I didn't care for the final Raylan Boyd conversation. Raylan was there to lie to Boyd, sell him on the story that Ava was dead. Otherwise, he wouldn't have bothered coming.
Also, that scene with Boon and Raylan; throughout it, I kept thinking, "Are they really gonna do it? Are they going to play it straight." I thought that Whatshername, the girl, would shoot him from behind. That would have been neat, but in retrospect, I think I like this version better. For once, there was no subversion of expectations or a neat twist or anything clever. It was... classic, I guess is the word. Straight out of the Westerns. It felt appropriate for the finale.
I suppose that why the final scene bothered me. It didn't feel genuine. Raylan, staring soulfully into Boyd's eyes like he's in a harlequin novel, was bullshitting him. Didn't really buy it on Boyd's part either, to be honest.
But that's the basis of their entire adult relationship. Lies that never really convince the other because they knew each other back when and they can never escape that.
To me, Raylan going back because of who he is because of where he came from to the guy he wants nothing to do with but can't ignore because of the obligations of his past....that's the whole show.
Yost points it out, but Raylan is lying but genuine there. He has to tell the lie about Ava for Ava and also for Boyd, if he thinks she's dead he can finally move on from Harlan and be that prison preacher and be happy. And in a way I think Raylan also believes the lie that Ava is dead, the ava they knew is dead she died in Harlan when she pulled the trigger on Boyd.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
One thing I did appreciate was the officer taking Raylan in, basically being a mirror of Raylan in many ways, and not backing down from Art. I felt that was a nice touch.
Yost points it out, but Raylan is lying but genuine there. He has to tell the lie about Ava for Ava and also for Boyd, if he thinks she's dead he can finally move on from Harlan and be that prison preacher and be happy. And in a way I think Raylan also believes the lie that Ava is dead, the ava they knew is dead she died in Harlan when she pulled the trigger on Boyd.
Yeah, he has to sell the lie for Boyd's own good. Both so he can move on, and so he can keep from ruining his own kids life.
And it really does make me sad how many people I ask "you heard of Justified?" only to get blank stares back. Personally I like it better than Breaking Bad, though arguably it falls a bit short. But it's still easily one of the best shows of the last decade, got a decent length run, and nobody gives a shit. *shrug*
One thing I did appreciate was the officer taking Raylan in, basically being a mirror of Raylan in many ways, and not backing down from Art. I felt that was a nice touch.
Yeah you can even see it in Raylan's face. I believe he even uses the same line on Raylan about riding in the trunk that Raylan used on Dewey.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I wonder if he has that realization, he's here you're like "man this guys an asshole" then "man this guys just like me" the you're like "....."
But yeah he wasn't having any of Raylans bullshit. And what's great is that they didn't take either of the two easy ways out...the trooper didn't come around and help raylan, nor did his failure to lead to any calamity. He just did his job, then Art showed up, then they went and finished things up.
Yost points it out, but Raylan is lying but genuine there. He has to tell the lie about Ava for Ava and also for Boyd, if he thinks she's dead he can finally move on from Harlan and be that prison preacher and be happy. And in a way I think Raylan also believes the lie that Ava is dead, the ava they knew is dead she died in Harlan when she pulled the trigger on Boyd.
Yeah, he has to sell the lie for Boyd's own good. Both so he can move on, and so he can keep from ruining his own kids life.
And it really does make me sad how many people I ask "you heard of Justified?" only to get blank stares back. Personally I like it better than Breaking Bad, though arguably it falls a bit short. But it's still easily one of the best shows of the last decade, got a decent length run, and nobody gives a shit. *shrug*
One of the post mortems I saw that explained why Justified didn't catch on is that much like a Leonard story in general, it was a fairly straight forward show. Raylan is a marshal, Boyd is a criminal, and all the shit they get into from there, but ultimately its a show about Good guys versus Bad guys. Raylan for all his faults isn't an anti hero, he's a straight forward hero, Boyd was a bad guy even when he did good it was mostly to further being a bad guy.
Its kind of bullshit honestly, because the show didn't indulge in really dark horrible things like SoA you didn't get gawkers wanting to see how horrible it got. Instead it had a loyal following and critical acclaim, but not enough of an audience to hit a huge cultural touchstone, but I'll be shocked if it didn't influence some writers/hollywood people. Much like Elmore Leonard himself, someone appreciated by people who like a good story but outside the main stream.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Justified is also much lower on melodrama than either SOA or BB. It's not exactly realistic but it is far closer to it than either of those other shows.
I don't like saying Justified was worse than any other show because it did exactly what it set out to do as well as it could have. It knew what it was and was brilliant at it, aside from S5 I guess. It's just a totally different animal than Breaking Bad or The Americans. It had by far the best dialogue of any show I've ever seen since Deadwood, among other things.
The finale exemplifies what Justified is. There wasn't some big musical showdown, or some montage of horrible things happening. Boyd gets arrested. Markham and his crew gets dead and everyone else moves on with their lives.
I'll be shocked if there is a fan of the show that didn't like the finale. If anything not having a twist was exactly what Justified should end on, it was never a show that trucked in shocking twists (even the drew thompson stuff was kind of telegraphed and fit). The characters changed ever so slightly, but never completely.
Boyd was always preaching, Raylan was always a lawman, and Ava just wanted to live a simple life without getting her head kicked in every night. And that's exactly what everyone was in the end.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Slate makes a good point...the fact that Justified never achieved water cooler status is probably part of why they could do what was a relatively straightforward, satisfying finale. There wasn't a huge buildup across all media and different camps of fans to please like you saw with Breaking Bad or (it seems) Mad Men.
Slate makes a good point...the fact that Justified never achieved water cooler status is probably part of why they could do what was a relatively straightforward, satisfying finale. There wasn't a huge buildup across all media and different camps of fans to please like you saw with Breaking Bad or (it seems) Mad Men.
Like I said earlier I'd be shocked if a fan of the show was upset with the finale. Because its pretty much the perfect ending for the show we've all come to love. Anything else would have been wrong or dishonest.
We dug coal with this show.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
That hat was the hat Elmore Leonard wanted for Raylen ever since the pilot. It's the one from the book. In fact it was Leonards only real gripe he ever had with the show, that he had the wrong hat. The show runners went with the hat that looked better on Olyphant though. But for the finale, it was time.
Makes the finale even better, for me.
While the hat is closer to the one Leonard wanted for Raylan, it's not actually the one. Yost said it one of the interviews that the one Leonard wanted for Raylan was like the ones worn by these guys taking Lee Harvey Oswald in, but Yost said they needed something more "hip" for the show, yet still closer to what Leonard wanted than Raylan's original hat. Still a cool nod to the creator of the character.
RE: the finale, I thought it was fantastic, and my only real complaint if you can call it that is that the comical blood spray effect they used for Raylan getting shot was way too exaggerated for him not to have died, but we all knew there was no way he died, especially not that early in the episode so it's whatever.
Justified occupied a weird space for me, because it was an amazing show, but I never really considered it when thinking of the best shows that are on. I enjoyed it just as much as Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc. but despite it being really high quality with great acting, writing, etc., it just never felt to me like it existed in the same category with those shows. I'm definitely bummed there won't be any more, but at the same time glad they didn't drag the show on longer than they could keep up the quality.
It's pretty crazy to think that when the show started, Boyd was supposed to die in the pilot. I think I remember an interview with Goggins where he discussed how the character was written originally to be much more of a racist moron type, and because he doesn't like southern characters to always be portrayed that way since he himself is a proud southerner he kind of fought with Yost about it while negotiating to take the part. Pretty cool that Goggins himself had such an impact on a character that became a huge part of the entire show out of what was supposed to just be a one off thing. Goggins has really elevated every show I've seen him on.
Well the thing about head wounds is they bleed way more than they look. They are the definition of "Looks worse than it is." I recall once my mom was dragged down by one of our dogs and I found her in the hallway blood soaking through the scalp and I thought she was in real trouble, but it turns it was just a superficial cut right near her hair line and the medics didn't even have to stitch her up.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
One of the several articles I've read today about justified (seriously there are so many articles...) Leonard's historian said he would have gotten a kick out of the new hat.
Also hilariously I want to say in season 3 someone said their father had a hat like Raylan's only it was smaller shorter "business stetson" must have been a joke on the hat.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Well the thing about head wounds is they bleed way more than they look. They are the definition of "Looks worse than it is." I recall once my mom was dragged down by one of our dogs and I found her in the hallway blood soaking through the scalp and I thought she was in real trouble, but it turns it was just a superficial cut right near her hair line and the medics didn't even have to stitch her up.
No doubt, but there's no way what happened to Raylan creates what's in that picture. It's no big deal, and it doesn't diminish the finale or anything, I just thought while watching it, man they really went for the fakeout hard just to make it seem like there was a chance he died.
Honestly, the callbacks to earlier stuff was my favorite part of the shootout. Boon admitting earlier he always goes for headshots to avoid a vest, and even waaaay earlier in the show in season 1 i think Boyd pointing out to Raylan how he wears his hat high and casual like.
I thought it was great that they actually let Boon be the guy who was better than Raylan. The young gunfighter who was probably the speed Raylan was 20 years prior. It just happened that Boon was a bit too cocky wanting to go for the headshot, so despite his faster draw he still lost the gunfight.
I'll think on it. OP needs a rewrite too, now that we're done. I'll wait to change the title for a bit though, that's almost a little too spoilery for my tastes.
Well the thing about head wounds is they bleed way more than they look. They are the definition of "Looks worse than it is." I recall once my mom was dragged down by one of our dogs and I found her in the hallway blood soaking through the scalp and I thought she was in real trouble, but it turns it was just a superficial cut right near her hair line and the medics didn't even have to stitch her up.
No doubt, but there's no way what happened to Raylan creates what's in that picture. It's no big deal, and it doesn't diminish the finale or anything, I just thought while watching it, man they really went for the fakeout hard just to make it seem like there was a chance he died.
Honestly, the callbacks to earlier stuff was my favorite part of the shootout. Boon admitting earlier he always goes for headshots to avoid a vest, and even waaaay earlier in the show in season 1 i think Boyd pointing out to Raylan how he wears his hat high and casual like.
I thought it was great that they actually let Boon be the guy who was better than Raylan. The young gunfighter who was probably the speed Raylan was 20 years prior. It just happened that Boon was a bit too cocky wanting to go for the headshot, so despite his faster draw he still lost the gunfight.
Yeah I'm sure the blood was just to make us all suck in our teeth a bit. And yeah one of the writes up called back that Raylan wears his hat high so that probably through off boons aim.
Another thing is that Raylan always went body, I think one of the only guys he hit higher was in season 1 the gun thug in his hotel room it was a throat shot.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yeah, if I recall Art mentioned way early in the show that Raylan always aimed for the heart rather than center mass because of an instructor he had at Glynco.
That was indeed as about a perfect of a finale as we could have hoped for. That said, I'm already sad thinking about the fact that we won't be getting anymore Justified. It really was a fantastic show start to finish.
That was indeed as about a perfect of a finale as we could have hoped for. That said, I'm already sad thinking about the fact that we won't be getting anymore Justified. It really was a fantastic show start to finish.
Better to go out on their own terms, which again is so leonard.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Well the thing about head wounds is they bleed way more than they look. They are the definition of "Looks worse than it is." I recall once my mom was dragged down by one of our dogs and I found her in the hallway blood soaking through the scalp and I thought she was in real trouble, but it turns it was just a superficial cut right near her hair line and the medics didn't even have to stitch her up.
No doubt, but there's no way what happened to Raylan creates what's in that picture. It's no big deal, and it doesn't diminish the finale or anything, I just thought while watching it, man they really went for the fakeout hard just to make it seem like there was a chance he died.
Honestly, the callbacks to earlier stuff was my favorite part of the shootout. Boon admitting earlier he always goes for headshots to avoid a vest, and even waaaay earlier in the show in season 1 i think Boyd pointing out to Raylan how he wears his hat high and casual like.
I thought it was great that they actually let Boon be the guy who was better than Raylan. The young gunfighter who was probably the speed Raylan was 20 years prior. It just happened that Boon was a bit too cocky wanting to go for the headshot, so despite his faster draw he still lost the gunfight.
Yeah I thought the same thing. They fucked up on the squib, that's a huge blood geyser.
Dug coal together, oddest way of saying Ava is into Anal...
I guess you'd call that "Appalachian brothers?"
You know, like Eskimo brothers but with..."coal."
Edit: we're awful, btw
Its ok someone had to make a joke its in our nature.
Also we now know that Wynne was also involved with Ava and the money at least post Boyd getting shot. Its why he requested an actual used dog grooming van, so he could sneak Ava past any dogs that they would have at a check point.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yep, when he asked the woman for the dog grooming van I was like wtf, why does he need that? Now we know, because all the dog scent in there would throw the dogs off Ava and the money.
I stole that from a comment thread because I hadn't put two and two together on that until someone brought it up. But it at least highlights foresight on Wynne, he knew he might need to sneak someone out, whether that be boyd or ava he planned on helping someone get away.
I am so glad Wynne lived, saved by being a cock roach. One of the better moves the show ever did by listening to T O.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I love that Duffy finally realized he had to get out of town for good and just go surfing in Fiji or whatever. He dodged so many bullets over time, and I think he realized his luck might be out. And presumably he has about 9 million bucks so that is nice for him.
Jere Burns was actually in Fiji over the Christmas break and I asked him to get footage on a GoPro of him surfing in case we wanted to throw that in at the end of the episode. He wasn’t able to do it and I’m glad because I think it would have been a little too neat. But that was always our fantasy.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Oh and kudos to Sam Elliot. He was great as a black hat this season. That bit where he pulled her chair toward him? That was amazing. He was a great final Big Bad of the Season.
Oh man that would have been great, but still hilarious that Burns actually was in fiji.
And yeah Duffy with 9 million good reasons to say fuck harlan forever. You know it seems strange he hated kentucky so much, yet he never ever left.
I mean, he had a lot of really, really lofty plans with Boyd that got railroaded in seasons 3. And 4 and 5.
...
and 6.
Boyd is not a very good criminal.
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But that's the basis of their entire adult relationship. Lies that never really convince the other because they knew each other back when and they can never escape that.
To me, Raylan going back because of who he is because of where he came from to the guy he wants nothing to do with but can't ignore because of the obligations of his past....that's the whole show.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeah, he has to sell the lie for Boyd's own good. Both so he can move on, and so he can keep from ruining his own kids life.
And it really does make me sad how many people I ask "you heard of Justified?" only to get blank stares back. Personally I like it better than Breaking Bad, though arguably it falls a bit short. But it's still easily one of the best shows of the last decade, got a decent length run, and nobody gives a shit. *shrug*
Yeah you can even see it in Raylan's face. I believe he even uses the same line on Raylan about riding in the trunk that Raylan used on Dewey.
pleasepaypreacher.net
But yeah he wasn't having any of Raylans bullshit. And what's great is that they didn't take either of the two easy ways out...the trooper didn't come around and help raylan, nor did his failure to lead to any calamity. He just did his job, then Art showed up, then they went and finished things up.
One of the post mortems I saw that explained why Justified didn't catch on is that much like a Leonard story in general, it was a fairly straight forward show. Raylan is a marshal, Boyd is a criminal, and all the shit they get into from there, but ultimately its a show about Good guys versus Bad guys. Raylan for all his faults isn't an anti hero, he's a straight forward hero, Boyd was a bad guy even when he did good it was mostly to further being a bad guy.
Its kind of bullshit honestly, because the show didn't indulge in really dark horrible things like SoA you didn't get gawkers wanting to see how horrible it got. Instead it had a loyal following and critical acclaim, but not enough of an audience to hit a huge cultural touchstone, but I'll be shocked if it didn't influence some writers/hollywood people. Much like Elmore Leonard himself, someone appreciated by people who like a good story but outside the main stream.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'll be shocked if there is a fan of the show that didn't like the finale. If anything not having a twist was exactly what Justified should end on, it was never a show that trucked in shocking twists (even the drew thompson stuff was kind of telegraphed and fit). The characters changed ever so slightly, but never completely.
Boyd was always preaching, Raylan was always a lawman, and Ava just wanted to live a simple life without getting her head kicked in every night. And that's exactly what everyone was in the end.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Like I said earlier I'd be shocked if a fan of the show was upset with the finale. Because its pretty much the perfect ending for the show we've all come to love. Anything else would have been wrong or dishonest.
We dug coal with this show.
pleasepaypreacher.net
While the hat is closer to the one Leonard wanted for Raylan, it's not actually the one. Yost said it one of the interviews that the one Leonard wanted for Raylan was like the ones worn by these guys taking Lee Harvey Oswald in, but Yost said they needed something more "hip" for the show, yet still closer to what Leonard wanted than Raylan's original hat. Still a cool nod to the creator of the character.
RE: the finale, I thought it was fantastic, and my only real complaint if you can call it that is that the comical blood spray effect they used for Raylan getting shot was way too exaggerated for him not to have died, but we all knew there was no way he died, especially not that early in the episode so it's whatever.
Justified occupied a weird space for me, because it was an amazing show, but I never really considered it when thinking of the best shows that are on. I enjoyed it just as much as Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc. but despite it being really high quality with great acting, writing, etc., it just never felt to me like it existed in the same category with those shows. I'm definitely bummed there won't be any more, but at the same time glad they didn't drag the show on longer than they could keep up the quality.
It's pretty crazy to think that when the show started, Boyd was supposed to die in the pilot. I think I remember an interview with Goggins where he discussed how the character was written originally to be much more of a racist moron type, and because he doesn't like southern characters to always be portrayed that way since he himself is a proud southerner he kind of fought with Yost about it while negotiating to take the part. Pretty cool that Goggins himself had such an impact on a character that became a huge part of the entire show out of what was supposed to just be a one off thing. Goggins has really elevated every show I've seen him on.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This wasn't sarcasm btw. Figured I'd clarify just in case. Text tone and all that.
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Also hilariously I want to say in season 3 someone said their father had a hat like Raylan's only it was smaller shorter "business stetson" must have been a joke on the hat.
pleasepaypreacher.net
No doubt, but there's no way what happened to Raylan creates what's in that picture. It's no big deal, and it doesn't diminish the finale or anything, I just thought while watching it, man they really went for the fakeout hard just to make it seem like there was a chance he died.
Honestly, the callbacks to earlier stuff was my favorite part of the shootout. Boon admitting earlier he always goes for headshots to avoid a vest, and even waaaay earlier in the show in season 1 i think Boyd pointing out to Raylan how he wears his hat high and casual like.
I thought it was great that they actually let Boon be the guy who was better than Raylan. The young gunfighter who was probably the speed Raylan was 20 years prior. It just happened that Boon was a bit too cocky wanting to go for the headshot, so despite his faster draw he still lost the gunfight.
IMO, this is what the thread title should be.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I think I like "We all dug coal together."
I'll think on it. OP needs a rewrite too, now that we're done. I'll wait to change the title for a bit though, that's almost a little too spoilery for my tastes.
Yeah I'm sure the blood was just to make us all suck in our teeth a bit. And yeah one of the writes up called back that Raylan wears his hat high so that probably through off boons aim.
Another thing is that Raylan always went body, I think one of the only guys he hit higher was in season 1 the gun thug in his hotel room it was a throat shot.
pleasepaypreacher.net
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Better to go out on their own terms, which again is so leonard.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeah I thought the same thing. They fucked up on the squib, that's a huge blood geyser.
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
I guess you'd call that "Appalachian brothers?"
You know, like Eskimo brothers but with..."coal."
Edit: we're awful, btw
Its ok someone had to make a joke its in our nature.
Also we now know that Wynne was also involved with Ava and the money at least post Boyd getting shot. Its why he requested an actual used dog grooming van, so he could sneak Ava past any dogs that they would have at a check point.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Wynne you lovable bastard.
I am so glad Wynne lived, saved by being a cock roach. One of the better moves the show ever did by listening to T O.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
And yeah Duffy with 9 million good reasons to say fuck harlan forever. You know it seems strange he hated kentucky so much, yet he never ever left.
pleasepaypreacher.net
If there was an award for Best Dialogue you would have won it every year.
Thanks for the great finale. You will be missed.
"And the Winner is Justified, Justified forever."
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
I mean, he had a lot of really, really lofty plans with Boyd that got railroaded in seasons 3. And 4 and 5.
...
and 6.
Boyd is not a very good criminal.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
pleasepaypreacher.net