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Computer Build Thead: AMD joins NVidia, Intel in confusing name club
lowlylowlycook
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Welcome to The Computer Build Thread
This thread is for discussing the art and science of building your own computer in particular which parts should be bought. A lot of the information we share would also be useful for picking out or customizing a commercially build computer. Obviously a lot of us are interested in gaming PCs but other uses are also discussed.
Feel free to post your build for comment or just your budget and what you need your computer to be capable of. The friendly people of this thread can set you on the right track or give you options to save money or have a better computer or sometimes both at once.
If we know the answer to some of the following questions it will help us to point you to the right computer for you.
If you need help or instructions on how to build your new computer take a look at this guide from techreport.com or this wiki article.
General Overview
While NVidia isn't providing the same level of competition with ATI as the last few years and you cant mooch off of the Windows 7 beta anymore, you can still build a very nice gaming computer for not much money. A well thought out $600 will play almost any game at a much higher resolution and with more graphical tricks applied than a 360 or PS3. For a bit more you can build a very powerful computer indeed.
Why build a computer rather than buy one already put together?
The main downside is that if you make your own computer then you are going to have to fix it if something goes wrong. It can be slightly tense after you put your new box together and are ready to press the power button for the first time and it's pretty annoying to have to RMA parts and let your computer sit there while you wait for parts that work.
Where to shop:
These days most people buy most of their parts from newegg because they have a nice combination of selection, prices, customer ratings of the various parts, customer service and easily searched inventory. If you do buy from newegg keep an eye out for free shipping and nice "combo deals" that could save you a few extra bucks. You can often save $20 each off of a HD/OS combo, Motherboard/CPU combo, Case/Powersupply combo, etc. Otherwise good places to look include Zipzoomfly.com, Amazon especially for free shipping, Microcenter if you have one nearby (they often have very nice prices on CPUs it seems), Dell has nice deals on monitors from time to time.
For Canada apparently the strategy is to buy from NCIX using their pricematching policy. Read more here.
CPUs and Motherboards
CPU's are the most critical part for most computers although these days gaming computers' performance depends more on the GPU in most cases. In any case you're going to need one.
These days the method AMD and Intel use to make faster CPUs is to basically put multiple CPUs (called cores) on one chip. The problem with this is that a program has to be specifically written to use more than one CPU and that isn't necessarily easy. In short only some applications get any boost from these extra cores.
Up to now most games didn't use more than 1 or 2 cores with any efficiency so for a gaming rig a 2 provided the most bang for the buck. Now more games can make use of more than 2 cores now and it's very likely that even more will in the future so I think that it's best to get at least a 3 core CPU or a 2 core CPU with hypertheading is a good bet for better performance down the line. For more CPU intensive purposes like encoding video or ray tracing a quad core CPU will be faster. Anandtech has a nice database of CPU benchmarks.
Each flavor of CPU will also come in different speeds (Ghz). Faster is better but keep in mind that these speeds can't be compared from one type of CPU to another since each CPU can do a different amount of work in each tick.
For AMD there are currently 2 lines Athlon II and Phenom II. They are basically similar but the Phenom IIs have a L3 cache and are more expensive for the same number of cores and clock speed. Most if not all of the CPUs you should want should fit in a AM3 socket.
If you can figure out Intel's naming scheme then please contact me. AFAIK, the i3 i5 and i7 processors all can have different numbers of cores, features (hyperthreading or turbo boost) and socket requirements. So pay close attention to any advice you get on exactly which one to buy. The old core 2 cpus are still good enough for gaming but the quad core versions are probably too expensive compared to the new i line.
Finally, you might want to pay attention to how much power the CPUs you are considering consume or how much overclocking room they each have.
Low end $150 for CPU+motherboard.
A step up ($250 for CPU+motherboard)
The new i5 750 and a motherboard will set you back about $300 and up. These are very fast and if you think you want to spend more than that you should think twice. A Phenom II X3 is a cheaper option that provides good performance.
Maximum Power ($500 and up)
i7s are more expensive than i5s and some require more expensive motherboards. Their only advantage is Hyperthreading so make sure your application performs very well in multiple threads before you splurge.
There are also now 6 core CPUs available. These can provide very good performance for the dollar for applications that can use all of those cores.
Choosing a motherboard
Once you have a CPU picked out then you have a lot of choices for which motherboard to pair with it. You should want:
Memory
Memory is cheap and the speed doesn't matter nearly as much as the quantity. Even then once you have "enough" memory more doesn't really help. So get 4 gigabytes and if you are going with an i7 on 1366 CPU then get 6. Just make sure your memory is compatible with your motherboard and your memory comes with a good warranty. Also take a glance to see that your memory doesn't require too high a voltage. For DDR2 1.8V or less should be good without any need mess around. For DDR3 1.65V or less would be better.
Storage
Standard Hard Drives up to 1TB in size are priced from $100 on down. Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB for $100 or so might be a good place to start.
Finally solid state drives are finally become viable as a primary drive. Be careful what you buy since most of these drives have pretty poor performance. Also, you'll probably need a normal hard drive to store all your porn since the cost per gigabyte is still pretty high.Intel X-25s are the best and most expensive while OCZ's Vertex line is still fast but quite a bit cheaper. For more details check out the storage tab of anandtech.com.
Almost every computer will need a $25 DVD player/writer but for $75 more you can add the ability to play Blu-Ray movies.
Video Cards
These are critical for PC gaming, obviously. Compared to previous years your dollar will go a long way and the rate at which you need to upgrade has slowed down. This is probably due to a combination of the high cost of producing graphically impressive games and the rising dominance of the console is some genres that used to be PC staples.
Keep in mind that the naming of GPUs (and thus video cards) can be a bit confusing. Normally the first digit is for the generation of cards, the second is for which tier (high end gaming, midrange or something suitable for office drones only) and the third might represent just clockspeeds or number of cores which will affect speed but not by a huge amount. Confusingly the second number is often the most important. Often GPUs with a low second digit won't play even oldish games competently. In any case pay close attention to exactly what you are buying because just one digit different will literally be an entire different class of performance.
Video Cards
Current (DX11) cards[/SIZE][/B]With NVidia's GTX 460 competition in the video cards is heating back up. With current pricing a 5770 will be a good buy for people that don't need either super high resolutions or care about pushing max settings on the most demanding games. For those that need more a GTX 460 5850 or 5870 should cover your needs while a 5670 might be sufficient for someone that isn't that into PC gaming or is stuck at playing at low resolutions.
Older (DX10) cards
NVidia used to be more competitive in the last generation (in particular the 260 GTX was a good buy) but they seem to have shut down production so their cards targeted at gamers aren't that competitive. And their lower tier of cards (Anything lower than a GTS 250) is beset by so many name changes that I can't be bothered to keep track.
These days DX10 cards are best used to either hit price points that ATI 5XXX series has missed (at $100 the 4850 or GTS 250 are still capable cards if you don't care for DX11) or to provide PhysX or 3D support if you can find a good price on an old NVidia GPU, e.g. $140 for a GTX 260 would basically let you trade DX11 for PhysX when compared to an ATI 5770.
Low end (~$100)
Amazingly video cards at this level are capable of playing all but the most demanding games with good quality settings and at nice resolutions. The ATI cards are the best value in this range.
A step up($140-$200)
Maximum Power ($200+)
[*]NVidiaGTX 460 is just a bit more than $200 and is a very nice card.
[*]ATI Radeon 5850 have enough performance for most gamers.
[*]ATI Radeon 5870 a bit more power than a 5850.
[*]NVidia GTX 480 most powerful GPU out there.
[/LIST]
Cases and Power Supplies
You are going to need a case to put all these parts into and your are going to need a power supply to make them work. Cases are a very personal preference type of thing and there are tons of different models for sale. Here is a list of cases recommended by PAers:
You shouldn't cheap out on power supplies and if you do the be very careful. A bad powersupply won't last long and when it goes it may well damage your more expensive parts. The problem is that the company that makes your power supply is likely to be different than the one on the box and it's harder for websites to test a power supply's reliability than it is for them to check how many FPS a video card gets while running Crysis. Be especially wary of power supplies that come bundled with a case.
Another consideration would be a modular power supply. For a bit of extra money these let you remove cables that you don't need, freeing up space and reducing clutter inside your case.
Low end(less than $100 for Case and PS):
Sample Builds:
These are just to serve as a starting point. You may find components at a discount or new, compelling bits of electronics may have shown up since these were created.
Budget build(<$600):
This computer is actually quite capable of playing most games at the highest settings (at reasonable resolutions) but keeps the price low.
AMD Athlon II X3 440 Rana 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor $77
ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard $80
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $55
SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB Video Card $150
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) $82
LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model $22
Rosewill R101-P-BK 120mm Fan MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case $30
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX PSU $60
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit $99
Total = $656 - $49 in Combos = $607 - $50 in MiR = $557 including OS.
Bang for the buck build:
Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core $115
ASUS CuCore Series EAH5770 CuCore/2DI/1GD5 Radeon HD 5770 1GB $158
MSI P55-GD65 LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Motherboard$160
Rosewill Blackbone Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $40
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM $100
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W Power Supply $60
LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM $23
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $95
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $70
Total $821 - $50 in combo deal = $771 - $50 in MiR = $721
Powerhouse build(~$1000):
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 $199
GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard$135
SAPPHIRE 100282SR Radeon HD 5850 1GB Video Card $300
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 160 memory $94
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $99
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $100
Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply $70
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner$24
Windows 7 Home Premium $105
Total $1128 - $60 in combos = $1068
Builds below this are obsolete.
If you really want to go crazy I guess it would be best to wait a few months and see what kind of monstrosity NVidia has managed to produce.
E-Peen Build ($Texas)
I can't recommend buying a faster i7 since the prices are too high but if you want an "ultimate computer" go ahead and buy that second GPU and a super fast SSD.
HIS H489F1GP Radeon HD 4890 1GB x 2 $380
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz$280
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Motherboard $200
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB Hard Drive $100
Antec EA750 750W power supply $110
Antec 900 case $100
Patriot Viper 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 $86
Intel X25-M 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) $314
LITE-ON Black 6X Blu-Ray DVD ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA $80
Total $1650 -$45 combo = $1605 -$35 MiR = $1570
Displays
Like cases, displays are a very personal choice and the cost can vary hugely. Most people use LCD monitors although CRTs have some advantages such as the ability to display multiple resolutions natively and naturally have both good response times and good contrast ratios.
As far as LCDs go the good news is that the natural LCD type for gaming is also the cheapest so you might not go too far wrong by going to a store and picking a model whose look, size and cost seem right to you. If you have more specific requirements you might know what you need or you might find this guide to be of use.
Low End < $200
Final Advice:
Don't be shy. Post what you are thinking of buying and you'll probably get some advice. If you don't have any idea where to start just post your budget and what you want to use your computer for and someone will probably point you in the right direction.
Checklist:
Make sure that:
General PC sites:
These are good places to find either reviews or benchmarking info.
http://techreport.com/ Has a nice build guide.
http://xbitlabs.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/ Nice monthly guide on what video cards are worth the money.
http://www.anandtech.com/ Also has build guides.
http://hardocp.com/
This thread is for discussing the art and science of building your own computer in particular which parts should be bought. A lot of the information we share would also be useful for picking out or customizing a commercially build computer. Obviously a lot of us are interested in gaming PCs but other uses are also discussed.
Feel free to post your build for comment or just your budget and what you need your computer to be capable of. The friendly people of this thread can set you on the right track or give you options to save money or have a better computer or sometimes both at once.
If we know the answer to some of the following questions it will help us to point you to the right computer for you.
- What is your total budget?
- What has to be included in that budget? Just an upgrade, just the computer itself or a computer with monitor, mouse and keyboard? Do you have parts from your old computer that you can use?
- Is this computer just for gaming and casual computer use or do you have other computationally intensive tasks in mind?
- What resolution to you plan on gaming at? Mostly this should be the native resolution of your monitor.
- Do you feel the need for cutting edge performance in the most demanding games (*cough* Crysis) or is good performance in most games and "good enough" performance in the most demanding games? Any particular games or upcoming games you care about?
- Are you biased towards either ATI/NVidia or Intel/AMD?
- How long do you want this computer to last, i.e. do you want to pay extra to try and "future proof" your computer so it won't have to be upgraded or replaced quite as soon?
- How important is being able to upgrade your computer at a later time?
If you need help or instructions on how to build your new computer take a look at this guide from techreport.com or this wiki article.
General Overview
While NVidia isn't providing the same level of competition with ATI as the last few years and you cant mooch off of the Windows 7 beta anymore, you can still build a very nice gaming computer for not much money. A well thought out $600 will play almost any game at a much higher resolution and with more graphical tricks applied than a 360 or PS3. For a bit more you can build a very powerful computer indeed.
Why build a computer rather than buy one already put together?
- While general use computers are sold at fairly reasonable prices at Dell or even Best Buy, retailers or manufacturers seem to think that gamers are willing to pay more and they price accordingly. Thus a home built gaming computer can be quite a bit cheaper.
- You have a lot more options for parts if you buy your own rather than buying pre-built. There are hundreds of video cards alone on newegg. This means that you can generally get better quality and/or meet any specific requirements (like a video card with a quieter fan if you are easily bothered by your computer's noise.
- In general it's a lot easier to upgrade a home built computer than a pre-built. All the parts will be standard size and you can be sure that your motherboard and power supply leave room for upgrading later.
- You can learn a bit about how your computer works since it won't just be a black box to you.
The main downside is that if you make your own computer then you are going to have to fix it if something goes wrong. It can be slightly tense after you put your new box together and are ready to press the power button for the first time and it's pretty annoying to have to RMA parts and let your computer sit there while you wait for parts that work.
Where to shop:
These days most people buy most of their parts from newegg because they have a nice combination of selection, prices, customer ratings of the various parts, customer service and easily searched inventory. If you do buy from newegg keep an eye out for free shipping and nice "combo deals" that could save you a few extra bucks. You can often save $20 each off of a HD/OS combo, Motherboard/CPU combo, Case/Powersupply combo, etc. Otherwise good places to look include Zipzoomfly.com, Amazon especially for free shipping, Microcenter if you have one nearby (they often have very nice prices on CPUs it seems), Dell has nice deals on monitors from time to time.
Left Wing jAy wrote: »If this is of any help to anyone, I've come across a number of online UK retailers.
Ebuyer.co.uk
Large catalogue of components; essentially a UK 'newegg', I guess
Novatech.co.uk
Also offers alot of components, as well as custom systems. Rated highly on quite a few forums.
For Canada apparently the strategy is to buy from NCIX using their pricematching policy. Read more here.
CPUs and Motherboards
CPU's are the most critical part for most computers although these days gaming computers' performance depends more on the GPU in most cases. In any case you're going to need one.
These days the method AMD and Intel use to make faster CPUs is to basically put multiple CPUs (called cores) on one chip. The problem with this is that a program has to be specifically written to use more than one CPU and that isn't necessarily easy. In short only some applications get any boost from these extra cores.
Up to now most games didn't use more than 1 or 2 cores with any efficiency so for a gaming rig a 2 provided the most bang for the buck. Now more games can make use of more than 2 cores now and it's very likely that even more will in the future so I think that it's best to get at least a 3 core CPU or a 2 core CPU with hypertheading is a good bet for better performance down the line. For more CPU intensive purposes like encoding video or ray tracing a quad core CPU will be faster. Anandtech has a nice database of CPU benchmarks.
Each flavor of CPU will also come in different speeds (Ghz). Faster is better but keep in mind that these speeds can't be compared from one type of CPU to another since each CPU can do a different amount of work in each tick.
For AMD there are currently 2 lines Athlon II and Phenom II. They are basically similar but the Phenom IIs have a L3 cache and are more expensive for the same number of cores and clock speed. Most if not all of the CPUs you should want should fit in a AM3 socket.
If you can figure out Intel's naming scheme then please contact me. AFAIK, the i3 i5 and i7 processors all can have different numbers of cores, features (hyperthreading or turbo boost) and socket requirements. So pay close attention to any advice you get on exactly which one to buy. The old core 2 cpus are still good enough for gaming but the quad core versions are probably too expensive compared to the new i line.
Finally, you might want to pay attention to how much power the CPUs you are considering consume or how much overclocking room they each have.
Low end $150 for CPU+motherboard.
- Intel Pentium E5200 Cheap and still fairly fast. This dual core CPU is also easy to overclock.
- AMD Athlon II X2 or Phenom II X2s are also nice and cheap while being quite fast.
- AMD Athlon II X3 a good compromise between single and multi-core performance.
A step up ($250 for CPU+motherboard)
The new i5 750 and a motherboard will set you back about $300 and up. These are very fast and if you think you want to spend more than that you should think twice. A Phenom II X3 is a cheaper option that provides good performance.
- AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition Three cores, good speed and easily overclockable.
- AMD Athlon II X4 Pretty cheap 4 core cpus. Pretty good compromise between gaming performance and multithreaded performance if both are important to you.
- Intel i3 520 Two cores but hyper threading gives better than usual multithreading performance. Other i3's are too expensive for the small speed boost. So are the 2 core i5s.
- Intel i5 750 4 cores but without hypertheading. Still very fast for the money.
Maximum Power ($500 and up)
i7s are more expensive than i5s and some require more expensive motherboards. Their only advantage is Hyperthreading so make sure your application performs very well in multiple threads before you splurge.
There are also now 6 core CPUs available. These can provide very good performance for the dollar for applications that can use all of those cores.
- Intel Core i7-920 on 1366 sockets
- Intel COre i7 860 on 1156 sockets
- AMD Phenom II X6 1090T
- Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition
Choosing a motherboard
Once you have a CPU picked out then you have a lot of choices for which motherboard to pair with it. You should want:
- A stable board: make sure feedback on newegg is mostly very positive.
- The features you want: Do you need raid? Xfire? SLI? A large number of SATA ports?
- If you plan to overclock, you'll want a board with a reputation of being good for that.
- A low price. Don't pay a lot for features you don't need. Also some chipsets may have advantages that don't work out in practice.
Memory
Memory is cheap and the speed doesn't matter nearly as much as the quantity. Even then once you have "enough" memory more doesn't really help. So get 4 gigabytes and if you are going with an i7 on 1366 CPU then get 6. Just make sure your memory is compatible with your motherboard and your memory comes with a good warranty. Also take a glance to see that your memory doesn't require too high a voltage. For DDR2 1.8V or less should be good without any need mess around. For DDR3 1.65V or less would be better.
Storage
Standard Hard Drives up to 1TB in size are priced from $100 on down. Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB for $100 or so might be a good place to start.
Finally solid state drives are finally become viable as a primary drive. Be careful what you buy since most of these drives have pretty poor performance. Also, you'll probably need a normal hard drive to store all your porn since the cost per gigabyte is still pretty high.Intel X-25s are the best and most expensive while OCZ's Vertex line is still fast but quite a bit cheaper. For more details check out the storage tab of anandtech.com.
Almost every computer will need a $25 DVD player/writer but for $75 more you can add the ability to play Blu-Ray movies.
Video Cards
These are critical for PC gaming, obviously. Compared to previous years your dollar will go a long way and the rate at which you need to upgrade has slowed down. This is probably due to a combination of the high cost of producing graphically impressive games and the rising dominance of the console is some genres that used to be PC staples.
Keep in mind that the naming of GPUs (and thus video cards) can be a bit confusing. Normally the first digit is for the generation of cards, the second is for which tier (high end gaming, midrange or something suitable for office drones only) and the third might represent just clockspeeds or number of cores which will affect speed but not by a huge amount. Confusingly the second number is often the most important. Often GPUs with a low second digit won't play even oldish games competently. In any case pay close attention to exactly what you are buying because just one digit different will literally be an entire different class of performance.
Video Cards
Current (DX11) cards[/SIZE][/B]With NVidia's GTX 460 competition in the video cards is heating back up. With current pricing a 5770 will be a good buy for people that don't need either super high resolutions or care about pushing max settings on the most demanding games. For those that need more a GTX 460 5850 or 5870 should cover your needs while a 5670 might be sufficient for someone that isn't that into PC gaming or is stuck at playing at low resolutions.
Older (DX10) cards
NVidia used to be more competitive in the last generation (in particular the 260 GTX was a good buy) but they seem to have shut down production so their cards targeted at gamers aren't that competitive. And their lower tier of cards (Anything lower than a GTS 250) is beset by so many name changes that I can't be bothered to keep track.
These days DX10 cards are best used to either hit price points that ATI 5XXX series has missed (at $100 the 4850 or GTS 250 are still capable cards if you don't care for DX11) or to provide PhysX or 3D support if you can find a good price on an old NVidia GPU, e.g. $140 for a GTX 260 would basically let you trade DX11 for PhysX when compared to an ATI 5770.
Low end (~$100)
Amazingly video cards at this level are capable of playing all but the most demanding games with good quality settings and at nice resolutions. The ATI cards are the best value in this range.
- ATI Radeon 4850 512MB -- Be wary of Sapphire 4850s, several posters here have had problems with these.
- ATI Radeon 4770 512MB Slightly slower than the 4850 but uses less power.
- NVidia GTS 250 A bit more expensive than the ATI cards but some like NVidia's drivers or want PhysX support.
- ATI Radeon 5750 512 MB would be a good value at $100 but given current pricing it seem most will want to step up to a 5770.
A step up($140-$200)
- ATI Radeon 5770 A tad slower than the 4870 but has DX11 support and uses less power.
Maximum Power ($200+)
[*]NVidiaGTX 460 is just a bit more than $200 and is a very nice card.
[*]ATI Radeon 5850 have enough performance for most gamers.
[*]ATI Radeon 5870 a bit more power than a 5850.
[*]NVidia GTX 480 most powerful GPU out there.
[/LIST]
Cases and Power Supplies
You are going to need a case to put all these parts into and your are going to need a power supply to make them work. Cases are a very personal preference type of thing and there are tons of different models for sale. Here is a list of cases recommended by PAers:
You shouldn't cheap out on power supplies and if you do the be very careful. A bad powersupply won't last long and when it goes it may well damage your more expensive parts. The problem is that the company that makes your power supply is likely to be different than the one on the box and it's harder for websites to test a power supply's reliability than it is for them to check how many FPS a video card gets while running Crysis. Be especially wary of power supplies that come bundled with a case.
Another consideration would be a modular power supply. For a bit of extra money these let you remove cables that you don't need, freeing up space and reducing clutter inside your case.
A quality power supply is necessary for a stable gaming system. "Total Watts" is heavily advertised, but not very important (or in many cases even very accurate). What is important is the quality of the brand, and the amps on the +12v rail. Get something with at least 28A on the +12v rail(s) for single-card systems. Try to get something 80-plus certified, because this will actually save on your energy bill and is usually a sign of a quality psu. Corsair and Antec generally make the most affordable psu's that meet these criteria (at least in the US).
Low end(less than $100 for Case and PS):
- Antec NSK4480B ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply $80 Power supply isn't overly powerful but it should work if it's enough.
- Antec Sonata III 500 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply $110 Should be adequate unless you need 2 video cards
- Antec 300 or other case coupled with BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550
- LIAN LI PC-65B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case or other case coupled with CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W
Power Supplies suitable for running 2 GTX 260s or 2 4870s or similar.
Power supplies suitable for running 1 GTX 260, 4870 or similar or 2 GTS 250, 4850, 4770 or similar:
Power supplies suitable for GTS 250, 4850, 4770 or similar:
- PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W
- CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V
- Antec EA-750 750W Continuous Power
- SeaSonic M12 SS-700HM 700W
Power supplies suitable for running 1 GTX 260, 4870 or similar or 2 GTS 250, 4850, 4770 or similar:
- BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W
- Antec earthwatts EA500 500W
- CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W
- Sonata III case with power supply.
- SeaSonic SS-500ET 500W
Power supplies suitable for GTS 250, 4850, 4770 or similar:
Sample Builds:
These are just to serve as a starting point. You may find components at a discount or new, compelling bits of electronics may have shown up since these were created.
Budget build(<$600):
This computer is actually quite capable of playing most games at the highest settings (at reasonable resolutions) but keeps the price low.
AMD Athlon II X3 440 Rana 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor $77
ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard $80
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $55
SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB Video Card $150
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) $82
LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model $22
Rosewill R101-P-BK 120mm Fan MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case $30
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX PSU $60
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit $99
Total = $656 - $49 in Combos = $607 - $50 in MiR = $557 including OS.
Bang for the buck build:
Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core $115
ASUS CuCore Series EAH5770 CuCore/2DI/1GD5 Radeon HD 5770 1GB $158
MSI P55-GD65 LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Motherboard$160
Rosewill Blackbone Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $40
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM $100
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W Power Supply $60
LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM $23
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $95
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $70
Total $821 - $50 in combo deal = $771 - $50 in MiR = $721
Powerhouse build(~$1000):
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 $199
GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard$135
SAPPHIRE 100282SR Radeon HD 5850 1GB Video Card $300
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 160 memory $94
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $99
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $100
Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply $70
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner$24
Windows 7 Home Premium $105
Total $1128 - $60 in combos = $1068
Builds below this are obsolete.
If you really want to go crazy I guess it would be best to wait a few months and see what kind of monstrosity NVidia has managed to produce.
E-Peen Build ($Texas)
I can't recommend buying a faster i7 since the prices are too high but if you want an "ultimate computer" go ahead and buy that second GPU and a super fast SSD.
HIS H489F1GP Radeon HD 4890 1GB x 2 $380
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz$280
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Motherboard $200
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB Hard Drive $100
Antec EA750 750W power supply $110
Antec 900 case $100
Patriot Viper 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 $86
Intel X25-M 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) $314
LITE-ON Black 6X Blu-Ray DVD ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA $80
Total $1650 -$45 combo = $1605 -$35 MiR = $1570
Displays
Like cases, displays are a very personal choice and the cost can vary hugely. Most people use LCD monitors although CRTs have some advantages such as the ability to display multiple resolutions natively and naturally have both good response times and good contrast ratios.
As far as LCDs go the good news is that the natural LCD type for gaming is also the cheapest so you might not go too far wrong by going to a store and picking a model whose look, size and cost seem right to you. If you have more specific requirements you might know what you need or you might find this guide to be of use.
Low End < $200
- ASUS VW224U Black 22"
- HP's LP2475w
- 3007WFP-HC
Final Advice:
Don't be shy. Post what you are thinking of buying and you'll probably get some advice. If you don't have any idea where to start just post your budget and what you want to use your computer for and someone will probably point you in the right direction.
Checklist:
Make sure that:
- Your CPU matches your motherboard (What's the slot type)
- Your Motherboard matches your case (ATX or micro ATX)
- Your Memory matches your Motherboard (DDR 2 or DDR3)
- Your Powersupply matches your Video Card (Really you should be making sure that your powersupply has the right connectors and has enough power on its 12V "rails")
General PC sites:
These are good places to find either reviews or benchmarking info.
http://techreport.com/ Has a nice build guide.
http://xbitlabs.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/ Nice monthly guide on what video cards are worth the money.
http://www.anandtech.com/ Also has build guides.
http://hardocp.com/
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lowlylowlycook on
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Anyway, any and all corrections are appreciated and I guess we can start posting builds for consideration. If you follow my format it will save me a good bit of work on newegg.
Have at it!
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Some weeks ago, my old computer finally died on me after many years of good use.
So I've been looking around for deals on ebuyer. My finances are pretty dire if i'm honest. £550-£600 is pretty much pushing my budget to it's limit.
So far i've found this and it seems (to my untrained eye) to be pretty good. I understand the card isn't very good for gaming, but it's better than the crap I used on my old one. I'm looking for a gaming PC only, so is this a good deal?
I'd like to make my own PC from scratch, but I just don't have the patience or technical confidence for it right now; playing games from no later than 2004 on my current PC is slowly killing me. I'll enjoy building a dream machine when i'm not dirt poor.
Well at GTS 210 is basically useless. A £60 4670 would be much more powerful.
I know that you don't want to build yourself but your situation is exactly that which building your own would make the biggest difference in performance.
Just taking a quick look at ebuyer this seems like a better bet even after spending more on a copy of W7.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
i'm going to be looking at the 1k box very soon
My Lancool K62 arrived. It is awfully sexy. I won't actually be ordering the bits to put into the box until June, barring some huge sale or a breakdown in willpower. So it's sort of sad. Sexy and sad.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Total of $1,149.91
I need everything (monitor included) for a high end of the middle range desktop gaming pc. i know it's overkill for starcraft 2 but this is what i'm building it for, as well as other current games
is there anything about compabitility that i should know about? i'd like this to be quiet as possible, but i'm not sure what i can do really. also what are options for tv tuners and wireless internet?
thanks
The problem with building my own PC is that if something goes wrong (and it most likely will, knowing my luck), without a warranty I'd have no way to replace/repair what went wrong for quite a while.
Other than the graphics card though, is there anything else bad about the one I linked?
As for the one you linked, I don't like the look of the motherboard (nvidia, with an ATI gpu?). Also, apparently some reviews have claimed the PSU is smaller than advertised.
And finally; if I do go for this one, should I get 64-bit windows 7 or 32? (I'd say 64 but I have to be sure, I'm new to w7).
Then again if you want a gaming PC on a very tight budget then maybe it's worth a bit of hassle. This question makes no sense because for a gaming PC the graphics card is the most important part. And a 210 is terrible, terrible, terrible. Well it's a pre-built it's expected to suck. And while nvidia motherboards suck, their is no conflict between the motherboards chipset and the GPU. Anyway, just look around and find something similar. But make sure it has a credible GPU. There is no point in buying a gaming PC with less than a NVidia GTS 240 or an ATI 4670.
Go for 64 bit.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
At this point I'm going to go for the earlier build you suggested, and then work on building my 'dream machine' in the future (preferably after I finally get that loan). I'd do it now, but the CPU installation has me spooked (I know, stupid but as I've said but I'm dogged by bad luck) and I'm simply just too indecisive on the other components. I just want a gaming rig that will tide me over 'till the loan comes in.
So thanks again.
EDIT: And I remembered earlier that I bought a 500W PSU a few weeks ago so that's not a problem.
If you're keen to have a "stand in" computer, you could try building the system lowlycook just listed and put in a cheap 4850 or something.
When you get your money you can just replace some parts and go up to a faster X3 or X4 processor and get a 5xxx GPU.
If you're really tight on budget it doesn't make a lot of sense to waste money on a throwaway PC.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
All prices in canadollars.
E: Confused by the fact that my memory says "i5", wondering if it'll work with my MB and CPU.
edit: psyck0 that memory should work fine, personally i'm not a huge fan of asrock and would probably go with another brand of mobo, but it'll work
In a few months something'll come out that offers a much better ratio.
What? Seriously?
Between the current generation of ATI cards and what's left of the last generation, bang for buck in re: graphics cards is as high as it's ever been.
Battle.net
Actually, i'd really like to know what website this is, those prices are far better than anything on ebuyer...
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I'd agree. Buying the 5770 for under 200 bucks and the massive increase I saw in performance may have put me off buying brand new cards for 600 bucks ever again.
PSN : Bolthorn
With me or him? I mean, the 5850 is an absolute freaking beast, even at full HD resolutions, and you can get it for 300 bucks if you're even a little bit savvy. The 5770 or 4870 are great cards at under $200 as well.
There might be a case for the notion that you don't really need a card that retails for above $200 (though there can be no denying that the 5770 and its compadres are less adept above 1680x1050), but it doesn't necessarily follow that there is less bang for your buck these days, even at the higher end. In fact, solid low-end cards tend to imply solid high-end cards. And look at it like this, if it used to be that you had to spend 5 to 6 hundred dollars on a high-end card, take a gander at the 5870. Flagship level performance at a substantial discount. That notion is even more true for the 5850.
Battle.net
Nevertheless, what do you think of these? Alot of them are your suggestions, but I tweaked a little here and there based on what models ebuyer had or what I had to cut out due to cost limits (£500):
OCZ 400W Stealth XStream PSU - 140mm Fan 1x PCI-E 4x SATA
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
Sapphire HD 5670 1GB GDDR5 HDMI DVI DisplayPort PCI-E Graphics Card
Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache - OEM
Crucial 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz/PC3-10600 Memory Kit CL9 1.5V
AMD Athlon II X2 250 Socket AM3 3.0GHz 2MB L2 Cache Retail Box Processor
Gigabyte GA-MA770T-ES3 AMD 770 Socket AM3 8 Channel Audio ATX Motherboard
Coolermaster Elite 330 Black Mid Tower Case - No PSU
No DVD-RW as I already have one.
I recommend the 955 BE. It's only 8 more of your Monopoly dollars (silly Canadians) it's clocked higher, and it'll OC better (if you're into that).
Not sure where you found a 300 for that price, but my preference in entry-level mid-towers is the NZXT Gamma.
I also recommend the spending of 10 additional canada-land funbucks for this motherboard.
If the cost of your PSU omits shipping, this one might be a better deal.
And that's all I've got. Your RAM is fine, it's "certified" for use with i5 processors, which is an entirely worthless marketing gimmick designed to appeal to PC builders with more money than sense. The choice of mentioning it with those sticks is odd, though, given that they are some of Corsair's more reasonably priced kits.
Battle.net
What resolution TV/Monitor are you hooking this up to?
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Any thoughts on this setup?
Item #: N82E16819103808
ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813131402
SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Item #: N82E16814102873
Item #: N82E16811129066
Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ...
Item #: N82E16817371015
Item #: N82E16820231193
Item #: N82E16822136283
Item #: N82E16827106289
Item #: N82E16827106276
Item #: N82E16824236053
Item #: N82E16832116754
Since I've currently got a 17-inch 4:3 LCD, I'm thinking I need to splurge for a widescreen monitor. And while I wonder if 21.5" is too big, I'd rather future proof it with the HD resolution, and I don't think 20" LCDs can do 1080p.
I notice the reviews for the ASUS motherboard mention an issue with compatibility with C3 revision AMD CPUs. Should this be something that I need to be concerned with, or would a board bought today have a more recent BIOS?
Oh, it's basically going to be a WoW/Internet Box.
Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated (especially suggestions that'll drop the price
I agree with you. The whole, I got a pretty decent card for sub 200 bucks that plays games my prior card barely ran. Bad Company 2 ran like total crap on my trusty 7950GX2, but runs great on the 5770. Yes, the 7950GX2 is older, but I bought it when it was top of the line. It seems, and I could be wrong, that when I bought that card I needed to get the latest and greatest to run most games decently and it was pretty expensive, where with the 5770, it was sub 200 and runs everything I've thrown at it more than adequately so far.
So I think it's definitely a great time as far as bang for buck goes. Hopefully it'll get even better in the future.
PSN : Bolthorn
Thanks! Should have said that all parts were on NCIX, with $5.99 ground shipping for the entire order.
Right now, I'm using 1280x1024. I really can't afford to buy a new one as yet, but that would be my next purchase (estimated 2 months or so).
Got any good suggestions there?
On NCIX, the 955 is $30 more than the 945. It's worth getting on NCIX to me because of the basically free shipping and the option to have them put it together for me (I don't have parts to swap in if anything is DOA to find what parts are broken). I can try to price match the 955, but I would be getting it bundled with the power supply for a $30 discount on the power supply so they may not let me. If I can't price match, is it still worth $30 more?
Changed the mobo (actually cheaper than mine on NCIX, too!) and can price match your case. Thanks for the advice!
I'm going to be buying a new monitor by the 28th of this month, and I've been doing a lot of looking around for the perfect monitor. I've been looking at size (I want something BIG), price, and image quality/colors. I don't really care too much about things like USB hubs, perfect viewing angles (I'll be looking at it directly, after all), or being able to rotate the screen vertically.
Ultimately, I think I'll be buying an HP monitor. I especially like them for their BrightView feature, which is a high-gloss, anti-reflective LCD technology that apparently allows for "clearer images, wide viewing angles, high contrast, vivid colors, and reduced eye fatigue." They're suppose to have a larger range of colors compared to typical LCD monitors. It's still not an IPS panel, but it's pretty good. My friend has one and loves it.
Here's the 25" model for $268.07:
http://www.amazon.com/2509m-25-Inch-Diagonal-Monitor-Black/dp/B002MT6SDU/ref=dp_cp_ob_pc_title_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1265148350&sr=1-5
And here's the 27" model (the one I'll probably be buying) for $366.54:
http://www.amazon.com/2709m-27-Inch-Diagonal-Monitor-Black/dp/B002JJIFDY/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1265148350&sr=1-5
Perhaps the prices might come down by the time you intend to buy one in two months, too.
Hell, I'm still rocking my 8800gt and everything looks very pretty. I can damn near max everything I play out at 1920x1080 as long as I don't mind low AA. Since everything gets made for the consoles, there's not a big graphical push on PC.
I definitely want one, but they're still very expensive. Why spend hundreds of dollars for a 60GB to 80GB SSD hard drive when I can spend 80 dollars for a 1TB regular hard drive?
This is true, but I've never needed a huge hard drive. I'm still using a 230GB HD and it's not really an annoyance. I'd much rather have my PC boot up instantly and instantly get into games of Bad Company 2 than be able to fit every file on the internet on my hard drive. but yeah, hundreds of dollars for less than 100 gigs is pretty steep...
another random question: 4GB is still considered more than enough RAM? I would have thought 6 gigs would be the standard by now, especially considering how comparatively cheap memory is... but the mobo in the "powerhouse" build in the OP only has room for 2 sticks...
also, is the PSU in the powerhouse build in the OP beefy enough? I mean, I'm sure it must be if you're not running multiple graphics cards, but less than 600W in a gaming rig always makes me worry it's not enough juice...
so yeah, if you can't tell, I'm seriously trying to build a rig I want off of that build in the OP
Well I think once you have a midrange CPU and GPU you should start thinking about buying a SSD rather than upgrading either of those since in most cases those will be just fractional upgrades while the SSD is a big leap in performance over a platter drive.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I'm sort of frightened of actually building the thing myself. My last 2 PCs, I got from www.mwave.com . They have/had an awesome assembly+testing package for like $85. Pick all your own parts and they'll throw them together for you and make sure they work. Considering how many hours I'm sure I'll be spending putting together my own machine, installing OS, drivers, etc, $85 to do all that is kind of a bargain. however, it looks like that option isn't on their website anymore... maybe they stopped doing it.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
BIOSTAR A785G3 AM3 AMD 785G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon II X2 245 Regor 2.9GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Processor
Antec Three Hundred + BP430 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 430W Power Supply
Those components, along with an optical drive, hard drive, and 4gb RAM would set me back just under $400. For video card, I was thinking maybe a 9800 GT. There seems to be a good number of those to be had for under $100.
My needs are modest. I don't do as much gaming as used to, and I'm pretty content with moderate graphics settings, as long as the games run smoothly. I would love to be able to play Starcraft 2 though, if that's a realistic goal for a budget system. So how viable is this? Suggestions are welcome.