It would also depend a lot on the makeup of the gasses as well as the wind strength and direction that day. It is possible that toxic gasses could be released and the winds could be strong and heading directly for you, but I think that would be one of those "worst case scenario" type of things. Still, breathing apparatuses aren't THAT expensive and if you're genuinely worried I guess you might as well invest in one. Nothing like peace of mind, after all.
Toxic gases wouldn't be "released" in such a way that they would affect people on-shore and inland. Denser-than-air gases could be propelled and consolidated by the methane bulge, but the danger of volatile organic compounds typically lies in chronic exposure, and not acute. You might get knocked over by a wave of what smells like paint thinner, but I don't think that there's any real toxicity threat from a methane outgassing.
Methane is less dense than air, eliminating the fatal danger of something like a carbon dioxide outgassing traveling along the surface and displacing breathable air. All of the real dangers would either come from something like a surge or tsunami (I have no idea how much gas at such a depth over so many miles would constitute a danger from that, sorry), or the weather and climate effects caused by methane's capacity as a greenhouse gas and the perturbance of the air column by the bloom.
Also, don't try to fly a plane through it, or sail a boat over it.
I would think a sudden release of an enormous amount of gas would cause a big displacement of water, but that's no guarantee of a tsunami.
And I know even less about gas than I do liquid, so take that with a grain of dispersant.
I think a more likely cause would be if the seabed collapsed, if that's a possibility.
As for the gas, I doubt it's close enough to shore to affect breathing even with a direct wind. Smell, maybe, if it has any, but not suffocation.
The one case I know of of mass suffocation was an African village near a lake, and past the immediate area it mostly affected people taking naps and lying down. People standing up in the next room didn't even notice.
Scooter on
0
Options
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
Alrighty then. So it's just slow and lingering that's most likely. Not a sudden oh shit. Thanks for the input.
The one case I know of of mass suffocation was an African village near a lake, and past the immediate area it mostly affected people taking naps and lying down. People standing up in the next room didn't even notice.
That was carbon dioxide displacing oxygen within 25 kilometers of the lake and killing 1,800 people while another several thousand suffered injuries consistent with temporary asphyxiation. Methane is less dense than air, unlike the carbon dioxide, so this isn't a risk.
After an inaudible exchange with nearby subordinates, the CEO then gestured toward other reporters and said softly, "Get 'em out. Get 'em out. Get 'em out." He was wearing a wireless mic.
"I'm absolutely gutted," he said. "This is something I never wanted to see happen."
You know, after actually watching the video, it seems like people are making way too much out of this. It really looked like people were crowding around him, and when they started pushing so much that they were practically in the sludge, he told them to get out of there. There were a ton of media people around him, and the only people he was talking to were the ones practically about to push him in the water. In fact, if anything, I'd say he was concerned for their safety because of how much they were crowding close to the oil. I really can't believe how big of a deal people are making this.
After an inaudible exchange with nearby subordinates, the CEO then gestured toward other reporters and said softly, "Get 'em out. Get 'em out. Get 'em out." He was wearing a wireless mic.
"I'm absolutely gutted," he said. "This is something I never wanted to see happen."
You know, after actually watching the video, it seems like people are making way too much out of this. It really looked like people were crowding around him, and when they started pushing so much that they were practically in the sludge, he told them to get out of there. There were a ton of media people around him, and the only people he was talking to were the ones practically about to push him in the water. In fact, if anything, I'd say he was concerned for their safety because of how much they were crowding close to the oil. I really can't believe how big of a deal people are making this.
He was probably concerned for his own safety as well. I mean, it's probably very likely for someone in that crowd to just push him into oily water out of spite, at this point.
BP's internal investigation of the Gulf Coast oil spill points to a series of equipment failures, mistakes and missed warning signs that led to the blowout and fire on the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig, according to lawmakers briefed by the company.
BP's investigation, while incomplete, highlights a series of abnormal indicators -- about pipeline pressure and the flow of drilling fluids in the five hours before the explosion -- that should have been "warning signs" of trouble, according to a memorandum summarizing BP's report.
BP also said it had concerns about the cementing job in the well, saying that one procedure had to be attempted nine times, which might have indicated "contamination of the cement."
In addition, lawmakers said, "the BP investigation has also raised concerns about the maintenance history, modification, inspection, and testing of" the blowout preventer.
The account of BP's investigation was contained in a House Energy and Commerce Committee memorandum.
"In addition, key questions exist about whether proper procedures were followed for critical activities throughout the day," the memorandum said. These mostly had to do with the management of drilling mud, which is used as a counterweight to oil and gas pressure pushing up from below.
Once the blowout began, all the systems in place to prevent disaster broke down in serial fashion, the memorandum said, "including the failure of its emergency disconnect system (EDS), the failure of its automated mode function or deadman switch, the failure of the [blowout preventer's] shearing functions, and the failure of the remote operated vehicle interventions."
eep Water Horizon Oil Spill Multiple Plumes due to Supercritical Oil Fractionation
Re-posted with edits May 24, 2010 (posted to The Oil Drum Roger Faulkner)
I have consulted with several experts, and I have modified this blog post somewhat from previous posts, but the essential ideas are intact. The Deepwater Horizon oil spill is different from all previous blow-outs because of four separate unusual or unique aspects of this particular blowout:
1. The gas: oil ratio (GOR) in this well is reported to be about 3000, which means about 150 pounds of gas per 285 pounds of oil (34% gas by weight, more than 70% by mole ratio methane + ethane). This well is between a typical gas well and a typical oil well. The high amount of gas at the high pressure of the reservoir means that the properties of the reservoir must be understood as a supercritical solution which I here term petrogas. It is possible that there is no fluid phase boundary within the reservoir, but the expert I spoke to (Dr. Robert M. Enick, Bayer Professor of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering, Swanson School of Engineering, University of Pittsburgh) thinks that is unlikely. On the other hand if two phases do coexist within the reservoir, it is very likely that more than 50% of the weight of the petroleum is in the supercritical phase, since at 12,000 psi Methane is a very strong solvent. We bet a beer on this; I still think the petrogas is a single supercritical phase in the reservoir. We both agree that by the time the petrogas rises to the wellhead, it is probably a two-phase flow.
a. According to information given to the team that is tasked to estimate the flow, the pressure in the reservoir is about 12,000 psi, but only 180 Fahrenheit, which surprised both of us (TOD bloggers: is this credible?). If this pressure is correct, and the 8500 psi estimated pressure behind the BOP is correct, then the average density of the petrogas in the drill pipe is 0.62 g/cc, which is reasonable for a supercritical solution of gas + oil.
b. The supercritical nature of at least part of the petrogas persists all the way up the drill pipe to the seabed (13,000 feet). The 13,000 foot rise of the supercritical petrogas is expected to be a nearly adiabatic expansion against gravity. In essence, the work to lift the petrogas 13,000 feet is performed by pressure-volume work done as the petrogas expands and cools coming up the drill pipe.
c. The expansion and cooling of any supercritical solution reduces the solvent power. It is possible that the least soluble components of the crude oil (highest molecular weight and/or most polar components) will precipitate out of solution during the 13,000 foot nearly adiabatic rise of petrogas from the reservoir to the BOP. This implies that the material entering the BOP is likely to be phase separated into a supercritical methane-based solution, and liquid droplets containing the least soluble components. (Dr. Enick was skeptical about whether this oil contains much asphaltene, but he has not yet seen samples. The anomalously low temperature of this reservoir makes it more likely that it does contain some asphaltenes.) I continue to think that most of the oil is still contained in the supercritical methane-based phase (at 8000-9000 psi) when it enters the blow out preventer (BOP). The phase makeup just before the BOP can be determined experimentally by recreating these conditions in a lab. I’ve been talking to various scientists & engineers who have the right kind of equipment to do these experiments. (These experiments are pretty vital; any influence that TOD bloggers can bring to bear on getting these measurements funded will be helpful)
d. Dr. Enick points out that some of the observed tar balls may be from partially burned oil.
2. Most of the pressure drop going from the reservoir to the environment occurs very fast, probably in milliseconds as the supercritical methane-based petrogas, and possibly a viscous liquid phase as well, passes through a severe flow restriction at the BOP which is partially closed. In the Horizon Spill, the pressure of the oil goes from 8000-9000 psi before the orifice to 2650 psi right after the BOP according to Admiral Thad Allen of the Coast Guard on May 15 (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/nat...ander_oi_1.html).
a. The sudden reduction of pressure at the BOP must produce a phase separation just downstream of the orifice, with most of the heavier molecules condensing out to form one or more liquid phases, and most of the methane and a portion of lighter fractions staying in the gas phase. Given that the temperature is apparently much lower that I had estimated earlier, not much oil is likely to remain dissolved in the gas downstream of the BOP. As the pressure goes from well into the supercritical region (~8500 psi versus methane’s critical pressure of 6600 psi) to subcritical conditions, it is possible that several precipitations occur. It seems likely that most of the initially formed liquid phase droplets are quite small and mutually miscible and will form a single liquid phase given enough time.
b. The expansion through the BOP is sort of a Joule-Thompson expansion, but because it results in formation of a liquid phase, it is expected to produce a temperature increase due to the heat of vaporization that is released. It is quite possible that the temperature downstream of the BOP could be higher than the reservoir temperature because of the condensation of this oily phase.
3. The environmental pressure at the ocean bottom is around 2225 psi. Expansion to this pressure rather than to atmospheric pressure has an effect on the resultant phase separation. Although the gas phase formed downstream of the BOP orifice is subcritical, it is still fairly dense and has solvent properties. Right after the BOP, it is likely that a major portion of C6-C12 molecules will remain in the hot gas phase. The pressure right after the BOP is still about 400 psi above the local sea water pressure, and the flow is trapped inside a damaged and twisted riser pipe. There are two escape routes from the damaged riser pipe.
a. A small leak is just above the wellhead where the kinked riser pipe lays over onto the seabed. On April 15, it was estimated that 15% of the effluent from the blowout was exiting this hole (this fraction of the total flow has been increasing since then). The material blowing out of this hole has had very little time to cool. Insofar as there is very little time between the BOP orifice and the first leak into the ocean just above the riser, the phase structure and partitioning of components between the phases at the first leak from the riser pipe is expected to be very similar to the properties immediately downstream of the orifice. If a heavy oil phase separated from the petrogas on the 13,000 foot rise through the drill pipe, they are likely to survive as a third distinct phase at the first leak.
b. The second leak from the collapsed riser pipe is about a mile away from the BOP. The two phases formed at the BOP orifice will cool significantly during passage through the collapsed riser pipe, and they will remain in contact for a goodly while. I think it is very likely that if a heavy oil phase did separate from the supercritical methane-based petrogas while it rose the 13,000 feet to the BOP, they will re-dissolve into the hot liquid phase as the liquid phase moves along the mile long riser pipe.
4. The majority of the total methane entering the ocean will be in the high pressure gas phase, though some will be dissolved in the oil phase too. Unlike spills at low depth, the pressure at the Deep Horizon spill is well above the pressure required to form methane hydrate [46(H2O)•8(CH4)]. The spill itself may heat the water too much for methane hydrate to form near the leaks. As the plume carrying the methane mixes with more cold sea water, it will become cold enough for some methane hydrate crystals to form. Crystallization of the methane hydrate will release more heat. One aspect of the plume is that it contains warmed water; it is not as if petrogas bubbles need only rise within a vertically stationary water column; there is a plume of warm water that also is rising, at least for a while. I expect a lot of the methane to eventually precipitate out as methane hydrate “snow.” This snow will probably rise, and dissolve into the water rather than make it to the surface as bubbles.
Some of it is pretty technical but number 4 seems to address Drake's fears about methane.
(Updates with plan to move tanker in second paragraph.)
By Yee Kai Pin
May 26 (Bloomberg) -- An oil tanker that spilled 2,500 metric tons of crude into the Singapore Strait yesterday is being unloaded as efforts to clean up a slick near the world’s busiest container port resumed.
AET Tanker Holdings Sdn., the owner of the MT Bunga Kelana 3 that collided with the bulk carrier MV Waily, is undertaking an “internal transfer” of Bintulu grade oil, the company said today in an e-mailed statement. The vessel, struck on its port side as it sailed east to west, will be moved after the underwater damage is assessed.
The spill, equivalent to 18,325 barrels, is enough to fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool and is about three days of leakage from BP Plc’s damaged well in the Gulf of Mexico. More than 100 people have been deployed along the coastline in case the spill reaches shore, according to AET, a unit of MISC Bhd., the world’s biggest owner of liquefied natural gas tankers.
The spill hasn’t increased in size or reached shore, Serene Tan, a spokeswoman at the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore, said today. Yesterday’s collision occurred 13 kilometers (8 miles) southeast of Changi East...
After an inaudible exchange with nearby subordinates, the CEO then gestured toward other reporters and said softly, "Get 'em out. Get 'em out. Get 'em out." He was wearing a wireless mic.
"I'm absolutely gutted," he said. "This is something I never wanted to see happen."
Before you get too zealous about BIG OIL IS EVIL, you might want to know that people working the cleanup are getting ill. It's actually dangerous to be around that shit. :?
After an inaudible exchange with nearby subordinates, the CEO then gestured toward other reporters and said softly, "Get 'em out. Get 'em out. Get 'em out." He was wearing a wireless mic.
After an inaudible exchange with nearby subordinates, the CEO then gestured toward other reporters and said softly, "Get 'em out. Get 'em out. Get 'em out." He was wearing a wireless mic.
After an inaudible exchange with nearby subordinates, the CEO then gestured toward other reporters and said softly, "Get 'em out. Get 'em out. Get 'em out." He was wearing a wireless mic.
"I'm absolutely gutted," he said. "This is something I never wanted to see happen."
Before you get too zealous about BIG OIL IS EVIL, you might want to know that people working the cleanup are getting ill. It's actually dangerous to be around that shit. :?
Of course their dispersants are by all accounts a contributing factor.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
This is funny. I'm watching the stream on CNN, it shows up as just all these white lights... turns out it's someone's desktop! And then they pulled a video over that looked to be about 5 minutes long, and expanded it over the screen. Of course, no timestamps... we'll see if it loops here in three or four minutes. :P
That Alaska article isn't really bad at all. In fact, reading a more fleshed out article, it actually seems like they were actually prepared for it to happen and there were no negative results for the environment.
The pipeline, under too much pressure, released oil into a relief tank. When the release failed to close that tank overflowed into a containment area that didn't come close to filling up by the time they shut off the valve entirely.
Essentially there was a spill and they were entirely prepared for it unlike certain other companies.
This is funny. I'm watching the stream on CNN, it shows up as just all these white lights... turns out it's someone's desktop! And then they pulled a video over that looked to be about 5 minutes long, and expanded it over the screen. Of course, no timestamps... we'll see if it loops here in three or four minutes. :P
I remember I once shot some footage for a local news station, and they sent a guy over to get the footage.
My camera records in AVCHD, which they didn't support. So they were planning to have the guy film it directly off the computer screen.
"Umm... you know, I can just export this to DV if you like."
That Alaska article isn't really bad at all. In fact, reading a more fleshed out article, it actually seems like they were actually prepared for it to happen and there were no negative results for the environment.
The pipeline, under too much pressure, released oil into a relief tank. When the release failed to close that tank overflowed into a containment area that didn't come close to filling up by the time they shut off the valve entirely.
Essentially there was a spill and they were entirely prepared for it unlike certain other companies.
Which is kind of funny, considering that the Prudhoe bay operation is largely run by BP, and they've had problems with bits of the system that feeds into the pipeline itself.
Arrath on
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
That Alaska article isn't really bad at all. In fact, reading a more fleshed out article, it actually seems like they were actually prepared for it to happen and there were no negative results for the environment.
The pipeline, under too much pressure, released oil into a relief tank. When the release failed to close that tank overflowed into a containment area that didn't come close to filling up by the time they shut off the valve entirely.
Essentially there was a spill and they were entirely prepared for it unlike certain other companies.
Everything I read really stressed that BP owns 47% of the pipeline.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
So you are saying the oil spill in the gulf is a Balrog? o_O
I have a feeling that the Balrog would take one look at the oil spill in the gulf and say "fuck that shit" and crawl back into his eternal domain of fire
You know, I am going to be so annoyed if 2012 really turns out to be the end of the world.
all standin around on the oil-reddened seas
volcanoes firing off in the background, spewing toxic gases and blazing stones in the air 'midst the sound of thunder
as soot-faced women weep and clutch their lifeless children to their bosoms, you cross your arms and frown
"this is some fucking bullshit"
Just imagine the twittersphere and Facebook and all the other social media sites as the disaster spreads around the world until it's one last person who tweets, "is ther nebody out there"
SkyCaptain on
The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
You know, I am going to be so annoyed if 2012 really turns out to be the end of the world.
all standin around on the oil-reddened seas
volcanoes firing off in the background, spewing toxic gases and blazing stones in the air 'midst the sound of thunder
as soot-faced women weep and clutch their lifeless children to their bosoms, you cross your arms and frown
"this is some fucking bullshit"
Just imagine the twittersphere and Facebook and all the other social media sites as the disaster spreads around the world until it's one last person who tweets, "is ther nebody out there"
You know, I am going to be so annoyed if 2012 really turns out to be the end of the world.
all standin around on the oil-reddened seas
volcanoes firing off in the background, spewing toxic gases and blazing stones in the air 'midst the sound of thunder
as soot-faced women weep and clutch their lifeless children to their bosoms, you cross your arms and frown
"this is some fucking bullshit"
Just imagine the twittersphere and Facebook and all the other social media sites as the disaster spreads around the world until it's one last person who tweets, "is ther nebody out there"
... Wow that's depressing.
It means the evangelicals win. That is in fact some fucking bullshit.
Cantido on
3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
0
Options
The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
You know, I am going to be so annoyed if 2012 really turns out to be the end of the world.
all standin around on the oil-reddened seas
volcanoes firing off in the background, spewing toxic gases and blazing stones in the air 'midst the sound of thunder
as soot-faced women weep and clutch their lifeless children to their bosoms, you cross your arms and frown
"this is some fucking bullshit"
Just imagine the twittersphere and Facebook and all the other social media sites as the disaster spreads around the world until it's one last person who tweets, "is ther nebody out there"
Today is Top Kill day, if all goes according to schedule. Let's cross our fingers for BP on this. I'd really rather see this work out. My "watch the world burn" entertainment quota has been filled for a while.
You are all over-reacting. The Alaska and Singapore spills made the news only because the public's attention is on another oil spill right now, and they are playing off of that to incite more sensation and panic. If it wasn't for the BP spill, those two minor spills wouldn't even have made the news.
You are all over-reacting. The Alaska and Singapore spills made the news only because the public's attention is on another oil spill right now, and they are playing off of that to incite more sensation and panic. If it wasn't for the BP spill, those two minor spills wouldn't even have made the news.
Posts
Methane is less dense than air, eliminating the fatal danger of something like a carbon dioxide outgassing traveling along the surface and displacing breathable air. All of the real dangers would either come from something like a surge or tsunami (I have no idea how much gas at such a depth over so many miles would constitute a danger from that, sorry), or the weather and climate effects caused by methane's capacity as a greenhouse gas and the perturbance of the air column by the bloom.
Also, don't try to fly a plane through it, or sail a boat over it.
I think a more likely cause would be if the seabed collapsed, if that's a possibility.
As for the gas, I doubt it's close enough to shore to affect breathing even with a direct wind. Smell, maybe, if it has any, but not suffocation.
The one case I know of of mass suffocation was an African village near a lake, and past the immediate area it mostly affected people taking naps and lying down. People standing up in the next room didn't even notice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
You know, after actually watching the video, it seems like people are making way too much out of this. It really looked like people were crowding around him, and when they started pushing so much that they were practically in the sludge, he told them to get out of there. There were a ton of media people around him, and the only people he was talking to were the ones practically about to push him in the water. In fact, if anything, I'd say he was concerned for their safety because of how much they were crowding close to the oil. I really can't believe how big of a deal people are making this.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
He was probably concerned for his own safety as well. I mean, it's probably very likely for someone in that crowd to just push him into oily water out of spite, at this point.
Some of it is pretty technical but number 4 seems to address Drake's fears about methane.
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/homepage/STAGING/local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html
alaska felt left out
Everybody gets an oil spill!
At least pipelines can be shut off pretty easily
well at least that's the worst of- OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE
Everybody get out of the fucking pool.
All that school! And for nothing!
all standin around on the oil-reddened seas
volcanoes firing off in the background, spewing toxic gases and blazing stones in the air 'midst the sound of thunder
as soot-faced women weep and clutch their lifeless children to their bosoms, you cross your arms and frown
"this is some fucking bullshit"
No no it's cool, I just peed in it, it's not oil.
Before you get too zealous about BIG OIL IS EVIL, you might want to know that people working the cleanup are getting ill. It's actually dangerous to be around that shit. :?
mostly because BP isn't providing them with any kind of protective gear
aside from the workers who are actually visible to cameras
So at least we have that to look forward to.
Well, okay you've got me on that one.
Of course their dispersants are by all accounts a contributing factor.
The pipeline, under too much pressure, released oil into a relief tank. When the release failed to close that tank overflowed into a containment area that didn't come close to filling up by the time they shut off the valve entirely.
Essentially there was a spill and they were entirely prepared for it unlike certain other companies.
I remember I once shot some footage for a local news station, and they sent a guy over to get the footage.
My camera records in AVCHD, which they didn't support. So they were planning to have the guy film it directly off the computer screen.
"Umm... you know, I can just export this to DV if you like."
Which is kind of funny, considering that the Prudhoe bay operation is largely run by BP, and they've had problems with bits of the system that feeds into the pipeline itself.
Everything I read really stressed that BP owns 47% of the pipeline.
So you are saying the oil spill in the gulf is a Balrog? o_O
I have a feeling that the Balrog would take one look at the oil spill in the gulf and say "fuck that shit" and crawl back into his eternal domain of fire
Just imagine the twittersphere and Facebook and all the other social media sites as the disaster spreads around the world until it's one last person who tweets, "is ther nebody out there"
... Wow that's depressing.
It means the evangelicals win. That is in fact some fucking bullshit.
"turn of the lights lol"
millions of people might lose their livelihood, their possessions, or even their lives
but not ALL OF THEM
Because a minor spill isn't a thing?