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Tales of the Old [Westerns]

1246

Posts

  • DoodmannDoodmann regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I think it's hilarious how often Django is referenced in movies and pop culture and how terrible and awesome it is.

    Doodmann on
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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited June 2010
    Antimatter wrote: »
    Fun Fact: Patrick Mcgoohan, star and creator of The Prisoner, wrote an episode of the series that was a Western, as opposed to the typical Secret Agent/Thriller themed episode. His reason for this? The United Kingdom didn't have any Westerns on television at the time, and he wished to change that. The episode was entitled Living in Harmony, and is currently hosted on AMC.com

    It's a great episode, and really shows how suited the Western genre is to allegory and symbolism.

    Jacobkosh on
  • WishpigWishpig regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Man, I just don't understand how people love Once Upon a Time in the West. I mean, I loved the Dollar's trilogy and the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is my #1 favorite film of all time. But I can't stand Once Upon a Time.

    On a side note, The Good, The Bad, and the Wierd is a great tribute movie. Just plain goofy fun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bVJEncQfN4&feature=related

    Wishpig on
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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited June 2010
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Man, I just don't understand how people love Once Upon a Time in the West. I mean, I loved the Dollar's trilogy and the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is my #1 favorite film of all time. But I can't stand Once Upon a Time.

    Why don't you expand on your feelings a bit? Can you think of specific things that bother you about the movie?

    Jacobkosh on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Kalkino wrote: »
    I saw a Thai Western called Tears of a Black Tiger a few years back. It was surprisingly good fun.

    Hrm, I'm going to need to hunt that down. I'm also trying to find a copy of Sholay which was the first of the curry westerns.

    It did the film festival circuit about 7-10 years ago, iirc. So surely it should be available

    Kalkino on
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  • DoodmannDoodmann regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Man, I just don't understand how people love Once Upon a Time in the West. I mean, I loved the Dollar's trilogy and the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is my #1 favorite film of all time. But I can't stand Once Upon a Time.

    Why don't you expand on your feelings a bit? Can you think of specific things that bother you about the movie?

    The reason I like it is it takes all the good parts of the good the bad and the ugly but doesn't suffer from the pacing problems that the other does.

    Doodmann on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Man, I just don't understand how people love Once Upon a Time in the West. I mean, I loved the Dollar's trilogy and the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is my #1 favorite film of all time. But I can't stand Once Upon a Time.

    On a side note, The Good, The Bad, and the Wierd is a great tribute movie. Just plain goofy fun.

    Claudia Cardinale

    Okay, only partially because of Claudia Cardinale. For me, it's because Once Upon a Time in the West strikes me as Leone's most thoughtful western. He takes bits of all of the things that influanced him in the western before and mixes it together and lets it simmer like a stew. The Wikipedia page has a great list of the references.

    And I mention William S. Hart in the OP and I happened to find his last movie, Tumbleweeds on Youtube. It is in public domain, so enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyGJ0W2j40

    Thomamelas on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    And I added a link for Hell's Hinges to the OP.

    Thomamelas on
  • DoodmannDoodmann regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She is just under Natalie Wood, who is my number 1, for bangable actresses who died before I was born or knew what bangable meant.

    shit Claudia Cardinale is still alive. My point is how fucking hot is Natalie Wood? Am I right?

    Doodmann on
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2010
    I watched and liked The Ox-Bow Incident, even though it got awfully didactic in parts.

    Elki on
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2010
    The Ballad of Cable Hogue is on my hold-shelf at the library, so I guess that's what I'll be watching next, but I have no recollection of putting it on hold or ever hearing about it.

    Elki on
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  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I managed to pick up Jeremiah Johnson, The Quick and the Dead (with Sam Elliott, not Sharon Stone,) Hidalgo, and Once Upon a Time in The West at Walmart on my way home from work. I was surprised to see Once Upon a Time because I had never heard of it before starting on the westerns a couple of months ago.

    I jus tthru watching it, and... I'm not sure I'm a big fan of Leone's work. I can see it's merits, but I enjoy other movies more. If Stagecoach was tightly written, it seems like Leone likes to linger on things far too long, and it was an hour before the movie seemed to come together. I swear, I looked at the timer on the blu-ray player and it was an hour and about 5 minutes, and I still had no idea what the story was about.

    valhalla130 on
  • DoodmannDoodmann regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    His movies are really about building tension to a climax that may only be 5 minutes before the film ends. That's why people talk about the shootout at the end of The Good The Bad and The Ugly still, not just because it was so well shot but you've invested 3 hours in trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and who is going to end up with the money.

    Doodmann on
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  • Captain TragedyCaptain Tragedy regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Has anybody seen The Shooting? I caught it on a movie channel a couple of weeks ago. It was directed by Monte Hellman and stars Warren Oates and Jack Nicholson (who also produced). I guess it falls under the "Acid Western" heading.

    It's worth checking out if like minimalist, atmospheric westerns.

    Captain Tragedy on
  • XagarathXagarath regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I've heard well of Monte Hellman. Might have to look it up.

    Also, I've now decided that The Wild Bunch is probably the best Western, having finally seen it.

    Xagarath on
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Thankyou for this thread. Having just played Red Dead Redemption I am really in the mood for watching some westerns but didn't really know where to start, and I thought to myself "I wonder if there's a westerns thread on the forums" and here it is. So nice one.

    Brovid Hasselsmof on
  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'm starting Hidalgo. I know it's not exactly a western, because of it's setting, but it still applies to me.

    valhalla130 on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Have we talked about The Proposition in here?

    Because that was a pretty great flick

    Olivaw on
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  • legionofonelegionofone __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2010
    I really enjoyed and I am surprised that I didn't see Silverado on that list. Classic western, with people meeting up along the way to end up in the titular town and straighten out shit. I liked the historical references as well (Danny Glover's character talking about working the Chicago stockyards) and John Cleese as a small town sheriff.

    Broken Trail was another excellent Western that not too many people have heard about since it was a TV movie, but I believe it was based on a true story.

    Pale Rider is another good piece of Eastwood work as well.

    legionofone on
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  • BobCescaBobCesca regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    On Thom's suggestion I watched Shane the other week. It was quite fun, and enough to convince me to continue 'Operation See If Cesca Likes Westerns After All'. Fort Apache is the next film on my list, but I need to finish season 3 of Deadwood first.

    BobCesca on
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2010
    I'm starting Hidalgo. I know it's not exactly a western, because of it's setting, but it still applies to me.

    It's not much of a film.

    Elki on
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Have we talked about The Proposition in here?

    Because that was a pretty great flick

    I confuse that with Appaloosa, and I've seen neither. All I know is that one of them is supposed to be awful.

    Elki on
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  • BobCescaBobCesca regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Is The Proposition the one written by Nick Cave?

    I have the soundtrack and I think I can watch it free through LoveFilm (some advertising thing for RDR). I might do that today.

    BobCesca on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Elki wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Have we talked about The Proposition in here?

    Because that was a pretty great flick

    I confuse that with Appaloosa, and I've seen neither. All I know is that one of them is supposed to be awful.

    appaloosa I think is supposed to be notsogood. the proposition is worth the time.

    Variable on
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  • tofutofu regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Elki wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Have we talked about The Proposition in here?

    Because that was a pretty great flick

    I confuse that with Appaloosa, and I've seen neither. All I know is that one of them is supposed to be awful.

    Appaloosa is terrible. The Proposition is pretty much an extension of Unforgiven as written by Nick Cave. If you're looking for a good modern western throwback Open Range is the best.
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Gosh, can't say I've seen enough Westerns, even though I like them. The remake of 3:10 to Yuma is great.
    The remake of 3:10 was shitty. The movie isn't even internally consistent.
    For instance, the main villain murders at least 3 people on the way to the train stop. But when he gets there he is all like "i like to do things easy like, we will totally let you live". Man fucking what? We just watched you murder your way through the countryside?!?! And then the ruthless second in command gets there and is all like "hey I will give you money if you rescue the boss!" and then proceeds to cold bloodedly murder people who he made a deal with to spare for getting out of the way... and no one leaves his posse.. they all still think they're going to get paid. The entire fucking movie was like this! The original (which you can get streaming on Netflix) is much better
    I'm glad someone besides myself recognizes how bad the 3:10 to Yuma remake is, even if you are wrong about the man with no name trilogy.

    tofu on
  • UrianUrian regular __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2010
    3:10 to Yuma remake, The Proposition, and Unforgiven are the best westerns of all time in my book. Goumind, it sounds like you missed the point Yuma was trying to make.
    It's about a father trying to live up to the man his son sees him as, to set an example for not only his son but for himself. He desperately needs to be a hero so he can be remembered. Ben Wade's arc is a testament to how much a human being can change in a short amount of time. He was so absolutely astounded by Bale's honesty and courage that he realized he has so much more in common with him than with his sadistic, evil crew. That's not to say Wade is redeemed by this at all, he's done bad things and is a bad man, but in those ending moments he was inspired by Christian Bale and some small part of himself probably even wanted to become like him, although he knows he can't and never will. Ben Foster shoots bale in the back like a dog, and Wade's changed sense of self and companionship to Bale becomes hatred of his recently abandoned way of life. Wade kills every single one of his posse; this is a philosophical firecracker, full of ideas not only in terms of Wade himself, but of all kinds of things. Justice, honor, hate, you name it. It's a movie of ideas, psychologies, and philosophies. Even if the technical aspects of the plot don't work for you, which they did for me, it's a movie about the message. If you weren't on board with it, then I guess it isn't for you, but I don't see any valid explanation for it being bad.

    edit: Oh and Jesse James would go on there somewhere, I'll have to make a top 5-10. Right now I'm thinking Proposition #1, Unforgiven #2, Jesse James #3, 3:10 to Yuma #4, Good bad ugly #5.

    Urian on
  • tofutofu regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I remember the Wall Street Journal summed up how I felt about the movie:
    But the film gets to be cluttered with picturesque characters and their posturings -- a plethora of poses, scowls and leers. And one can debate the ambiguities of the ending -- which substantially resembles the original -- but the febrile and semicoherent action climax that precedes it leaves logic in the dust. Instead of taking on seven gunmen, as in the original, the movie's newly minted man of honor must now shoot his way through what amounts to a whole town.

    That's not to enshrine the 1957 version, which was directed by Delmer Daves, as a masterpiece that contemporary Hollywood vandals have defaced. And clearly there's no going back to a time when a small, taut feature was enough to bring an audience to a theater. In our own time, though, when movies must compete with many media and producers want their features to be big events, it's worth thinking about what made the original noteworthy. The performances, to be sure -- Glenn Ford and Van Heflin were superb -- and the classic theme of a single man of probity carrying the day. But the strengths of the first "3:10 To Yuma" were enhanced by its proportionality -- an intimate story told in 92 minutes. The story is no bigger in the new version, which goes on for 117 minutes. And it's certainly not better.

    tofu on
  • UrianUrian regular __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2010
    All I get from that snippet is him comparing it directly to the original and not on it's own merits. And beyond that, he's not judging it for why it made the decisions it did, only that he would have made it differently. Did he just not like the action at the end? There was a pretty clear reason he fights the entire town, and it's important from a character point of view. Like I said, it's for the message, that this guy doesn't care how many people stand in his way, he's going to do what he set out to do.

    Urian on
  • tofutofu regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    He talks about the original movie, yes, but still clearly evaluates the remake on its own merits.

    It's not like he said "this movie is bad because it's not like the original."

    tofu on
  • Page-Page- regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    What I remember is that Crowe was this terrible, horrible man being brought to justice, yet he doesn't ever do anything terrible or horrible and the ending was so predictable, telegraphed, and stupid that it ruined most of what came before.There was no ambiguity, I never felt like it was even possible that Crowe would go back to his gang and continue to commit crimes. Ben Foster was a superior bad guy and stole every scene he was in. If HE had been the one captured it might have been interesting.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Fuck everyone, I liked Appaloosa

    Olivaw on
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  • GoumindongGoumindong regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Urian wrote: »
    Goumind, it sounds like you missed the point Yuma was trying to make.
    No, i got it, it was just terribly done and doesn't make any sense. The first makes the point 10 times better in 40 less minutes without a terrible rash of inconsistencies that you have to reconcile for anything to make sense.

    In the original: The two main characters are both immensely likable and you will find yourself not knowing who to route for. You know its going to come down to a final confrontation between the gang and you're pretty sure the good guy will win(its a western after all), but aside from that who knows?
    Page- wrote:
    Crowe was this terrible, horrible man being brought to justice, yet he doesn't ever do anything terrible or horrible
    He murders how many people before he gets caught? And then how many people on the way to the train?
    tofu wrote:
    even if you are wrong about the man with no name trilogy
    No way. You just can't beat "for a few dollars more". Not only does it have all the tense, long drawn out confrontations and rituals, but it also has characters which are not two dimensional(unlike the other two) and easily the best villain of the 3. Oh and Klaus Kinski.

    Goumindong on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I really enjoyed and I am surprised that I didn't see Silverado on that list. Classic western, with people meeting up along the way to end up in the titular town and straighten out shit. I liked the historical references as well (Danny Glover's character talking about working the Chicago stockyards) and John Cleese as a small town sheriff.

    Broken Trail was another excellent Western that not too many people have heard about since it was a TV movie, but I believe it was based on a true story.

    Pale Rider is another good piece of Eastwood work as well.

    Silverado doesn't make the cut because it didn't really leave a mark on genre. The movies on the list are either influential or the truly great. Silverado isn't bad, it's not amazing and you really aren't hearing people talk about it's influence 25 years later. The original 3:10 to Yuma is good, but it's influence was pretty limited so it doesn't make the cut. The Searchers isn't great, but it was insanely influential so it does.

    Thomamelas on
  • tofutofu regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Goumindong wrote: »
    tofu wrote:
    even if you are wrong about the man with no name trilogy
    No way. You just can't beat "for a few dollars more". Not only does it have all the tense, long drawn out confrontations and rituals, but it also has characters which are not two dimensional(unlike the other two) and easily the best villain of the 3. Oh and Klaus Kinski.

    Well, I agree with you that A Few Dollars More is the best of the trilogy, but I would hardly call The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly rambling and A Fistful of Dollars entirely derivative.

    tofu on
  • GoumindongGoumindong regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    tofu wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    tofu wrote:
    even if you are wrong about the man with no name trilogy
    No way. You just can't beat "for a few dollars more". Not only does it have all the tense, long drawn out confrontations and rituals, but it also has characters which are not two dimensional(unlike the other two) and easily the best villain of the 3. Oh and Klaus Kinski.

    Well, I agree with you that A Few Dollars More is the best of the trilogy, but I would hardly call The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly rambling and A Fistful of Dollars entirely derivative.
    Yojimbo!

    And THTBTU has a lot of sections and scenes that just seem entirely unnessary.

    Goumindong on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Calling a remake "derivative" is like calling an orange "orange"

    Olivaw on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Calling a remake "derivative" is like calling an orange "orange"

    it's either too close to the original, strays too far from the material, or the changes made were not significant enough and there was no point in changing them at all.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • XagarathXagarath regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    A Few Dollars more is a bit messy and incoherent for my tastes.
    TGTBATU Has a much more substantial, sweeping vision.

    Yojimbo, however, is actually better than all of them.

    Xagarath on
  • tofutofu regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    What do you think is messy and incoherent about it?

    tofu on
  • XagarathXagarath regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    tofu wrote: »
    What do you think is messy and incoherent about it?

    The constant double-crossing plot is rather messily done, and doesn't have a lot of clarity or obvious motivation.
    It also isn't as well-paced as its sequal.
    Don't get me wrong, it's still a fantastic film, I just find TGTBATU rather superior.

    Xagarath on
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