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The Fitness Thread
Pheezer
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
This thread is to pose questions and get answers about getting your ass in shape.
Any disagreements in this thread must be argued according to the following standards:
Anecdotal evidence and personal observation are completely unacceptable unless you can prove your credentials as a trained and more importantly, experienced individual in the field.
Any statements of fact must be verifiable and when challenged, citation must be provided. And calling it an opinion and therefore indefensible only makes me ban you for stupidity.
Disagreements must not degenerate to name calling, trolling, or any other non-constructive behavior that irritates me.
If your belief/argument/pet theory are challenged, and you cannot provide evidence to support it, while evidence is provided to call it into question, you will likely be asked to drop it. You may not bring it back up later in the thread, and if you persist, you will anger the gods (me).
Okay. Go.
Any disagreements in this thread must be argued according to the following standards:
Anecdotal evidence and personal observation are completely unacceptable unless you can prove your credentials as a trained and more importantly, experienced individual in the field.
Any statements of fact must be verifiable and when challenged, citation must be provided. And calling it an opinion and therefore indefensible only makes me ban you for stupidity.
Disagreements must not degenerate to name calling, trolling, or any other non-constructive behavior that irritates me.
If your belief/argument/pet theory are challenged, and you cannot provide evidence to support it, while evidence is provided to call it into question, you will likely be asked to drop it. You may not bring it back up later in the thread, and if you persist, you will anger the gods (me).
Okay. Go.
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
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What are good free-weight exercises for the pectorals and shoulder muscles? It's an area that's notoriously difficult for me to increase in size, and it's starting to look lopsided compared to my thigh muscles and my abs (which are starting to protrude farther out that my pecs). I only have two dumbbells, associated weight plates, and a bench without a press bar holder-thingy. Any ideas?
You want to lay on something even and flat, preferrably a bench seat. Lay with the bench perpendicular to your body (make a T shape). You may want to spread your legs out a bit for stability, your abs will be doing most of the stablizing of the lower body. In this article it says to flex your hips some. This will take some of the strain off your legs to keep you even. Gives a good stetch of the chest and some lats, and you'll feel your shoulders doing a little work trying to bring the weight up.
EDIT: I just noticed that you said you had dumbbells with weight plates. I don't think you'd be able to do this with the clamp and the weights. You'd either just have to use a weight, grab it like a steering wheel, or get a "fixed" type dumbbell
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBPullover.html
Oh man, I love punching stuff. I'm also playing lots of tennis. I'd play Ultimate Frisbee but the physical therapist kindly asked me not to. Damn it!
Any quick advice on good Man vs. 75 lb bag gear and training would be appreciated. I will probably upgrade to a heavier bag in a few months...
great chest and ribcage expander
especially after all the lung heaving you do after squats
maybe a bit non-conventional, but a good at home shoulder exercise you could try might be handstand push-ups
they're a little awkward at first and can take some getting used to, but they will definitely work your shoulder area
also depending on how much weight you have for you db's, i'd look into doing some heavy shrugs, always a great staple exercise
"If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
- John McCallum
@ Dynagrip:
I recommend at the least some light gloves to help keep your knuckles from bleeding and shortening your workout. You might be able to find some cheaper gloves at your local sports equip. store, but you get what you pay for. Get a lighter bag (under 95lbs), for now. Build up tolerance and experience, then move up... If you're training for jiu-jitsu or muay thai and decide to kick the bag, I would then recommend keeping the bag weight low.
http://www.ringside.com/
Here's a good article on some bag training, its a good read for everyone:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rossboxing3.htm
I can go at a speed bag for about 10 seconds, then I lose the coordination and have to start again :P
@ Starfuck
Agreed with the DB pull overs and any heavy diaphragm usage exercise. It just feels great!
Monday: Upper (bench, one arm rows, hyper-extensions, front raise, shrugs, bicep curls, preacher, tricep extensions)
Tuesday: Lower (leg press, calf press, straight-leg deadlifts, calf press)
Thursday: Upper
Friday: Lower
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson68.htm
You'll most definitely learn more from taking a class, but if you're just hitting a bag to get a workout, then just read a few articles and practice.
Doing cardio before lifting weights means you can't lift your maximum.
If you have access to free weights, then you need to scrap your entire workout and start over. Otherwise, you're focusing on your arms too much and not enough on your back / core.
What are your goals and what equipment do you have to work with?
I'm not too worried about maxing out. I'm mainly looking to get fit for lacrosse, not to bulk up.
I've access to a number of machines at the gym at my school. I've been using free weights for everything the bench, preachers and press machines.
What should I add to my back portion besides the hyper-extension and the one arm rows? And I feel that my lower body work out is lacking. I'm going to be starting more crunches and ab focused exercises soon, but right now it's just a rough sketch with room for additions.
I don't think piratejon meant maxing out. He was probably saying that your energy levels will be drained by the time you get to the weights.
If you want to put on some muscle, i'd almost eliminate cardio, but since you're training for a sport, cardio will be necessary. Try running/cardio after the workout.
Do you have any pull down lat machines? How about pull-ups? Try different grip positions on the bar.
Try out some lunges, they really hit the entire leg area, including the glutes and buttocks.
Time to go to the next level. Get someone to teach you these three lifts.
#1 Power clean. This is for explosive movement.
#2 Deadlift. Power from the floor. Works the entire lower body.
#3 Squat. King of lifts. You need to be squatting. Period.
If you can, and I recommend this for any person wanting to lift, beg borrow or buy a copy of "Starting Strength".
twisting situps would be a good add too.
The Arnold Press is a great way to work your shoulders. Hold two dumbbells in your hands at chin height, palms facing your face. Raise them both straight up, while rotating your arms so that your palms face away from your face, and your arms are at full extension. Lower them while rotating the weights again until your palms face your face. It was invented by Arnold Schwarzenegger, and works a greater variety of supporting muscles than a normal military press.
For the chest, dumbbell flyes are pretty bitchin', especially done with free weights.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I've heard that cardio at the start of the workout to warm up is good, in that it gets your heart rate high, so that when you're working with weights it's already supplying oxygen to your muscles at full speed.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
BTW, here's my little piece of advice. When you do ab exercises, make sure you do it in routines, not sets.
By routine, I mean pick 3-5 different exercises
-crunch
-inclined crunch
-Bycicles
and do about 25 crunches, then, without stopping, do 25 inclined crunches, and then when you're done, do 25 bycicles.
Once you're done, take a little breather, and do it again.
I have found that this is a lot more effective, since you can work different muscle groups without stopping, and keeps the heart rate high.
Most people do not need to do shrugs to work their traps because traps get enough work from deadlifting (if you're not deadlifting you should be)
pullups are much better for you than the pulldown machine, the pulldown tends to only widen your lats, not thicken them. This is because you move the bar around the fixed object (you) rather than you moving around the fixed object (the bar). Pullups/chinups work your forearms and biceps/triceps (depending on grip) as well. I'd say drop the rows and do pullups/chinups once you can do 10 bodyweight add a dumbell between your feet or a weight vest/belt.
Light cardio like incline walking is good to do before lifting to warm up and get your blood flowing. Do not do a 30 minute 3 mile run before you lift weights, in fact if you're running to lose fat do HIIT instead of a long run. High Intensity Interval Training is basically....go out on a track, run HARD for 30-45 seconds then easy for 30, the hard again etc.
If you just have dumbells try shoulder pressing (military press) and dumbell flyes for your chest.
Ab exercises:
Ab wheel (add a weight vest once you can do enough)
Use the tricep extension and hold the rope to your chest while standing, then curl your body forward using only your abs
here's an image of that
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/267Image16.jpg
you can also do those twisting style
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/267Image19.jpg
A cool ab exercise is woodchoppers. Just use a cable pulldown, add weight and do a woodchopping motion with both arms. It works great. I'm also a big fan of side bends for my muscle girdle.
Found a link with the description of the woodchopper
http://www.bodyresults.com/S2coretraining.asp
"If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
- John McCallum
Holy shit this sounds great. I'll try it today.
pheezer, do you know which muscle groups it trains, aside from those trained by the military press?
This sticky was a great idea.
Thanks, will my right pec even out if I do these exercises normaly?
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBArnoldPress.html
Target
* Deltoid, Anterior
Synergists
* Deltoid, Lateral
* Supraspinatus
* Triceps Brachii
* Trapezius, Middle
* Trapezius, Lower
* Serratus Anterior, Inferior Digitations
Dynamic Stabilizers
* Triceps, Long Head
Stabilizers
* Trapezius, Upper
* Levator Scapulae
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Working on the muscles in the problem areas will likely improve their appearance significantly, despite not doing much for "spot reduction".
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
And for the record, doing leg presses will burn a lot more fat than bicep curls, because your quads are much, much larger muscles with much greater energy demands than your biceps. But you should really do both because unevenly developed muscle groups will only make you look funny.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
You cannot spot reduce fat, but cardio isn't the best way to lost fat, long runs (steady state cardio) tend to burn muscle as well as fat, especially in the legs. Sprinting and Hill Sprinting are the best ways to run to lost weight, diet control is obviously important as well.
When compared to the squat the leg press is much less beneficial, the squat works almost 200 muscles in your body, this includes the abs.
As for your....posterior region ATG squats (front squats would be better) really target the glutes. ATG stands for ass to grass, basically during a front squat you go down all the way to the ground.
front squat: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/FrontSquat.html
Bulgarian Split Squats are also a great way to work your lower body.
Bulgarian Split Squats: http://www.fullfitness.net/routines/bulgarian_split_squat.html
Can anyone post a good sample weekly workout schedule, that perhaps I can use as an example to start mine?
Monday-
3 sets of 5 reps (3x5 of the following)
barbell bench press
dips
pullups
barbell front squat
bicep curl
calf raise
Do a set of the bench press (5 reps) rest 60 seconds, then do the nextset, take a 2 minute break in between different exercises (rest 2 minutes after doing dips but before doing pullups for example). If you can not do a pullup focus on the negative part of the pullup by lowering yourself from the bar, once you get strong enough you can do the eccentric part of the pullup.
Tuesday- OFF, sprint training if you want the fat loss
Wednesday- 3 Sets of 8 reps for the following (3x8) Rest 90 seconds in between the sets
Overhead Squat
Barbell Rows
Hack Squat
Standing Mlitary press (barbell of dumbell)
Lying Tricep Extension (skullcrusher)
Front Dumbell Raises (this is for your deltoids)
Thursday- OFF, Sprint Training again if you want
Friday- 2 Sets 15 Reps (2x15) of the following. Rest 2 minutes in between sets.
Bulgarian Split Squat
Pullups
Good Mornings
Arnold Press
Dumbell Flyes
Dumbell Bicep Curls
Saturday-OFF, more sprint training
Sunday-OFF
As for how much weight to use, that's easy, pick a weight that you struggle with on the last rep in the set, NOT so much weight that you fail on the last lift, just before the point of failure. Each workout contains 4 compound exercises and 2 single joint exercises. If you're out of shape you might want to scale down the workout, for instance cut out the hack squats on wednesday and the pullups on friday. Be your own judge of what's a safe amount of weight to lift. You can also cut out the sprint training one day. The reason why sprint training is in there is it's quicker and more effective for fat loss than a long 45 minute or hour long run. I chose a total body plan because those body part split plans (one day for chest, one for shoulders etc.) are for really experienced lifters because of their "training age" they can work the muscle once a week and still have it grow. This workout is based off the TBT workout plan by Chad Waterbury.
edit: took out the deadlift for the overhead squats, safer for your lower back.
Another important thing is to base your routine on something well-known. Everyone wants to go and form their own perfect routine but the professionals are a hell of a lot better at this than a newbie lifter is. Bill Starr's 5x5 or Waterbury's programs work, so use them.
And then most important: eat a shitload, and don't be afraid of getting huge, because you won't.
There are a few issues I thought I'd ask:
Firstly, I'm embarassed by the fact that I can't do better, but I can deal with that. I feel like I should be doing a lot more; should I really be going around and using other equipment too, or is just going and using the treadmill not weird?
Second: Is how I'm going about this right? Should I be saving some energy for the next day, or for using some other equipment (I was going to try the bike today, but they weren't working, and it took me a few moments to figure it out, gather my towel and things, and shuffle away with my head down)
Third: The only other exercises I've been doing is pushups and different parts of pullups (the lower part by suspending my legs, lifting myself from standing, and hanging from an incline) because I can't do a full pull up yet. If I keep doing this, am I working towards actually being able to lift my own weight, or is this a waste of time? If this isn't going to work, is there a better way to go about it if all I have is myself and a chin-up bar?
Fourth: I was considering joining a group fitness thing. Maybe kickboxing? Is this cool, or am I totally going to be fruiting it up being both out of shape and a dude?
Fifth: Are my ideals wrong, and am I doing everything wrong? I'm really cluless on all of this, and I've read a bunch of the fitness threads, but I'm still not sure where I should be coming from on this.
Thanks.
First of all, cardio is boring and lifting is fun. I have a really hard time getting myself to go to the track, but I always feel crappy when I have to miss a day of lifting. The hope of setting a new bench PR might just make the motivation part a lot easier. It's also important to build muscle because, well, skinny guys aren't necessarily much better off than fat guys. It's possible to be skinny and covered in fat, and it sucks. You'll look better and be stronger if you lift while cutting down. A side-effect of this is that your weight will drop slower because of the added muscle mass, but your body fat will go down.
The boringness isn't an issue, because I have podcasts to distract me while I run hamster wheels. However I suppose you're right about resistance training. Is there a good way to get started? It was easy to figure out how a treadmill works. The other stuff seems hard. I also don't want to have to have anything like a spotter because I'm not going and working out with a friend or anything like that, I started doing this alone. Thanks again for your help.
:shock:
I normally link to a post on the Something Awful forums, but instead I'm going to link this guide that is better-written: http://www.liamrosen.com/fitness.html
Everything in there is good, but pay special attention to the EXERCISE section. I started knowing nothing, read up on a program, learned how to do the exercises, and did it.
You should avoid machine exercises. Don't worry about looking stupid with dumbbells or being intimidated by stronger people. And don't worry about spending lots of time lifting, either. I'm usually done in 30-45 minutes if I don't have to wait for things.
Thanks! I'll get to reading.
Third: The only other exercises I've been doing is pushups and different parts of pullups (the lower part by suspending my legs, lifting myself from standing, and hanging from an incline) because I can't do a full pull up yet. If I keep doing this, am I working towards actually being able to lift my own weight, or is this a waste of time? If this isn't going to work, is there a better way to go about it if all I have is myself and a chin-up bar?
Train the lowering (negative) part of the pullup, grip the pullup bar with your feet supported on a box or something then lower yourself slowly. After doing that for a bit you'll be able to do one pullup, once you can do 10 add some extra weight (belt/dumbell between feet/vest).
Not all cardio is the same but I agree treadmills are boring especially compared to lifting weights. If you want to lose fat then do interval training, it works best on a track. Sprint for 30-45 seconds, light jog for 30 then sprint again etc. Repeat for 10-20 minutes or if you can't do 10 do less. Everyone starts out as a beginner, it's more impressive to see someone improve a lot in one year than to see someone who could deadlift 500 their first day not improve at all.