kick in the nuts when what should be equal now has to wait.
I think what gay couples should start doing is just getting married (in whatever unnoficial way they choose), and then turning up at places where married couples get certain benefits and insisting people explain to them why they don't get the benefits. Take up hours and hours of these peoples time every day, demanding that they effectively come out and say 'because the system is bigotted and stupid'
So, call the IRS free hotline a dozen times and ask about filing joint taxes and whatever, just be a general nuisance of yourselves. Since there is no logical reason, it will take ages.
It will also waste taxpayers' resources and not actually reach anybody who is against gay marriage.
Cervetus on
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
You know, I don't think I got TABOR on my ballot
I got something about having voting referendums on tax increases and spending measures, and something about giving Maine a shitload of money to maintain and improve their roads and bridges and such (which I voted yes on in the most forceful manner possible) but I didn't get anything about taxes only increasing with inflation
Son of a bitch. I checked this thread last night and went to bed thinking that we were actually going to win this one. I'm so angry right now I can't think of anything else to say.
Orochi_Rockman on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Son of a bitch. I checked this thread last night and went to bed thinking that we were actually going to win this one. I'm so angry right now I can't think of anything else to say.
I wouldn't venture into the election day thread then; bigot in there almost made me punch a wall.
Son of a bitch. I checked this thread last night and went to bed thinking that we were actually going to win this one. I'm so angry right now I can't think of anything else to say.
I wouldn't venture into the election day thread then; bigot in there almost made me punch a wall.
Bigots on the internet tend to just be trolling for lulz unless it's a place dedicated to bigotry like stormfront.
And of course there are people who genuinely believe as that poster in the other thread does, but you knew that already, it shouldn't get such a rise out of you when one posts on a forum.
Maybe if he said that shit in public or to you in person, but not on the internet.
Kagera on
My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
If he said shit in person it'd be a lot easier for me to find something to punch.
If he said shit in person it'd be a lot easier for me to find something to punch.
My point is that it's best to remember that the internet is usually a very indirect means of communication especially when you're talking about a stranger on an internet forum.
I went to sleep at around 11 yesterday. I assume I can start hating Maine now?
You never started?
I always thought of it as just America's appendix.
Hey now, Maine is a nice place. Beautiful, friendly, and remote. A single vote can't take that away.
I'd say it did.
All the vote did was illuminate the current opinion of voting citizens. It didn't actually change anything. The marriage law was enacted without a vote, and the vote repealed it. Regardless, that doesn't make the state deplorable. It's about individual people.
Yeah, Maine is generally a pretty nice state, if a bit primitive
I'm not saying it's great but it ain't fuckin' Alabama or Kansas
Hey.
Kansas is a beautiful state full of incredibly friendly people. They're just by and large horribly misinformed about important stuff. Having a 95% white christian population in the single digit millions will do that.
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Where do you think this vote would have come down 10 years ago? They just need to keep doing what they're doing, and maybe improve GOTV. In a decade's time we'll probably see gay marriage everywhere outside of the Mormon belt and the South. Maybe even there too if Scalia and Thomas die.
Wait for some people to die.
And some people to grow into voting age.
No, Prop 13 is it's own unique brand of fucked up.
Well, voting age or 'actually deciding to go to the polls' age; which is closer to 30 than it is 18.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
it is, in many ways, worse as it presents a shrinking taxbase relative to inflation.
I know that even in the big national elections, votes can look like this but they'll still call it for the other guy, because some precincts they'll know will go heavily the other other side..
EDIT: And just after I post that, AP calls it for the bigots.
Hey that's nice EXCEPT we just had a bunch of homophobic shit pass last year. Prop 8, some prop in Florida I believe also.
Which by the way, if any of you reading this are against same-sex marriage, let me just call you what you are. You're a bigot. Plain and simple. You want to restrict the rights of me, and people like me, and for what? Why? Because of the Bible? Well, bigot, the Bible is filled with passages that you and I both disagree with. That's not it. It's because you're prejudiced. It's because we're different and you don't like us. Don't try and paint it any other way, because that's the truth.
What's that? I'm wrong? Well then, prove it by changing your opinion on this issue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with your personal life. And until you do, I'll just call you what you are. A bigot.
what the fucking hell
I mean they vote down TABOR which is horrible and stupid but do this
what.
edit:
country looks better without them anyway
Edit: Although not being confused about which Portland people are talking about would sure be nice.
*Edit* Also applies to California, obviously.
I am heart-broken tonight by Maine, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise.
Somehow losing by this tiny margin is brutalizing. And because this is a vote on my dignity as a human being, it is hard not to take it personally or emotionally. But I also know that the history of civil rights movements has many steps backward as forward, and some of those reversals actually catalyze the convictions that lead to victories. A decade ago, the marriage issue was toxic. Now it divides evenly. Soon, it will win everywhere.
I know for many younger gays and lesbians, this process can seem bewildering and hurtful. But I'm old enough now to be able to look back and see the hill we have climbed in such a short amount of time, and the minds and hearts we have changed. Including our own.
Know hope.
So, call the IRS free hotline a dozen times and ask about filing joint taxes and whatever, just be a general nuisance of yourselves. Since there is no logical reason, it will take ages.
I got something about having voting referendums on tax increases and spending measures, and something about giving Maine a shitload of money to maintain and improve their roads and bridges and such (which I voted yes on in the most forceful manner possible) but I didn't get anything about taxes only increasing with inflation
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
You never started?
I always thought of it as just America's appendix.
I wouldn't venture into the election day thread then; bigot in there almost made me punch a wall.
Hey now, Maine is a nice place. Beautiful, friendly, and remote. A single vote can't take that away.
I'd say it did.
Bigots on the internet tend to just be trolling for lulz unless it's a place dedicated to bigotry like stormfront.
And of course there are people who genuinely believe as that poster in the other thread does, but you knew that already, it shouldn't get such a rise out of you when one posts on a forum.
Maybe if he said that shit in public or to you in person, but not on the internet.
My point is that it's best to remember that the internet is usually a very indirect means of communication especially when you're talking about a stranger on an internet forum.
All the vote did was illuminate the current opinion of voting citizens. It didn't actually change anything. The marriage law was enacted without a vote, and the vote repealed it. Regardless, that doesn't make the state deplorable. It's about individual people.
I'm not saying it's great but it ain't fuckin' Alabama or Kansas
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Kansas is a beautiful state full of incredibly friendly people. They're just by and large horribly misinformed about important stuff. Having a 95% white christian population in the single digit millions will do that.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.