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Harry Dresden: Wizard, White Knight and Complete Dork.

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Posts

  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    If justin dumorne is still alive, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I like this idea

    Arch on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I'm ressurecting this thread to ask a question about Changes!
    So Harry is in the church and Butters is shot by the assassin with the pistol, Butters lives, and Harry interrogates him about who hired him. He produces a picture of Susan, and the assassin agrees that that's who hired him. THEN THEY NEVER MENTION IT AGAIN. Unless I missed it. What the fuck? Susan tried to have Harry killed? why?

    SniperGuy on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    It's been months since I read that, but I think I recall believing for some reason that the guy was just fucking with him.

    But without glancing at the chapter again, I can't be certain.

    That said, I'm up to White Knight again on my re-read of the series, and I continue to find little dangling loose ends. Might just have to compile a master list of them from my earlier posts on the matter once we draw closer to Ghost Story's release, as I should definitely finish the last half dozen books in the intervening months.

    Some of the points I think I might've just forgotten being addressed as an aside in a later book, but others I think will be touched upon later. If there's one thing I appreciate about Butcher is his habit of establishing continuity across the stories, with little threads that seem innocuous but become relavent literally a dozen books later.

    Sometimes I wonder if he's got a giant wall dedicated to everything being inteconnected in the books, or if he just intentionally leaves a few odd/weird/unanswered things in each book at random and later comes back to them and makes them fit. Like, is it all part of a decade long plan, or is he just leaving himself enough room to draw in whatever he likes later on and make it appear like a decade long plan?

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • reddeathreddeath Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Does anyone else listen to the audiobook editions of these?

    I'm a big fan of James Marsters' narration. He really gets into telling the stories from first person as harry, he totally sold me on the series, and it's made my commute to and from work fantastic for several months.

    reddeath on
  • badpoetbadpoet Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Changes ending
    I agree it was likely Kincaid, but he could be doing it on behest of the Archive because Ivy owes Harry her life and wellbeing and she wouldn't want him to suffer being the Winter Knight, especially after he turned down great power by refusing Lash and the Denarians and Mab's proposals so many times.

    Of couse, Lea could have hired Kincaid or someone else as well to steal the mantle, but even with it and the knife she had, she probably wouldn't be a match for Mab.

    Justin coming back and/or being the head of the Black Council wouldn't surprise me at all. Nor would it surprise me to find Harry meeting his mother in the "afterlife" and her and Bob helping him make his way back to life.

    badpoet on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    badpoet wrote: »
    Changes ending
    Of couse, Lea could have hired Kincaid or someone else as well to steal the mantle, but even with it and the knife she had, she probably wouldn't be a match for Mab.

    If I'm not mistaken...
    Doesn't Mab now have the knife? I recall in the last few books (where Mab has imprisoned Lea) that she's noted as having a particular dagger in her posession. I don't recall if it's identified as the exact same one or not, but her general description does include a dagger at least once or twice.

    That said, I have no idea if this would be a permanent exchange, or if she was merely holding it/using it while Mab was imprisoned. Does anyone remember Lea being noted as posessing it again after she's released?

    That does tie into one of the loose ends though that I've been pondering; what is it that seems to be driving the winter court mad (the reports of Mab possibly going a little loopy, and Lea freaking out on Harry when they speak while she's frozen in the fountain after rescuing Molly)? And later (possibly/likely related?) what is it that steals Mab's voice? I can't recall the exact book, perhaps Turn Coat, but she shows up with some odd cat as her voice for a while.

    That said, it has occurred to me that some of these threads may also have been dealt with in some of the related short stories, which we're going to see some of at the end of the month with Side Jobs (such and events hinted at revolving around Billy and Georgia during one of the books).

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • mightyspacepopemightyspacepope Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    For any Dresden readers who are itching while waiting for the next book, I'm about halfway through the first novel of Simon R. Green's Nightside series. It's also about a supernatural PI, but the universe is a lot different than the Dresdenverse. It's almost as if they put Dresden into Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere.

    mightyspacepope on
  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    reddeath wrote: »
    Does anyone else listen to the audiobook editions of these?

    I'm a big fan of James Marsters' narration. He really gets into telling the stories from first person as harry, he totally sold me on the series, and it's made my commute to and from work fantastic for several months.

    I've listened to the audio version of almost all of them (two only had a print version when I was going through the series). Marsters does indeed do an excellent job.

    Cantide on
  • Super NamicchiSuper Namicchi Orange County, CARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I'm ressurecting this thread to ask a question about Changes!
    So Harry is in the church and Butters is shot by the assassin with the pistol, Butters lives, and Harry interrogates him about who hired him. He produces a picture of Susan, and the assassin agrees that that's who hired him. THEN THEY NEVER MENTION IT AGAIN. Unless I missed it. What the fuck? Susan tried to have Harry killed? why?
    it was the eebs fucking with him

    Super Namicchi on
  • badpoetbadpoet Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Well, I guess we get a bit more of what happened after the end of Changes tomorrow when Side Jobs comes out. Got mine preordered for the Nook. Hopefully it will at least answer a few of the questions we have.

    badpoet on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I ordered mine through Amazon, so it won't be in until Thursday or Friday. Really looking forward to Aftermath, and finally catching up on some of the other short stories.

    I also finally read Welcome to the Jungle, which was okay. Not particularly amazing, but enjoyable and fit the images I had in my head for most of the characters.

    Something else occurred to me as I re-read the series;
    The job of Winter Knight is "until death", so we've all assumed that Harry dying might free him from that job. Though I imagine having the job for a few days at most might lead to an even more angry/spiteful/manipulative Mab than we've seen before.

    There is something else that has been reinforced repeatedly throughout the series that is "until death"; things seen with The Sight. I wonder if dying (but coming back from the dead, as we all assume Harry will, given that there are more books yet to come and many issues unresolved) would clear those visions (good and bad alike) away? It could be argued both ways; coming back from the dead would be more of a brief blip compared to eternal rest, but as we've seen much of the supernatural community is big on technicalities and literal translations. What if dying (even for a few minutes or hours) is enough to clear out those permanently etched visions?

    I'm also curious if Butcher will use this 'reset' to reign in Harry, whose power level has increased dramatically over the dozen novels? Perhaps just temporarily, as obviously there are some pretty nasty hanging threads to be dealt with (I assume Nicodemus is still around despite the assumed damage done to him in Turn Coat, as an example), but there'd been pretty hefty 'power creep' over the books and if he wanted to tone that down a little now would be the perfect time.

    Edit: I've also been reading through the Dresden Files RPG books, and there's a lot of info in them about the characters that clarifies or even gives a bit of behind the scenes info. I'm not entirely sure how much of it is conjecture/non-canon info from the creators, but since Butcher had input, I suspect that at least some of it is official and might give us a glimpse into upcoming issues. I found Your Story to be fairly dry, but do enjoy the "in character" stuff from Billy, Bob and Harry. Our World seems to have more actual world info, and the opening story about Harry teaching young Wardens was interesting. I like that the game doesn't bother trying to stat out many of the things that show up in the books. Characters like Mab, Dragons and whatnot are just listed as plot devices rather than actual opponents for even top tier characters, which I like.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Got my dad started into Dresden. Sadly while he was reading it on a trip he lost my copy of Fool Moon. So had to find another, funny thing. Since books 1-3 come in a box set(get your friends who haven't read it yet!) finding a copy of Fool Moon took forever at the local book places. Finally got it though.

    So I guess picking up Odd Jobs is required now for the aftermath from Changes?

    Mazzyx on
    u7stthr17eud.png
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So I guess picking up Odd Jobs is required now for the aftermath from Changes?

    Heh.

    The compilation includes the short story "Aftermath", which takes place 45 minutes after Changes and is told from Karrin Murphy's point of view.

    There's a small spoiler on the wiki page that I've left off. I don't expect many actual answers, but hopefully there'll be some good tidbits to tide us over until March.

    Edit: there's also now a brief plot outline for Ghost Story on wikipedia. Not much in terms of spoilers, but I'm double tagging this one lest someone be on a media blackout.
    Are you sure?
    Harry Dresden forgot his own golden rule: magic - it can get a guy killed. Which didn't help when he clashed with unknown assailants intent on his murder. And though Harry's continued existence is now in some doubt, this doesn't mean Chicago's resident professional wizard can rest in peace. Trapped in a realm that is not quite here, yet not quite anywhere else, Harry learns that three of his loved ones are in mortal danger. Only by discovering his assailant's identity can he save his friends, bring criminal elements to justice, and move on before he becomes trapped in his own unending nightmare. It would just be easier if he knew which friends were at risk. And had a (working) set of balls. And had access to his magic. Instead, he is unable to interact with the physical world - invisible and inaudible to all but the most specialized of magical talents. He's also far from the only silent presence roaming Chicago's alleys. Heck, he put some of them there himself. Only now, they're looking for payback.

    It was suggested that as a Spirit, Bob might play an important role in that book, but at the end of Changes he's absolutely wiped out, so his power/participation might be at a reduced level, or he might need some time before he can help. The obvious person to turn to would be Mortimer Linquist, the ectomancer that Harry has helped/relied on/pushed around in the past. It'd be fun to see how Mortimer might treat Harry now that the balance of power has shifted so dramatically.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    I ordered mine through Amazon, so it won't be in until Thursday or Friday. Really looking forward to Aftermath, and finally catching up on some of the other short stories.

    I also finally read Welcome to the Jungle, which was okay. Not particularly amazing, but enjoyable and fit the images I had in my head for most of the characters.

    Something else occurred to me as I re-read the series;
    The job of Winter Knight is "until death", so we've all assumed that Harry dying might free him from that job. Though I imagine having the job for a few days at most might lead to an even more angry/spiteful/manipulative Mab than we've seen before.

    There is something else that has been reinforced repeatedly throughout the series that is "until death"; things seen with The Sight. I wonder if dying (but coming back from the dead, as we all assume Harry will, given that there are more books yet to come and many issues unresolved) would clear those visions (good and bad alike) away? It could be argued both ways; coming back from the dead would be more of a brief blip compared to eternal rest, but as we've seen much of the supernatural community is big on technicalities and literal translations. What if dying (even for a few minutes or hours) is enough to clear out those permanently etched visions?

    I'm also curious if Butcher will use this 'reset' to reign in Harry, whose power level has increased dramatically over the dozen novels? Perhaps just temporarily, as obviously there are some pretty nasty hanging threads to be dealt with (I assume Nicodemus is still around despite the assumed damage done to him in Turn Coat, as an example), but there'd been pretty hefty 'power creep' over the books and if he wanted to tone that down a little now would be the perfect time.

    Edit: I've also been reading through the Dresden Files RPG books, and there's a lot of info in them about the characters that clarifies or even gives a bit of behind the scenes info. I'm not entirely sure how much of it is conjecture/non-canon info from the creators, but since Butcher had input, I suspect that at least some of it is official and might give us a glimpse into upcoming issues. I found Your Story to be fairly dry, but do enjoy the "in character" stuff from Billy, Bob and Harry. Our World seems to have more actual world info, and the opening story about Harry teaching young Wardens was interesting. I like that the game doesn't bother trying to stat out many of the things that show up in the books. Characters like Mab, Dragons and whatnot are just listed as plot devices rather than actual opponents for even top tier characters, which I like.


    The power creep is relative, though. Yeah, Harry has gotten a lot stronger since book 1, but in the world at large he still isn't a big gun. He says this all the time. It makes the fact that HE'S the one dealing with all this shit a little silly, but he's the star of the book. There are tons of wizards stronger than he is. Plenty more as strong I'd imagine. He only really got a bump up the ladder with the Winter Knight thing, and looked how that turned out. He does still have access to some heavy guns, something he also said, but even if he picks them up (again) he still won't be a walking god or anything. Unless he happens to be gunning for you...

    Xeddicus on
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    My wife picked up these books after lurking on this thread; I'm onto 'Death Masks' now and it's fun, flashy and rarely dull.

    Looking forward to the rest.

    Kneel on
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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Ghost story sounds either really fucking stupid, or really cool

    Can't decide
    I bet his daughter is going to be in it

    Arch on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The power creep is relative, though. Yeah, Harry has gotten a lot stronger since book 1, but in the world at large he still isn't a big gun. He says this all the time. It makes the fact that HE'S the one dealing with all this shit a little silly, but he's the star of the book. There are tons of wizards stronger than he is. Plenty more as strong I'd imagine. He only really got a bump up the ladder with the Winter Knight thing, and looked how that turned out. He does still have access to some heavy guns, something he also said, but even if he picks them up (again) he still won't be a walking god or anything. Unless he happens to be gunning for you...

    Mmmm, I disagree. While there are copioius things and people who outclass Harry (any member of the Senior Council, Dragons, Summer/Winter Queens and their peers of the Fae, the non-shock troop Denarians, etc) and even lesser beings with significant resistance to magic who are a pain in the ass, it's also been noted several times that Dresden has survived more combat (in both events and intensity) than Wizards a hundred years older than he.

    Sure, he often survives by sheer luck, forethought/planning and wits as often or more so than by raw magical might, but I daresay that even pre-Changes he becomes vastly more dangerous than he was in Storm Front. He also notes regularly that many such beings (especially the longer lived races) are often slow to change, whereas he's been progressing at a pretty steady pace over the past decade.

    Of note, I'm certainly not complaining about the power creep. I rather like the fact that Dresden is written as someone slowly improving at what he does, makes logical steps to improve his game, shore up his weaknesses and enhances what he's best at. I just figured that with the various events in Changes
    Losing his car, his apartment, Mouse, his Duster, his life, and whatever else I might've forgotten
    , that if Butcher wanted to tone him back down for a reason, now would be a good time to do so.

    Think of it like Comics; it's easier to write a credible threat for someone like Spider-Man or even Batman (whom, despite being powerful, skilled and intelligent, they are just people when all is said and done) than Superman (whose power level necessitates more deus ex machinas and global level threats to present him with a significant challenge).
    The emphasis on "until death" with the Knight gig is reasoned by many to be a convenient loophole, but from that approach, if one wanted to bring him back down to a lower level (if just temporarily), his time recovering from dying seems like a solid fit for it.
    Arch wrote: »
    Ghost story sounds either really fucking stupid, or really cool

    Can't decide
    I bet his daughter is going to be in it

    I have faith that it'll be good.
    Considering that we know time works differently in the Nevernever (I'll admit that I've always been kind of disappointed with this term, but it has grown on me over the past year) this could also be a chance to 'flash forward' enough time to not leave the daughter as little girl for too long. Not that this is a route I even want them to take, but it wouldn't surprise me either. Harry, Karen and the other mortal characters are all young enough that a five year jump wouldn't make too big a difference, but it could let a whole new set of intrigues develop; Molly coming into her own as a full fledged Wizard, Thomas's personality either recovering from his torture or embracing the Hunger fully (doubt the latter), etc.

    I do hope we see more Mouse though. Love that little fuzzball.

    Edit the third: and to be clear, I like Harry as a badass shitkicker. I hope he gets even better at it. I just think that now could be a natural bit of a bump in that path to further badassery, and as we've seen with his hand, Butcher isn't afraid to give him a handicap that he recovers from over the course of multiple books.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    RE: Creep in this series

    One of my favorite parts of this book series actually is the fact that he got much better at certain things when he realized there were a couple of situations he wouldn't have made it out of it it hadn't been for dumb luck

    Specifically
    Him modifying his shield, and learning more powerful divination spells re: his model were very nice, and the fact that I think he learned how to shroud as well

    A nice point for me was when Harry was
    Actually at the execution of a black magic user now that he is a warden; I got the impression that guy was at least as powerful as the dude from Storm Front, or either it was implied that he deals with black wizards like that on a more regular basis. My point is that Changes dresden would wallop some of the problems he faced in the early books

    Arch on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Well, there's also the fact no matter how strong he gets (to a point) plain old guns can kill him. So even if he gets twice or three times or X times more badass, until he becomes bullet proof and immune to all the things that kill normal people it's not hard to come up with a threat to him. And as you said, a lot of the time he wins by luck. I don't really want to see him barely able to raise a shield and start taking down demons with riddles and conveniently placed tanks.

    Changes;
    He lost Mouse? I need to re-read it it seems.

    Xeddicus on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Changes;
    He lost Mouse? I need to re-read it it seems.
    He sent him to live with and protect his daughter.

    Edit: and of course, the big thing that I'm very interested in hearing about from Changes;
    How the supernatural world reacts to the utter obliteration of the entire Red Court. Adding that notch to his belt oughta be something of a bargaining chip/threat to loom over people. "I wiped out an entire fucking vampire court. Do you think I have any trouble ________?"

    I suspect that we'll start hearing more about the Jade Court eventually. A) because it'd give the series another enemy to consider, and B) because they're known to operate in Asia, which is where the new Senior Council Member Cristos has been working for ages, and I suspect he and his past will be important, especially if, as has been pondered in the books, he has connections to the Black Council.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Well, there's also the fact no matter how strong he gets (to a point) plain old guns can kill him.
    I think that, had his trench coat not had its protective magic overloaded, it would have shielded him from most of the impact.

    Captain Carrot on
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Well, there's also the fact no matter how strong he gets (to a point) plain old guns can kill him.
    I think that, had his trench coat not had its protective magic overloaded, it would have shielded him from most of the impact.
    I dunno about that. When he got shot with the Sniper Rifle before he only survived because it hit right where the coat was double layered. If it was aimed at his heart and he didn't make it miss slightly like last time it should punch right through.

    Z0re on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Well, there's also the fact no matter how strong he gets (to a point) plain old guns can kill him.
    I think that, had his trench coat not had its protective magic overloaded, it would have shielded him from most of the impact.
    I dunno about that. When he got shot with the Sniper Rifle before he only survived because it hit right where the coat was double layered. If it was aimed at his heart and he didn't make it miss slightly like last time it should punch right through.

    When was that? I don't recall that specific time.

    However, keep in mind that the coat itself seems to 'upgrade' over time, at least in the manner in which Butcher describes it (though I vaguely recall some indication that the longer he has it, the more time Dresden spends on improving its protective qualities). In the early to mid days Harry seems unsure it would be bullet proof. By the latter books, the protective level is described to be on par with tank armour (though this admittedly might be hyperbole on Harry's part or a sign that Jim felt like describing it in a new or more exciting way).

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Forar wrote: »
    Z0re wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Well, there's also the fact no matter how strong he gets (to a point) plain old guns can kill him.
    I think that, had his trench coat not had its protective magic overloaded, it would have shielded him from most of the impact.
    I dunno about that. When he got shot with the Sniper Rifle before he only survived because it hit right where the coat was double layered. If it was aimed at his heart and he didn't make it miss slightly like last time it should punch right through.

    When was that? I don't recall that specific time.

    However, keep in mind that the coat itself seems to 'upgrade' over time, at least in the manner in which Butcher describes it (though I vaguely recall some indication that the longer he has it, the more time Dresden spends on improving its protective qualities). In the early to mid days Harry seems unsure it would be bullet proof. By the latter books, the protective level is described to be on par with tank armour (though this admittedly might be hyperbole on Harry's part or a sign that Jim felt like describing it in a new or more exciting way).

    I'm pretty sure it was in Turn Coat, though I have to check. But yeah, it was a fifty caliber explicitly and nearly punched through.

    Z0re on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Regardless of how bullet proof the coat is: Harry isn't. Hit his head and no more Harry. And as we know, he doesn't always have it.

    Xeddicus on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Regardless of how bullet proof the coat is: Harry isn't.

    Well... yet.

    I give it 3 more books. 4 tops. :P

    Reading through the wiki pages on Dresdenverse characters has been interesting. There are a number that I've suspected were returning that Butcher has outright stated we'll be seeing again.
    Nicodemus isn't dead, Ferrofax will be back, etc.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I've said it once and I'll say it again.
    Justin DuMorne = Cowl. Several times Dresden mentions how Cowl's ability and power feels 'familiar' to him in someway he doesn't understand. DuMorne is Cowl and Dresden is going to kill him in the final book for whatever reason.

    Also, Murphy will get the holy katana and Marcone is going to get the broad sword. If Michael comes back full time, them Sanya is going to get whacked and then Marcone will take his saber (Marcone does favor, lighter, faster blades.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I've said it once and I'll say it again.
    Justin DuMorne = Cowl. Several times Dresden mentions how Cowl's ability and power feels 'familiar' to him in someway he doesn't understand. DuMorne is Cowl and Dresden is going to kill him in the final book for whatever reason.

    Also, Murphy will get the holy katana and Marcone is going to get the broad sword. If Michael comes back full time, them Sanya is going to get whacked and then Marcone will take his saber (Marcone does favor, lighter, faster blades.
    Justin is dead for realz. I'm calling Petrovitch as Cowl, he trained DuMorne and is far more likely than someone the author has explicitly stated over and over is D-E-D dead. Plus Petrovitch opens up so many possible plot points and storylines, if the White Council found out it would nearly cause a civil war. Not to mention Petrovitch fits better than Justin in other, smaller ways. Like Cowl's lack of knowledge about Harry.

    Z0re on
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I've said it once and I'll say it again.
    Justin DuMorne = Cowl. Several times Dresden mentions how Cowl's ability and power feels 'familiar' to him in someway he doesn't understand. DuMorne is Cowl and Dresden is going to kill him in the final book for whatever reason.

    Also, Murphy will get the holy katana and Marcone is going to get the broad sword. If Michael comes back full time, them Sanya is going to get whacked and then Marcone will take his saber (Marcone does favor, lighter, faster blades.
    Michael's not coming back. Among other things, he walks with a cane now, and he's enjoying getting to spend time with his family now that he's retired from being a knight. Speculating on Marcone is interesting, I'd be surprised if he took up a blade.

    Captain Carrot on
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I've said it once and I'll say it again.
    Justin DuMorne = Cowl. Several times Dresden mentions how Cowl's ability and power feels 'familiar' to him in someway he doesn't understand. DuMorne is Cowl and Dresden is going to kill him in the final book for whatever reason.

    Also, Murphy will get the holy katana and Marcone is going to get the broad sword. If Michael comes back full time, them Sanya is going to get whacked and then Marcone will take his saber (Marcone does favor, lighter, faster blades.
    Justin is dead for realz. I'm calling Petrovitch as Cowl, he trained DuMorne and is far more likely than someone the author has explicitly stated over and over is D-E-D dead. Plus Petrovitch opens up so many possible plot points and storylines, if the White Council found out it would nearly cause a civil war. Not to mention Petrovitch fits better than Justin in other, smaller ways. Like Cowl's lack of knowledge about Harry.
    Petrovich as Cowl would be lame. We have no frame of reference for the character other than he trained DuMorne and Morgan. How has Cowl demonstrated any lack of knowledge about Harry that can't be explaind by DuMorne/Cowl just playing him.

    The biggest two questions in my mind, that have not been answered:

    1) When Harry visits Arctis Tor to save Molly, he finds the remains of a ton of gorilla-demons (Cowl's favored summons in White Night) along with a ton of Hellfire. We still haven't seen proof of the connection between Cowl's Black Council and Hellfire (read: Nicodemus).

    2) What the hell is going on with Mab? She has been contained for several books now without any real evidence of what is robbing her voice / ability to directly interfere with the supernatural world.

    I think the answer is that Cowl is DuMorne - who was a disciple of Kemmler. Kemmler was rumored to have numerous ties amongst the fae and DuMorne used that training to bind up Mab, though I don't know why or how. Other than to stop Mab from being Mab and ruining his end-game.

    I think we'll find in the end, that DuMorne / Cowl is working with Nicodemus in the long play to set up Dresden to become the person that sets off whatever Armageddon they have been working for. Manipulating the events to get rid of the Red Court is just a major part of that end game.

    I guess my point is, it's going to be a lot more satisfying of a pay off to find out that DuMorne is Cowl and set up the scene where Elaine gets some payback then using some vaguely referenced character that only has an impact on character's that are dead.

    Also, I refuse to believe that Harry's annihilation of the Red Court is a good thing. If anything this series has taught us, Harry is continually the mechanism that sets up other bad guys to do bad things (see: Nicodemus, Marcone, and prety much every other bad guy). I don't think that Harry won a damn thing in 'Changes'.

    Oh, and Marcone. Every book Butcher takes a half page, sometimes a full page, to describe Marcone's soul as tiger-filled, and barren, but filled with a strong sense of justice. Then we have the entire book dedicated to Marcone trying to steal the Shroud of Turin to heal the girl whom he accidentally got hurt. If anything, Butcher wants us to love Marcone because he just tries to hard to make him evil, but he just can't do it. What has Marcone done but help out the characters in essentially every book. He definitely is going to get Michael's sword.

    The problem with these books is I burn through one in like, a day and a half, and don't remember a lot of the little things. I re-read the entire series every time a new book comes out (since Proven Guilty) and my favorite ones are still when the Fae get involved. Next time I am going to keep a notebook with questions as I read.

    I have to say, I found this series by random walking around the science fiction section of my old hometown library and actually read Dead Beat first. It was a great find.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    In response to MegaMan001:
    I like your conjecture on the swords. If I'm not mistaken, Karin indicates at the finale of Changes that she'll lose her job. It might not be immediately, but I think having "Fist of God" as a fallback plan seems like a pretty decent way to help people. She wanted into the magical scene, and this is the big break where she could go from "Cop" to "Supernatural Cop Extraordinaire".

    Marcone has always been noted as having an affinity for knives. While Karin's martial arts training might make the Katana a natural fit for her, it would also seem fitting for the lighter sword to go into his hands.

    Also, while the swords are important, it's the nail and faith behind them that gives them power. Thus, I could even see a future plotline where one of the swords was actually destroyed, and Uriel or another agent of "Heaven" was sought out to help reforge it, LOTR style.

    I don't think Michael will ever take up the sword again. If nothing else it's been hinted at that Michael and his family are under divine protection even now, but that this might fade if he became a Knight once more. Retirement from the job seems to be permanent, though I'm not willing to rule out him potentially doing it one last time at the climax of the series, where the whole world (or all of existence) was on the line.

    I'm unsure on Justin being dead. While it's dealt with constantly that he's gone, it's one of the deaths that happened "off camera", and his being constantly referred to almost feels forced. I know that the books are written to be standalone, but he's probably the character we've read the most about but haven't ever seen in the series. And it's also worth noting that he was heavily interested in Necromancy, so it's not like there aren't plausible 'outs' for how to bring him back without breaking the series or storyline.

    As for your questions MegaMan001:

    1) Nicodemus was (according to Harry's insight) actually surprised that this had happened. The Black Council definitely seems to have a Denarian (or Denarians) on their side, but he himself seems unaware of the connection. Personally I think it's a toss up between Tessa and Thorned Namshiel as to who was involved in the attack, leaning towards the latter.

    2) On my re-read of the series, her 'voice problem' appears to be a physical manifestation of the raw anger she feels over recent events, specifically the attack on Arctis Tor (said Hellfire situation), and/or Harry using Summer Fire on the Winter Well (or whatever it was, the thing that caused all of Winter to become incredibly angry and immediately return home). That said, Lea was definitely acting weird when she was found in the fountain, and the rumours of Mab going a little wonky were popping up long before Harry started redecorating her home, so an influence, madness, attack or disease is possible.

    I completely agree on wiping out the Red Court not necessarily being a good thing. Aside from the turmoil it caused in South America's mortal population, someone or something will likely move to fill that power vacuum, and it won't necessarily be something that can be dealt with in such a straightforward fashion. Hopefully there are benefits at least in the short term, but with as many books left to go as Butcher has indicated, yeah, this'll all probably get worse before it gets better.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I just wanna know when Changes will finally be out in paperback :(

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Forar: To Avoid Long Quote Trees.
    I forgot about the conversation with Nicodemus about the Denarian Hellfire at Arctis Tor. It'd be cool if it was Thorned Namshiel, but not so much Tessa - I think Tessa is pretty lame overall as a threat, Nicodemus has much more style and I like the imagery of Namshiel (reminds me of the Regenerators in RE4).

    But, for Mab, the last time I remember her speaking prior to losing her voice and having Grimalkin speak for her in 'Small Favor', is when she speaks for Lea in White Knight. I think that had something to do with Mab imprisoning Lea to solidify her power as Lea got a little out of line after she got the anathema / dagger thing at Bianca's party. Further suggesting that a lot more happened at that party than we realize (like, Cowl and Kumori were there, how messed up is that?)

    I had assumed that Mab losing her voice was an example of Mab going back on a previous bargain. When Harry makes a joke about it in the snowstorm during 'Small Favor' (her losing her voice and suggesting that Mab was going back on her deal with him by hurting him - in which she explains it was for spite, not coercion) she goes a little postal.

    My hope is that Mab losing her voice is actually an example of Cowl/DuMorne getting one up on her.

    I guess, when you get right down to it, I want the series to reveal that Cowl/DuMorne has been orchestrating everything from when he first adopted Harry.

    Lash points out to Harry that due to his birthday / whatever, he has the ability to take power over Outworlders (He Who Walks Behind). I think DuMorne knew this when he adopted Harry, he trained him, he set up the fake-duel and fake-death to instill a sense of persecution and put a massive chip on Harry's shoulder. When you look at Harry's history, the outcome of that duel - DuMorne's death - really sets up Harry's entire personality. He becomes a loner, shirks authority because of how the White Council treated him, and takes a strong stance against anyone trying to intimidate him. That, combined with his ability over outworlders, gives DuMorne a unique way into controlling Harry's actions.

    I bet I'm really wrong and it's just some new monster, but I think it'd be more interesting.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    God, I love discussing this series so much. There are so many details and things that come up and are open to interpretation.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • badpoetbadpoet Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I finished Aftermath this morning. Overall, it was a fine read, interesting to see Karin's perspective, but somewhat annoying because I think Murphy is a good side character but as a main focus is lacking.

    Questions/spoilers for those that have read it below
    So, we're to understand that Murphy is going to be fired and that she views the sword as a weakness? Her stubbornness over the last few novels has gone beyond annoying to completely stupid.

    Butcher is obviously putting Marcone in a position to redeem himself, likely taking up a sword (I agree with the above conjecture on that).

    Gard says Odin would love to meet Murphy, which would be an interesting meeting, but I really don't think she'll ever go mercenary.

    Harry's body isn't found. Sure, it could be in the lake. And, given the title of the next book, he's dead. But, I have a feeling someone has it, whether it is Black Council, Kemmler's disciples, Mab, Odin, Thomas (he could have come by and pulled his body out), or Ebeneezer, it's obvious someone has it and that will likely have to do with Harry's upcoming resurrection.

    Overally, there were no real questions answered, it was a novella that fit the title, simply dealing with the Aftermath of his death. It's good to get that stuff out the the way for the next book, wherein Bob will show Harry ghost strip clubs :).

    And, while I think Justin is alive, I have a hard time thinking he's Cowl. He's probably the Black Council head moving the pieces whom we haven't met yet.

    badpoet on
  • TheScrupleTheScruple The Oldest of BridgesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Picked up the audiobook version from Audible. Looking forward to James Marsters' dulcet tones on my commute home.

    TheScruple on
    All prairie dogs just want to be heroes
  • RakeethRakeeth Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    I just wanna know when Changes will finally be out in paperback :(

    Release date of the new Dresden book is usually around April so paperback of Changes will probably be out around March 2011.

    Rakeeth on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Rakeeth wrote: »
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    I just wanna know when Changes will finally be out in paperback :(

    Release date of the new Dresden book is usually around April so paperback of Changes will probably be out around March 2011.

    According to Amazon, Ghost Story (the next book) is due out in hardcover on April 5th (it was in late March before, seems it might've been pushed back a week or so). Changes is due out in paperback form on March 1st.

    ... so, what Rakeeth said.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    everyone keeps asking what's up with mab, but it's pretty obvious. it's global warming! /flee
    just in case
    seriously though, there are a few things that will be interesting to see resolved or further expounded. Black Court, the island, other "gods" that we haven't run into, who will end up with the swords, etc. etc.

    I watched the 4/10 Q&A and didn't hear the "harry is dead" official statement. I heard the comment about wanting to call the book "Dead" but that was it. Is there a link to something someone can post that actually has a quote or audio of JB confirming he is dead?

    Pailryder on
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Pailryder wrote: »
    everyone keeps asking what's up with mab, but it's pretty obvious. it's global warming! /flee
    just in case
    seriously though, there are a few things that will be interesting to see resolved or further expounded. Black Court, the island, other "gods" that we haven't run into, who will end up with the swords, etc. etc.

    I watched the 4/10 Q&A and didn't hear the "harry is dead" official statement. I heard the comment about wanting to call the book "Dead" but that was it. Is there a link to something someone can post that actually has a quote or audio of JB confirming he is dead?
    This isn't from the author, but the description of the book on Amazon that comes from the publisher blatantly states that Harry is dead.
    When we last left the mighty wizard detective Harry Dresden, he wasn't doing well. In fact, he had been murdered by an unknown assassin.

    But being dead doesn't stop him when his friends are in danger. Except now he has nobody, and no magic to help him. And there are also several dark spirits roaming the Chicago shadows who owe Harry some payback of their own.

    To save his friends-and his own soul-Harry will have to pull off the ultimate trick without any magic...

    I finished Side Jobs a couple hours after I got the book and while enjoyable I was a little disappointed especially with Aftermath.

    khain on
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