Bioware goes episodic?

Whiniest Man On Earth

games.slashdot wrote:

The word from the site Computer and Videogames is that BioWare will be offering episodic content for all of its upcoming games. This includes Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Jade Empire: Special Edition. CEO Ray Muzyka, in an interview with CVG, talks about this and many other elements of the coming year in PC gaming.

From the article: "The videogame market is very cyclical and PC and console gaming have an uneasy alliance - as new console systems are released, early adopter fans move over to check those games out and as PC systems reach and surpass console systems at the end of a console life cycle, a good number of those early adopter fans move back over to PC gaming. Console gaming is huge of course, especially when you add in hardware sales, but it's hard to quantify the enormous impact of online gaming on the overall PC market - retail sales just don't capture the revenues from the increasingly successful PC MMOs as well as digital distribution and episodic gaming (which are both gaining strength year after year)."

The bigger quote is this:

Ray Muzyka wrote:

"...we have big plans afoot at BioWare for post-release and episodic content for upcoming cool BioWare games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Jade Empire: Special Edition and other upcoming BioWare titles, both on console and PC."

Will Bioware be the developer that proves this works well? I think their NWN modules could've done much better had they been priced better, and I don't expect the new content to be any cheaper.

Discuss.

Kiwistrike

ew.

I cant remember the last good game bioware made, anyway.

Kewop Decam

Kiwistrike wrote:

ew.

I cant remember the last good game bioware made, anyway.

really...

bruin

Kiwistrike wrote:

ew.

I cant remember the last good game bioware made, anyway.

The last two games they made were KOTOR and Jade Empire. KOTOR was excellent and JE was good.

liquidlogan

Kiwistrike wrote:

ew.

I cant remember the last good game bioware made, anyway.

Kotor? Jade Empire? Neverwinter Nights? Everything they have ever fucking touched?

Kiwistrike

Jade empire blew.

And as for KotOR, well, bioware needs to realize that dungeons and dragons "gameplay" hasnt worked, ever.

Seriously come up with something that isnt absolutely asinine in every way, and maybe plays to the strengths of a machine which allows interactivity. Instead of, you know, desperately trying to copy a pen-and-paper scheme.

Deusfaux

guys, he's being a fucking troll and set up flamebait in the first reply to the thread.... he's already caught 3 of you

just ignore him, call him a fucking tool, whatever, and move on. there's no point debating him

Kiwistrike

Im actually absolutely serious but I didnt mean to derail the thread, sorry.

I guess it will interesting what episodic content has to offer for the RPG genre...

Deusfaux

you're entitled to your opinion.. but you have to realise there's nothing good that can come of dumping all over the game the thread is about first reply in.

Turkey

As long as they release a Diamond pack just like with NWN, I'll be purchasing a lot of Bioware games in a few years.

Undead Scottsman

I thought the Sam and Max games were proof of the episodic concept.

Kiwistrike

I think it works well for sam and max because they are low profile games. I mean, you are pleased when a sam and max episode comes out and you enjoy it for a few hours, but can you imagine if they did halo 3, or something of that caliber, like that, a few hours every couple of months?

People would riot.

So basically, yeah I think the sam and max games show that episodic content works well for exploiting niche markets, but not necessarily anything more.

Renzo

Kiwistrike wrote:

I think it works well for sam and max because they are low profile games. I mean, you are pleased when a sam and max episode comes out and you enjoy it for a few hours, but can you imagine if they did halo 3, or something of that caliber, like that, a few hours every couple of months?

People would riot.

So basically, yeah I think the sam and max games show that episodic content works well for exploiting niche markets, but not necessarily anything more.

Or maybe it just fits certain types of games, niche or not. Phoenix Wright would work well as an episodic game. Adventure games in general, really.

Which I guess is a niche now anyway, but still.

Drez

I think all of Kiwistrike's comments in this thread can just be written off as/attributed to bad taste.

Gorilla Salad

I want Mass Effect really, really bad.

Kiwistrike

Huh?

I basically just said that episodic content is good, in very specific cases. Basically, its here and it has its uses, and thats good, but its not going to be some sort of "new standard," nor should it be.

IShallRiseAgain

uggggggghhhh, I hate the idea of episodes, but too many good games are coming out in episodes, so i guess I have to for at least some of them.

Cokomon

I always thought that the way episodic games should work is to have the actual game be full or near full length, ie the Movie, with episodic content following afterward that are only a few hours, ie the accompanying TV show. Of course, this is what they are doing with Half-Life 2, and it seems to be working. For something like an RPG, episodic content would be a nice thing to have after beating the final boss. Now can use your powerful characters in new, more difficult adventures.

Besides, didn't Bioware already say something about downloadable planets for Mass Effect?

Gorilla Salad

IShallRiseAgain wrote:

uggggggghhhh, I hate the idea of episodes, but too many good games are coming out in episodes, so i guess I have to for at least some of them.

well, you could either have it all in 2009, or half a third of it in 2007, and the rest in 08.

Roshin

I'm all for episodic content if it means I wont have to wait 3-4 years for Bio to complete another game, so yeah, bring it on. TBH, I was more intrigued to see that they were working on a MMOG. I had no idea about that. :oops:

...is beavering away on PC RPG Dragon Age and is developing an MMOG that we can't wait to see fully unveiled.

Rami

I've still yet to see anything that proves the episodic/micro transactions format to me.

Episode 1 wasn't worth it at all, I completely fail to see what people claim is so amazing about it, it's pretty much two extra levels for a price that is, comparatively, ridiculous. (Ep2 however seems well worth it with Portal and TM2)

And with Oblivion, love the game, yet not interested in a single one of the extras. But I am looking forward to the proper expansion pack.


When I buy a game I just want, you know, the whole game, so I can play as much or as little as I'd like.

I liked Hit the Road, I'd probably like the new one but I'm just not interested in paying for ~2 hours of playtime every 3 months or whenever they get it out.

I think perhaps adventure games could be the worst candidates for episodic content, depending on how you look at it. When a game is so heavily dependant on the plot, why do you want to be forced to take a break from it every 3-5 months? If I'm enjoying a plot I'd like to be sucked in until it's finished, a 3 month gap kind of ruins the pace of it.


[spoiler:7307cb8369]Also I think NWN is terrible[/spoiler:7307cb8369]

Eight Rooks

Kiwistrike wrote:

Huh?

I basically just said that episodic content is good, in very specific cases. Basically, its here and it has its uses, and thats good, but its not going to be some sort of "new standard," nor should it be.

You control the games industry, do you?

I mean, hey, I greatly dislike what I've seen of episodic content so far - Episode 1 was a lot of fun, but delayed; Episode 2 might as well be Half-Life 3 the time it's taking, SiN is a pointless franchise IMO (tits! Dystopia!) and bargain basement point-and-click adventures don't interest me. I know it's early days but these are some annoying teething troubles. Still, Valve seem fairly insistent it's the way forward, various indie developers appear to like its advantages and Bioware seem to be cautiously agreeing.

Zetetic Elench

Cokomon wrote:

Besides, didn't Bioware already say something about downloadable planets for Mass Effect?

IGN wrote:

In another interesting tack, Mass Effect is the first game in a trilogy, which, BioWare says, will cover the lifespan of the Xbox 360's five-plus year cycle. When you finish the first game, BioWare plans to upload content in between games in an episodic fashion, filling in the story between games. Thus, when the second big title arrives, fans who stick with the downloads will know exactly what's going on.

The Mass Effect FAQ answers a lot of questions.

Drez

Kiwistrike wrote:

Huh?

I basically just said that episodic content is good, in very specific cases. Basically, its here and it has its uses, and thats good, but its not going to be some sort of "new standard," nor should it be.

Well, there are your comments about episodic content. But mostly I was referring to this:

Kiwistrike wrote:

ew.

I cant remember the last good game bioware made, anyway.

Cilla Black

I really don't like episodic content, despite how fantastical HL2 Ep 1 was, but it doesn't really matter here. The chances of Mass Effect leaving the 360 are, at this point, pretty well nil so I'll never get to play it, and nothing else looks terribly interesting.

Azio

What the fuck, now BioWare? I was hoping the Episodic Gaming fad died out with all the rest of the criminally retarded ideas of 2006. The only thing stupider than Gabe Newell's promise of a new Half-Life episode every 6 months was the slobbering nitwits who actually believed that Valve, a company with a consistent track record of lengthy delays and years-missed release targets, would deliver.

Gorilla Salad

Azio wrote:

What the fuck, now BioWare? I was hoping the Episodic Gaming fad died out with all the rest of the criminally retarded ideas of 2006.

It's more so we don't all go insane waiting for Mass Effect and can get a fill before we just decide not to buy it at all.

Whiniest Man On Earth

See, the thing about episodic gaming is that the amount of content that you get for your dollar never quite matches up with retail game standards. If this were no longer the case, I'd feel much better about purchasing some.

Accualt

The stuff will never go on sale, either. There isn't enough incentive to put it on sale because it isn't taking up valuable retail space that needs to be filled with new product.

BaronVonSnakPak

i really dislike the idea of episodic content.

the only time i think i would actually buy into it is like what theyre doing with mass effect, with the episodes filling in little things between the actual title releases.

i loved half-life 2, beat it, eagerly awaited for the next half-life, heard it was going to be episodic, and lost complete interest. pretty much for the exact reason thats been stated a couple times here, i dont want to pay $20 for 2 hours of gameplay every few months. give me a $50 game, not an $80 game in pieces.

Beck

I could see Episodic content being really helpful to smaller development teams, but why is Bioware doing it?

I guess it could be interesting. I'd like to see how it effects their style of storytelling, and maybe not even just Bioware's, but the entire RPG genre's, which I feel have become stagnant over the years. Maybe this will mean side quests will be fleshed out more and feel more meaningful, better plot twists, and a more cinematic experience.

Heh, I came into this thread thinking "Ugh, another way to get more cash from me", but now I feel pretty good about the whole thing. It has a lot of potential.

Stregone

I think episodic content is a good idea when it is above and beyond and already complete game. Devs need practice at seeing what works and what doesn't for that sort of thing so the more people trying to make it work the better IMO.

Derrick

I really just see episodic content as a money grab.

We're already seeing content actually printed on game discs that you have to pay to recieve, and you know it's only going to get worse if/when this becomes mainstream.

I think it's the publishers wanting to charge more than $50 for a game but not being able to, so now there's an effort to put out small chunks for more money than the whole product would be on the shelf.

Until the level of episodic content Matches or Exceeds retail content, I'm not buying it.

Rook

I actually really like episodic content just because the games come in a size I can actually finish in a week. Now currently the time between them is far far far too long, but I imagine if developers get used to it they can churn out a new episode every six months or so.

Docken

To be honest, considering the spiralling costs of game development these days, I can't really see how AAA titles will not have episodic content.

These developers have sunk a massive chunk of change and time into these games and I think when you look at the numbers it just makes a whole lot of sense to leverage existing technology for as long as possible as cheaply as possible to get the maximum rate of return. Episodic content does this nicely, as it requires minimum development time (engine/tools/knowledge in place) and already has a targetted demographic (existing owners) with a strong reason to purchase the product.

ToadTheMushroom

In Mass Effect I can see it being new planets/systems to download.

With a few sidequests and a few new monsters/items etc.

That kind of stuff would be perfect.

Predator

Undead Scottsman wrote:

I thought the Sam and Max games were proof of the episodic concept.

Its pretty much the only proof.
HL2 Episode 2 is coming out a year and a half after Episode 1.
SiN Episode 2 hasnt even been really talked about all that much.

tulkas

Kiwistrike wrote:

Jade empire blew.

And as for KotOR, well, bioware needs to realize that dungeons and dragons "gameplay" hasnt worked, ever.

Seriously come up with something that isnt absolutely asinine in every way, and maybe plays to the strengths of a machine which allows interactivity. Instead of, you know, desperately trying to copy a pen-and-paper scheme.

Why?

Bioware has successfully created a combat system that is not only deep, but also intuitive. The gameplay can be as deep and complicated as you want it to be- however you decide to play, you'll find a really engrossing (and not to mention fun) gameplay experience. Are you bitter because you couldn't get past the first dungeon in BG: SoA or something, dude?

Dareth Ram

Rook wrote:

I actually really like episodic content just because the games come in a size I can actually finish in a week. Now currently the time between them is far far far too long, but I imagine if developers get used to it they can churn out a new episode every six months or so.

That's appealing to me. With a full time job, I have a hard time finding time for games anymore. Something episodic I can play in my lunch break and spare time, and actually make progress.

ToadTheMushroom

I didn't play KoToR for the combat. Or the levelling. Or the character design, which was an added bonus.

I played it for the fucking fantastic story.

tulkas

ToadTheMushroom wrote:

I didn't play KoToR for the combat. Or the levelling. Or the character design, which was an added bonus.

I played it for the fucking fantastic story.

The endings of both KotOR and KotOR2 notwithstanding