[Wii Hardware] Can the Wii remain viable?

Eteric

I'm bringing this here, as I think it'd be an interesting dicussion. On another forum, on a web server far, far away, one member asked the question, "will the Wii be valid in 2 or 3 years?" This started a huge debate about graphics, gameplay, HD, etc etc etc. The question is, with the Wii's lower end hardware, do you think it will still be able to compete 2 to 3 years from now? Or, will the Wii simply be dead. Will the graphical difference bug people that much?

What do you think?

Oh, and a comparison that was posted there.

(I have to post the links, still jailed)

http://njiska.netfirms.com/photo/nfpicturepro/albums/userpics/10001/807_0007.jpg
http://njiska.netfirms.com/photo/nfpicturepro/albums/userpics/10001/807_0007%20-%20360.jpg

I'd post a link to the actual forum, but I'm not sure if that's allowed. If it is, let me know and I'll do so.

Anyway, if there's something I'm leaving out, I apologise. It's 6:19 AM, and because of Zelda I've yet to sleep.

Sixfortyfive

I don't really think it's a bigger matter than, you know, having a number of decent-to-great exclusives that people are willing to fork over their cash for.

I expect that Nintendo will be fine.

Rook

I'd still like to see what the Wii is actually capable of, considering most people's best looking game was just a gamecube port.

bananabread

I keep hearing that in most cases it can put out more than the original Xbox. If that's the case, then it's all good.

I don't need my games to look any better, especially if it means they can keep their budgets down and maybe take a few risks on more original ideas.

imbalanced

No seriously. I feel like we're on this roller coaster and it's only got one hill, and it's always going down. I could have lived with the Gamecube for another five years, so this system will be fine. Do we really need to talk about Nintendo failing every five minutes?

Eteric

For one, that picture is awesome. It's just so cute, but he looks like he's about to get hit in the face.

Oh, and it's been at least 15 minutes since we've had a "NINTENDOOMED" topic. :P

kouri1977

imbalanced wrote:

No seriously. I feel like we're on this roller coaster and it's only got one hill, and it's always going down. I could have lived with the Gamecube for another five years, so this system will be fine. Do we really need to talk about Nintendo failing every five minutes?

Nintendo to fail in 5 minutes!

imbalanced

I'm still waiting for somebody to mention, "Sony/Microsoft to buy Nintendo in 5 years," or the always popular "Nintendo should go software-only like Sega!"

Anybody? Aaaaanybody??

kouri1977

imbalanced wrote:

I'm still waiting for somebody to mention, "Sony/Microsoft to buy Nintendo in 5 years," or the always popular "Nintendo should go software-only like Sega!"

Anybody? Aaaaanybody??

Or link to the status page.

Dodge Aspen

imbalanced wrote:

I'm still waiting for somebody to mention, "Sony/Microsoft to buy Nintendo in 5 years," or the always popular "Nintendo should go software-only like Sega!"

Anybody? Aaaaanybody??

I used to be on the software only bandwagon. I am so glad that never happened, because then I wouldn't have a Wii, and would never know the joy of waggle.

Samphis

Was the DS doomed? Are people still posting comparison shots of DS games versus PSP games? Are both the DS and the Wii impossible to find in stores in pretty much every country right now due to demand? Yes.

Why are we still thinking this way?

Why can we not have competition?

McDonald's doesn't make Wendy's obsolete. I don't see fast food fanboys crying that one restaurant won't be financially or dietetically viable in a few years.

taliosfalcon

Samphis wrote:

Was the DS doomed? Are people still posting comparison shots of DS games versus PSP games? Are both the DS and the Wii impossible to find in stores in pretty much every country right now due to demand? Yes.

Why are we still thinking this way?

Why can we not have competition?

McDonald's doesn't make Wendy's obsolete. I don't see fast food fanboys crying that one restaurant won't be financially or dietetically viable in a few years.

thats because we already know taco bell will win the franchise wars

Æthelred

That's because people can eat at any restaurant they choose, whereas very few own two consoles.

Have we ever had a situation where competing consoles are this graphically divergent before? DS vs. PSP springs to mind; and the PS2 certainly more than held its own against the Xbox. It's easy to be caught up in the cock-waving contest most gaming sites egg on, but it remains to be seen whether graphics play that huge a factor in a game's success. Would Madden sell as well if it were graphically a little behind? I think so.

Mai-Kero

The gap between the 360 and the wii is smaller than the gap between the PS2 and the original Xbox. The difference is, the PS2 had a pretty long headstart, and japan hates microsoft.

In any event, once we start seeing games like Super Mario Galaxy, people will admit the Wii can put out some very nice looking stuff.

Eteric

Hopefully. But I hope the pretty games aren't *just* from Nintendo, and that third parties stop screwing around and make some good games.

Oh, and Wii Sports beat Oblivion, Gears of War, Zelda, etc as Time Magazine's GOTY.

http://www.time.com/time/topten/2006/videogames/01.html

*cheers*

Silvanos

Jesus christ. Nintendo has been around longer than many of the posters here, I think we can have some faith that they know what the hell they're doing.

bongi

Mai-Kero wrote:

The gap between the 360 and the wii is smaller than the gap between the PS2 and the original Xbox. The difference is, the PS2 had a pretty long headstart, and japan hates microsoft.

i disagree

but

it's kind of irrelevant

Athenor

Silvanos wrote:

Jesus christ. Nintendo has been around longer than every poster here, I think we can have some faith that they know what the hell they're doing.

Fix'd.


Happy Centennial, Nintendo!

KKprofit

Well, nintendo did not miscarry... and its a little late for an abortion. So I say, yes... yes it will remain viable.

Seems odd that this thread is even happening... lets start an "Is sony going out of business??" thread...

Malkor

Most people don't even know that their HD televisions aren't even connected to an HD signal. The whole joke about people not being able to program their VCRs didn't pop out of nowhere. There are more people playing simple games like Solitaire or minesweeper than care about the next GTA or Halo. The 'hardcore' will have the games they want for the Wii, but as long as Nintendo can create games that interest even a fraction of 'everyone esle' they'll be successful.

Eteric

Heh, my HDTV doesn't even have an HDMI cable yet. :P Probably won't until it's "required."

Nintendo needs to get Clubhouse Games, but for the Wii... With Wi-Fi Chess, Go, Backgammon, Shogi, etc.

mausmalone

Samphis wrote:

Was the DS doomed? Are people still posting comparison shots of DS games versus PSP games? Are both the DS and the Wii impossible to find in stores in pretty much every country right now due to demand? Yes.

Why are we still thinking this way?

Why can we not have competition?

McDonald's doesn't make Wendy's obsolete. I don't see fast food fanboys crying that one restaurant won't be financially or dietetically viable in a few years.

Forget competition... one of the reasons that the Wii is so sought-after is that it's being lusted over by the same people who would've never even given video games a second look a year ago.

Business-wise, Nintendo is going off into uncharted territories for video games. They may reap the spoils, they may be in for a rude awakening ... but the idea that any of us knows what we're talking about in this regard is a little absurd.

They've already got my money on the system, so as long as they keep bringing out exclusives like Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy, the Wii will be totally viable for me, and frankly that's all I really care about.

fightinfilipino

Nintendo has stated from the very beginning that they do not want to stick themselves in a "graphics" war, and that they'd rather make gameplay more fun instead. they made the hardware accessible for just about everyone with a regular TV and up in line with this.

in short, Nintendo, as always, has focused only on gameplay and making a machine that is meant to play games. in an odd way, it's a conservative strategy, but one that also requires a lot of risk-taking and imagination. because of this focus, Nintendo has tried to put forth the argument that ultimately, gameplay trumps graphics, and i think that even with Wii Sports, they've demonstrated that. in short, the hardware doesn't matter because it's usable by everyone and the gameplay experiences possible on the Wii are fun to everyone. us "hardcore" gamers might wince at the dated graphics a bit, but we'll buy Nintendo anyways. Nintendo's looking at a wider audience than just us, though.

so in two years, we might see increased penetration of HDTVs and HD-ready PCs. i don't think it's going to reach the levels of mass-market penetration, though. there's simply too much confusion for the average consumer around DRM, resolution, and formats for HDTVs to really make a push. the equipment involved also looks to remain too expensive for most people. and after two years have gone by, i think internet downloads are going to trump current HDTV technologies anyways.

in short, hardware's not the problem. the Wii can be played anywhere AND provide quality gaming and fun even with lesser polygons and lower resolutions. the Wii has also already made Nintendo gobs of money. what will support the Wii's staying power is third-party support later on. it won't be a lack of HD support, because HD doesn't even really support itself.

edit: i'm curious about the original thread in the other forum you're talking about, Eteric...this debate's been done to death here before and in hundreds of other places, internet or not. it sounds as if these guys are fumbling over the idea for the very first time...

Kewop Decam

All the Wii games are ugly. Yes, I just called Zelda ugly, but I don't care what the shit looks like. Too many games look good and stink like shit for me to care.

Samphis

How long would a post entitled "[DS] Can the DS remain viable?" last? Graphics are not everything. I'd rather have more fun than more pixels. Yes, I have a 360 as well, but the Wii gets as much play as it does, and I expect that to change when more games start coming out.

Lunker

Samphis wrote:

McDonald's doesn't make Wendy's obsolete. I don't see fast food fanboys crying that one restaurant won't be financially or dietetically viable in a few years.

STFU Wendork!!!!111! You know the Big Mac can push more calorie-polys than the Classic Single could even dream about! Classic Double? Moar like Single 1.5!!!

...seriously, it's really sad that this debate is being raged across the Internets everywhere. Especially when the PS2, by far the least capable hardware of the last generation, managed to outsell the competition by epic strides and perform the dark magicks needed to produce games that look as stunning as FF12 and Dragon Quest 8.

This is a bullshit question, especially on this forum, where we have many people rocking game consoles older than the median forumer age.

Unknown

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KurnDerak

I've even thought about how well nintendo will be able to hold up in the console wars with a graphically inferior system.
Do you know what has made this problem a very small problem?
2 things.
1)Innovation. If Nintendo can keep being innovative, and fun, than graphics can easily take a back seat.
2)Non-Gamers. I've talked to multiple people that aren't gamers, but are really interested in the Wii. If Nintendo really can get a large grasp on the market that doesn't normally game, than they will most likely not have a big problem with the graphics not being up to 360 or ps3.

Mastervastere

I feel like a fucking freak and I feel alone.

You know why?

Because I think DS and Wii games look just great thankyouverymuch.

Samphis

Mastervastere wrote:

I feel like a fucking freak and I feel alone.

You know why?

Because I think DS and Wii games look just great thankyouverymuch.

Oh they look good, but when I switch from Viva Pinata to Excite Truck or Wii Sports, both running in 480p, I very much notice a big difference in texture quality and lighting. Granted, I'm comparing a launch game to third-generation game, but it'd be nice to see the sheer detail and quality on the Wii that the 360 can do.

But I loves me some Wii.

Terrorbyte

I think the Wii can look better, especially using stuff like Resident Evil 4 as an example of the hardware's technical ability. I mean, it won't look as good as the 360 or the PS3 and it won't do high-definition, but we will be seeing good looking games. Or, better looking games. The problem with the Wii hardware is the same as the GameCube's hardware - companies rarely utilize all its neat tricks to produce the best looking content possible.

Arguably, the reason behind that with the 'Cube was market share, the overwhelming success of the PS2 and the huge amount of shoddy ports. If the Wii can sustain high sales and give developers a reason to polish their games (a la the DS), then the hardware will be viable - it won't be the best, but it will be fully utilized and that will be good enough.

As for HD, I'd like to see sales numbers over the holidays. There was a HUGE push for 'em at retail, but I'm really wondering if the demand has grown even stronger after the past two exceptionally strong holidays. The Wii should be safe for the time being, but Nintendo better seriously consider HD for their next console or even an ability to upsample with a Wii revision down the road.

Samphis

Edit: Nevermind.

Lunker

Mastervastere wrote:

I feel like a fucking freak and I feel alone.

You know why?

Because I think DS and Wii games look just great thankyouverymuch.

Man, I was just saying to myself last night how I think Wii Sports is a beautiful game. Everyone's all "But they don't have arms!" and I couldn't give a shit. Do people think the Wii somehow can't visually process arms? It's clean and clear with very subtle visual tricks and blurs. I could sit there and golf all day.

On the other hand, something like Excite Truck, depending on the setup that you're viewing it on, can range from fugly to acceptable.

Mastervastere

Samphis wrote:

Mastervastere wrote:

I feel like a fucking freak and I feel alone.

You know why?

Because I think DS and Wii games look just great thankyouverymuch.

Oh they look good, but when I switch from Viva Pinata to Excite Truck or Wii Sports, both running in 480p, I very much notice a big difference in texture quality and lighting. Granted, I'm comparing a launch game to third-generation game, but it'd be nice to see the sheer detail and quality on the Wii that the 360 can do.

But I loves me some Wii.

I can't say I don't notice a difference between Viva Pinata/360 games and Wii software (I have a 360 too), but games like Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, Monkeyball BB, Zelda TP, etc and even Animal Crossing aren't going to age that much because they're essentially cartoons. We're way beyond the point that most 3d games look like blurry blocky almost unplayable shit (as some PS1, Saturn, N64 and old PC games looked).

I must admit that Call of Duty 3 looks nasty on the Wii but I expect that was just a hurried port....

There was never a part in Zelda TP where I thought it looked anything less than amazing. On the other hand when I first ventured out on Oblivion 360 my first thought was "Shit, that is the most DISGUSTING pop up I've seen for years!" It took me ages to get over it...

Kewop Decam

funny, the 480p thing doesn't bother me at all. IF the reports that it's stronger than an XBOX is true I have no worry about the whole 480p thing. Have you seen Chaos Theory in 480p? Game still looks amazing.

apotheos

There is a lot of interesting stuff to discuss here.

However, debating the actual quality of the Wii visuals isn't one of them as it is clearly well behind the competition. I'm assuming Nintendo knows the hardware best and that Zelda game looks nasty as hell in wide open spaces.

Couscous

apotheos wrote:

However, debating the actual quality of the Wii visuals isn't one of them as it is clearly well behind the competition. I'm assuming Nintendo knows the hardware best and that Zelda game looks nasty as hell in wide open spaces.

What does Zelda have to do with the Wii hardware? It was designed for the GC without 480p. It isn't like Nintendo is known for having good textures. Fantavision was made by Sony but it didn't exactly have great graphics in comparison to some of the stuff on the Dreamcast.

FyreWulff

Yeah, Zelda was a port. Not really something to judge the system's power off of.

It looks like Mario Galaxy will be the first Nintendo game to actually push the system a little bit.

Æthelred

Samphis wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

The problem with the Wii hardware is the same as the GameCube's hardware.

This is not true. It is much faster, has more RAM and a more robust graphics card.

It has relatively similar architecture, but that's like saying that a Pentium I PC with a Voodoo card is the same hardware as a Pentium III with a Geforce 4.

Quick, read it again more carefully and edit your post.

PatboyX

Mastervastere wrote:

Samphis wrote:

Mastervastere wrote:

I feel like a fucking freak and I feel alone.

You know why?

Because I think DS and Wii games look just great thankyouverymuch.

Oh they look good, but when I switch from Viva Pinata to Excite Truck or Wii Sports, both running in 480p, I very much notice a big difference in texture quality and lighting. Granted, I'm comparing a launch game to third-generation game, but it'd be nice to see the sheer detail and quality on the Wii that the 360 can do.

But I loves me some Wii.

I can't say I don't notice a difference between Viva Pinata/360 games and Wii software (I have a 360 too), but games like Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, Monkeyball BB, Zelda TP, etc and even Animal Crossing aren't going to age that much because they're essentially cartoons. We're way beyond the point that most 3d games look like blurry blocky almost unplayable shit (as some PS1, Saturn, N64 and old PC games looked).

I must admit that Call of Duty 3 looks nasty on the Wii but I expect that was just a hurried port....

There was never a part in Zelda TP where I thought it looked anything less than amazing. On the other hand when I first ventured out on Oblivion 360 my first thought was "Shit, that is the most DISGUSTING pop up I've seen for years!" It took me ages to get over it...

i dont really agree with the Zelda being timeless in the same way but the overall point you make is right on. while style should not trump gameplay, story, etc the fact that nintendo is constantly able to produce decent looking games for the current generation while focusing on new types of gameplay and solid titles pretty much puts them over for me. tons of their games are keepers...but when play games i loved for the PSX on my PS2 i cant help but notice the flaws in them all around.
although, i will always love wipeout and wipeout xl.

Samphis

If I could change anything about the Wii, it wouldn't be the graphics, it would likely be the flash memory. I'd add about 2 GB standard. Yes, you can upgrade it, but having more memory standard would allow for some cool new downloadable games. If there's anything that will keep me from buying more Wii games it's that I'll have to actually order them online or go to the store now. I live about 30 minutes from the nearest game stores and this keeps me from buying as much as I'd like.

Live Arcade and VC are like my "kid in candy-store" situation, but a limit of 256 MB available to the user pretty much means that we won't be seeing very much new content or add-ons. Someone mentioned new dungeons for Zelda on the Wii Shop, but it's not likely.

Yes, it would have increased the cost, but not much.