Okay, I used the character builder and everything is fine, except one little thing.
My Defenses are confusing me in one small spot.
Under Ability for AC is 4, Fort is 1, Ref is 4, Will is 2. I thought I should, for example. Have 13 Will defense. 10 base, +2 for wizard + 1 for Eldarin. I don't know where this +2 from ability is from. Someone help.
Ability is the column that says how many points in your defense come from the ability scores associated with it. Is it not being counted into the total?
It was counted into the total when I used the Character creation Program, but I don't know why. or Where it's coming from. Why Am I getting this extra +4, 1, 4, 2
Each pair of the six stats (Str/Con; Dex/Int; Wis/Cha) feeds into one of the four defences; respectively Fortitude, Reflex (also sometimes AC*), and Will.
To figure out what bonus you should have, take the highest score in each pair (a Wizard will usually have a much higher Int than Ref for example), subtract ten and divide by two. This is your "ability bonus" and is added to the appropriate defence.
*If you are wearing Light armour (Cloth (clothes), Leather, or Hide) your Dex/Int bonus is added to your AC as well.
Because that would be horrible to use with movement powers.
It would make movement powers a bit more difficult but it would work out just fine. If you think its going to be some perfect approximation of DnD, it certainly would not be. However, i was referring to the mechanics of play and flow of the game.
DDO has a great little adventure system going for it, its fun, pretty self explanatory, and has a very "dungeon" aesthetic. The main problem with the system is that the problems in the system are too wild to fix efficiently. Its too easy, before you even get into the changes made by the DDO team, to break the system, and the changes that can be made and have been made are simply not radical enough to fix the problems.
4e does not have these problems to the extent that 3.5 does, and 4e has a unified system that works much better in this type of environment. For instance, each player has at-will, encounter, and daily powers. Daily powers can recharge when you hit a rest shrine, encounter powers recharge after 1 minute of not using any powers and at-will powers never go away.
So long as power activation times are significant enough[on both sides] to allow effective targeting, re-targeting, and attack queuing, then the flow and action economy can be sustained to make an interesting, fun, and all-together balanced dungeon delving MMO experience. Yes, there will be some issues, but they can be worked around.
Maybe its just because i like DOO, and i like 4e, but i think it would make a fantastic game.
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Aside: An MMO would not work in a turn based system, but a single player 4e game in the style of "Temple of Elemental Evil" is something that i would love to see. So long as they don't succumb to monster amount creep like ToEE does.
I don't really see how 4E's rules would work well in an MMO. It's too heavily based on turns and grid-based movement.
Its pretty easily actually. You transpose all grid base sizes into feet OR you have players move on a grid.
Combat is broken down into "rounds" which tick away in real time. Minor actions take 1 second to complete, move actions 3 seconds to complete and standard actions 5 seconds to complete[so you move your movement in squares in the time it takes to end a power]. Each time you use an action within a "round" each other action of that type moves up to the next step. Such, if you wanted to take 2 minors and a move action, that would take your full round. The first minor would take 1 second, the second 3, and the move would take 5.
If you get hit with a daze, all of your actions take 9 seconds and you can't make any immediate interrupts/reactions starting with the next round
If you get hit with a stun, it ticks down in 9 second increments.
Ideally i would think that those numbers are a bit to low to properly have the pace i would look for[too difficult to make decisions in real time. But it should get the idea accross.
Pushes/Pulls/Immediate Interrupt/Reaction powers would all be in a set priority OR with a non-intrusive UI that lets you execute them[where they take 0 time].
Init would be a "tie breaker" for instant abilities, such that say 2 abilities went off at the same time, the higher init would "count" first.
The main thing that you would lose in a real time system would be delay and readied actions and initiative phenagling.
well there is a solo adventure available through ddi at the moment
What? How the hell did they make that work?
Okay, after reading it, I'm having a hard time explaining it. It's a neat idea, though.
It's not regular D&D. There's no DM, no other player characters. You're not going to roleplay. You, the player, are essentially solving a puzzle in an adventure format. You can build a character for it, and you have a monster companion (our favorite goblin, Splug).
It's got the core resolution mechanics of D&D and the same character building rules. But instead of a DM, the monsters are "programmed" for you so you know what they will do, and the module links encounters and the particulars of those encounters together like choose your own adventure books. (if you do A, turn to this page and paragraph, if you do B, turn to this page and paragraph, etc)
Monsters with preset tactics is sort of like that dungeon-crawling boardgame version of Warhammer. Was it Warmaster? I can't remember the name of it, it hasn't been around for a long time. It's a bit more interesting than that, however.
It's like a puzzle + board game + adventure book thing.
As a bookwormy kid, I would have loved this sort of thing. I loved choose your own adventure books... heck, one of them even had a dice mechanic and hit points. This is just a somewhat more complex version of that.
These days it's something that I would try out with a friend just for the hell of it. Either just play it together, or maybe have one person mostly play Splug and the other mostly play the PC. It's a bizarre little twist on the game that I think is interesting... which probably means that the guy who wrote it and myself played with similar game/puzzle type things when we were younger.
Shit, I don't even know if they have choose your own adventure books anymore.
If you don't know what those are, they're like a text-based role playing computer game.
If you don't know what that is... get off my lawn you damn kids!
I think I've read two, maybe three, of those.
The first had you in a medieval dreamworld that you had to escape (only to discover in the end that
you yourself are also a dream of some other kid).
The second was an Animorphs special in which you had to choose between different animal forms. The only thing I can remember off-hand is that in one branch you can try to spy on someone as a fly on the wall only to get squished.
I'm wanting to think I might have read a Goosebumps book like this, too, but I'm not certain.
The second was an Animorphs special in which you had to choose between different animal forms. The only thing I can remember off-hand is that in one branch you can try to spy on someone as a fly on the wall only to get squished.
Yeah, some of those had very abrupt endings to them.
I particularly remember this one:
Badlands of Hark was so brutal. There were like a million ways to die, and not many ways to win.
And having very little chance of solo play isn't a new concept for MMO's. FFXI makes soloing with a lot of classes not worth it. Sure there are a few classes that can solo, or have to because they dont fit with leveling parties, but from about 10 to 75 the majority of the player base does it in parties.
Out of all the MMO's in creation, FFXI is about the only one that makes soloing very damned hard. That means it's an outlier and not really good enough to include when discussing MMO soloing in general. DDO used to be pretty hard to solo, but they're constantly making it easier.
SkyCaptain on
The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
And having very little chance of solo play isn't a new concept for MMO's. FFXI makes soloing with a lot of classes not worth it. Sure there are a few classes that can solo, or have to because they dont fit with leveling parties, but from about 10 to 75 the majority of the player base does it in parties.
Out of all the MMO's in creation, FFXI is about the only one that makes soloing very damned hard. That means it's an outlier and not really good enough to include when discussing MMO soloing in general. DDO used to be pretty hard to solo, but they're constantly making it easier.
But FFXI still works, so I don't see why it can't be used as a model for a group based game.
Also, the class system it presents IMO is the best I've seen. Not the subjob part, but the ability to change jobs.
Brody on
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Okay, so whats your guys take on beast master rangers?
From what ive been told they are gimped like the 3e ranger which was a gimped 2e ranger ( not my words ).
So apparently there is something wrong with them. I would like to know what, since my interest in playing one is now diminishing based on hearing this.
Just that you have to use your own actions to let the beast move, and that your attacks use attack bonuses based on the beast and they don't get magic item bonuses and level-up attribute bonuses like PCs do.
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UtsanomikoBros before DoesRollin' in the thlayRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
I'd imagine a DM could adjust their stats every few levels to compensate of the curve, if they felt the need.
Okay, so whats your guys take on beast master rangers?
The pet is useful. Most of the powers that let you attack through the pet are crap, because your beast is probably rolling 1d8+4 damage when you've got a +3 bastard sword of awesome critting+weapon focus and various other damage bonuses the pet doesn't get.
You can always play an archer beastmaster who uses the beast as a meatshield, a two-weapon beastmaster who uses it as a flanking buddy, or just use a big two-handed weapon and be very picky about which beast powers you pick up, and do fine.
In other words, look for the beast powers that let your Ranger do most of the damage while the beast gnaws on their ankle or something, instead of ones where the beast is supposed to be the heavy hitter.
Just that you have to use your own actions to let the beast move, and that your attacks use attack bonuses based on the beast and they don't get magic item bonuses and level-up attribute bonuses like PCs do.
They get stat boosts. They just don't get anything else at all to increase damage. No feat bonuses, no enhancement bonuses, no bonus dice on crits, no magic items, (Except for one collar, I believe) nada.
There are some equipment for beast companions in the first Adventurer's Vault I belive. More than just a collar at least.
...and I'm pretty sure both you and your beast get to move when you use a move action, so there is at least that...
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Yeah, when you move your beast action can also get a move action as well. So it makes them a bit more mobile.
Personally, I find the Beast Ranger is somewhat underpowered compared to an archer or dual blade ranger. Tactically though, they have some nice options but I don't believe I'll ever see anyone ever play one.
It really depends on how you play your ranger - from what I've seen in play, a lot of archer rangers pretty much ignore prime shot and just try and stay out of harms way. In that play style, having a beast both tanking for you and providing distant-advantage CA is a superior choice. But picking most beast powers is a suboptimal choice for the level.
I spent a bunch of time over at a friend's house working on some custom monsters for my holiday-themed encounter I'm running in a couple weeks.
It'll start with them fighting frost archons who wear old hats and have corncob pipes, and will end with them fighting a fire giant and his animate sleigh of doom and sack full of dangerous goodies, such as a "My First Alchemy Set", which does ongoing acid damage, or "Vampire Romance Novel", which does psychic damage and then makes a secondary attack vs Will to daze the target (save ends).
It really depends on how you play your ranger - from what I've seen in play, a lot of archer rangers pretty much ignore prime shot and just try and stay out of harms way. In that play style, having a beast both tanking for you and providing distant-advantage CA is a superior choice. But picking most beast powers is a suboptimal choice for the level.
Yeah, the Beast Ranger we used to have in my game was a bow-user.
He was really just an Archery Ranger without the fighting style, and the party had a lizard watching their backs during fights. He didn't sacrifice any damage, and the beast didn't get in anybody's way, even helping the party out on occasion (setting up flanks, making OA's, that sort of thing).
Really, Beast Mastery Rangers don't lose out on anything at all until paragon tier, where they can't qualify for the best Ranger PP's - Battlefield Archer and Stormwarden.
For what they do, it is hard to find better paragon path options.
Others exist, of course. Pit Fighter and Kensai come to mind immediately. Sharpshooter isn't bad. They aren't "as good," though. And the real problem is that the Beast Mastery paths are pretty terrible.
A notable exception is the Vadalis Griffonmaster, from Eberron. While the powers are all beast-focused, they are good, and the Vadalis-bred griffon is, hands down, the best Beast Companion you can get. It does require a Dragonmark, however, which might not be available everywhere.
There's also that epic feat that lets you command your beast as a minor action, which does a bit to bridge the gap, but because Beast Companions hardly scale at all, even attacking twice a round with them is mediocre, at best. Not to mention that most of the good feats to support Prime Shot are Paragon+ (Called Shot is fantastic).
Honestly, I would say that Beast Mastery is the best Ranger option in Heroic. Beyond that, well, it gets worse.
Draw On Holy Might on
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Yeah, beast rangers in epic are terrible as the beast becomes virtually worthless sadly.
Can any one think of any cool arcane fire feats? I know there are a couple pretty nifty feats for lightning/thunder. Haven't really played around with arcane classes too much.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
So I went and finished that Marilith that Hex-Mage posted the picture of in the previous thread:
I looked heavily at other level 30-34 creatures when making her, particularly in what sort of powers she should have. In the end, I settled on a creature that is fairly resistant to being dazed naturally (due to have six attacks on a standard action and can shift for free on melee basic attacks - combined with reach that is an extremely effective combination) but leaving her vulnerable to stun. When she does have all her actions together though she is a pretty terrifying force, getting six attacks with a single standard action with all her weapons, then potentially constricting grasp and sadistic squeeze.
As a final "BBEG" type villain, she does need some ranged support having paltry attacks at range and being more of a melee combatant. Her mobility in melee is very good with the ability to teleport at-will, which lets her easily get to an advantageous position to use her burst powers like Death Rattle or Relentless Assault. Her general go to power will be Master of Weapons, which lets her either attack most creatures around her or alternatively to really focus on downing a particular target. Artillery and other monsters backing her up, with some minions, brutes or soldiers for some melee combat advantage and to break up the PCs lines. Otherwise PCs can focus fire too much with effects that stun and daze (noting she doesn't rely on any immediate interrupts or similar for attacks) making the battle rather trivial. If you wanted to use her as a genuine solo, I would copy the Heroslayer hydras anti-daze and stun mechanic, reducing her Master of Weapons attacks by 1 for each daze/stun effect imposed on her (cumulatively).
Dancing Scimitars allow her to shift a square and account for 4 of her seven weapons (she has eight arms, but two hands are holding the Abyssal Pike). It also allows her to attack a target with her Abyssal Pike then shift out of its reach while retaining her ability to strike it with impunity. As a general tactic, she should use master of weapons to strike with the Abyssal Pike first against the defender or leader to immobilize the target and then strike them with dancing scimitars to daze the target before shifting away (Fighters can't make OAs against her while dazed so she will avoid combat challenge on shifting back). Due to her excellent reach, this is primarily what she wants to do and the battlefield should be sufficiently open to move her around. At the same time, objects like a throne, pillars and others can ensure PCs have an obscenely difficult time moving the huge sized creature around to where they want. Bear in mind she teleports, so a narrow gap 2 squares long and 2 squares wide allows easy teleportation through, but prevents the PCs from moving her through it (as she is too big).
If sufficiently surrounded, relentless assault is a better option due to its high potential damage, plus it inflicts the daze condition on everything it hits and a further 10 poison damage (save ends). Remember that she has a slow and poison damage effect on her aura, so enemies will find it difficult to approach her and then keep up with her if they end up being dazed - despite being movement six. This can give other monsters precious time to maneuver, recover from effects that daze/stun until the end of the PCs next turn and similar. Death Rattle has a similar logic in reverse, allowing her to pull enemies off her allies or to grab PCs that fight from a distance like controllers/strikers into melee range for a while. Usually that power should be one of the first she uses off an action point, before going in for the kill on a stunned character with Master of Weapons.
Whenever possible she attempts to use her double Blade of Biting on opportunity attacks to inflict further poison and strip if required strip resistance to poison if a PC should have it using Venom Fang (her axe). If possible she attempts to grab "soft" PCs like controllers and hold them in place with Constricting Grasp and further damage them with sadistic squeeze. A target that can't teleport and lacks athletics/acrobatics is going to suffer immensely, as every failed escape means she hits automatically with sadistic squeeze. As she can hold multiple creatures at once this is a solid approach for preventing strikers, melee controllers and even the parties defender to get where they are needed.
Originally I gave her a few things that I later removed:
A power that prevented daze and stun from doing that to her. Her standard action attack used to be decreased by 1 for each stun and daze imposed. I did suggest this above, but I removed it due to her potential for a lot of damage on an individual PC as it meant there was no real way to stop her rampaging all over the place (she can teleport away from immobilize effects). A high number of attacks was a good feature on a standard action attack, so being effectively immune to daze was pointless as the monster doesn't rely on opportunity attacks or immediate actions to get more attacks.
Originally she would do more damage when bloodied, gaining +2d10 poison damage on all attacks. I removed this as it felt unwieldy and pointless. She does enough damage as it is.
Crit dice. All attacks did something like +4d6 or +5d6 damage on a crit. Removed because I didn't see the point to be honest and she does sufficient damage.
One thing I would revert back, now I've thought about it is on bloodied she should get a free use of Relentless Assault. Other than that though I don't feel she needs to do anything on bloodied, given how consistent her damage output will be most of the fight (barring being chained stunned - but that's why you have friends).
I would recommend a final EL for 5 PCs of 35 or so. Using creatures between levels 25-30 for her supporting monsters - a Beholder Eye of Chaos would be particularly amusing for this purpose. If this is the terminal climatic battle of the campaign, maybe EL 36 or so - but not a lot higher given that she makes a considerable number of attacks and while epic PCs can take a lot of damage (and sometimes need to be killed twice) that can happen surprisingly quickly if the DM gets a few lucky rolls (minding, this is why the other monsters should be considerably lower level - both to include more and to make sure they aren't as effective as Shaktari against the PCs).
Kill-a-Tron was made as a murder construct. He did his job well, and even took a lot of pleasure in murdering the crap out of anything in sight. He was specialized in subterranean combat. However, his master was not well liked by a group of adventurers. So his master was slain.
Left without a purpose, or names of people to kill, he wondered through his toddler years alone and sad.
Until one day, sitting on a bench outside a tavern, a scrappy looking Labrador Retriever came up to the bench and laid its head down on Kill-A-Tron's knee.
Emotions, and feelings overcame Kill-a-Tron. This animal gave him purpose. It needed food. It needed shelter. It gave Kill-a-Tron things to do.
And more importantly, it gave the demented construct someone to listen to. He had a new master now. This dog would teach him the ways of life he didnt understand, and guide him in his conquests.
His master had a name. Scraps. And his master had a purpose. Gold, Riches, and Power.
Kill-a-Tron would make his master the most powerful, wealthy, and influencial canine in the lands.
And so... his adventure begins.
Drswords on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
I hope so very much that your tongue was firmly, FIRMLY placed in your cheek while you typed that.
I once had a guy attempt to get a character named 'Armageddon' or something who had nothing but combat-related skills and suchlike approved for a game I was running that was not meant to be combat-oriented at all, and he was serious.
I hope so very much that your tongue was firmly, FIRMLY placed in your cheek while you typed that.
I once had a guy attempt to get a character named 'Armageddon' or something who had nothing but combat-related skills and suchlike approved for a game I was running that was not meant to be combat-oriented at all, and he was serious.
Yea, I don't get why people do that sometimes. It's the worst when you're playing with friends and someone decides that... It's like, dude if you can't run with the idea don't play.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
If it's a game about apples, and you're insisting on being the orange...yes.
but if it's whatever, then maybe it works? I know for me, in one of the games I run it would be a first-look rejection, and in another it would make it much farther.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
DrSwords, Donuts was responding to the guy who described a player who wanted to play an all combat character in a no combat game.
I think your characte is a clever idea--depending on the group, it might fit in nicely, if they are playing a slightly comedic game. It also works if you're the largest personality in the group: It's odd, most of the characters I see chosen here for games have that aspect to them--an overshadowing personality. The grim, lone warrior--the rebellious rogue who doesn't play by the rules--the iconoclastic sorceror who has no problem fireballing his allies--personally I prefer more team players, but to each their own ;-).
It's not that one idea is always good or bad, but all have their place depending on the game & the individuals involved. We had a similar discussion a few pages back about players who ask to play something a little out of setting--some people predictably said "Screw them" and others said "I'd see if it could fit in somehow"--I prefer the second approach, but also understand that some things just won't fit in some campaigns.
Yes. sorry. Sometimes I forget that I can't forcefully beam my entire train of thought into people's heads. Life would be so much simpler... well, maybe not.
Anyway yea I was replying to [strike]Drswords[/strike] Kay. I should have deleted the first sentence in the quote to clear that up. But I did say in my reply that I could see it working, but like streeve said, it really depends on what kind of game you're trying to run the dude in.
edit: you're Drswords.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
The previous discussion got a little silly, with a lot of ego-boosting and chest thumping, but I saw it basically boiling down to this: The conversation initiators described a situation where a player might want to re-flavor something to fit INTO a campaign mythos/world, and the interlopers described a situation where a player desperately wanted to break the campaign world, inserting a character who could not exist, in an attempt to get attention & be "special". It was a pretty silly conversation--the upshot of it being that we have no idea what they think about the actual subject, because they took it for a 180 and were unable to demonstrate that they knew what the rest of us were talking about. Instead someone demonstrated his own personal bias and his anti-social thought process in which everyone is actively stupid & trying to upset him.
Ultimately, Swords, any concept can be cool--some of the best games I've played arose from a player having an off-beat concept & the DM structured some of the story around it, making for a really original game, instead of "yet another" FF clone or boring Delve.
Make that character, and insert it into a recruitment, and see what happens.
streever on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
The Warforged doesnt like or care about anyone or anything, unless the dog does.
So the dog would be taking the lead in his decisions.
The way i would play it is, the dog would absolutely love the other adventurers, and therefore so would Kill-A-Tron.
But from what i can tell, ideas like this are basically shunned in Dnd, So i guess i need to come up with something more conventional.
I guess ill just go back to playing an Eladrin Wizard.
Eh? No, not at all. You just stumbled into the crossfire of an argument about people who just can't take a hint, who are generally shunned. Specifically, the person that brings the combat-oriented PC to the strictly low-combat campaign. Alternatives include the guy that brings the Eladrin Diplomat to a dungeon crawl.
I for one think Kill-o-Tron/Scraps would be an excellent addition to a party of slightly tongue-in-cheek adventurers such as Spug and The Gnome (I'm a barbarian!).
Make that character, and insert it into a recruitment, and see what happens.
Yea well, all i see for recruitments is PBP games.
And thats a problem for me.
A: I dont know how to play by post.
B: as you can tell by my character concepts, im a terrible writer.
I am currently running a game on Vent with Maptool, but i have no other options for actually playing the game ( instead of running it ) at the moment, or in the past year.
So really the character is wishful thinking.
But i thought the idea was sorta funny, and had a nice twisted bent to it. Murderous construct learns love and tolerance through a dog. But at the same time, bases his life decisions and purpose around the wants and desires he percieves the dog to have, whether or not they are his own.
He only assumes really that the dog wants what his master wanted, and the dog serves as a surrogate for that guidance he used to have.
But it being a Labrador Retriever, and a friendly one at that, the construct ends up being a good character by virtue of a lovable dog.
I mean i would kill to actually play this in a game. Its the first time ive come up with a new character concept for myself in years, as i have never had any real reason to come up with a character for myself, since i never .. ever.. almost ever... get to player character anymore.
B: as you can tell by my character concepts, im a terrible writer.
Most people are. Really. Even if they think they're not, or their mother/teacher/counselor tells them they aren't.
Like streever said, if another one comes around and it seems open to that kind of character, go for it. the only difference between pbp and real time is the ping man. it's over 50000000ms.
also you link your rolls and type your posts but still.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
B: as you can tell by my character concepts, im a terrible writer.
Most people are. Really. Even if they think they're not, or their mother/teacher/counselor tells them they aren't.
Like streever said, if another one comes around and it seems open to that kind of character, go for it. the only difference between pbp and real time is the ping man. it's over 500000000000000ms.
also you link your rolls and type your posts but still.
How do i link rolls?
I mean i have no idea how play by post works, at all. I only started playing DnD online this year. I used to play with "friends" at a hobby shop.
Is there some guide out there on how to play by post? I dont even know where to start looking for one.
make your character in Character Builder and upload him to 4e.orokos.com--you can just click the dice next to any power to roll it--then just copy & paste the link into your post
Just check out the Mirrors Of Tizun Thane or Zephyr on these forums & look at the format.
Also, people would be happy to help you in your game.
Try Rysk's holiday Delve--are you free on the 29th? We might play a game then during the day.
Posts
Each pair of the six stats (Str/Con; Dex/Int; Wis/Cha) feeds into one of the four defences; respectively Fortitude, Reflex (also sometimes AC*), and Will.
To figure out what bonus you should have, take the highest score in each pair (a Wizard will usually have a much higher Int than Ref for example), subtract ten and divide by two. This is your "ability bonus" and is added to the appropriate defence.
*If you are wearing Light armour (Cloth (clothes), Leather, or Hide) your Dex/Int bonus is added to your AC as well.
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It would make movement powers a bit more difficult but it would work out just fine. If you think its going to be some perfect approximation of DnD, it certainly would not be. However, i was referring to the mechanics of play and flow of the game.
DDO has a great little adventure system going for it, its fun, pretty self explanatory, and has a very "dungeon" aesthetic. The main problem with the system is that the problems in the system are too wild to fix efficiently. Its too easy, before you even get into the changes made by the DDO team, to break the system, and the changes that can be made and have been made are simply not radical enough to fix the problems.
4e does not have these problems to the extent that 3.5 does, and 4e has a unified system that works much better in this type of environment. For instance, each player has at-will, encounter, and daily powers. Daily powers can recharge when you hit a rest shrine, encounter powers recharge after 1 minute of not using any powers and at-will powers never go away.
So long as power activation times are significant enough[on both sides] to allow effective targeting, re-targeting, and attack queuing, then the flow and action economy can be sustained to make an interesting, fun, and all-together balanced dungeon delving MMO experience. Yes, there will be some issues, but they can be worked around.
Maybe its just because i like DOO, and i like 4e, but i think it would make a fantastic game.
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Aside: An MMO would not work in a turn based system, but a single player 4e game in the style of "Temple of Elemental Evil" is something that i would love to see. So long as they don't succumb to monster amount creep like ToEE does.
Its pretty easily actually. You transpose all grid base sizes into feet OR you have players move on a grid.
Combat is broken down into "rounds" which tick away in real time. Minor actions take 1 second to complete, move actions 3 seconds to complete and standard actions 5 seconds to complete[so you move your movement in squares in the time it takes to end a power]. Each time you use an action within a "round" each other action of that type moves up to the next step. Such, if you wanted to take 2 minors and a move action, that would take your full round. The first minor would take 1 second, the second 3, and the move would take 5.
If you get hit with a daze, all of your actions take 9 seconds and you can't make any immediate interrupts/reactions starting with the next round
If you get hit with a stun, it ticks down in 9 second increments.
Ideally i would think that those numbers are a bit to low to properly have the pace i would look for[too difficult to make decisions in real time. But it should get the idea accross.
Pushes/Pulls/Immediate Interrupt/Reaction powers would all be in a set priority OR with a non-intrusive UI that lets you execute them[where they take 0 time].
Init would be a "tie breaker" for instant abilities, such that say 2 abilities went off at the same time, the higher init would "count" first.
The main thing that you would lose in a real time system would be delay and readied actions and initiative phenagling.
I
Okay, after reading it, I'm having a hard time explaining it. It's a neat idea, though.
It's not regular D&D. There's no DM, no other player characters. You're not going to roleplay. You, the player, are essentially solving a puzzle in an adventure format. You can build a character for it, and you have a monster companion (our favorite goblin, Splug).
It's got the core resolution mechanics of D&D and the same character building rules. But instead of a DM, the monsters are "programmed" for you so you know what they will do, and the module links encounters and the particulars of those encounters together like choose your own adventure books. (if you do A, turn to this page and paragraph, if you do B, turn to this page and paragraph, etc)
Monsters with preset tactics is sort of like that dungeon-crawling boardgame version of Warhammer. Was it Warmaster? I can't remember the name of it, it hasn't been around for a long time. It's a bit more interesting than that, however.
It's like a puzzle + board game + adventure book thing.
As a bookwormy kid, I would have loved this sort of thing. I loved choose your own adventure books... heck, one of them even had a dice mechanic and hit points. This is just a somewhat more complex version of that.
These days it's something that I would try out with a friend just for the hell of it. Either just play it together, or maybe have one person mostly play Splug and the other mostly play the PC. It's a bizarre little twist on the game that I think is interesting... which probably means that the guy who wrote it and myself played with similar game/puzzle type things when we were younger.
If you don't know what those are, they're like a text-based role playing computer game.
If you don't know what that is... get off my lawn you damn kids!
I think I've read two, maybe three, of those.
The first had you in a medieval dreamworld that you had to escape (only to discover in the end that
The second was an Animorphs special in which you had to choose between different animal forms. The only thing I can remember off-hand is that in one branch you can try to spy on someone as a fly on the wall only to get squished.
I'm wanting to think I might have read a Goosebumps book like this, too, but I'm not certain.
Yeah, some of those had very abrupt endings to them.
I particularly remember this one:
Badlands of Hark was so brutal. There were like a million ways to die, and not many ways to win.
edit: HOLY CRAP YOU CAN PLAY IT ONLINE NOW
Out of all the MMO's in creation, FFXI is about the only one that makes soloing very damned hard. That means it's an outlier and not really good enough to include when discussing MMO soloing in general. DDO used to be pretty hard to solo, but they're constantly making it easier.
But FFXI still works, so I don't see why it can't be used as a model for a group based game.
Also, the class system it presents IMO is the best I've seen. Not the subjob part, but the ability to change jobs.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
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From what ive been told they are gimped like the 3e ranger which was a gimped 2e ranger ( not my words ).
So apparently there is something wrong with them. I would like to know what, since my interest in playing one is now diminishing based on hearing this.
The pet is useful. Most of the powers that let you attack through the pet are crap, because your beast is probably rolling 1d8+4 damage when you've got a +3 bastard sword of awesome critting+weapon focus and various other damage bonuses the pet doesn't get.
You can always play an archer beastmaster who uses the beast as a meatshield, a two-weapon beastmaster who uses it as a flanking buddy, or just use a big two-handed weapon and be very picky about which beast powers you pick up, and do fine.
In other words, look for the beast powers that let your Ranger do most of the damage while the beast gnaws on their ankle or something, instead of ones where the beast is supposed to be the heavy hitter.
They get stat boosts. They just don't get anything else at all to increase damage. No feat bonuses, no enhancement bonuses, no bonus dice on crits, no magic items, (Except for one collar, I believe) nada.
...and I'm pretty sure both you and your beast get to move when you use a move action, so there is at least that...
Personally, I find the Beast Ranger is somewhat underpowered compared to an archer or dual blade ranger. Tactically though, they have some nice options but I don't believe I'll ever see anyone ever play one.
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It'll start with them fighting frost archons who wear old hats and have corncob pipes, and will end with them fighting a fire giant and his animate sleigh of doom and sack full of dangerous goodies, such as a "My First Alchemy Set", which does ongoing acid damage, or "Vampire Romance Novel", which does psychic damage and then makes a secondary attack vs Will to daze the target (save ends).
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He was really just an Archery Ranger without the fighting style, and the party had a lizard watching their backs during fights. He didn't sacrifice any damage, and the beast didn't get in anybody's way, even helping the party out on occasion (setting up flanks, making OA's, that sort of thing).
Really, Beast Mastery Rangers don't lose out on anything at all until paragon tier, where they can't qualify for the best Ranger PP's - Battlefield Archer and Stormwarden.
For what they do, it is hard to find better paragon path options.
Others exist, of course. Pit Fighter and Kensai come to mind immediately. Sharpshooter isn't bad. They aren't "as good," though. And the real problem is that the Beast Mastery paths are pretty terrible.
There's also that epic feat that lets you command your beast as a minor action, which does a bit to bridge the gap, but because Beast Companions hardly scale at all, even attacking twice a round with them is mediocre, at best. Not to mention that most of the good feats to support Prime Shot are Paragon+ (Called Shot is fantastic).
Honestly, I would say that Beast Mastery is the best Ranger option in Heroic. Beyond that, well, it gets worse.
I looked heavily at other level 30-34 creatures when making her, particularly in what sort of powers she should have. In the end, I settled on a creature that is fairly resistant to being dazed naturally (due to have six attacks on a standard action and can shift for free on melee basic attacks - combined with reach that is an extremely effective combination) but leaving her vulnerable to stun. When she does have all her actions together though she is a pretty terrifying force, getting six attacks with a single standard action with all her weapons, then potentially constricting grasp and sadistic squeeze.
As a final "BBEG" type villain, she does need some ranged support having paltry attacks at range and being more of a melee combatant. Her mobility in melee is very good with the ability to teleport at-will, which lets her easily get to an advantageous position to use her burst powers like Death Rattle or Relentless Assault. Her general go to power will be Master of Weapons, which lets her either attack most creatures around her or alternatively to really focus on downing a particular target. Artillery and other monsters backing her up, with some minions, brutes or soldiers for some melee combat advantage and to break up the PCs lines. Otherwise PCs can focus fire too much with effects that stun and daze (noting she doesn't rely on any immediate interrupts or similar for attacks) making the battle rather trivial. If you wanted to use her as a genuine solo, I would copy the Heroslayer hydras anti-daze and stun mechanic, reducing her Master of Weapons attacks by 1 for each daze/stun effect imposed on her (cumulatively).
Dancing Scimitars allow her to shift a square and account for 4 of her seven weapons (she has eight arms, but two hands are holding the Abyssal Pike). It also allows her to attack a target with her Abyssal Pike then shift out of its reach while retaining her ability to strike it with impunity. As a general tactic, she should use master of weapons to strike with the Abyssal Pike first against the defender or leader to immobilize the target and then strike them with dancing scimitars to daze the target before shifting away (Fighters can't make OAs against her while dazed so she will avoid combat challenge on shifting back). Due to her excellent reach, this is primarily what she wants to do and the battlefield should be sufficiently open to move her around. At the same time, objects like a throne, pillars and others can ensure PCs have an obscenely difficult time moving the huge sized creature around to where they want. Bear in mind she teleports, so a narrow gap 2 squares long and 2 squares wide allows easy teleportation through, but prevents the PCs from moving her through it (as she is too big).
If sufficiently surrounded, relentless assault is a better option due to its high potential damage, plus it inflicts the daze condition on everything it hits and a further 10 poison damage (save ends). Remember that she has a slow and poison damage effect on her aura, so enemies will find it difficult to approach her and then keep up with her if they end up being dazed - despite being movement six. This can give other monsters precious time to maneuver, recover from effects that daze/stun until the end of the PCs next turn and similar. Death Rattle has a similar logic in reverse, allowing her to pull enemies off her allies or to grab PCs that fight from a distance like controllers/strikers into melee range for a while. Usually that power should be one of the first she uses off an action point, before going in for the kill on a stunned character with Master of Weapons.
Whenever possible she attempts to use her double Blade of Biting on opportunity attacks to inflict further poison and strip if required strip resistance to poison if a PC should have it using Venom Fang (her axe). If possible she attempts to grab "soft" PCs like controllers and hold them in place with Constricting Grasp and further damage them with sadistic squeeze. A target that can't teleport and lacks athletics/acrobatics is going to suffer immensely, as every failed escape means she hits automatically with sadistic squeeze. As she can hold multiple creatures at once this is a solid approach for preventing strikers, melee controllers and even the parties defender to get where they are needed.
Originally I gave her a few things that I later removed:
A power that prevented daze and stun from doing that to her. Her standard action attack used to be decreased by 1 for each stun and daze imposed. I did suggest this above, but I removed it due to her potential for a lot of damage on an individual PC as it meant there was no real way to stop her rampaging all over the place (she can teleport away from immobilize effects). A high number of attacks was a good feature on a standard action attack, so being effectively immune to daze was pointless as the monster doesn't rely on opportunity attacks or immediate actions to get more attacks.
Originally she would do more damage when bloodied, gaining +2d10 poison damage on all attacks. I removed this as it felt unwieldy and pointless. She does enough damage as it is.
Crit dice. All attacks did something like +4d6 or +5d6 damage on a crit. Removed because I didn't see the point to be honest and she does sufficient damage.
One thing I would revert back, now I've thought about it is on bloodied she should get a free use of Relentless Assault. Other than that though I don't feel she needs to do anything on bloodied, given how consistent her damage output will be most of the fight (barring being chained stunned - but that's why you have friends).
I would recommend a final EL for 5 PCs of 35 or so. Using creatures between levels 25-30 for her supporting monsters - a Beholder Eye of Chaos would be particularly amusing for this purpose. If this is the terminal climatic battle of the campaign, maybe EL 36 or so - but not a lot higher given that she makes a considerable number of attacks and while epic PCs can take a lot of damage (and sometimes need to be killed twice) that can happen surprisingly quickly if the DM gets a few lucky rolls (minding, this is why the other monsters should be considerably lower level - both to include more and to make sure they aren't as effective as Shaktari against the PCs).
Name: Kill-a-Tron
Race: Warforged
Class: Beastmaster Ranger
Kill-a-Tron was made as a murder construct. He did his job well, and even took a lot of pleasure in murdering the crap out of anything in sight. He was specialized in subterranean combat. However, his master was not well liked by a group of adventurers. So his master was slain.
Left without a purpose, or names of people to kill, he wondered through his toddler years alone and sad.
Until one day, sitting on a bench outside a tavern, a scrappy looking Labrador Retriever came up to the bench and laid its head down on Kill-A-Tron's knee.
Emotions, and feelings overcame Kill-a-Tron. This animal gave him purpose. It needed food. It needed shelter. It gave Kill-a-Tron things to do.
And more importantly, it gave the demented construct someone to listen to. He had a new master now. This dog would teach him the ways of life he didnt understand, and guide him in his conquests.
His master had a name. Scraps. And his master had a purpose. Gold, Riches, and Power.
Kill-a-Tron would make his master the most powerful, wealthy, and influencial canine in the lands.
And so... his adventure begins.
I once had a guy attempt to get a character named 'Armageddon' or something who had nothing but combat-related skills and suchlike approved for a game I was running that was not meant to be combat-oriented at all, and he was serious.
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Yea, I don't get why people do that sometimes. It's the worst when you're playing with friends and someone decides that... It's like, dude if you can't run with the idea don't play.
: /
If it's a game about apples, and you're insisting on being the orange...yes.
but if it's whatever, then maybe it works? I know for me, in one of the games I run it would be a first-look rejection, and in another it would make it much farther.
I think your characte is a clever idea--depending on the group, it might fit in nicely, if they are playing a slightly comedic game. It also works if you're the largest personality in the group: It's odd, most of the characters I see chosen here for games have that aspect to them--an overshadowing personality. The grim, lone warrior--the rebellious rogue who doesn't play by the rules--the iconoclastic sorceror who has no problem fireballing his allies--personally I prefer more team players, but to each their own ;-).
It's not that one idea is always good or bad, but all have their place depending on the game & the individuals involved. We had a similar discussion a few pages back about players who ask to play something a little out of setting--some people predictably said "Screw them" and others said "I'd see if it could fit in somehow"--I prefer the second approach, but also understand that some things just won't fit in some campaigns.
Anyway yea I was replying to [strike]Drswords[/strike] Kay. I should have deleted the first sentence in the quote to clear that up. But I did say in my reply that I could see it working, but like streeve said, it really depends on what kind of game you're trying to run the dude in.
edit: you're Drswords.
The Warforged doesnt like or care about anyone or anything, unless the dog does.
So the dog would be taking the lead in his decisions.
The way i would play it is, the dog would absolutely love the other adventurers, and therefore so would Kill-A-Tron.
But from what i can tell, ideas like this are basically shunned in Dnd, So i guess i need to come up with something more conventional.
I guess ill just go back to playing an Eladrin Wizard.
Ultimately, Swords, any concept can be cool--some of the best games I've played arose from a player having an off-beat concept & the DM structured some of the story around it, making for a really original game, instead of "yet another" FF clone or boring Delve.
Make that character, and insert it into a recruitment, and see what happens.
I for one think Kill-o-Tron/Scraps would be an excellent addition to a party of slightly tongue-in-cheek adventurers such as Spug and The Gnome (I'm a barbarian!).
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Yea well, all i see for recruitments is PBP games.
And thats a problem for me.
A: I dont know how to play by post.
B: as you can tell by my character concepts, im a terrible writer.
I am currently running a game on Vent with Maptool, but i have no other options for actually playing the game ( instead of running it ) at the moment, or in the past year.
So really the character is wishful thinking.
But i thought the idea was sorta funny, and had a nice twisted bent to it. Murderous construct learns love and tolerance through a dog. But at the same time, bases his life decisions and purpose around the wants and desires he percieves the dog to have, whether or not they are his own.
He only assumes really that the dog wants what his master wanted, and the dog serves as a surrogate for that guidance he used to have.
But it being a Labrador Retriever, and a friendly one at that, the construct ends up being a good character by virtue of a lovable dog.
I mean i would kill to actually play this in a game. Its the first time ive come up with a new character concept for myself in years, as i have never had any real reason to come up with a character for myself, since i never .. ever.. almost ever... get to player character anymore.
Dude, that sounds fine. For the love of god play something original instead of generic fantasy horseshit.
Most people are. Really. Even if they think they're not, or their mother/teacher/counselor tells them they aren't.
Like streever said, if another one comes around and it seems open to that kind of character, go for it. the only difference between pbp and real time is the ping man. it's over 50000000ms.
also you link your rolls and type your posts but still.
How do i link rolls?
I mean i have no idea how play by post works, at all. I only started playing DnD online this year. I used to play with "friends" at a hobby shop.
Is there some guide out there on how to play by post? I dont even know where to start looking for one.
make your character in Character Builder and upload him to 4e.orokos.com--you can just click the dice next to any power to roll it--then just copy & paste the link into your post
Just check out the Mirrors Of Tizun Thane or Zephyr on these forums & look at the format.
Also, people would be happy to help you in your game.
Try Rysk's holiday Delve--are you free on the 29th? We might play a game then during the day.