I really hope we're going to see a full on resurrection. All they'd have to do is launch fresh servers. The game's graphics are passable, and would otherwise be a different game by definition.
I really really hope. I would love a full fresh start. There's so much content already there.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Hey Asheron's Call fans and players, for those I have not formally introduced myself to, I am the Save Asheron’s Call’s community manager. From the moment I heard that Asheron’s Call was shutting down, I knew something had to be done about it and I knew that with such a dedicated community, and an immense integral tie into the history of the MMORPG genre as a whole, there was no way that this game and the community could just slip away into screenshots and memories.
Asheron’s Call has had an immense impression in the direction of my life and the passion and motivation that drives me. Not only being the first game I was ever exposed to, it was also a game that my father and I would play together when I was young. Today, I am a practiced 3d artist, and the team lead of a small indie development team that I have run for 4 years. In challenging the current fate of the Asheron’s Call legacy, we can be the community that burns like a shining star in the face of the potential absence of one of the greatest MMORPG’s to exist.
That being said, after introducing myself, we have a great update to provide to all of you that we have been striving for intensely from the moment we began.
We want to keep the community updated with the progress we here at SaveAC have been making, and we have a lot to share! As our group grows, and as we move forward in trying to work with Warner Brothers, our team shifts with the fluidity that is needed. To that end, we would like to thank Carleton and Kelly Sharkey, and Mike Ramsey for their efforts in helping us get to where we need to go.
To begin, we have a lot of things that we need to cover, and we have a very short amount of time to accomplish what we have set out to do. So, here is a quick abbreviated explanation of what has been happened since our last announcement.
The important part: our attempts to find and contact the right people at Warner Brothers have been successful. We have had members of our community reach out and help us make contact with the right people in play, and that has been extremely helpful. We have learned there are multiple entities interested in acquiring the Asheron's Call IP. If any of those members are among this community that would like to help in our efforts, please contact us privately, and we can see where we are able to help one another. We cannot promise to be able to work with everyone, but we will make an effort if possible.
We were able to have a helpful and productive conversation with a member of the Warner Brothers staff, where we learned a lot about the challenges ahead as well as the lay of the land. We also have a much better understanding of the hoops we will need to jump through in order to make this happen. To that end, we are in the process of scheduling a meeting with WB to present our case before them. Additionally, we are in the process of creating a plan that outlines what we are offering, and what we are able to provide. Once this plan is finalized, we will allow everyone on here the ability to review it to show that we are holding true to our efforts in transparency.
Further, we've started to recruit former Asheron's Call Devs to help make this possible. You might have seen Jason Booth allude to this in his reddit AMA today https://www.reddit.com/r/AsheronsCall/comments/5nd27n and he was referring to us! We want to emphasize that we've only started this effort - we have a lot of details to work out. We have a long way to go, but we are committed to being as transparent as possible with anybody willing to volunteer with us. If you see this, and you're a former Turbine dev willing to help, please email acrequests@fgnservers.com for more information.
Going forward, we have a lot of work to do to prepare for our meetings with Warner Brothers. A lot. We're working hard!
The big takeaway is this. SaveAC has made official contact with WB. Other than SaveAC, there are several other entities (Companies, other "Save AC" type projects, etc) interested in acquiring Asheron's Call, so even if SaveAC is not successful, one of the other groups may be. The big worry at this point is there may be a bidding war brewing.
It's a survey they're asking as many AC players to fill out as possible. Basically, asking the common questions -- AC, AC2, Both; PK, PKL, None; If they had to re-institute a monthly fee what would be fair; if they could only save 2 servers would they prefer them to be fresh or consolidated, etc etc.
Hmm, haven't been keeping up with the SaveAC news as I should. What's this about saving servers?
SaveAC is trying to save AC by either buying or licensing the IP and server / client code from WB. Like how EA Broadsword licensed UO from ... whoever used to run them.
They originally thought it would be impossible to keep the original server data -- Personal Information law means WB couldn't transfer those to someone else. However they're now a bit more fuzzy on that.
If they can't save the servers, but still manage to Save AC, then we'll end up with 1 PVE and 1 PVP server, starting from scratch, with all the updates applied. This would be the "got the right to run a server but couldn't work out a deal to get WB's server database" solution.
They're also talking about the possibility of server merges even if they do get the original databases. So everyone would have X number of weeks to move their stuff from their houses to their mules, and then they'd all end up on 1 server and have to fight it out over housing again.
One thing we discovered is an AC "server" is 7 Quad Core 200mhz Pentiums running load balancing. Which ... seems easily done. However consolidating the servers is something that should have happened back in 2012, so... If it has to be done, this is a good opportunity to do it.
I am 18 million XP from level cap. My Monarch suggested it would be more fun to do so at the guild mansion when everyone's on tonight than in Forbidden Crypts, so eh, ok.
Hmm, haven't been keeping up with the SaveAC news as I should. What's this about saving servers?
SaveAC is trying to save AC by either buying or licensing the IP and server / client code from WB. Like how EA Broadsword licensed UO from ... whoever used to run them.
They originally thought it would be impossible to keep the original server data -- Personal Information law means WB couldn't transfer those to someone else. However they're now a bit more fuzzy on that.
If they can't save the servers, but still manage to Save AC, then we'll end up with 1 PVE and 1 PVP server, starting from scratch, with all the updates applied. This would be the "got the right to run a server but couldn't work out a deal to get WB's server database" solution.
They're also talking about the possibility of server merges even if they do get the original databases. So everyone would have X number of weeks to move their stuff from their houses to their mules, and then they'd all end up on 1 server and have to fight it out over housing again.
One thing we discovered is an AC "server" is 7 Quad Core 200mhz Pentiums running load balancing. Which ... seems easily done. However consolidating the servers is something that should have happened back in 2012, so... If it has to be done, this is a good opportunity to do it.
I am 18 million XP from level cap. My Monarch suggested it would be more fun to do so at the guild mansion when everyone's on tonight than in Forbidden Crypts, so eh, ok.
Thanks for the info, and grats on the impending level cap.
If possible, keeping everyone's characters would be amazing. I just hope the Frostfell Museum guy is still out there; would be a shame to lose that.
edit: wait, reread the post (haven't had coffee yet, therefore brain = no), I guess the housing stuff would technically remain intact? Before the hypothetical merger, I mean. Exciting!
So my three "mains" are Daija (from "大蛇," or Dai Ja, huge snake / serpent), Sha Shu (from "しゃしゅ," Japanese for Archer), and Wa (the sound I made when trying to play a mage in AC back in 2001).
Oh crap oh crap oh crap rubber band WAAAAA!~
Daija wasn't quite my first character, but I don't remember the original one (other than that I took Bow at like level 8, which on a melee isn't smart). Daija was "3 school Spear", based around a snake based spear that was in the game back then. Had a lot of trouble trying to pick a weapon, torn between going UA (for the free skill credits) or going Sword (because it was the best) or what have you.
Sha Shu, when I returned one time, ended up being pretty much fully reset. Originally my intent was a fully self sufficient character -- Crossbow (because it was different than Bows that everyone was using), Alchemy, Fletching. I returned sometime after they added Summoning, and Archer/Summoning is apparently one of the two builds that really dominates the endgame now, so that's him now.
Wa was originally I believe an Og Mage. That's why I was so glad to get a 2 letter name. Wa... was the last character I had left in my original Allegiance. I remember returning once just in time to see the Mansion's timer ticking down, and trying to get together enough Writs to pay it's upkeep myself, but... logged in again and it was gone. Back in 2014 I decided I wanted to reroll some characters away from Sho, so I rerolled Wa as Empyrean. My new build is based on an "Opal Tank Mage," but with War swapped out for Void and Summoning added -- a "Onyx Tank Mage." This is the other build that's considered top tier in endgame.
Other characters...
Ankoku (暗黒, Darkness), a Sho UA that I kept secret from my patron, I wanted to be able to show him I could play without needing twinking et all. I rerolled her Shadow at the same time I rerolled Wa, still kinda wish I had gone the shadow without legs type.
Xaoten Ki (name based on two of the example names for Sho) was an Axer, for a change of pace from Spears. Got further with him than Daija.
Marteau de Guerre (Hammer of War, or Warhammer) was a Viamontian macer, got further with him than anything -- level 111. He's still sworn to my original patron's best friend at the time, Winterblade.
Xython, which is a character name I use when others aren't available, an undead with flaming skull... Heavy Weapon (Dagger) Dual Wield Dirty Fighter. The idea was an Undead Rogue type.
And Von Neumann (a name for a certain theoretical type of self replicating machine), a Gearknight 2 Hander user. Gearknights are weird. 2h is weird. He's weird. I got him out of the tutorial and parked him in front of the stipend guys.
No lugian or tumerok. They look weird.
In retrospect, a lot of my characters in AC were constant attempts to find the sweet spot of "Hit thing with stick." They almost always devolved into Weapon + 3 school. I couldn't quite get the hang of Archers, and Mages felt weird. In other MMOs, this kinda equates to "Keep Calm and Roll DPS."
In the end, Daija will hit the level cap but not get Enlightened, which is sad. Would have loved to log out for the last time at level 1 again. Sha Shu is 50, Wa is 49, spent time with Wa getting the hang of magic and doing the Assault Orb quest last night. If I pushed it I could probably get Sha Shu / Wa leeched to 126 on Withereds with the last few weeks. Probably will instead aim for Tier 8 gear instead.
If I had to restart... would definitely aim for one of the non-Isparian races. Shadow, Empyrean, maybe Gear Knight. Probably Void Mage or Archer instead of Melee.
Today marks an important milestone for us at SaveAC. As of today, after a number of phone conversations and vetting, we have formally submitted a business proposal to Warner Brothers. At this point in time, we would like to peel back the curtains a little bit, and let you know what that looks like.
Here are the key points of the proposal. Remember, we have to pitch a business to WB. They have no interest in dealing with a bunch of bozos who won’t be able to pay bills in a month or who have no idea what it takes to keep servers running.
1) We want to lease the IP for Asheron’s Call 1. Unfortunately, and for reasons that we cannot share, getting AC 2 is still apart of the picture, but logistically might not be feasible. Additionally, buying the IP is not viable. WB has already stated that they are not interested in selling the IP at this time.
2) Subscriptions are being considered as a primary source of revenue. No, we don’t know the price points, but it remains the best option for revenue generation. And before you ask, we don’t know what will happen with “lifetime” subscriptions. We realize that subscriptions without content are a tough sell, but goodwill doesn’t pay for servers and bandwidth.
3) AC’s servers will be migrated to open-source-stack technology. Warner Brothers couldn’t justify keeping the game running with the existing software license fees associated with the game, and neither can we. Our proposal hinges on moving the servers to modern OSes and a free database platform. This fully enables the next point.
4) Releasing the AC Server as open-source. We are committed to finishing the project started by Severlin as demanded by the community.
5) Migration of existing accounts and characters. This is something we are committed to obtaining. Unfortunately we cannot promise something that we can not guarantee. We will do everything we can, but the realization is that this might be something we simply cannot achieve.
We know you are going to have a lot of questions, so we want to answer a few of them preemptively.
Q: Does this mean you saved AC?
A: No, not yet. We are only in negotiations. This is what we are asking.
Q: You mentioned account migration. How will that work?
A: To be determined.
Q: What about the number of servers? Are you going to consolidate servers?
A: As part of minimizing operation cost, consolidating servers is being considered (but not Darktide).
Q: If you consolidate servers, what about housing?
A: To be determined. Our hands will likely be tied by technical constraints.
Q: How much will subscriptions cost?
A: There are many different scenarios that we will be discussing, however we need greater clarity from WB before we can officially announce anything.
Q: How on earth are you guys going to pull this off?
A: We have over 20 volunteers, many of whom are former Turbine employees, who are dedicated to seeing this become a reality.
Q: Will there be a gap in service after Jan 31?
A: To be determined. We doubt that we can have our stuff ready for Feb 1, so this is part of negotiations.
Q: Will you guys be crowdfunding somehow?
A: We don't know just yet. It is an option though if we have to go this route.
Q: Are you qualified to do this?
A: Absolutely. We will identify the core members of the team and their professional backgrounds at a later time.
The takeaways.
WB wants to keep the IP. That's surprising (they appeared to be pretty much done with the game) but not entirely unexpected. AC2 may be doomed again. They'll need to pay for things and that's likely going to be Subscriptions. A major part of everything hinges on porting AC to something like MySQL and Linux, instead of Microsoft's proprietary server software stuff.
Apparently a large group of Turbine folks are part of the team, so they actually have some clout.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
The slim chance SaveAC becomes huge, and you can get something out of the work they did?
Like as a business it would feel pretty shitty to just sell something to someone who then takes off with it, knowing full well they were 100% willing to just "borrow" because they just want to keep playing. It likely doesn't change the fact they still don't care about it though.
Of course there could just be someone there who important enough that would one day like to convince someone to make a new game in some form with the IP because they like it.
Imagine an Asheron's Call movie franchise akin to LOTR?
It's very possible that WB may be keeping the IP for just in case
Zach Snyder gets bored with making shitty DC movies and wants to run another franchise into the ground
To respond seriously to the joke, a CG animated series like SW Rebels would be a practical fit. Spend the first 5 minutes summarizing the Emperyans, the olthoi invasion, and Asheron's magic, like the intro to Fellowship of the Ring. You could make an entire season about Cragstone's group of plucky resistance fighters. Mid-season finale he rescues Elysa, end-season finale he gets skewered by the olthoi queen. Could probably turn each monthly content patch into its own episode, with plenty of filler available in the form of side quests. Cameo appearances for classic items, famous NPCs, maybe even throw in some easter egg references to actual player characters.
It took 13 years, but Daija has now hit the original Asheron's Call level cap. What better place to do it in than in the place I grinded at the most early on -- the Forbidden Crypts next to Al-Jalima, wielding an Atlan Weapon, in Shadow Armor?
Dalvenge, Winterblade, Shakra, Dreadmagus, Karesta, ForgetMeNot... it took me a while, but I did it.
As I like to start each and every announcement that I have made, I would like to thank everyone for their continued support in the project that we are undertaking. Today, I have an announcement that makes posting this a little difficult, but it needs to be put out there.
We have received communication from Warner Brothers that they are not entertaining any offers when it comes to the intellectual property of Asheron's Call at this time. While there have been many claims made outside of our efforts, we have been told, in writing, that Warner Brothers is "not able to keep the game running or entertaining offers to provide the game to a third party."
We are unsure if this is something we should take at face value or if it is a tactic to protect themselves in some legal sense. We have complied with every request that has been made of us, and we have given the information freely to Warner Brothers. While we have requested further information as to the reasoning behind the communication breakdown, we continue to negotiate with them on these matters. There are multiple different avenues that we will be exploring, along with viable options towards advancing our goals in Saving Asheron's Call.
At this time, there are 4 options in front of us while we continue negotiating with Warner Brothers:
Option 1 - We continue down the same path of negotiating with Warner Brothers to get at the heart of the matter. That is, find out why WB is "not able" to entertain offers and go from there.
Option 2 - We work on creating a Historical Server, which means we would have to create a fundraiser to pay the developers something for their efforts.
Option 3 - We explore the option of working on a Spiritual Successor to Asheron's Call, which would require several levels of fundraising, negotiations with current developers and other game development studios, etc.
Option 4 - We pursue an emulator path, which may or may not mean joining efforts with other groups already on this path.
Please respond to the survey so that we can gauge which option you are most interested in us pursuing at this time. The survey can be found at https://goo.gl/forms/BhCf4UKNFuBhqmL72 . Thank you again for your time, and we look forward to your responses.
Basically, WB has said no deal. Or more specifically, they said they will not allow anyone to do anything to let AC or AC2 continue past the 31st.
AC is dead. There will be no last minute miracle, no community takeover, no private servers. A 17 year old IP that is one of the pillars of modern MMORPG gaming is heading into the dustbin of history for no good reason.
The game's ran on 7 quad core 200 mhz machines. ANYONE could host that.
There are several emulator efforts that have begun.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
(I can't copy/paste the text because Facebook is fucking stupid.)
Basically, WB has said no deal. Or more specifically, they said they will not allow anyone to do anything to let AC or AC2 continue past the 31st.
AC is dead. There will be no last minute miracle, no community takeover, no private servers. A 17 year old IP that is one of the pillars of modern MMORPG gaming is heading into the dustbin of history for no good reason.
The game's ran on 7 quad core 200 mhz machines. ANYONE could host that.
There are several emulator efforts that have begun.
I hope the emulators happen, and happen more quickly than the SWG emulator project. I know they've done a lot of good work on that thing, but I've given up hope of it ever actually happening.
There's someone in a back room denying this deal because they want to launch the IP as a mobile gacha.
All the anger.
I'd be all for a mobile gacha (AC-themed or more likely AC characters in a WB gacha). But not at the expense of losing the original game.
Not giving money to WB (for something or other) is going to be more difficult than not giving money to NCSoft has been for me, since WB has a lot of other stuff they make.
There's simply no way they'd just refuse to sell an IP and let it die. I've heard rumors there's a poison pill attached to Turbine / AC that prevents them from letting the IP go (buying the studio outright, however, is a different story). I've also heard rumors that they already sold AC and haven't announced it yet, or that there's an AC game coming down the pipe (possibly a mobile cash grab).
I was just going to post that.. what the fuck is going on behind the scenes there?
There could be any number of things going on. In no particular order:
1. Turbine / WB could have an AC3 / AC Relaunch in the works. (Unlikely, as mentioned in that interview all MMORPG devs left to go to SSG.)
2. Turbine / WB could have an unrelated (MOBA / Mobile) game with the AC IP in the works. (Possible, as they kept the Turbine name and are obsessed with Mobile gaming now.)
3. WB could have an AC movie in the works. (Unlikely, but the AC lore is quite extensive and would make a good fantasy film.)
4. There could be a poison pill attached to Turbine that would trigger if they tried to sell or license the AC IP. (For example, an old CEO or one of the founding Devs could have a contract that states they get 10% of any such sale, or something crazy.)
5. There could be lingering obligations on AC to Microsoft that prevents it. (For example, the server code could contain stuff they're licensing from Microsoft and cannot sublease or transfer.)
6. AC may have already been sold to another company. EA's Broadsword imprint, for example, specializes in these kinds of classic MMOs.
7. They may have in fact sold it to SSG with plans to relaunch it later, or launch it with fresh servers.
8. AC could be very unprofitable and they are attempting to write it off as a loss. Any profit from say, a sale or lease, would disrupt this.
With AC being pretty much impossible to do a server merger on (although the ex-Turbine devs in the SaveAC forum say it's possible but Turbine never let them) ... lets assume they wanted to shrink it down to 2 servers. Which one of the 8 PVE servers do you keep? No matter which one you pick you piss off 7 other servers. Why not just shut down the servers and relaunch it later, with a small subscription fee and all that?
Pipe dreams. We just don't know. It makes no goddamned sense what WB is doing. The IP is only valuable when the game exists. Taking the game down instantly destroys it's value.
Why was the decision made to form Standing Stone in the first place, how long ago did the process begin, and how complicated was it to move everything over from one studio to another?
Jerry Snook: The process has taken quite a while, due to all of the various factors that had to be worked out in order to make this a reality. This process began earlier in 2016, and took many months to get to a place where we were ready to announce the transition.
Rob Ciccolini: Take the worst-case scenario you can think of, then multiply it by 10.
They knew the AC thing wasn't happening a year ago. And they told none of us. The emulator projects could have started a year ago and gotten so much further in the same time.
Edit: Per the SaveAC team just now:
Latest word from WB as of this afternoon: the conversation is over, and "if the situation changes [WB] will make sure to inform [us]".
Door closed - only WB can open it.
So not only is WB not willing to work with anyone on the AC IP... they have cut off all communication with the community about it.
Seems like there's some kind of fuckery going on regarding the exact date of shutdown? WB and SSG are awfully reluctant to give any details. Maybe WB has some legal obligations that don't end until the game is "officially" shut down.
edit: maybe the "lifetime" sub thing is causing issues and WB can't transfer/sell/etc the game while those are valid. if so, then they probably wouldn't be able to talk about it.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I was just going to post that.. what the fuck is going on behind the scenes there?
There could be any number of things going on. In no particular order:
1. Turbine / WB could have an AC3 / AC Relaunch in the works. (Unlikely, as mentioned in that interview all MMORPG devs left to go to SSG.)
2. Turbine / WB could have an unrelated (MOBA / Mobile) game with the AC IP in the works. (Possible, as they kept the Turbine name and are obsessed with Mobile gaming now.)
3. WB could have an AC movie in the works. (Unlikely, but the AC lore is quite extensive and would make a good fantasy film.)
4. There could be a poison pill attached to Turbine that would trigger if they tried to sell or license the AC IP. (For example, an old CEO or one of the founding Devs could have a contract that states they get 10% of any such sale, or something crazy.)
5. There could be lingering obligations on AC to Microsoft that prevents it. (For example, the server code could contain stuff they're licensing from Microsoft and cannot sublease or transfer.)
6. AC may have already been sold to another company. EA's Broadsword imprint, for example, specializes in these kinds of classic MMOs.
7. They may have in fact sold it to SSG with plans to relaunch it later, or launch it with fresh servers.
8. AC could be very unprofitable and they are attempting to write it off as a loss. Any profit from say, a sale or lease, would disrupt this.
With AC being pretty much impossible to do a server merger on (although the ex-Turbine devs in the SaveAC forum say it's possible but Turbine never let them) ... lets assume they wanted to shrink it down to 2 servers. Which one of the 8 PVE servers do you keep? No matter which one you pick you piss off 7 other servers. Why not just shut down the servers and relaunch it later, with a small subscription fee and all that?
Pipe dreams. We just don't know. It makes no goddamned sense what WB is doing. The IP is only valuable when the game exists. Taking the game down instantly destroys it's value.
8 sounds like the thing that would make the most sense in todays world. The game had to have been losing money for a long time even running on zero equipment.
I was just going to post that.. what the fuck is going on behind the scenes there?
There could be any number of things going on. In no particular order:
1. Turbine / WB could have an AC3 / AC Relaunch in the works. (Unlikely, as mentioned in that interview all MMORPG devs left to go to SSG.)
2. Turbine / WB could have an unrelated (MOBA / Mobile) game with the AC IP in the works. (Possible, as they kept the Turbine name and are obsessed with Mobile gaming now.)
3. WB could have an AC movie in the works. (Unlikely, but the AC lore is quite extensive and would make a good fantasy film.)
4. There could be a poison pill attached to Turbine that would trigger if they tried to sell or license the AC IP. (For example, an old CEO or one of the founding Devs could have a contract that states they get 10% of any such sale, or something crazy.)
5. There could be lingering obligations on AC to Microsoft that prevents it. (For example, the server code could contain stuff they're licensing from Microsoft and cannot sublease or transfer.)
6. AC may have already been sold to another company. EA's Broadsword imprint, for example, specializes in these kinds of classic MMOs.
7. They may have in fact sold it to SSG with plans to relaunch it later, or launch it with fresh servers.
8. AC could be very unprofitable and they are attempting to write it off as a loss. Any profit from say, a sale or lease, would disrupt this.
With AC being pretty much impossible to do a server merger on (although the ex-Turbine devs in the SaveAC forum say it's possible but Turbine never let them) ... lets assume they wanted to shrink it down to 2 servers. Which one of the 8 PVE servers do you keep? No matter which one you pick you piss off 7 other servers. Why not just shut down the servers and relaunch it later, with a small subscription fee and all that?
Pipe dreams. We just don't know. It makes no goddamned sense what WB is doing. The IP is only valuable when the game exists. Taking the game down instantly destroys it's value.
8 sounds like the thing that would make the most sense in todays world. The game had to have been losing money for a long time even running on zero equipment.
Well, imagine if you just got done feeding your corporate overlords a line of bullshit about why this ancient IP is a constant loss, how no one wants it, how it'd be better to write it off and call it good...
Then suddenly tens of thousands of people including a viral video that has millions of hits and trended across social media start making it pretty damned blatant that the only reason the IP isn't doing well is because no one's given it any maintenance or care...
Maybe you do your best not to let anything change that perception? And having other people suddenly successfully take over the game and run it as a nonprofit or small business might not be something you want to explain to your boss...
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Yeah as much as you or me would like to think, those numbers are not overwhelmingly convincing for a big company. I think it might be topped in the low ten thousands, and thats not going to sound like some kind of drastic IP saving number to a big shot who likely pulls up metrics for "MMO" and comes up with numbers for WoW, FF14, and GW2 and then just laughs.
They were likely putting money into at least a few devs to fix issues and a larger networking crew to maintain the ancient technology running a game that was being ripped apart by shitty hackers because they smelled blood in the water. It likely cost more even just for that than the few people signed up to the game were providing, then it went free and it got even worse.
As awesome as the support it has gotten now sounds to US who are basing that on the numbers the game has pulled over its life, those numbers sound like nothing to anyone in a bigger successful company. It is much more likely that like you said, they can write off the loss and taking in any money for the game in any form would cause huge issues with that.
Telling them case closed is pretty much just higher ups going all "ain't nobody got time for dat" on them.
I don't think WB is planning on doing anything with an IP that might have hit 25k subscribers in its heyday, over 15 years ago. Its just a small thorn in their financial side and they are picking it off and throwing it in the trash in front of the kid who is asking for it.
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citizen059hello my name is citizenI'm from the InternetRegistered Userregular
I have to admit, this is the most frustrating MMO closing I've dealt with since EA killed off Motor City Online. It's the silence from WB/Turbine more than anything.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
The only other truly big MMO ending I know about was COH. I mean I am sure MMOs have died over the years but there are small side ones that honestly never lived, and there are ones like COH and AC that made impacts in the genre and were pretty much either unique and/or considered the main MMO to some people.
So I was not involved with the COH franchise when it was killed off, but my impression from a little reading in their thread was it was just as bad as this. The sad thing is that game is proof that WB could straight up just let this die without a care for if people don't want it to or not. I guess there is just way too much paperwork involved in these things to just let players have the game instead of deleting it forever.
The only other truly big MMO ending I know about was COH. I mean I am sure MMOs have died over the years but there are small side ones that honestly never lived, and there are ones like COH and AC that made impacts in the genre and were pretty much either unique and/or considered the main MMO to some people.
So I was not involved with the COH franchise when it was killed off, but my impression from a little reading in their thread was it was just as bad as this. The sad thing is that game is proof that WB could straight up just let this die without a care for if people don't want it to or not. I guess there is just way too much paperwork involved in these things to just let players have the game instead of deleting it forever.
CoH's closure was infuriating. It was never proven, but suspected that NCSoft's golden child Lineage (or was it L2? I forget) was shitting the bed in terms of sales, and CoH would make an excellent tax writeoff to offset the losses.
The community's attempts to parlay with NCSoft were initially rebuffed, due to not adhering to proper Korean business decorum or some shit. The eventual response indicated a willingness to sell... for a hilariously high price. So that didn't happen, and the eight-year-old game, which was still profitable and had a sizable player base, went *poof*.
AC is a bit different, since the game has been hosted effectively for free for a couple of years now. There's not much of a writeoff for something that's basically a negative profit margin to begin with. My money's on the lifetime subs being a sticking point somewhere, but whether it's stopping them from giving/selling/leasing/etc the game to the community, handing it over to SSG, or something else entirely, I can't guess.
Official shutdown will occur Jan 31st, 2017 at 12 noon EST.
They misspelled Asheron in the announcement.
Taking some away from the rumor that they have something planned for Feb 1st, they're also shutting down the official forum at the same time, cutting off all contact with the community.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think the only glimmer of hope remaining is that WB already had a deal in place with Standing Stone Games for the AC IP and neither company can talk about it until after the 1st or SSG is working on an AC3/remake as their first new game and waiting until they have something to show.
Please let this happen. I will certainly be keeping an eye on what SSG does besides keeping DDO/LOTRO alive.
I imagine SSG would love to get their own IP going. DDO/LOTRO are good but working with a licensed IP is hard. All it takes is one pissed off bean counter to end your working relationship and then you're out of business.
There are persistent rumors that AC has some form of baggage that's preventing WB from giving it to someone else. Not sure if that's true.
What is really goddamned weird is that SSG flat out REFUSES to talk about AC. At all. That gives me hope there's some positive reason for that, but I just don't know.
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I really really hope. I would love a full fresh start. There's so much content already there.
Because of this awesome dude.
Save AC Update.
The big takeaway is this. SaveAC has made official contact with WB. Other than SaveAC, there are several other entities (Companies, other "Save AC" type projects, etc) interested in acquiring Asheron's Call, so even if SaveAC is not successful, one of the other groups may be. The big worry at this point is there may be a bidding war brewing.
The head of SaveAC posted this as well:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScpwL60WWg5c_6b3F2mMAymBiA80Hl08t_V7OyD0yJLEXHeow/viewform?c=0&w=1
It's a survey they're asking as many AC players to fill out as possible. Basically, asking the common questions -- AC, AC2, Both; PK, PKL, None; If they had to re-institute a monthly fee what would be fair; if they could only save 2 servers would they prefer them to be fresh or consolidated, etc etc.
I swear to god WB, if you shut me down 500m XP away from level cap, I am going to blow a gasket.
SaveAC is trying to save AC by either buying or licensing the IP and server / client code from WB. Like how EA Broadsword licensed UO from ... whoever used to run them.
They originally thought it would be impossible to keep the original server data -- Personal Information law means WB couldn't transfer those to someone else. However they're now a bit more fuzzy on that.
If they can't save the servers, but still manage to Save AC, then we'll end up with 1 PVE and 1 PVP server, starting from scratch, with all the updates applied. This would be the "got the right to run a server but couldn't work out a deal to get WB's server database" solution.
They're also talking about the possibility of server merges even if they do get the original databases. So everyone would have X number of weeks to move their stuff from their houses to their mules, and then they'd all end up on 1 server and have to fight it out over housing again.
One thing we discovered is an AC "server" is 7 Quad Core 200mhz Pentiums running load balancing. Which ... seems easily done. However consolidating the servers is something that should have happened back in 2012, so... If it has to be done, this is a good opportunity to do it.
I am 18 million XP from level cap. My Monarch suggested it would be more fun to do so at the guild mansion when everyone's on tonight than in Forbidden Crypts, so eh, ok.
Thanks for the info, and grats on the impending level cap.
If possible, keeping everyone's characters would be amazing. I just hope the Frostfell Museum guy is still out there; would be a shame to lose that.
edit: wait, reread the post (haven't had coffee yet, therefore brain = no), I guess the housing stuff would technically remain intact? Before the hypothetical merger, I mean. Exciting!
Oh crap oh crap oh crap rubber band WAAAAA!~
Daija wasn't quite my first character, but I don't remember the original one (other than that I took Bow at like level 8, which on a melee isn't smart). Daija was "3 school Spear", based around a snake based spear that was in the game back then. Had a lot of trouble trying to pick a weapon, torn between going UA (for the free skill credits) or going Sword (because it was the best) or what have you.
Sha Shu, when I returned one time, ended up being pretty much fully reset. Originally my intent was a fully self sufficient character -- Crossbow (because it was different than Bows that everyone was using), Alchemy, Fletching. I returned sometime after they added Summoning, and Archer/Summoning is apparently one of the two builds that really dominates the endgame now, so that's him now.
Wa was originally I believe an Og Mage. That's why I was so glad to get a 2 letter name. Wa... was the last character I had left in my original Allegiance. I remember returning once just in time to see the Mansion's timer ticking down, and trying to get together enough Writs to pay it's upkeep myself, but... logged in again and it was gone. Back in 2014 I decided I wanted to reroll some characters away from Sho, so I rerolled Wa as Empyrean. My new build is based on an "Opal Tank Mage," but with War swapped out for Void and Summoning added -- a "Onyx Tank Mage." This is the other build that's considered top tier in endgame.
Other characters...
Ankoku (暗黒, Darkness), a Sho UA that I kept secret from my patron, I wanted to be able to show him I could play without needing twinking et all. I rerolled her Shadow at the same time I rerolled Wa, still kinda wish I had gone the shadow without legs type.
Xaoten Ki (name based on two of the example names for Sho) was an Axer, for a change of pace from Spears. Got further with him than Daija.
Marteau de Guerre (Hammer of War, or Warhammer) was a Viamontian macer, got further with him than anything -- level 111. He's still sworn to my original patron's best friend at the time, Winterblade.
Xython, which is a character name I use when others aren't available, an undead with flaming skull... Heavy Weapon (Dagger) Dual Wield Dirty Fighter. The idea was an Undead Rogue type.
And Von Neumann (a name for a certain theoretical type of self replicating machine), a Gearknight 2 Hander user. Gearknights are weird. 2h is weird. He's weird. I got him out of the tutorial and parked him in front of the stipend guys.
No lugian or tumerok. They look weird.
In retrospect, a lot of my characters in AC were constant attempts to find the sweet spot of "Hit thing with stick." They almost always devolved into Weapon + 3 school. I couldn't quite get the hang of Archers, and Mages felt weird. In other MMOs, this kinda equates to "Keep Calm and Roll DPS."
In the end, Daija will hit the level cap but not get Enlightened, which is sad. Would have loved to log out for the last time at level 1 again. Sha Shu is 50, Wa is 49, spent time with Wa getting the hang of magic and doing the Assault Orb quest last night. If I pushed it I could probably get Sha Shu / Wa leeched to 126 on Withereds with the last few weeks. Probably will instead aim for Tier 8 gear instead.
If I had to restart... would definitely aim for one of the non-Isparian races. Shadow, Empyrean, maybe Gear Knight. Probably Void Mage or Archer instead of Melee.
And you can't really go wrong with a shadow person using void magic, thematically (also void magic is a fun and interesting departure from war magic).
The takeaways.
WB wants to keep the IP. That's surprising (they appeared to be pretty much done with the game) but not entirely unexpected. AC2 may be doomed again. They'll need to pay for things and that's likely going to be Subscriptions. A major part of everything hinges on porting AC to something like MySQL and Linux, instead of Microsoft's proprietary server software stuff.
Apparently a large group of Turbine folks are part of the team, so they actually have some clout.
Like as a business it would feel pretty shitty to just sell something to someone who then takes off with it, knowing full well they were 100% willing to just "borrow" because they just want to keep playing. It likely doesn't change the fact they still don't care about it though.
Of course there could just be someone there who important enough that would one day like to convince someone to make a new game in some form with the IP because they like it.
It's very possible that WB may be keeping the IP for just in case
To respond seriously to the joke, a CG animated series like SW Rebels would be a practical fit. Spend the first 5 minutes summarizing the Emperyans, the olthoi invasion, and Asheron's magic, like the intro to Fellowship of the Ring. You could make an entire season about Cragstone's group of plucky resistance fighters. Mid-season finale he rescues Elysa, end-season finale he gets skewered by the olthoi queen. Could probably turn each monthly content patch into its own episode, with plenty of filler available in the form of side quests. Cameo appearances for classic items, famous NPCs, maybe even throw in some easter egg references to actual player characters.
Shit, now I want this to happen.
Dalvenge, Winterblade, Shakra, Dreadmagus, Karesta, ForgetMeNot... it took me a while, but I did it.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/220081501774287?view=pinned&refid=18
Basically, WB has said no deal. Or more specifically, they said they will not allow anyone to do anything to let AC or AC2 continue past the 31st.
AC is dead. There will be no last minute miracle, no community takeover, no private servers. A 17 year old IP that is one of the pillars of modern MMORPG gaming is heading into the dustbin of history for no good reason.
The game's ran on 7 quad core 200 mhz machines. ANYONE could host that.
There are several emulator efforts that have begun.
I hope the emulators happen, and happen more quickly than the SWG emulator project. I know they've done a lot of good work on that thing, but I've given up hope of it ever actually happening.
Interview with that grandpa from the viral video. Kinda hits ya right here in spots.
Fucking stupid greedy corporations.
There's someone in a back room denying this deal because they want to launch the IP as a mobile gacha.
All the anger.
I'd be all for a mobile gacha (AC-themed or more likely AC characters in a WB gacha). But not at the expense of losing the original game.
Not giving money to WB (for something or other) is going to be more difficult than not giving money to NCSoft has been for me, since WB has a lot of other stuff they make.
http://massivelyop.com/2017/01/20/massively-op-interview-standing-stone-on-lotro-ddo-and-daybreak/
(Standing Stone Games used to be named "Turbine" before WB absorbed and spat out the studio.)
That's... odd.
Edit: Jerry is Cordovan, Rob (the head of SSG) is Severlin.
There could be any number of things going on. In no particular order:
1. Turbine / WB could have an AC3 / AC Relaunch in the works. (Unlikely, as mentioned in that interview all MMORPG devs left to go to SSG.)
2. Turbine / WB could have an unrelated (MOBA / Mobile) game with the AC IP in the works. (Possible, as they kept the Turbine name and are obsessed with Mobile gaming now.)
3. WB could have an AC movie in the works. (Unlikely, but the AC lore is quite extensive and would make a good fantasy film.)
4. There could be a poison pill attached to Turbine that would trigger if they tried to sell or license the AC IP. (For example, an old CEO or one of the founding Devs could have a contract that states they get 10% of any such sale, or something crazy.)
5. There could be lingering obligations on AC to Microsoft that prevents it. (For example, the server code could contain stuff they're licensing from Microsoft and cannot sublease or transfer.)
6. AC may have already been sold to another company. EA's Broadsword imprint, for example, specializes in these kinds of classic MMOs.
7. They may have in fact sold it to SSG with plans to relaunch it later, or launch it with fresh servers.
8. AC could be very unprofitable and they are attempting to write it off as a loss. Any profit from say, a sale or lease, would disrupt this.
With AC being pretty much impossible to do a server merger on (although the ex-Turbine devs in the SaveAC forum say it's possible but Turbine never let them) ... lets assume they wanted to shrink it down to 2 servers. Which one of the 8 PVE servers do you keep? No matter which one you pick you piss off 7 other servers. Why not just shut down the servers and relaunch it later, with a small subscription fee and all that?
Pipe dreams. We just don't know. It makes no goddamned sense what WB is doing. The IP is only valuable when the game exists. Taking the game down instantly destroys it's value.
They knew the AC thing wasn't happening a year ago. And they told none of us. The emulator projects could have started a year ago and gotten so much further in the same time.
Edit: Per the SaveAC team just now:
So not only is WB not willing to work with anyone on the AC IP... they have cut off all communication with the community about it.
edit: maybe the "lifetime" sub thing is causing issues and WB can't transfer/sell/etc the game while those are valid. if so, then they probably wouldn't be able to talk about it.
8 sounds like the thing that would make the most sense in todays world. The game had to have been losing money for a long time even running on zero equipment.
Well, imagine if you just got done feeding your corporate overlords a line of bullshit about why this ancient IP is a constant loss, how no one wants it, how it'd be better to write it off and call it good...
Then suddenly tens of thousands of people including a viral video that has millions of hits and trended across social media start making it pretty damned blatant that the only reason the IP isn't doing well is because no one's given it any maintenance or care...
Maybe you do your best not to let anything change that perception? And having other people suddenly successfully take over the game and run it as a nonprofit or small business might not be something you want to explain to your boss...
Who knows.
I've worked with those kind of people.
They were likely putting money into at least a few devs to fix issues and a larger networking crew to maintain the ancient technology running a game that was being ripped apart by shitty hackers because they smelled blood in the water. It likely cost more even just for that than the few people signed up to the game were providing, then it went free and it got even worse.
As awesome as the support it has gotten now sounds to US who are basing that on the numbers the game has pulled over its life, those numbers sound like nothing to anyone in a bigger successful company. It is much more likely that like you said, they can write off the loss and taking in any money for the game in any form would cause huge issues with that.
Telling them case closed is pretty much just higher ups going all "ain't nobody got time for dat" on them.
I don't think WB is planning on doing anything with an IP that might have hit 25k subscribers in its heyday, over 15 years ago. Its just a small thorn in their financial side and they are picking it off and throwing it in the trash in front of the kid who is asking for it.
So I was not involved with the COH franchise when it was killed off, but my impression from a little reading in their thread was it was just as bad as this. The sad thing is that game is proof that WB could straight up just let this die without a care for if people don't want it to or not. I guess there is just way too much paperwork involved in these things to just let players have the game instead of deleting it forever.
If this was all a plot to kill lifetime subs / F2P, I will be both very cross and relieved.
CoH's closure was infuriating. It was never proven, but suspected that NCSoft's golden child Lineage (or was it L2? I forget) was shitting the bed in terms of sales, and CoH would make an excellent tax writeoff to offset the losses.
The community's attempts to parlay with NCSoft were initially rebuffed, due to not adhering to proper Korean business decorum or some shit. The eventual response indicated a willingness to sell... for a hilariously high price. So that didn't happen, and the eight-year-old game, which was still profitable and had a sizable player base, went *poof*.
AC is a bit different, since the game has been hosted effectively for free for a couple of years now. There's not much of a writeoff for something that's basically a negative profit margin to begin with. My money's on the lifetime subs being a sticking point somewhere, but whether it's stopping them from giving/selling/leasing/etc the game to the community, handing it over to SSG, or something else entirely, I can't guess.
They misspelled Asheron in the announcement.
Taking some away from the rumor that they have something planned for Feb 1st, they're also shutting down the official forum at the same time, cutting off all contact with the community.
This is how we will be remembered.
Please let this happen. I will certainly be keeping an eye on what SSG does besides keeping DDO/LOTRO alive.
There are persistent rumors that AC has some form of baggage that's preventing WB from giving it to someone else. Not sure if that's true.
What is really goddamned weird is that SSG flat out REFUSES to talk about AC. At all. That gives me hope there's some positive reason for that, but I just don't know.