Uh, have to disagree strongly with not warning other friends. Dick move in my book. Just give them a heads up at least.
Yeah, I'd send out/call a few of the mutual friends you know he's going to contact, particularly the ones that might be a little "softer" and receptive to the program. Something very casual and friendly like what you sent to him about your concerns.
Already done. Called two mutual friends...one hadn't been contacted, the other had been contacted but even when I told him everything I'd found, he still said he was going to check it out for himself. Those are the only two that I can think of that he would call.
the other had been contacted but even when I told him everything I'd found, he still said he was going to check it out for himself.
Wow... I find it amazing that so many people would fall for this scam. I can understand why, say, elderly people who aren't thinking as quick as they used to would go for this. But it is a mystery why intelligent people with all their faculties would go so mad at the scent of money that no rational persuasion can affect them.
It's a lesson to us all ... if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
It's very much like a pyramid scheme, but it is not actually a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are not legal. No gray area, they are illegal. Amway has structured itself to be legal, and it is. It's just a terrible thing to get wrapped up in.
Is the product actually terrible/overpriced or is this only a quagmire if you're trying to buy your way to success as an Amway "entrepeneur" ?
They are marked up beyond what you could find elsewhere, but I don't get the concern over a friend potentially buying a little bit of product. I mean yeah, if they are pouring their life savings into largely useless vitamins, that is one thing. But buying $20 in Vitamin E that has been marked up a ton isn't likely to ruin anyone's life. It isn't like it is rat poison or the ground up bones of unicorns.
Getting involved in the MLM side of things is a different beast I suppose.
Sounds exactly like this Yor Health crap a good friend of mine got into and eventually lost all her close friends to due to trying to sell us over priced crappy supplements. She claims she's making a ton of money and is happy as a clam, but...eh, at what price? Business cults are a creepy thing. They more or less worship the founders, as if their footsteps will turn the earth below into gold.
Good job in knowing better and sorry about your friend. Best just to let that one do as they will, but warn others not to buy his crap.
Is the product actually terrible/overpriced or is this only a quagmire if you're trying to buy your way to success as an Amway "entrepeneur" ?
If you buy some of your friend's Amway out of pity it's not going to hurt you, and the product (whatever it happens to be) will have the basic utility of the same thing purchased in a normal store.
If you're buying this shit out of pity for your friend you're only making the problem worse by letting them continue believing that they can make money by harassing their friends and family.
If you buy some of your friend's Amway out of pity it's not going to hurt you, and the product (whatever it happens to be) will have the basic utility of the same thing purchased in a normal store.
Pity? The OP is unemployed and Bob has a good job. That would be very backwards.
If you're buying this shit out of pity for your friend you're only making the problem worse by letting them continue believing that they can make money by harassing their friends and family.
bingo
also they'll keep pestering you to buy more since you caved once
Pity buying is like pity sex... they'll keep wearing you down until you give in "one last time". Best not to start down that road.
GungHo on
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
So most/all of these scams prey on the middle class, right? People who have some good resources to sink into it, but want more than they currently have. They can't invest too much in something like a mutual fund because they're riddled with car/house/credit card debt.
I would've advised calling or emailing your friend instead of texting. Sounds like he's down the rabbit hole though. Calling is more personal (important in a situation like this to get across that you're not cock-blocking them from their dream, which people have pointed out is a way for the deluded to interpret the situation) and email lets you explain and link to hard sources well.
That's just my advice to anyone in the future who has this come up.
If he asks for a reason, all you really have to do is get a side-by-side comparison of prices from the local Wallie World and Quixtar crap, it's literally marked up 500% or something like that
Besides, if you give him any income at all, it will keep his hope in the business alive longer when he gets that check for $5.67, and as bad as it sounds, you want your friend to go out of business as soon as possible
By the way, I had a friend who did this thing and $5.67 is an extremely charitable guess
joshofalltrades on
0
ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I've had a friend or two succumb to these things. I generally laugh and explain to them why they are always terrible ideas and tell them no I will never ever buy that crap ever.
No idea if you have the kind of relationship with this friend that you can be that blunt.
This is the same thing at CutCo knives. Stay away and convince your friend it's not scam per say, but it IS a scam in practice.
Oh man, I got a good story that I only now remembered about CutCo knives. My dad was pressuring me to get a job a decade ago when I lived at home and I had an 'interview' at a place nearby. I got there, it was a weird basement that had pop music playing and lots of people filling out forms. They said there was an orientation starting soon so I could just hop in.
They didn't tell us what we were going to be selling for 30-40 minutes, they just kept referring to a great product we'd be offering. We had to buy a set first of course.
2 friends of mine, who had good jobs at Hewlett-Packard, as IT-Technicians, suddenly started talking about a golden business opportunity. They'd tell me we had to talk in person, and that they couldn't tell me exactly what it was, but both of them were really excited, and studying economics and finances.
Turns out, they had been dragged into that god damn Xango scam. They went to several conventions, seminars and what not, and really, these guys were always extremely positive and talking about how great life was thanks to Xango.
Eventually they quit their jobs, in order to dedicate more time to Xango. They quit their stable, good-paying jobs so they could sell $50 miracle juice bottles.
Of course, this lasted for over a year, whenever I talked to them they always talked really positively and with high expectations of what was coming. Eventually, we stopped talking much, because I never decided to join them with Xango, they were pretty much brainwashed that anyone that didn't view life as a "Xangorite", it was a person with no vision, no future expectations and such. So yeah, my friends started looking down on me.
2 years later, they still haven't done anything worthwhile with Xango, one of them got a job at HP again but at Mexico City, which is really far away and not too a great place to live. The other guy's working for some telemarketing company now.
Bottom line is, don't let this interfere with your friend's real job.
Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but it contains some of the only useful information I could find on this topic. Anyway, I have a similar problem. My dad, a very successful, hardworking and intelligent hospital administrator/high-ranking Navy officer has been sucked in the Vicalus (sp?) "business opportunity"...along with the majority of my family and my dad's professional friends. I myself am the black sheep of the family as I am the 25 yr old, dirt poor "starving artist" who will obviously never amount to anything. My dad was thrilled to tell me all about how I could not only make a killing doing little more than signing up some friends, but get a brand new BMW as well to replace my not so reliable vehicle. My dad is honest to a fault and a straight shooter, and business-wise everything he touches turns to gold, however my BS detector went off nonetheless and my first thought was "this is a pyramid scheme, you stupid fuck!"
My dad proceeded to explain to me how this was NOT a pyramid scheme, how this
truly was a golden opportunity, and then he invited me to a "challenge meeting". Figuring I could trust his advice at this point, as he has never steered me wrong, I attended. What transpired at this meeting was horrifying. Doctors, businessmen, and friends were all in attendance, all of whom I personally know and respect(ed). The videos and speeches sounded shady enough, but then they all wanted to chat with me. They, including my dad, circled me and began to explain to me the business model, but no matter how I phrased my clarifying questions, they couldnt explain EXACTLY how it works. Later I researched Vicalus and didnt like what I EVENTUALLY found. Its a scam, straightup. Now, my dad wants to buy me in and won't no for an answer. I can't convince him that this is a scam and that I don't want to drag MY friends into this. He's too smart for this but there's no telling him that. Any advice or info about this shady company and what I should do would be appreciated.
Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but it contains some of the only useful information I could find on this topic. Anyway, I have a similar problem. My dad, a very successful, hardworking and intelligent hospital administrator/high-ranking Navy officer has been sucked in the Vicalus (sp?) "business opportunity"...along with the majority of my family and my dad's professional friends. I myself am the black sheep of the family as I am the 25 yr old, dirt poor "starving artist" who will obviously never amount to anything. My dad was thrilled to tell me all about how I could not only make a killing doing little more than signing up some friends, but get a brand new BMW as well to replace my not so reliable vehicle. My dad is honest to a fault and a straight shooter, and business-wise everything he touches turns to gold, however my BS detector went off nonetheless and my first thought was "this is a pyramid scheme, you stupid fuck!"
My dad proceeded to explain to me how this was NOT a pyramid scheme, how this
truly was a golden opportunity, and then he invited me to a "challenge meeting". Figuring I could trust his advice at this point, as he has never steered me wrong, I attended. What transpired at this meeting was horrifying. Doctors, businessmen, and friends were all in attendance, all of whom I personally know and respect(ed). The videos and speeches sounded shady enough, but then they all wanted to chat with me. They, including my dad, circled me and began to explain to me the business model, but no matter how I phrased my clarifying questions, they couldnt explain EXACTLY how it works. Later I researched Vicalus and didnt like what I EVENTUALLY found. Its a scam, straightup. Now, my dad wants to buy me in and won't no for an answer. I can't convince him that this is a scam and that I don't want to drag MY friends into this. He's too smart for this but there's no telling him that. Any advice or info about this shady company and what I should do would be appreciated.
update: its actually called "ViSalus" (body by Vi), and i'm sorry for the double post. dont know why that happened, but you can blame the need to split into 2 posts on my ps3
Well, you're absolutely right - it's a scam. You're not supposed to necro posts, so ceres is probably going to close this, but I might make a D&D post and PM you the link to it since this can be such a damaging (Financially & medically) scheme to get sucked into. And yes, even really smart doctors & lawyers can fall for the same crap.
My advice in the interim is to not be confrontational about it with your dad. Tell him that you are skeptical of the company, and explain why. He probably is not going to come around right away - but the best bet for making him realize, given a couple nights sleep, that this is a big risk not worth taking is use very delicate phrasing.
@SpaceButler, you may want to create a new thread for your issue. The mods tend to dislike necro posted threads for new problems, even if they're related to the OP.
My advice: Send your dad the information you've found, politely decline his offer to bring you in and then stop answering his calls.
If he continues talking about this, stop talking to him.
Considering that the first suggested search when typing "Vicalus" is "Scam", it shouldn't be too hard to find additional information.
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
Yeah, you should definitely make your own thread, but feel free to do that. I'm going to close this one; just use the new thread button.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Posts
Yeah, I'd send out/call a few of the mutual friends you know he's going to contact, particularly the ones that might be a little "softer" and receptive to the program. Something very casual and friendly like what you sent to him about your concerns.
Wow... I find it amazing that so many people would fall for this scam. I can understand why, say, elderly people who aren't thinking as quick as they used to would go for this. But it is a mystery why intelligent people with all their faculties would go so mad at the scent of money that no rational persuasion can affect them.
It's a lesson to us all ... if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!
They are marked up beyond what you could find elsewhere, but I don't get the concern over a friend potentially buying a little bit of product. I mean yeah, if they are pouring their life savings into largely useless vitamins, that is one thing. But buying $20 in Vitamin E that has been marked up a ton isn't likely to ruin anyone's life. It isn't like it is rat poison or the ground up bones of unicorns.
Getting involved in the MLM side of things is a different beast I suppose.
Good job in knowing better and sorry about your friend. Best just to let that one do as they will, but warn others not to buy his crap.
If you buy some of your friend's Amway out of pity it's not going to hurt you, and the product (whatever it happens to be) will have the basic utility of the same thing purchased in a normal store.
Just don't get wrapped up in selling the shit.
Pity? The OP is unemployed and Bob has a good job. That would be very backwards.
bingo
also they'll keep pestering you to buy more since you caved once
I would've advised calling or emailing your friend instead of texting. Sounds like he's down the rabbit hole though. Calling is more personal (important in a situation like this to get across that you're not cock-blocking them from their dream, which people have pointed out is a way for the deluded to interpret the situation) and email lets you explain and link to hard sources well.
That's just my advice to anyone in the future who has this come up.
If he asks for a reason, all you really have to do is get a side-by-side comparison of prices from the local Wallie World and Quixtar crap, it's literally marked up 500% or something like that
Besides, if you give him any income at all, it will keep his hope in the business alive longer when he gets that check for $5.67, and as bad as it sounds, you want your friend to go out of business as soon as possible
By the way, I had a friend who did this thing and $5.67 is an extremely charitable guess
No idea if you have the kind of relationship with this friend that you can be that blunt.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
Oh man, I got a good story that I only now remembered about CutCo knives. My dad was pressuring me to get a job a decade ago when I lived at home and I had an 'interview' at a place nearby. I got there, it was a weird basement that had pop music playing and lots of people filling out forms. They said there was an orientation starting soon so I could just hop in.
They didn't tell us what we were going to be selling for 30-40 minutes, they just kept referring to a great product we'd be offering. We had to buy a set first of course.
God, what a scam.
Turns out, they had been dragged into that god damn Xango scam. They went to several conventions, seminars and what not, and really, these guys were always extremely positive and talking about how great life was thanks to Xango.
Eventually they quit their jobs, in order to dedicate more time to Xango. They quit their stable, good-paying jobs so they could sell $50 miracle juice bottles.
Of course, this lasted for over a year, whenever I talked to them they always talked really positively and with high expectations of what was coming. Eventually, we stopped talking much, because I never decided to join them with Xango, they were pretty much brainwashed that anyone that didn't view life as a "Xangorite", it was a person with no vision, no future expectations and such. So yeah, my friends started looking down on me.
2 years later, they still haven't done anything worthwhile with Xango, one of them got a job at HP again but at Mexico City, which is really far away and not too a great place to live. The other guy's working for some telemarketing company now.
Bottom line is, don't let this interfere with your friend's real job.
My dad proceeded to explain to me how this was NOT a pyramid scheme, how this
My dad proceeded to explain to me how this was NOT a pyramid scheme, how this
Well, you're absolutely right - it's a scam. You're not supposed to necro posts, so ceres is probably going to close this, but I might make a D&D post and PM you the link to it since this can be such a damaging (Financially & medically) scheme to get sucked into. And yes, even really smart doctors & lawyers can fall for the same crap.
My advice in the interim is to not be confrontational about it with your dad. Tell him that you are skeptical of the company, and explain why. He probably is not going to come around right away - but the best bet for making him realize, given a couple nights sleep, that this is a big risk not worth taking is use very delicate phrasing.
My advice: Send your dad the information you've found, politely decline his offer to bring you in and then stop answering his calls.
If he continues talking about this, stop talking to him.
Considering that the first suggested search when typing "Vicalus" is "Scam", it shouldn't be too hard to find additional information.