Yeah, Lyoto and Rashad have pretty different styles when it comes to their ground game. Rashad will probably be a fair amount tougher to sweep. I mean look at how solid of a base he keeps in most situations on the ground, it is quite obvious that he was an excellent wrestler before jumping to MMA. I'm not saying that Rashad has much chance of winning, but he shouldn't be completely written off either. He's kind of a one trick pony though, so I can't imagine Shogun not working on TDD, it's just common sense even if he knows he could sub him from the bottom. Shogun's best bet is to keep the fight standing so I expect him to try to do that, if it goes to the ground I doubt he'll feel uncomfortable, it's just not the position with the most disparity of skill in his favor. I would be absolutely giddy if Shogun subs him with a leglock though, it's been a while since we've seen that side of him.
And I agree that a loss is a loss, but I do think there is often a lot of pressure on a fighter to fight even if he's injured.
MMA fighters are definitely improving rapidly, on large, but I don't know how likely it is that it'll ever be standard for an MMA fighter to be able to really compete in specialized sports. Grappling maybe, since a lot of top tier grapplers are in MMA already, but boxing especially is worlds away. You have to be a jack of all trades to excell at MMA, where boxing is a much more focused and specific set of skills. A few fighters will probably be able to jump between, but I don't see it being common. And that's fine, they're different sports.
Well most of the stances, footwork, shoulder rolls and defense in boxing wouldn't work in MMA either unless you removed, you know, takedowns, throws, knees, clinching and kicking. Obviously MMA strikers can learn a lot from boxers, but far from everything in Boxing would work in MMA.
A boxer with no MMA experience would get neutralized fairly quickly, even in a standup fight. See Bonjasky vs Mercer. You can have the fastest hands in the world but if you don't know what to do when that guy gets his foot in your face you're done
Metal JaredMulligan WizardRhode IslandRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I know this topic was a page or so ago but for me the most anticipated fight might be Carwin vs. Lesnar. Carwin is undefeated, they're both huge guys, they both have title belts and the fight is on 4th of July weekend. They're going to throw that into the hype machine really soon and I expect a frenzy in the MMA community.
I know this topic was a page or so ago but for me the most anticipated fight might be Carwin vs. Lesnar. Carwin is undefeated, they're both huge guys, they both have title belts and the fight is on 4th of July weekend. They're going to throw that into the hype machine really soon and I expect a frenzy in the MMA community.
Agreed. It's a big fight. I've already got a Facebook event for a cookout/UFC fight scheduled for it. Probably even light some fireworks.
I like Brock, I've always liked Brock since the pro-wrestling days. But he hasn't fought since UFC 100 and he had that debilitating illness. He's only had 5 fights in his career too. It'll be interesting to see what he does at the Carwin fight.
I like Brock, I've always liked Brock since the pro-wrestling days. But he hasn't fought since UFC 100 and he had that debilitating illness. He's only had 5 fights in his career too. It'll be interesting to see what he does at the Carwin fight.
I honestly don't care who wins. Though, I do think that Lesnar has a lot of hype around him that may be undeserved, this will be a good chance for him to prove himself. Carwin hasn't had a fight leave the first round and he's undefeated, which is also going to make it interesting.
But Lesnar has taken this sport seriously. He's trained hard and works hard at it. He lost to Mir in their first fight. He saw his mistake and he didn't make it again and came back and beat Mir in the second fight. There's no denying his dedication.
And Mir is a great competitor. New as Lesnar is, it's scary that he's as good as he is. A few more years and fights, and he could be one of the best.
The decisions are going up the same reason subs are going down, everyone is getting good. The average UFC fighter is atleast, what, a purple belt or equivalent grappler. The striking overall has gone up significantly as well. Its no longer wrestlers who learn to box, or boxers who learn to wrestle, its totally rounded mixed martial artists, who could fight professionally in either grappling or striking.
The first may be truer, the second is not and certainly doesn't flow from it. The fighters are better overall, but if you still took an average UFC fighter and put him in a boxing match he would get killed. And the guys who *wouldn't* get killed in a specialist competition like that are not generally considered to also be really crisp technical strikers at the same time (so they're not *that* well rounded).
Im not saying that they'd be the next RJJ or Mayweather, but they could transition without too much difficulty, and compete. Most top MMAists could easily enter a grappling tournament and do fairly decent. Not saying they are gonna gold at mundials, but definitely hold their own in a tournament.
I think people get caught up in what just happened in MMA in the same way they do in every sport. There have been fights in the past that easily exceeded the hype of something like Rashad/Rampage, people just forget about them. I mean my pick for most anticipated fight ever would be UFC 66, Ortiz/Liddell 2, which for a long time stood as the most bought non-boxing PPV in history and that was before the sport was anywhere near as popular as it is now.
There was genuine bad blood between Ortiz and Liddell and it'd be hard to find two guys that polarized the community more, as fans picked sides in a big way. You've got to remember that for a while people loved Tito Ortiz, that whole Huntington Beach Bad Boy schtick really worked.
The decisions are going up the same reason subs are going down, everyone is getting good. The average UFC fighter is atleast, what, a purple belt or equivalent grappler. The striking overall has gone up significantly as well. Its no longer wrestlers who learn to box, or boxers who learn to wrestle, its totally rounded mixed martial artists, who could fight professionally in either grappling or striking.
The first may be truer, the second is not and certainly doesn't flow from it. The fighters are better overall, but if you still took an average UFC fighter and put him in a boxing match he would get killed. And the guys who *wouldn't* get killed in a specialist competition like that are not generally considered to also be really crisp technical strikers at the same time (so they're not *that* well rounded).
They could box professionally, insomuch as professional means getting paid to do it. As in, Jose Canseco and Bob Sapp are professional MMA fighters.
Boxing is a different story, but I'm sure many of the Brazilians in the UFC ould do just fine in pro muay thai.
edit- and for that matter, K1.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
So you guys probably already discussed it, but how bad was that Tyron Woodley decision the other week? I feel like every event in the past couple months has had at least one horrendous decision. In the Woodley fight his opponent won all 3 rounds... yet somehow... Woodley won the decision. I believe one judge even scored all three rounds in his favor. It was painfully bad.
Someone was mentioning rubber guard earlier, and I just thought I'd say it's absolutely useful in MMA. Only a few people even bother trying to use it, namely Snuffleupagus and Hazelett, but it's extremely effective at nullifying any top game the other fighter might have. Especially, I would imagine, against someone that's not as well versed in BJJ.
One of the fights this past weekend I was hoping one of the fighters was going to pull rubber guard; he was on the bottom and had his leg up around his opponents shoulder and was fighting to not get punches to the face. I think it was Rogerio actually. As I remember it, he could have locked it in and taken himself out of danger.
Boxing is a different story, but I'm sure many of the Brazilians in the UFC ould do just fine in pro muay thai.
edit- and for that matter, K1.
This always depends on what qualifies as doing fine. I could see Aldo maybe making the final 8. I don't see him taking out a Buakaw or Petrosyan or Souwer. Silva's hampered by there not being any kind of middle weight classes in K-1, negating the size/reach advantages he has at 185 in MMA.
I think the transition to grappling-only would be easier for MMA fighters, considering the prevalence of high-level wrestling in today's UFC. I'd love to see GSP return to ADCC given how much his grappling has improved the last 5 years.
This is not counting the guys who came from striking/grappling-only worlds to MMA. Obviously Penn, Maia and a bunch of Gracies would do well in grappling-only, and Overeem, Cro Cop, and Kongo would be fine in K-1.
Someone was mentioning rubber guard earlier, and I just thought I'd say it's absolutely useful in MMA. Only a few people even bother trying to use it, namely Snuffleupagus and Hazelett, but it's extremely effective at nullifying any top game the other fighter might have. Especially, I would imagine, against someone that's not as well versed in BJJ.
One of the fights this past weekend I was hoping one of the fighters was going to pull rubber guard; he was on the bottom and had his leg up around his opponents shoulder and was fighting to not get punches to the face. I think it was Rogerio actually. As I remember it, he could have locked it in and taken himself out of danger.
I love rubber-guard. It works as a great defensive tool and there are plenty of submissions to work from there as well as escapes.
You don't think that mentioning Overeem as someone who could possibly make the transition to K-1 is stacking the deck a bit?
No, I'm excluding Overeem because he started in K-1 and moved to MMA. So he's not really comparable to an MMA guy, such as Aldo, transitioning to K-1. Overeem's been there before, Aldo hasn't.
Well most of the stances, footwork, shoulder rolls and defense in boxing wouldn't work in MMA either unless you removed, you know, takedowns, throws, knees, clinching and kicking. Obviously MMA strikers can learn a lot from boxers, but far from everything in Boxing would work in MMA.
A boxer with no MMA experience would get neutralized fairly quickly, even in a standup fight. See Bonjasky vs Mercer. You can have the fastest hands in the world but if you don't know what to do when that guy gets his foot in your face you're done
I'd really like to see more pro-boxers come into the UFC. Not as boxers though, but as other athletes come into the sport; guys willing to learn more. You get a pro-boxer who has say some highschool wrestling and a few years of BJJ under his belt, he could be a fearsome fighter. Fast, accurate, combination punching plus head movement would be great if the guy also had TD defense and a ground game.
Well most of the stances, footwork, shoulder rolls and defense in boxing wouldn't work in MMA either unless you removed, you know, takedowns, throws, knees, clinching and kicking. Obviously MMA strikers can learn a lot from boxers, but far from everything in Boxing would work in MMA.
A boxer with no MMA experience would get neutralized fairly quickly, even in a standup fight. See Bonjasky vs Mercer. You can have the fastest hands in the world but if you don't know what to do when that guy gets his foot in your face you're done
I'd really like to see more pro-boxers come into the UFC. Not as boxers though, but as other athletes come into the sport; guys willing to learn more. You get a pro-boxer who has say some highschool wrestling and a few years of BJJ under his belt, he could be a fearsome fighter. Fast, accurate, combination punching plus head movement would be great if the guy also had TD defense and a ground game.
The money disparity all but guarantees most boxers looking to transition are guys well past it boxing-wise, though. I'd love to see a detailed breakdown of where all the money goes from a UFC PPV.
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And I agree that a loss is a loss, but I do think there is often a lot of pressure on a fighter to fight even if he's injured.
MMA fighters are definitely improving rapidly, on large, but I don't know how likely it is that it'll ever be standard for an MMA fighter to be able to really compete in specialized sports. Grappling maybe, since a lot of top tier grapplers are in MMA already, but boxing especially is worlds away. You have to be a jack of all trades to excell at MMA, where boxing is a much more focused and specific set of skills. A few fighters will probably be able to jump between, but I don't see it being common. And that's fine, they're different sports.
Yeah, plodding forward, flat footed with zero head movement is typically not a winning style in the boxing world.
A boxer with no MMA experience would get neutralized fairly quickly, even in a standup fight. See Bonjasky vs Mercer. You can have the fastest hands in the world but if you don't know what to do when that guy gets his foot in your face you're done
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Agreed. It's a big fight. I've already got a Facebook event for a cookout/UFC fight scheduled for it. Probably even light some fireworks.
It's a shame really, we need more fighters like this guy that can finish fights.
carwin's baldspot amuses me
I honestly don't care who wins. Though, I do think that Lesnar has a lot of hype around him that may be undeserved, this will be a good chance for him to prove himself. Carwin hasn't had a fight leave the first round and he's undefeated, which is also going to make it interesting.
He still has years of this game under his belt, and lots to learn.
And Mir is a great competitor. New as Lesnar is, it's scary that he's as good as he is. A few more years and fights, and he could be one of the best.
Im not saying that they'd be the next RJJ or Mayweather, but they could transition without too much difficulty, and compete. Most top MMAists could easily enter a grappling tournament and do fairly decent. Not saying they are gonna gold at mundials, but definitely hold their own in a tournament.
There was genuine bad blood between Ortiz and Liddell and it'd be hard to find two guys that polarized the community more, as fans picked sides in a big way. You've got to remember that for a while people loved Tito Ortiz, that whole Huntington Beach Bad Boy schtick really worked.
They could box professionally, insomuch as professional means getting paid to do it. As in, Jose Canseco and Bob Sapp are professional MMA fighters.
edit- and for that matter, K1.
Never have I been more surprised to not see Jon Kopphenhaver's name.
One of the fights this past weekend I was hoping one of the fighters was going to pull rubber guard; he was on the bottom and had his leg up around his opponents shoulder and was fighting to not get punches to the face. I think it was Rogerio actually. As I remember it, he could have locked it in and taken himself out of danger.
This always depends on what qualifies as doing fine. I could see Aldo maybe making the final 8. I don't see him taking out a Buakaw or Petrosyan or Souwer. Silva's hampered by there not being any kind of middle weight classes in K-1, negating the size/reach advantages he has at 185 in MMA.
I think the transition to grappling-only would be easier for MMA fighters, considering the prevalence of high-level wrestling in today's UFC. I'd love to see GSP return to ADCC given how much his grappling has improved the last 5 years.
This is not counting the guys who came from striking/grappling-only worlds to MMA. Obviously Penn, Maia and a bunch of Gracies would do well in grappling-only, and Overeem, Cro Cop, and Kongo would be fine in K-1.
Haha. Good stuff. I was really hoping he'd bust out the Billie Jean at the end, though.
I love rubber-guard. It works as a great defensive tool and there are plenty of submissions to work from there as well as escapes.
No, I'm excluding Overeem because he started in K-1 and moved to MMA. So he's not really comparable to an MMA guy, such as Aldo, transitioning to K-1. Overeem's been there before, Aldo hasn't.
I'd really like to see more pro-boxers come into the UFC. Not as boxers though, but as other athletes come into the sport; guys willing to learn more. You get a pro-boxer who has say some highschool wrestling and a few years of BJJ under his belt, he could be a fearsome fighter. Fast, accurate, combination punching plus head movement would be great if the guy also had TD defense and a ground game.
10 years in a Moroccan jail, eesh.
Looks like robbing a bank doesn't PAY.
Amirite?
The money disparity all but guarantees most boxers looking to transition are guys well past it boxing-wise, though. I'd love to see a detailed breakdown of where all the money goes from a UFC PPV.
hah if he makes it out
i think they get newspapers in prisons
They have to put him up against Torres!