It started with his temple shenanigans, but after last night I like Jack again. I think he's the new Locke
He's moved beyond Locke. He's using reason and faith now. The dynamite moment was great. He rationalized why he should have faith that he wouldn't die.
Jack has kind of been annoying me with how he's been treating Hurley. However I do enjoy watching him break down. It seems like a fairly realistic response to what's been going on, and it's finally getting to him.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
I really hope "whatever happened happened" stays true. I really respected that aspect of the show.
I get a distinct "Schroedinger's Cat" feeling from S6, so I could imagine that we've got a situation where whatever happened both happened and didn't happen.
This is kind of how I've been seeing it as well. I get the feeling that the alternate universe is inherently linked to Desmond however. He was always the "special" one who somehow existed outside of the rules of causality, and when/if the two timelines merge, Desmond will be an integral part of it.
At least, he better be, because Desmond is awesome.
That would explain why Sayid came back to life - Sayid is now immortal.
Also, Jack has become super Locke, which is actually quite interesting.
Can't believe I didn't think of that.
Roger Linus shot Sayid and he didn't die.
Ben Linus strangled Locke and he did die.
This could explain how Charlie survived Ethan's choking, except one of the Goodspeeds was a candidate. It could be his dad or his mom, they would have been killed by Ben.
Also, Charlie was finally killed by either Mikhail Bakunin, who isn't seen on the lists, or himself.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
you're saying only a candidate can kill a cadidate
and also that candidate specifically = someone jacob touched
Umm, Richard said he can't kill himself but someone else can. Assuming Sayid has the same immortality thing that Richard had, getting shot by a Dharma dude != trying to kill yourself. So, he did die, and then Smokey got a hold of him.
Still something brought him back, and I don't think it was smokey.
Maybe not Smokey directly, but something influenced by him or related to what he did to Jacob. Remember the pool at the temple didn't turn cloudy until Jacob died. One could argue that it wasn't the pool that brought him back, but I tend to think the pool being all cloudy and Sayid coming back to life are related in some way, which means they're ultimately tied back to Smokey.
So we're thinking she was re-animated like Sayid when Sawyer pulled her out of the house and was walking around with the group afterward? is that why Miles kept wanting to carry Aaron, because Miles was able to see that she was undead?
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Maybe. It's just speculation, but it at least makes (LOST) sense. It's been a while since I saw that episode, but I do seem to remember Miles treating her kind of strangely after the attack.
Well in that case I wish Miles* would have said something when Sayid woke up making the connection back to Claire.
* the only character who voluntarily shares information
I think Miles with the diamonds last episode said a lot about him. He dug up corpses for money. He's not a very good person. I think he has some sort of idea whats going on, and wants something (money, or maybe something more personal) and is just kind of taking things in.
Miles has a very very deliberate look when he's getting 'info', and when Smokey's noises started before he rushed the temple, Miles kind of spazzed out like he was getting a ton of info. He also was pretty freaked out by Sayid and Claire.
My guess is he's not going to stay a good guy, especially if smokey visits him directly and makes him an offer.
Unless of course someone smokey had killed says "He's lying to you.", in which case Miles will be awesomely bad ass.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
Well in that case I wish Miles* would have said something when Sayid woke up making the connection back to Claire.
* the only character who voluntarily shares information
I think Miles with the diamonds last episode said a lot about him. He dug up corpses for money. He's not a very good person. I think he has some sort of idea whats going on, and wants something (money, or maybe something more personal) and is just kind of taking things in.
Miles has a very very deliberate look when he's getting 'info', and when Smokey's noises started before he rushed the temple, Miles kind of spazzed out like he was getting a ton of info. He also was pretty freaked out by Sayid and Claire.
My guess is he's not going to stay a good guy, especially if smokey visits him directly and makes him an offer.
Unless of course someone smokey had killed says "He's lying to you.", in which case Miles will be awesomely bad ass.
I think he's very much an opportunist. Not necessarily a "bad" guy, just a guy who's in a crazy situation and is going to do whatever is in his best interest at any given time. Although he does seem to have developed a social attachment to at least a few of the people he spent 3 years or so in the past with.
Did Smokey truly plan that far back, and use Ben to push Widmore off the island, setting up his plan to kill Jacob with Ben years before?
that's the general idea. The particulars of how the chain of events gets set in motion is way too messy for anyone to untangle though. Ben becomes Ben because of Sayid, but the time flashes are because of Ben, which in turn is because Locke becomes leader, which in turn is because Smoke Locke tells Richard to tell Locke to die, etc.
I'd say dude deserved those diamonds after going to shithole Island, dealing with shenanigans and not being paid his 1.6 mil or whatever it was.
Also, he was probably able to figure out that Nikki and Paolo essentially killed each other over the diamonds, or that they were douchebags in general.
I get that Miles gets some diamonds out of Nikki and Paulo, but where is our compensation?
thank you. that episode was such bullshit filler much like the rest of that season. one scene with miles does not justify its existence or even prove that they weren't just dicking around back then.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
I get that Miles gets some diamonds out of Nikki and Paulo, but where is our compensation?
thank you. that episode was such bullshit filler much like the rest of that season. one scene with miles does not justify its existence or even prove that they weren't just dicking around back then.
I just think it's funny that miles took their diamonds. I think that was a "here's a fuck you to nicky and paolo" scene. It was like, one or two seconds, if that. I was laughing. If all it made you was angry, I'm of the opinion that you're doing it wrong.
If smokey could have read the mind of anyone who had traveled from the future it might have been another self fulfilling prophecy thing.
There's a bit of a time paradox though. From Smokey and Jacob's perspective, what happened first? all of it relies on the future setting up the past which sets up the future. How was it planned out? Smokey obviously relied on multiple things in the time travel. Like setting up the bomb, Locke convincing Richard, Richard convincing Locke, etc.
I get that Miles gets some diamonds out of Nikki and Paulo, but where is our compensation?
thank you. that episode was such bullshit filler much like the rest of that season. one scene with miles does not justify its existence or even prove that they weren't just dicking around back then.
I just think it's funny that miles took their diamonds. I think that was a "here's a fuck you to nicky and paolo" scene. It was like, one or two seconds, if that. I was laughing. If all it made you was angry, I'm of the opinion that you're doing it wrong.
it didn't make me angry, but i thought you were implying that it wasn't worth having an entire episode dedicated to nikki and paolo back then. The first 2 seasons were awful, and seasons 3 and 4 were awfulness mixed with awesome. For me the show only became awesome in season 5.
-oh wait, you're not even the guy I quoted. So maybe he was saying what I thought he did.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
I get that Miles gets some diamonds out of Nikki and Paulo, but where is our compensation?
thank you. that episode was such bullshit filler much like the rest of that season. one scene with miles does not justify its existence or even prove that they weren't just dicking around back then.
I just think it's funny that miles took their diamonds. I think that was a "here's a fuck you to nicky and paolo" scene. It was like, one or two seconds, if that. I was laughing. If all it made you was angry, I'm of the opinion that you're doing it wrong.
it didn't make me angry, but i thought you were implying that it wasn't worth having an entire episode dedicated to nikki and paolo back then. The first 2 seasons were awful, and seasons 3 and 4 were awfulness mixed with awesome. For me the show only became awesome in season 5.
-oh wait, you're not even the guy I quoted. So maybe he was saying what I thought he did.
Could be that's what he meant, I guess I wasn't reading what you said in context.
I don't agree with your breakdown of season awesomeness at all, though. Of course, I watched most of it on DVD over the course of a few weeks with no commercials. I could see being a tad annoyed due to the cliffhanger factor when watching it one episode per week.
I bought seasons 1 and 2 on iTunes while season 3 was airing, and found it frustrating, stupid and full of filler and other irrelevant bullshit. I still watched them all continuously, but I almost stopped watching until season 3 began to pick up. I thought season 4 was when they finally began to trim the fat, and season 5 was when the show started delivering and completely outdid itself.
imo the Nikki Paolo episode pretty much epitomizes everything that used to be wrong with the show. They wasted a hell of a lot of time.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
I bought seasons 1 and 2 on iTunes while season 3 was airing, and found it frustrating, stupid and full of filler and other irrelevant bullshit. I still watched them all continuously, but I almost stopped watching until season 3 began to pick up. I thought season 4 was when they finally began to trim the fat, and season 5 was when the show started delivering and completely outdid itself.
imo the Nikki Paolo episode pretty much epitomizes everything that used to be wrong with the show. They wasted a hell of a lot of time.
No one liked that episode, or them, because they were artificially added to previous events they weren't a part of originally.
That's the only example of "fat" I can think of, because everything else I observed to be important and entertaining character development. Except the fact that I think Charlie's band fucking blows.
The Hatch plot was way, way overdrawn. They didn't need to take that long.
And what did we get during all that stretching? Hurley and Libby. Ana Lucia.
Shannon's character was a waste of time too.
There was other stuff going on during all of that too. So at best you're complaining about weak portions during certain episodes. I didn't have much a problem with the hatch plot. Didn't really hate any of those characters/interactions either. I think it's fair to say it's weaker than where the show ended up going, when they started picking up the pacing a bit, but I don't think it was bad.
I guess something really out of place has to happen in a show for me to start thinking about the writers at all. Like thinking about the show as a construction, rather than having my head in the show itself. And with the setting they've constructed, it's hard for something to be "out of place" really, especially to the degree where it jars me out of the story. I think that's why I've liked the entirety of the show so much.
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He's moved beyond Locke. He's using reason and faith now. The dynamite moment was great. He rationalized why he should have faith that he wouldn't die.
At least, he better be, because Desmond is awesome.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
That would explain why Sayid came back to life - Sayid is now immortal.
Also, Jack has become super Locke, which is actually quite interesting.
Can't believe I didn't think of that.
Roger Linus shot Sayid and he didn't die.
Ben Linus strangled Locke and he did die.
This could explain how Charlie survived Ethan's choking, except one of the Goodspeeds was a candidate. It could be his dad or his mom, they would have been killed by Ben.
Also, Charlie was finally killed by either Mikhail Bakunin, who isn't seen on the lists, or himself.
and also that candidate specifically = someone jacob touched
right?
See how many books I've read so far in 2010
Still something brought him back, and I don't think it was smokey.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
I've been sick and my brain isn't functioning clearly but you fine folks have come up with a lot I want to discuss when my cold medicine kicks in.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
* the only character who voluntarily shares information
Anyways, what do you guys think Widmore wants? I wonder if he realizes there are no more others to lead.
I was thinking about it while watching Dr. Linus. Ben's alt-universe storyline seemed so close to what happened on the island.
Which made me think - hey, it is what happened! Ben pushed Widmore off the island, and sacrificed Alex to keep it.
Which makes me wonder - is Widmore a candidate? He was the leader of the Others, an important person, and was blackmailed off the island by Ben.
Who, by the by, was convinced to do so by alt-universe Locke. Who's Smokey on the island.
Did Smokey truly plan that far back, and use Ben to push Widmore off the island, setting up his plan to kill Jacob with Ben years before?
I think Miles with the diamonds last episode said a lot about him. He dug up corpses for money. He's not a very good person. I think he has some sort of idea whats going on, and wants something (money, or maybe something more personal) and is just kind of taking things in.
Miles has a very very deliberate look when he's getting 'info', and when Smokey's noises started before he rushed the temple, Miles kind of spazzed out like he was getting a ton of info. He also was pretty freaked out by Sayid and Claire.
My guess is he's not going to stay a good guy, especially if smokey visits him directly and makes him an offer.
Unless of course someone smokey had killed says "He's lying to you.", in which case Miles will be awesomely bad ass.
I think he's very much an opportunist. Not necessarily a "bad" guy, just a guy who's in a crazy situation and is going to do whatever is in his best interest at any given time. Although he does seem to have developed a social attachment to at least a few of the people he spent 3 years or so in the past with.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
that's the general idea. The particulars of how the chain of events gets set in motion is way too messy for anyone to untangle though. Ben becomes Ben because of Sayid, but the time flashes are because of Ben, which in turn is because Locke becomes leader, which in turn is because Smoke Locke tells Richard to tell Locke to die, etc.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Also, he was probably able to figure out that Nikki and Paolo essentially killed each other over the diamonds, or that they were douchebags in general.
thank you. that episode was such bullshit filler much like the rest of that season. one scene with miles does not justify its existence or even prove that they weren't just dicking around back then.
I just think it's funny that miles took their diamonds. I think that was a "here's a fuck you to nicky and paolo" scene. It was like, one or two seconds, if that. I was laughing. If all it made you was angry, I'm of the opinion that you're doing it wrong.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
There's a bit of a time paradox though. From Smokey and Jacob's perspective, what happened first? all of it relies on the future setting up the past which sets up the future. How was it planned out? Smokey obviously relied on multiple things in the time travel. Like setting up the bomb, Locke convincing Richard, Richard convincing Locke, etc.
it didn't make me angry, but i thought you were implying that it wasn't worth having an entire episode dedicated to nikki and paolo back then. The first 2 seasons were awful, and seasons 3 and 4 were awfulness mixed with awesome. For me the show only became awesome in season 5.
-oh wait, you're not even the guy I quoted. So maybe he was saying what I thought he did.
Could be that's what he meant, I guess I wasn't reading what you said in context.
I don't agree with your breakdown of season awesomeness at all, though. Of course, I watched most of it on DVD over the course of a few weeks with no commercials. I could see being a tad annoyed due to the cliffhanger factor when watching it one episode per week.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
imo the Nikki Paolo episode pretty much epitomizes everything that used to be wrong with the show. They wasted a hell of a lot of time.
No one liked that episode, or them, because they were artificially added to previous events they weren't a part of originally.
That's the only example of "fat" I can think of, because everything else I observed to be important and entertaining character development. Except the fact that I think Charlie's band fucking blows.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
And what did we get during all that stretching? Hurley and Libby. Ana Lucia.
Shannon's character was a waste of time too.
There was other stuff going on during all of that too. So at best you're complaining about weak portions during certain episodes. I didn't have much a problem with the hatch plot. Didn't really hate any of those characters/interactions either. I think it's fair to say it's weaker than where the show ended up going, when they started picking up the pacing a bit, but I don't think it was bad.
I guess something really out of place has to happen in a show for me to start thinking about the writers at all. Like thinking about the show as a construction, rather than having my head in the show itself. And with the setting they've constructed, it's hard for something to be "out of place" really, especially to the degree where it jars me out of the story. I think that's why I've liked the entirety of the show so much.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov