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[WoW] What Are All These Buttons, Paladin Thread?

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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    re: Gemming

    Right, by blue I meant swapping away from a Solid gem. Given he's gemming out a piece of crafted ToC level gear I was guessing he was going for epic gems.

    re: Seals

    Last night I finally swapped my tank spec (I'd been running 2/2 imp might since we did not previously have a ret paladin, and ran usually only one warrior), and was able to try out seal of command tanking for trash and adds in ICC. Man was it useful and I can see why the other tanks complain.

    Nobody on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Nealneal wrote: »
    Hello folks. I hit 80 on my Holy Pally last night, and I was wondering if I will get run out of heroics with my gear and spec.

    Ralieth

    I picked up all of the crafted caster/healer stuff that I could afford and I will be picking up the Argent Crusade helm and ring this afternoon after work. I know a lot of what I'm wearing isn't plate, but I figure if I'm getting beat on something has already gone terribly wrong anyway so a couple thousand armor won't make a huge difference.

    Anyway, I'm just looking for some advice/thoughts/criticisms of my setup so far.

    Run ToC5/HToC5 as much as you can, you'll find some ups in there. H-UK has a nice epic ring off the last boss to replace your green. Grab the int trink from triumph badges as soon as you can. Both the triumph libram and heroism badge libram are good, though with as much int as is on gear you can get even from running heroics, I'd lean towards triumph just because mana already shouldn't be much of an issue.

    Your spec needs some work. You have some odd talent choices in there. Like divine strength, and blessed life.
    edit: If you're going prot subspec, there's no good reason to not take Guardian's favor. Especially as opposed to Divine Strength. but for just starting out, sicne your mana pool is so low, and pallies generally don't have issues with their heals not being big enough, ret subspec for all the extra crit is probabyl going to help more.

    Tofystedeth on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, I can't look at your spec at work, but the prot sub spec is for fucking around with once you're ready to raid. You need the mana regen at the beginning.

    Edit: My spec is Cuthburt on Cho'gall, if you want to look.

    Langly on
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    formatformat Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Nobody wrote: »
    Last night I finally swapped my tank spec (I'd been running 2/2 imp might since we did not previously have a ret paladin, and ran usually only one warrior), and was able to try out seal of command tanking for trash and adds in ICC. Man was it useful and I can see why the other tanks complain.

    My prot warrior counterpart in ICC always gets angry that he feels useless on trash.

    On another note, I get a ton of Deflects from Hammer of the Righteous when using Command. I don't want to gem expertise since it hasn't caused any problems but it still annoys me.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
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    NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Run ToC5/HToC5 as much as you can, you'll find some ups in there. H-UK has a nice epic ring off the last boss to replace your green. Grab the int trink from triumph badges as soon as you can. Both the triumph libram and heroism badge libram are good, though with as much int as is on gear you can get even from running heroics, I'd lean towards triumph just because mana already shouldn't be much of an issue.

    Your spec needs some work. You have some odd talent choices in there. Like divine strength, and blessed life.
    edit: If you're going prot subspec, there's no good reason to not take Guardian's favor. Especially as opposed to Divine Strength. but for just starting out, sicne your mana pool is so low, and pallies generally don't have issues with their heals not being big enough, ret subspec for all the extra crit is probabyl going to help more.

    Got it, though I don't actually have talent points in Blessed Life. I really wanted Divine Guardian to improve Sacred Shield, and I already had that many points in Prot, so I figured I might as well get the Imp. Devo Aura to increase healing across the board. As to Divine Strength, I just wasn't sure how useful Guardian's Favor and Stoicism were. Thank you for the advice, I started running ToC/HToC last night. My Mana jumped nearly 2k by adding the new helm and ring from Argent Crusade.

    Nealneal on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I but.. okay, I can't read. For some reason I thought you'd taken that talent. My bad.

    Tofystedeth on
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    CypherKnightCypherKnight Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    NealNeal,

    To answer your question... I think you could do a few of the earlier heroics (Nexus, Utgarde Keep/Pinnacle, Gundrak, Violet Hold) but make sure you carry mana potions and make sure you tell the tank. Once you hit 25 K mana you should be able to tackle most if not all of the heroics.

    Hit Pit of Saron (Normal) a few times to pick up a new shield (Protector of Frigid Souls), it's the best shield you can get without raiding. Your other option is from ICC 25, Marrowgar drops it right at the entrance (Bulwark of Smouldering Steel). I'd also suggest hitting the heroic version as well of Pit of Saron to get among other things the Nevermelting Ice Crystal Trinket.

    ToC5 is also a good place to go if you want to get a new mainhand, you can hope to get the healing mace from Eadric the pure but I haven't seen it drop once for me personally. Although you can't use the +hit on the weapon, Seethe from the Forge of Souls is a good stop gap until you can get a pure healing mace from raiding.

    Get that libram changed STAT. The level 200 Libram is a good choice that I still use (waiting on 4 pieces of T10 to try out the one from frost badges), as a holy pal you're expected to be a good tank healer and the only way to do that at end game is using Holy Light.

    I'm not sure why you're using that Arcanum for your helm, you should be using the Kirin Tor's Arcanum (SP and Crit). Mp5 is secondary at best. Especially since I'm looking at your glyps and if you keep the glyph of Divinity then you can always use LoH is an extra duracell battery. Although if you use the Avenging Wrath + Divine Plea combo you should be able to dump that glyph and take something else. For your shoulders, along the same vein I'd get the one from the Sons of Hodir (Great Inscription of the storm, I believe).


    Also if you're not sure what to gem, let me give you the simple guide to gemming for holy pals. + 20 Int. That's it. That's all.

    Feel free to check out my profile: Loredai

    CypherKnight on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    ToC5 is also a good place to go if you want to get a new mainhand, you can hope to get the healing mace from Eadric the pure but I haven't seen it drop once for me personally. Although you can't use the +hit on the weapon, Seethe from the Forge of Souls is a good stop gap until you can get a pure healing mace from raiding.
    Better than Seethe is Splintered Icecrown Parapet, which drops out of normal Halls of Reflection along with Valonforth's Tarnished Pauldrons, Greathelm of the Silver Hand, and Bone Golem Scapula (two chances for a mainhand in the same instance!)

    Salvation122 on
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    Coconut MonkeyCoconut Monkey Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'd say no, Seethe is another level over the parapet, which gives it more int, spellpower and haste. I doubt the crit you gain from the parapet is worth the downgrade.

    Coconut Monkey on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Remembered Seethe having about 50 less spellpower. It's better, although the non-SP stats are pretty marginal upgrades over Icecrown Parapet.

    Salvation122 on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'm going to be hitting 62 on my Paladin very soon. Any addons anyone can recommend that give me Crusader Aura when I'm mounted and switch me back to Devotion when I dismount?

    korodullin on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    For that matter, if anyone can recommend an addon that screams at me when Beacon fades, I'd love you forever

    Salvation122 on
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So, here's my armory. I need a better tanking trinket than the greatness card. Any recommendations?

    SniperGuy on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    So, here's my armory. I need a better tanking trinket than the greatness card. Any recommendations?

    The triumph armor trinket is very good, and if you want more Stam go for The Black Heart out of ToC5 normal. Also, side note, you need to upgrade your libram. If you really like block value the conquest one is better than the one you have currently, and for avoidance both the triumph and frost ones are better. The triumph ret one is sick for threat purposes too. =)

    Joshmvii on
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    So, here's my armory. I need a better tanking trinket than the greatness card. Any recommendations?

    The triumph armor trinket is very good, and if you want more Stam go for The Black Heart out of ToC5 normal. Also, side note, you need to upgrade your libram. If you really like block value the conquest one is better than the one you have currently, and for avoidance both the triumph and frost ones are better. The triumph ret one is sick for threat purposes too. =)

    The triumph? Like, the Glyph of Indomintability? The one that just has armor on it? Really?

    SniperGuy on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yes, armor is a very good stat for tanking. Me personally on my tanks, I usually go for dual stam trinkets, but that's just because I like having the max health pool, and armor does have the downside of not mitigating non physical boss damage, but yes, armor is a very good stat. The black heart is such a great trinket for that reason too, because it has the stam, but the armor proc it has is also very powerful.

    Joshmvii on
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'll probably go for the black heart, because having a trinket with nothing but armor seems just wrong to me. Even though it may not be. I'm not a druid dammit!

    SniperGuy on
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    ExistentialSoundandFuryExistentialSoundandFury Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Actually, non-druids benefit equally from armor, and most bosses are dealing primarily physical damage.

    ExistentialSoundandFury on
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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    this is a long and informative thread discussing the merits of armor versus health for trinkets.

    Nobody on
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    SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    I'm going to be hitting 62 on my Paladin very soon. Any addons anyone can recommend that give me Crusader Aura when I'm mounted and switch me back to Devotion when I dismount?

    #showtooltip
    /cast [mounted] !Devotion Aura; !Crusader Aura
    /cast [nomounted, flyable] Flying Mount
    /cast [nomounted, noflyable] Ground Mount
    /dismount [mounted]

    This is as close as I can do it from memory.

    Samphis on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I am the absolute biggest idiot ever.

    I just realized, fourteen levels later, that I had Holy Wrath and never noticed. I feel like such a stooge, and this after a whole day of people largely complimenting my tanking.

    (also that macro worked, thanks)

    korodullin on
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    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I'll probably go for the black heart, because having a trinket with nothing but armor seems just wrong to me. Even though it may not be. I'm not a druid dammit!

    You can't forget too that the glyph of indomitability also has an on use effect that gives like 13% dodge for 20 seconds every 2 minutes, so it's not just armor. However, just going for the black heart for max stam is fine too.

    Joshmvii on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. I'm 64, almost 65 on my Prot Paladin and I'm having mana issues. Like, really bad mana issues.

    If I have Seal of Vengeance up, even with Holy Shield always being up and getting fairly steady heals with 1/2 SA, I'm absolutely chewing through my paltry 3k mana in a single fight. I almost always pull more than one group, and usually a minimum of two mobs at a time. I throw down Consecrate, hit Holy Shield, then Hammer of the Righteous. Holy Shield again when it needs to be refreshed, another Consecrate if the first one times out with 3+ mobs still over half. HotR on 2+ mobs. There's also a judgement or two in there, but I tend to be pretty bad at picking good judgement targets (retargeting in general is something I've never been good at, even with really good nameplate addons).

    But if I slap on Seal of Wisdom and do the above? I have more mana than I know what to do with. Should I just keep on trucking with Wisdom in groups until I get Divine Plea at 71 and then go back to a more damaging setup, or is there something I need to alter with the above to make it work? The only thing I can see that's possibly hurting my mana so badly is the insane number of casters in Outland dungeons, and I'm not sure what to do to work around them and their lack of hitting me with various implements aside from using Seal of Wisdom and hoping a_random_Death_Knight_01 isn't a complete idiot.

    korodullin on
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I'll probably go for the black heart, because having a trinket with nothing but armor seems just wrong to me. Even though it may not be. I'm not a druid dammit!

    You can't forget too that the glyph of indomitability also has an on use effect that gives like 13% dodge for 20 seconds every 2 minutes, so it's not just armor. However, just going for the black heart for max stam is fine too.

    Yeah I did some extra reading on it, I probably will aim for the glyph now, to go with my skeleton key. Good mix of armor and stam in my trinket slots then I suppose.

    SniperGuy on
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    BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    For that matter, if anyone can recommend an addon that screams at me when Beacon fades, I'd love you forever

    http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/clcbpt.aspx

    Bigity on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    So I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. I'm 64, almost 65 on my Prot Paladin and I'm having mana issues. Like, really bad mana issues.

    If I have Seal of Vengeance up, even with Holy Shield always being up and getting fairly steady heals with 1/2 SA, I'm absolutely chewing through my paltry 3k mana in a single fight. I almost always pull more than one group, and usually a minimum of two mobs at a time. I throw down Consecrate, hit Holy Shield, then Hammer of the Righteous. Holy Shield again when it needs to be refreshed, another Consecrate if the first one times out with 3+ mobs still over half. HotR on 2+ mobs. There's also a judgement or two in there, but I tend to be pretty bad at picking good judgement targets (retargeting in general is something I've never been good at, even with really good nameplate addons).

    But if I slap on Seal of Wisdom and do the above? I have more mana than I know what to do with. Should I just keep on trucking with Wisdom in groups until I get Divine Plea at 71 and then go back to a more damaging setup, or is there something I need to alter with the above to make it work? The only thing I can see that's possibly hurting my mana so badly is the insane number of casters in Outland dungeons, and I'm not sure what to do to work around them and their lack of hitting me with various implements aside from using Seal of Wisdom and hoping a_random_Death_Knight_01 isn't a complete idiot.

    First thing to check is whether you're using BoSanc on yourself. 2% max mana on every dodge/parry/block should mean plenty of mana on every trash pack. The other thing that keeps Prot Pally mana going is perma divine plea, but you don't have until you actually get divine plea. =) Judging wisdom helps too, and if you do get low switching to seal of wisdom is okay at your level, because the DPS aren't going to be outscaling you so much that it will matter.

    Just be glad you don't have to use mana pots to get through boss fights like we did back in TBC, lol.

    Joshmvii on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I've chugged enough back-to-back mana pots in classic and TBC on my Priest to last a lifetime. Yeah, I'm using Sanctuary. After another run of Mana-Tombs (which is a horrible instance for a Paladin anyway) I found that having a healer that's not a Druid or Shaman helps my mana immensely when I don't have a lot of things that can hit me, like casters. I'll probably keep up BoW in groups until I hit 71 and then switch to Vengeance when I get Divine Plea.

    Also, what's a good tanking weapon I should be replacing my heirloom weapon (Mass of McGowan) with? I know there's that axe for Ragemane's flipper in Zul'drak, but that's at 74. Should I just wait til then or is there anything else I should look for?

    korodullin on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    I've chugged enough back-to-back mana pots in classic and TBC on my Priest to last a lifetime. Yeah, I'm using Sanctuary. After another run of Mana-Tombs (which is a horrible instance for a Paladin anyway) I found that having a healer that's not a Druid or Shaman helps my mana immensely when I don't have a lot of things that can hit me, like casters. I'll probably keep up BoW in groups until I hit 71 and then switch to Vengeance when I get Divine Plea.

    Also, what's a good tanking weapon I should be replacing my heirloom weapon (Mass of McGowan) with? I know there's that axe for Ragemane's flipper in Zul'drak, but that's at 74. Should I just wait til then or is there anything else I should look for?

    The ragemane flipper quest tanking weapons were the first good blue ones I can remember, though when Wrath came out I mostly levelled my Paladin as Ret and didn't start tanking until I got shield slam, just out of being indignant that Blizz didn't make the first rank of pally shield slam much lower level. lol

    Joshmvii on
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    I've chugged enough back-to-back mana pots in classic and TBC on my Priest to last a lifetime. Yeah, I'm using Sanctuary. After another run of Mana-Tombs (which is a horrible instance for a Paladin anyway) I found that having a healer that's not a Druid or Shaman helps my mana immensely when I don't have a lot of things that can hit me, like casters. I'll probably keep up BoW in groups until I hit 71 and then switch to Vengeance when I get Divine Plea.

    Also, what's a good tanking weapon I should be replacing my heirloom weapon (Mass of McGowan) with? I know there's that axe for Ragemane's flipper in Zul'drak, but that's at 74. Should I just wait til then or is there anything else I should look for?

    Mana-wise, it's going to be a bit bad until you get Divine Plea. I'd make sure you have HotR glyphed for the extra mob it can hit. I know at 80, I typically remove Consecrate from my rotation after the first one, it's waaay too mana intensive. And if the pull only has 4 mobs, HotR hits all of them directly anyway.

    Dranyth on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Bigity wrote: »
    For that matter, if anyone can recommend an addon that screams at me when Beacon fades, I'd love you forever

    http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/clcbpt.aspx

    If this works worth a damn

    I love you forever

    Salvation122 on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So, T9 helm or Helm of the Restless Watch? The Crit/Haste on T9 looks more attractive than Crit/MP5 on Restless Watch.

    What kind of stats should I be rocking before I'm looking at running ICC10?

    Salvation122 on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Statswise, I had about 35k mana, which is the main thing, but that was in a lot of ToC25 gear.
    If you're in mostly 232 or therabouts you should be good for ICC10.

    Tofystedeth on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sooooo, I have returned to WoW, as all addicts eventually must do, and I've decided to take back up my Paladin after switching mains to my Warrior for Ulduar/ToC. Is there anything I may not have noticed that has changed for tanking? Everything seems about the same, other than having DSac/DG cancel as a new cooldown to use, but I figured I'd ask here. =)

    Also, what would be the suggestions of the fine folks here for a trinket to go with the black heart pre raiding? I was thinking I could either go for the glyph of indom, or try for another stam trinket. If I could get into a 25 man ToC and get at a Jugg's vitality that would be ideal, but I'm not counting on that. Edit: I suppose I should be saving for the Frost stam trinket first off with my frosts?

    Joshmvii on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'm pretty sure the cloaks are the best emblem/stat conversion available.

    Salvation122 on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Just get the Glyph of Indom and save your frosts for more significant armor upgrades.

    forty on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So now that we're back to the game with our Pally combo, my wife and I have been burning up heroics in the new dungeon finder. I dig the new 5 mans so far. I like that Pit of Saron and Halls of Reflection are tougher since they drop better loot.

    Obviously we have no idea what the game will play like with Cata, but I know my wife is a little nervous about what Beacon is going to end up turning into. I totally understand they don't want Paladins to get 2 for 1 tank healing like they can with it now, but if they really change it to only work with Flash of Light, they better make sure Healing Hands is a very good group healing spell, because the current Beacon is the only thing that lets my wife heal through a lot of the group damage in heroics when the gear level is not insanely high compared to the content.

    Really, if they change Beacon to only work with Flash, it's probably going to become pretty worthless, since Flash isn't even going to be a go to 'raid healing' spell in Cata when they rape the mana efficiency.

    Joshmvii on
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    formatformat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Just get the Glyph of Indom and save your frosts for more significant armor upgrades.


    Yeah, its actually a good trinket believe it or not.

    format on
    You don't know if I am joking or not.
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Being worried about it is a little silly.

    Blizzard is not going to allow paladins to be unable to heal content at their gear level.

    Dhalphir on
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    JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Being worried about it is a little silly.

    Blizzard is not going to allow paladins to be unable to heal content at their gear level.

    It's not so much about making Paladins unable to heal content at their gear level as it is worrying about them making them have a huge disadvantage when healing heroic 5 mans at a low gear level, which was the case for the entirety of TBC. Until they changed Beacon to work on overheals and work the way it does now, it was very difficult for a Holy Paladin to overcome the myriad of mistakes DPS constantly make in heroics which cause them to take more damage than they should. The other healing classes have strong group healing tools to combat this, but the one that Holy Paladins finally have is being potentially nerfed hard for Cata, and I can speculate about it if I want. Wondering how things are going to shake out for a new expansion is part of the fun of the wait.

    I actually think Beacon needs to be changed, because in a raiding environment Holy Paladins have too much of an advantage over the other healers for tank healing, especially fights with saber lash/cleave and things where two tanks need healed. Plus, I'm sure they will make sure healing hands is good enough to cover the AoE healing needs of the holy paladin, but I will still be concerned with how the stuff is going to work until I see it.

    I'm also cautiously optimistic about them wanting to give Prot Paladins two different rotations for single target/AoE, but I'm going to wonder what that means until I found out. =) I'm not really worried about it so much as I'm curious if Blizzard will implement their new ideas in a good way, or in a way that is clearly stupid to the players but not to them, because they have done plenty of those in the past.

    Joshmvii on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't remembering having too much trouble with TBC, or with Karazhan as primary healer.

    I do remember having trouble healing dungeons in classic, though.

    DisruptorX2 on
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