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How much time should married couples spend apart?
ALT1138
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Sorry for the wall o' text, but it's par for the course here.
So I'm an introvert. I don't really have any friends and I'm OK with that. Socializing online and with my wife and sometimes with my family is basically enough for me. My wife is a total extrovert. There have been periods when she's been OK with not socializing too much, but these days, she goes out with her friends almost every night. It's really somewhat rare that we spend a night together just the two of us, and when we do, I feel like I have to be trying super hard to entertain her so that she doesn't decide to do something with her friends instead.
I can't say for sure whether it's because she simply isn't interested in me, or she honestly thinks a married woman should be spending most of her time without her husband. Yes, I've talked about this with her, and she insists I'm the abnormal one for not having any friends, and she's the normal one. Now, I know it's not "normal" to not have any friends, but I don't think it's nearly as rare as she thinks it is. Judging by these forums, you can't go a page without seeing another "I have no friends" thread, and in each of those threads, like 10 more people chime in to say they're the same way, so I know I'm not alone in that regard. That said, I know having friends is much more common than not having them. However, my feeling is that a married couple should spend time apart with their respective friends about an evening a week, maybe two evenings. Not like 5 evenings. I think married couples should have mutual friends they mostly hang out with together, and that it should be OK to spend many if not most nights at home with just the two of us.
You may be wondering whether she's cheating on me. I don't think so, but anything is possible. She generally answers the phone when I call her when she's out, she's never out all night, etc. As I said, anything is possible, but my feeling is that she's just out with her friends like she says she is. Her friends are all female and mostly single with no or next to no love lives, so all they have is each other. If that's the life she wants to lead, maybe she should be single with no or next to no love life too. She doesn't seem to accept that there are responsibilities and compromises attached to being married. She's pretty much a spoiled rich girl. She doesn't cook, barely cleans, doesn't contribute financially, and expects to be entertained every minute of her free time. I have to ask myself what I'm getting out of the relationship. If it were emotionally easy, I'd ditch her in a second, but we're stuck on each other and whenever we split up we always wind up back together anyway.
Thoughts?
So I'm an introvert. I don't really have any friends and I'm OK with that. Socializing online and with my wife and sometimes with my family is basically enough for me. My wife is a total extrovert. There have been periods when she's been OK with not socializing too much, but these days, she goes out with her friends almost every night. It's really somewhat rare that we spend a night together just the two of us, and when we do, I feel like I have to be trying super hard to entertain her so that she doesn't decide to do something with her friends instead.
I can't say for sure whether it's because she simply isn't interested in me, or she honestly thinks a married woman should be spending most of her time without her husband. Yes, I've talked about this with her, and she insists I'm the abnormal one for not having any friends, and she's the normal one. Now, I know it's not "normal" to not have any friends, but I don't think it's nearly as rare as she thinks it is. Judging by these forums, you can't go a page without seeing another "I have no friends" thread, and in each of those threads, like 10 more people chime in to say they're the same way, so I know I'm not alone in that regard. That said, I know having friends is much more common than not having them. However, my feeling is that a married couple should spend time apart with their respective friends about an evening a week, maybe two evenings. Not like 5 evenings. I think married couples should have mutual friends they mostly hang out with together, and that it should be OK to spend many if not most nights at home with just the two of us.
You may be wondering whether she's cheating on me. I don't think so, but anything is possible. She generally answers the phone when I call her when she's out, she's never out all night, etc. As I said, anything is possible, but my feeling is that she's just out with her friends like she says she is. Her friends are all female and mostly single with no or next to no love lives, so all they have is each other. If that's the life she wants to lead, maybe she should be single with no or next to no love life too. She doesn't seem to accept that there are responsibilities and compromises attached to being married. She's pretty much a spoiled rich girl. She doesn't cook, barely cleans, doesn't contribute financially, and expects to be entertained every minute of her free time. I have to ask myself what I'm getting out of the relationship. If it were emotionally easy, I'd ditch her in a second, but we're stuck on each other and whenever we split up we always wind up back together anyway.
Thoughts?
ALT1138 on
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I can't for the life of me figure out why she doesn't want to spend every waking second with you.
There is a huge difference between being introverted and being a shut-in, and frankly it sounds like you are very much close to that second category. Either make some compromises or prepare for the inevitable.
And for the record, there is no set amount of time couples need to spend together, just as long as their getting their needs met. However, it doesn't sound like her needs are being met when she's with you... so, yeah that is a huge red flag.
Just out of curiosity if you guys do spend an evening 'just the two of you' what exactly does that entail?
edit: after reading that last paragraph I cannot see for the life of me why you two are married. I get the feeling this relationship is in a lot more trouble than just "she spends too much time with her friends." You seem to really resent your wife. What's up with that? You complain about how she demands to be entertained all the time and then complain when she goes out with her friends and entertains her self? Have you ever asked to go out with her? If you guys spend time together is it always at home or do you go out together?
Shogun Streams Vidya
you married this person? In the month from that thread to this one you decided to, and did, marry that girl?
It seems like you are both causing problems
you do need to be more sociable, for the sake of both of you
You have all these ideas about her.
You need to get out of your shell and sacrifice for this woman.
3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
Sounds like not that girl but a different girl, whom he married in less than a month if this is true.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=14567670&postcount=2402
3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
What the hell man, how long have you guys been married?
you harbor resentments,
you want to break up with your wife,
you suspect cheating (even if you have logic that "disproves" this),
and you expect your wife to sit around the house and do nothing with you when she could be out with her friends?
Looking at the facts, Doctor Metalbourne can make a diagnosis:
Counseling.
From your attitude here, I'm not surprised she doesn't want to spend more time with you.
The answer isn't easy though; what matters is if you're both happy with how things are. If the answer is yes, then you've found how much time you two, as a married couple, should spend apart. Spending every waking moment isn't a good thing, mind you, as is the opposite.
I hate to sound mean, but why put yourself in such a self destructive relationship?
It doesn't even sound like you LIKE your wife. You shouldn't feel like you're "stuck" with the person you're married to. That's pretty fucked up, dude. If this is the same woman as the other thread, maybe you should have fixed the issues in that relationship first before jumping into marriage. OR, if this is a new woman, maybe you should have waited a BIIIIT ( A LOT ) longer than a month to marry this chick, enough to learn if you LIKE her or not. Marriage is kind of a big deal, dude.
Also, yes, going out 5 nights a week with her friends is excessive. If those friends were mutual, and you were tagging along it would be better, but even then. It doesn't sound like she wants to spend time with you, and it doesn't sound like you want to spend time with HER...you just sound lonely as fuck. Enough to marry a chick within a month that you resent.
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
As an aside, couples should share at least some friends. It's unusual if she doesn't even invite you out with her at least once or twice, I think at least.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
What do we do when we're alone together? Well, we go out to fancy dinners every night we're together, movies, concerts, museums, skiing in the winter, etc. I love going out with her but it's exhausting trying to keep her entertained, and exhausting on my wallet too. I make a good salary and I'm not saving any money because it all goes to dating her. But god forbid we ever stay at home and eat in and watch something I want to watch, or play video games or something. She'll always find something better to do, in that case.
Any resentment between me and my wife is not secret. She resents that I'm not social, and I resent that she's too social. I love her to death, and she loves me too, and we're really kind and loving to each other when we're together... but in trying to think logically, I imagine I'd be better off with an introvert and she with an extrovert. If we weren't together, I wouldn't have to feel like I want to keep her from doing what she likes. I would definitely prefer to make it work between the two of us though.
And yes, that other thread was about me too. My wife and I have been separated for many months now, and we still technically are, but we're trying to make it work now. She knows I was dating and vice versa. We're not doing that anymore. I didn't expect you super sleuths to remember that other thread and I was hoping to keep them separate. I could give you my entire life story but I was trying to stick to just the facts relevant to this particular issue.
I love how most of the "advice" in this forum is people being nasty, sarcastic, and passive-aggressive toward the OP's. I can't believe it's not against the rules to sneer at people when they post the innermost problems of their lives. I should know better than to come to a gaming forum for advice, but there are occasional scraps of wisdom so I always keep my fingers crossed. "Counseling" is about the only valid advice I've seen so far, and we may very well be doing that in the near future. She has expressed an interest, and has mentioned her graduate program has free relationship counseling, but she has not looked into it further or scheduled any appointments. I told her she should. Me being more social is good advice in general, I'm sure, but I'm 29 now (she's 26), and I don't know how easy it would be for me to change who I am. I'm not lonely, I just don't feel a need to hang out with other people. I have a genetic predisposition toward introversion. My aunt was just telling me about how my uncle, who has two great kids and a great wife, now, in his 50's, just made his first friend. I have a cousin who's way worse than I am - she doesn't even pick up the phone when her family calls. Her mother is pretty much cut off from the family, too, due to introversion.
I may not feel a need for friendship, but I do have a need for love. I don't expect my wife to have being my friend be her full-time job, but I would like to spend more than one or two nights a week with her, and I would like to feel like it's not MY full-time job to entertain her. Why doesn't she make any plans for us? Why is it always my job? Should your spouse really be the person you see least in your life?
What makes people think this is a troll? What do you get out of not taking my post at face value? What would I get out of making up stories like this? If anything, 80% of the responses have been trollish. I appreciate the level-headed ones, though. I can see how the last sentence of my OP might have sounded a little harsh, but I was just trying to be succinct. What I meant by "stuck on each other" was that we've split up several times during our 11 year relationship, but we can never learn to love anyone else, because we love each other too much. We both have had other relationships and broken other people's hearts over the fact that we are unable to get over each other. On paper, if we could get over each other, we might be better off, but I don't really want to get over her, because I love her. I think she feels the same way, but it seems she's not willing to put in any effort.
I shouldn't have said as much as I did in my OP... I should have probably kept it to the simple question in the title... all I wanted was a sense of how much time per week is normal or acceptable for a couple to spend without each other...
Nice.
3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
Oof. You two are very mismatched, and if you're openly resenting each other that's really really really not a good thing.
That's an excellent idea, and will hopefully improve the communication between you two and make it really obvious which issues the both of you need to work on separately, and as a couple.
OK, it's WE SHOULD. You're married, marriage counseling is a WE decision in which the both of you as a couple should agree to make the appointment together. It's not something you fob off on your already resentful significant other as something she has to do, because then it becomes yet another item for the both of you to resent and be angry at each other about.
I hate to break it to you, but that's sort of what counseling is about - not changing yourself drastically, but learning to compromise and work with your partner. If you're going into these theoretical counseling sessions with the attitude "I'm perfectly fine, she should just learn to deal with me" you're going to have a painful awakening. A more appropriate attitude for you would be "Yeah, I'm uncomfortable being social, but I love my wife enough that I'm willing to compromise and maybe hang out with her and her friends occasionally, and find some family/friends of my own."
Counseling is HARD. It's WORK, and it requires tons of effort.
If you're content with sitting at home doing nothing and spending time alone, don't expect your partner to give up her social life to mimic you. And why the hell should she be your social coordinator? Get off your ass and plan something for the two of you.
Remember that compromise thing? Yeah, if you want her to reciprocate, you have to put in equal effort.
Going to be honest here, it really doesn't sound like you want to be married.
And don't get pissy when you don't like what you hear. Honestly, the trouble in this situation seems like it's coming from you. If your wife is not a shut in, and you are, it's simply not going to work. Sounds to me like you're trying to suffocate her. I'd bet anything that if she had a husband who kept a somewhat normal social life, she wouldn't go out every night. Sounds also like she just doesn't want to be around you, and from your responses, I wouldn't want to be either.
EDIT: On a side not, who do we petition to eliminate "alt advice" in H/A? Message Thanatos directly or just put in the Issues forum?
Sometimes its okay for married couples to spend time apart. Vacations with friends, or just whole days of not seeing each other. Its your relationship and you two make your own rules. Just don't expect people on the outside of your relationship to actually understand what you two have decided works for yourselves.
I would think someone was crazy who wanted to be out that much, and it would bother me a lot, but then I wouldn't marry someone who wanted to be out that much. If things have changed and you aren't into each other anymore, you should look into either marriage counseling or divorce or both. From what you say it sounds like you guys are stuck in a cycle together that you can't break for no reason other than fear. It sounds like you don't even like each other all that much, and I think if you actually managed to break that cycle you guys could move on to be happy and fulfilled either with other people or alone.
If you really want someone who will stay at home most nights, I suggest re-separating with your ex-wife, because I doubt that's ever going to be her.
See this right here? You need either some major counselling, or a divorce. Married people should not resent each other. Before you come back and defend your words and how 'that's not what you really meant' I would think about this, because obviously you did mean it. You shouldn't resent your significant other, and if you do something is very, very wrong.
And neither are you. You want her to sit home and play video games with you and watch TV and stop going out but you won't go out with her and her friends because it doesn't entertain you. While at the same time complaining that when you're sitting home watching TV she gets bored and needs to be entertained. You're not willing to put in much effort outside of bitching about how she needs to change and how you're too old to change.
Seriously, it's becoming more and more clear why your wife wants to spend time out with her friends instead of home with you. From your posts here as well as the other posts you've made on the subject, it seems that you want a homebody who will be happy with sitting at home watching TV and watching you play video games 5 nights a week while popping out babies. If that's what you want a social, extrovert is the not going to be that.
Side note: Esh, I'm so on board with eliminating H&A alts as well.
1. You could probably use some individual counseling. I think it's that the way you say things manages to combine being assertive with being controlling, and the combination isn't pretty. Your resentful comments about your wife, your expectations for how women should act, and your generally low comments about women aren't particularly attractive.
I think you need to generally work on a new outlook on life because you currently appear to be a pretty negative and resentful person and I can understand how it would alter your perception of people (wife, women in general) and your evaluation of events (like hanging out with her friends).
2. This has been mentioned but there is a difference between introvert and shut-in. My father is incredibly introverted, but he still has a certain social life... just an introverted sort. Your isolation seems to be more of a problem than a personality trait, to be truthful. This is why I'm strongly recommending some counseling.
3. You probably shouldn't be with this girl. That's probably why you guys are separated. For every 5 couples I've seen that have major separations and the people get back together, I'd say 1 of those couples did it for the right reasons and managed to make it work, and the other 4 did it for all the wrong reasons. Judging by what you say, you really sound like you're in the '4 couples' group. Your reasoning for why you guys should be together is that you're "stuck" together, and have a decent time when you're together (which is rarely?). Meanwhile you resent her openly, she's falling away from you, and you have very opposite personalities. You guys just sound like you're afraid to break up with each other and face the world anew so you keep crawling back to what is 'comfortable', regardless of how crappy it is.
Now that might be the extreme negative side of the scale, but I'm just feeling out the vibe I get from your posts and with the evidence that we have while by no means is it a certainty, but it is not without foundation.
I agree with the posts that say you should attend couples counseling, as a couple, and I do also agree that you would benefit from individual counseling, just so that you can talk to someone in an environment where someone who's trained at this can present you with the facts of what you're saying without seeming so confrontational.
deal with it or get out of the marriage and set her free
Though, I'd love to know how you were in a relationship and eventually decided to get married to this woman without ever understanding this basic difference in your personalities.
When I was single I would get out a lot more because I would get lonely, but being around my fiance pretty much completely fills my social meter, like the OP describes with his wife. My fiance gets that, but still likes to go out and do things, and I'm all for him doing it whenever he wants (in his case, maybe twice a month). If he wants to throw a party at OUR house, though, I ask for a week's notice to psych myself up, and I participate as much as I'm comfortable, which is usually, but not always, the whole event. This is a reasonable compromise for the both of us.
Sounds like your wife is wayyyy more extroverted than my fiance, and you are more introverted than me. I can't say I think this is a great match for the two of you, for obvious reasons and through the use of my imagination. but you're already in it, so you need to figure out how to make it work (well, or, as others have said, you should look into ending it; but as others have said that, I won't promote it in my reply). I think you are going to have to compromise/sacrifice a LOT if you want to spend more time with your wife, and work on that resentment; she will most definitely not want to stay home with you as much as you'd like or SHE will be miserable. Don't think she's trying to leave you behind or cheat on you or whatever; try to understand that staying home with you as often as you want to would be as draining and uncomfortable to her as going out all the time seems to you.
Being outgoing can be trained with practice, to a degree; if you think of it as an act ("I am loving this! I love being around people! This is exciting and interesting to me!") it might be easier to pull off for a few hours, and then go home and sleep it off if it wears you out. Good luck.
The reason it's allowed is that there are many genuine OPs in need of H/A who, for one reason or another, are worried about friends and family picking up on a commonly used identity. The idea is not to discourage people from asking for advice when they need it, especially if a problem is serious enough to the poster that they feel the need to bother in the first place, because that's what this sub-forum is for.
Unless something has changed from once upon a time, the mods can easily tell who is making an alt to cause a problem and act accordingly. If you think that the OP is a troll, don't sit there and say "lol troll" all over the thread; some threads that sound downright retarded to you may actually be serious. Report the thread and let the mods take care of it.
There is no answer for this. It's entirely dependent on each couple.
exactly
and I think it says a lot about the OP that he thinks there is a set amount of time per week that's "acceptable" for all relationships
But your missing the other half of that puzzle...she thinks she does it all already as well. She has to explain why shes out alone all the time, she has to plan things around your need for being anti-social, she's probably got the same viewpoint here she ALREADY DOES IT ALL..and now its your turn!
... See the endless circle?
The history is important because from your initial postings it sounded like you want to pretend is an isolated or sigular issue - it isn't - this is all related. We are screaming counseling at you because you're having problems dating and you're having problems being married..the universal constant in all these is YOU. This is not to hang some kind of banner on you that says U SUK LOL, its because you're in the middle of an emotional train wreck and you've gotta get out of it! You guys are only hurting yourselves and each other and its so very unnecessary.
I'm not asking these things to attack you, I'm asking these things in earnest - Do these things appeal to you? Do you think of these and then think..."man..if only I could do that"?
There are three main issues here. The first here is that yes a lot of sarcasm in these posts because I'm sorry you problems aren't "special" they're just your problems. I have a joke post that says that all posts in H/A are the same. You either need to grow up, confront the problem, check to see if the thing is on, go to the doctor or angry sex. Yours is pretty clear what you need to do is confront the problem in an adult manner, from there there is a handful of specific advice, but everyone's problems are different.
The problem is that people (in this case you) don't want solutions, they want to be right lets be honest here, in your opinion the best case response from this thread would be "yes, you are right your wife doesn't spend enough time home would be" but this isn't SWYWTH (Say what you want to hear) this is H/A you need to deal with the fact that people tell you things you don't want to here, this is because actual practical advice is hard work. I'm not trying to be mean here, but if it was easy you would have done it already.
In regards to the complaint of "Why am I a troll" context is the most important thing you can provide. Checking previous threads does immensly help because it adds extra information that you forgot. When you have previous posts talking about recent ex girlfriends and then a wife does raise issues. Because that isn't usually, and I'm sorry people do make fake posts here.
In regards your actual problem, there is no particular amount of time you have to spend with her. Different people require different amount of time together. I have friends that are married and do Fly in Fly Out jobs at mines and they do fine in marriage as well.
But the issue here isn't the amount of time here. It seems like the only time you want to spend time with her is at home by the computer. How is that fair for her? It has been established that she likes to go out. Maybe she would like to go out with you? It seems that you need to open up a dialogue with your wife and say that you want to spend more time with her. But like I also said, you need to realise that you just can't make her change to you, you need to compromise together.
Satans..... hints.....
I'm sure there are other things going on, but it is not okay you are unsociable. It is not okay to be a shut in. It is not okay to expect the same for your wife and resent her for wanting more. Marriage is about compromise, and you are not compromising. Also compromising is not letting your wife go out. Compromising is going out with her and having fun.
Your post history suggests this is all made up anyways, so I guess it doesn't matter.
its not okay to force someone who does not want to be a shut in, to be a shut in, for the sake of a marriage. Incompatible people just shouldn't get married.
well, having lived a year of my life as one, I will have to disagree, but I guess that's another topic...
In any case, if the OP wants to save his marriage, it's not appropriate for him to continue that sort behavior - as you say it's so incompatibale something has to change or the relationship is doomed. It's reasonable to expect unsocial people to come out of their shell and become social, it's unreasonable and actually really selfish to expect the opposite.